28 réponses à ce sujet

[Azwraith]

Hi, I'm new to this game but not new to rpgs. This time I wanted to be an archer since I always go for the typical melee rogue with other rpgs (mostly mmorpgs) and I was wondering if any good sir/lady with give me some tips on how to build my character or so called "Warden." I've been searching google and immediately saw this forum and some other forums and guides as well. As you may have observed I have joined earlier than this post, I was busy with some things in life which hindered me from posting.

Well, anyway back to the point, yes, I would greatly appreciate tips on stat, skill, spells, armor, and weapon. I have not decided to play until I learn the basics of the game since I've watched gamespot's review on youtube that there are actually two ways to play this game which are the traditional bash and the pause and assign tactics.

Thank you for your help.

[cJohnOne]

For a new player you'll probably find archery to be underpowered so I would probably do a melee charater first. I like warriors myself, but if you want to jump into archery that could be fun. Just start one up it will probably work. Some like Arrow of Slaying, Some like Scattering Shot, I'd choose one or the other. If you choose to pick locks than you don't have to bring along another lock picker. If you like flanking you could get Combat Movement but I haven't used that in a while. One stealth is sometimes useful. That's all I can think of right now.

[Azwraith]

Alright I'll probably start playing in a few minutes. If I don't like being an archer then I'll probably restart with a new character. Thanks for your help cJohnOne.

[Zombie Chow]

Hi Azwraith, I just completed a Rogue Archer in Awakening (in case you bought the Ultimate Edition, like many new DA:O players now). Like you, when I started I googled a lot, but found the information too overwhelming.

IMHO, it comes down to is this. In Dragon Age: ORIGINS, the Archer is quite underpowered until late in the game. In the expansion Dragon Age: AWAKENING, the Archer becomes a god-tier class with only a few new Talents.

My suggestion for you (while avoiding spoilers) is to play Origins with whatever works best for you.  If you take character to Awakening, you can easily transition into a completely effective Archer with some new Talents.

If you wish to plan in advance, the Awakening Archer focuses on a few things.  1st, have a high Dex (50 to 70), which you'll have just from being a Rogue.  2nd, take the Bard specialty, particularly for Song of Courage.

So, if you wish to experience the Archer and you have Awakening, don't worry about it now!  You have a chance later in the expansion, plus if you do play a melee-style in Origins, you can experience the full gamut.

Modifié par Zombie Chow, 14 février 2011 - 02:42 .

[Azwraith]

Thank you Zombie Chow! Yes, I have bought the Ultimate Edition. Alright, I just made it to Lothering and have confirmed thru first hand experience that the rogue archer is underpowered. Greatly appreciate your help Zombie Chow.

[Grace1957]

I love my rogue archer.In the beginning you need some melee skills.You don't get any really good archery skills for awhile.You'll need dex and cunning and a little strength if you want to use crossbows.I like to make my rogue a ranger to get the extra party member.Keep track of who has what skills so you don't have everybody with a little of everything.I always have my warriors have one level of poison so they can coat their weapons.Hope this helps.

[Collision236]

My first play through of Dragon Age: Origins was as a Dalish Rogue Archer. Honestly I do not know if it was underpowered but I will tell you I enjoyed it a lot. I felt it added more to the game and gave me a harder challenged.
Origin:
Dalish Elf Rogue

Skills:
Max out Combat Training
Max out Coercion
Add some points to Survival
Add some points to Herbalism

class Specific Talent:
Choose Dirty Fighting and Combat Movement in the Dirty Fighting Tree
Max out Below the Belt Tree

Weapon Talents:
Max out all Archer Trees

Specializations:
Ranger: Max out Ranger Tree
Bard: Try to Max out as much as you can

Attributes: 
Dexterity: Very Important, try to have very high while be nice to your other stats. But this is the most important stat.
Cunning: Have a decent amount.
Constitution: Have at a decent level that you feel comfortable with. 
Willpower: Have a decent level.
Strength: Have at a level according to which armor you want. Look at Dragon Age Wiki to see what kind of armor you want and the requirements. 


I used the Wynne/Morrigan as my healer and potion making. I used Leliana/Zevran as my lock pickers. I used Allistair/Sten/Ogren as tanks. I also made sure to have a companion pet(wolf/bear/spider) to aid in attacking and keeping Darkspawn off me while i attacked. Plus there are special arrows you can shoot (Ice/fire/etc). So I hope you reconsider, and try the Archer again. Also this is all strictly Drago Age: Origins as I have not played Awakening or any of the other dlc. 

Modifié par Collision236, 14 février 2011 - 06:27 .

[asaiasai]

here is a thread i participated in a awhile ago, this is in no way to suggest that my build is the best, just one i found very powerful, almost OP. I literally could pop out of stealth with an arrow of slaying and drop most targets with one shot bosses excluded.

Anyway here is the link i hope ity helps, screens and descriptions included.

http://social.biowar...7/index/2264176

Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 14 février 2011 - 06:32 .

[dlow-]

I like Rogues

[Dawnhorn]

You can always mix it up. Awakening has books that will redo your stats. Dex and cunning will basically carry you through Rogue with any build. A bit of strength will assist as well just to 30 or so.



There aren't any 'killshot' cut-scenes with archery, so you do lose a bit of the flair that you would normally achieve during melee (decapitations, special kills, etc).



Rogue was awesome on my Dwarf Commoner. Backstabbing is just too fun to go full archery (at least in my opinion). Mage is extremely fun as is a solid warrior tank.

[Azwraith]

Thank you for your help guys! I just took a break after I finished Lothering. I might try a melee rogue since that really suites my playstyle. I just wanted to break out of the habit and try something else for a change.

[Deathwurm]

Don't forget to register your Game, Azwraith. You'll know it's done correctly when the little Shield shows under your avatar pic
As for your question, I played a Dual-Wield Fighter but upped the Archery and Dex on one NPC...I often took direct control of that NPC and found Scatter Shot to be very useful.

Modifié par Deathwurm, 14 février 2011 - 10:15 .

[Grace1957]

Don't neglect your archery skills though as certain baddies are better fought from afar.Lots of spells and arrows thrown in their direction.I usually save my ice arrows and bolts for a baddie at the end of the game.Do Wardens Keep for a storage chest.

[Sordel]

I'm new to the game as well, but I think that the rogue archer route is a really good build for the Warden. I play it as a scout, hot keying stealth and the hold so that my party doesn't do anything I don't want it to. I've also taken Bard as my first specialisation, going for Lethality as soon as possible and ramping up Cunning. The main advantage is being able to avoid Leliana; I'm stuck with her and Wynne on my Blood Mage, and am heartily sick of them both!



The key thing to remember about archer is that you're there for planning and leadership: a trap is also dps, cutting down the number of enemies by pulling with Pinnng Shot is mitigation ... as is Corner pulling for ranged.

[swk3000]

A high Dexterity and Song of Courage are actually mutually exclusive. Song of Courage requires a very high Cunning score to get solid benefits from it, and every point in Dexterity is a point not in Cunning. To me, a Bard requires a Cunning build.



To me, Rogues = Light Armor. I've never put my Rogue in anything else. With that being said, any race can get the 20 Strength needed to equip any Light Armor without ever putting a single point into Strength. You'll need to do the Broken Circle quest to pull it off, but that's best done early, anyway, so that's not an issue.



If you have Return to Ostagar, I highly recommend the Repeater Gloves for your hand slot. The +1 Armor Penetration is nice, but the real prize is the Rapid Aim. Due to a bug, the Rapid Aim property of the Repeater Gloves reduces Aim speed by 3 seconds instead of 0.3 seconds. The Archer Sustain 'Aim' gives multiple boosts, but increases Aim speed by 1.5 seconds. With the Repeater Gloves, you can have Aim active, and not only will you negate the firing speed penalty, but you'll actually fire faster than before.

[termokanden]

swk3000 wrote...

A high Dexterity and Song of Courage are actually mutually exclusive. Song of Courage requires a very high Cunning score to get solid benefits from it, and every point in Dexterity is a point not in Cunning. To me, a Bard requires a Cunning build.

Debatable. You get the largest benefit just by having it active. But again it depends on what you're after.

With a cunning of 10, you get

+3 attack
+2 damage
+3% crit

For the whole party that is. For my dex-based rogue (22 cunning without gear for stealth) in Origins this became (with gear)

+5 attack
+3 damage
+5% crit

For damage dealing, this is better than Dueling without a doubt. Even if it only gave a bonus for yourself this would be true.

But it's possible that Ranger would give you a larger damage boost. Depends a lot on your party setup I guess. Song of Courage can be powerful in a melee heavy party.

Modifié par termokanden, 19 février 2011 - 12:45 .

[Last Darkness]

termokanden wrote...

swk3000 wrote...

A high Dexterity and Song of Courage are actually mutually exclusive. Song of Courage requires a very high Cunning score to get solid benefits from it, and every point in Dexterity is a point not in Cunning. To me, a Bard requires a Cunning build.

Debatable. You get the largest benefit just by having it active. But again it depends on what you're after.

With a cunning of 10, you get

+3 attack
+2 damage
+3% crit

For the whole party that is. For my dex-based rogue (22 cunning without gear for stealth) in Origins this became (with gear)

+5 attack
+3 damage
+5% crit

For damage dealing, this is better than Dueling without a doubt. Even if it only gave a bonus for yourself this would be true.

But it's possible that Ranger would give you a larger damage boost. Depends a lot on your party setup I guess. Song of Courage can be powerful in a melee heavy party.

I hope you are useing the correct calculations for your Cun score since its -10 Cun to start with.

But with a Cun build the general sweet spot is 60 Cunning.
60 Cun Song of Courage
+8 Attack
+4.5 Damage
+8% Crit

So its not that much differance, unless your running 2-3 Bards Stacking that on top of other possible buff effects.

This is usualy best used for the Cunning Assassin/Bard combo. Where the Cun adds more damage.
60 Cun Tainted Blade
+15 Damage
60 Cun Exploit Weakness
+8.65 Damage on Backstab (Which is then Multiplied by other factors)

Cun build also has other subtle effects. A 70+ Cun generaly negates the need to spend points on pick locks or coercion, freeing points to be used in other areas.

Viewing this a Dex based Archer is fine, its just not optimal for all you min max people out there. With a party who can take maximum effect of these bonuses its just fine at default levels as well. Though I am in the Ranger faction who belive that it does more damage and is a extra distraction. ( And other uses for a Blood Mage...)

One side note though for Cunning Bard as this is always overlooked. Captivating Song becomes Devastingly effctive for a high Cun Bard, permanetly stunning entire groups of enemies. This is usualy best used to go in drop Captivating Song and then Force Field the Bard to create a invicible bard.

I vote for Bard/Ranger if you want the most bang for your buck in a Dex Archery build.

[swk3000]

termokanden wrote...

swk3000 wrote...

A high Dexterity and Song of Courage are actually mutually exclusive. Song of Courage requires a very high Cunning score to get solid benefits from it, and every point in Dexterity is a point not in Cunning. To me, a Bard requires a Cunning build.

Debatable. You get the largest benefit just by having it active. But again it depends on what you're after.

With a cunning of 10, you get

+3 attack
+2 damage
+3% crit
For the whole party that is. For my dex-based rogue (22 cunning without gear for stealth) in Origins this became (with gear)

+5 attack
+3 damage
+5% crit

For damage dealing, this is better than Dueling without a doubt. Even if it only gave a bonus for yourself this would be true.

But it's possible that Ranger would give you a larger damage boost. Depends a lot on your party setup I guess. Song of Courage can be powerful in a melee heavy party.

Your first calculations are correct. Your second ones, however, seem off to me. When I crunch the numbers, I get:

+ 4.2 Attack
+2.6 Damage
+4.2 Crit Chance

I realize you're rounding up, but Dragon Age seems to work in decimals very well, at least as far as Crit Chance and Damage are concerned.

Also, I'm not happy with such minor numbers. They're a nice boost, sure, but if I'm going to have the skill, why would I not attempt to use it to full effect?

Also, from a damage standpoint, you're right: Song of Courage is better than Dueling for damage. However, there's a saying: you have to walk before you can run. What good is the extra damage if you can't hit? I'd actually suggest having both Song of Courage and Dueling active, for a decent damage boost and a sizable Attack boost. That's me, though. If you disagree, that's fine; we'll just agree to disagree.

[Last Darkness]

swk3000 wrote...

termokanden wrote...

swk3000 wrote...

A high Dexterity and Song of Courage are actually mutually exclusive. Song of Courage requires a very high Cunning score to get solid benefits from it, and every point in Dexterity is a point not in Cunning. To me, a Bard requires a Cunning build.

Debatable. You get the largest benefit just by having it active. But again it depends on what you're after.

With a cunning of 10, you get

+3 attack
+2 damage
+3% crit
For the whole party that is. For my dex-based rogue (22 cunning without gear for stealth) in Origins this became (with gear)

+5 attack
+3 damage
+5% crit

For damage dealing, this is better than Dueling without a doubt. Even if it only gave a bonus for yourself this would be true.

But it's possible that Ranger would give you a larger damage boost. Depends a lot on your party setup I guess. Song of Courage can be powerful in a melee heavy party.

Your first calculations are correct. Your second ones, however, seem off to me. When I crunch the numbers, I get:

+ 4.2 Attack
+2.6 Damage
+4.2 Crit Chance

I realize you're rounding up, but Dragon Age seems to work in decimals very well, at least as far as Crit Chance and Damage are concerned.

Also, I'm not happy with such minor numbers. They're a nice boost, sure, but if I'm going to have the skill, why would I not attempt to use it to full effect?

Also, from a damage standpoint, you're right: Song of Courage is better than Dueling for damage. However, there's a saying: you have to walk before you can run. What good is the extra damage if you can't hit? I'd actually suggest having both Song of Courage and Dueling active, for a decent damage boost and a sizable Attack boost. That's me, though. If you disagree, that's fine; we'll just agree to disagree.

Most people dont know how awesome Bard/Duelest is, most people never think of it either.  Its my current Leliana builds for all the games I play anymore.

[termokanden]

Well if the numbers on the wiki are correct then yes I used the right calculations (basically you get 1 attack and crit per 10 cunning and 1 damage per 20 cunning). I really do have more than 30 cunning with gear if I have 22 base cunning. I rounded down in fact because I wasn't sure how Dragon Age deals with that.

Sure this is a "small" bonus, but it's still the best you can get for damage (and I can see you agree). That's why I use it. The thing is that with a high dex build you're not going to have any trouble hitting your target (at least I never did). So there I think Duelist is completely overkill. I actually think that one makes more sense if you have a cunning build instead and have a much lower attack score. So in that case, bard/duelist is good, as Darkness suggested.

Modifié par termokanden, 20 février 2011 - 08:43 .

[Last Darkness]

termokanden wrote...

Well if the numbers on the wiki are correct then yes I used the right calculations (basically you get 1 attack and crit per 10 cunning and 1 damage per 20 cunning). I really do have more than 30 cunning with gear if I have 22 base cunning. I rounded down in fact because I wasn't sure how Dragon Age deals with that.

Sure this is a "small" bonus, but it's still the best you can get for damage (and I can see you agree). That's why I use it. The thing is that with a high dex build you're not going to have any trouble hitting your target (at least I never did). So there I think Duelist is completely overkill. I actually think that one makes more sense if you have a cunning build instead and have a much lower attack score. So in that case, bard/duelist is good, as Darkness suggested.

In Origins at least, in Awakening Dex is far superior due to accuracy. But a Warrior Archer would still be better then a Rogue simply because the warriors get Spirit Warrior which translates all their damage to Spirit Damage which can be Capped @+50% and with Vulnerability and Affliction Hexs this can easily be boosted to another +100% damage. Not to mention whne in spirit form they get +50% Dodge and +45% Spell Resistance. 

[termokanden]

Yes Awakening changes the balance of everything.

I had Duelist in Awakening by the way, but only for the passive buff. Didn't even bother to use Dueling. Nothing could hit me anyway, and I didn't miss. Why would I want Dueling then?

Modifié par termokanden, 20 février 2011 - 02:48 .

[Last Darkness]

termokanden wrote...

Yes Awakening changes the balance of everything.

I had Duelist in Awakening by the way, but only for the passive buff. Didn't even bother to use Dueling. Nothing could hit me anyway, and I didn't miss. Why would I want Dueling then?

I liked the Legion Scout talent that let you take damage off your stamina first.

[termokanden]

Definitely. The whole specialization is brilliant. I always use that one for rogues in Awakening.

[mcsupersport]

Right now I am running a rogue ranger/bard through Origins and have Leli specd the same and am having a blast. It may not be the best of the best but with Alister Sword and board Wynn bloodmage/healer doing mostly ice and heals a couple of great bears and two archers nothing seems to last long. The only knock I have with ranger is the animals disappear everytime you enter a doorway/map change, which is very annoying because your cool down starts when you start again, even if you just entered a hut, you lose your animals.



I am not trying to create uber builds but fun ones to play and so far this has succeeded.