256 réponses à ce sujet

[errant_knight]

Romance includes a lot of things. Romeo and Juliet was a romance. So was Avatar. Do most men find Romeo and Juliet to be a crappy play, or Avatar a bad movie? Probably not. Would they read a harlequin romance? Also probably not--but neither would I. Because they're bad. When a romance is good, meaning that it has a plot, interesting action, character development, and is generally a quality piece of work, it's something everyone can enjoy.

[yoshibb]

You know, I often wondered if it was worth it to market the romance subplots more. I mean I certainly had no clue what was going on my first Bioware game, but I loved it when I figured it out. No other video game company does this. The only thing that comes close is when the feature is thrown in there with little regard to the characters. Like in Fable, you get to romance random NPCs. But it's boring because those characters are all mindless husks and love you for doing jigs and showing off your muscles.



There's so much depth and story put into these romances, but it feels like hidden content that only Bioware fans would know about. If they do market the romance they usually choose the sexiest female and show her without any personality so it's just like every other dating sim.



But Bioware's games aren't a dating sim, they are emotional, roleplaying epics. On the other hand, I'm kind of afraid that marketing the romance will just stereotype the games into that dating sim category. What makes these romances so special is that there is a lot more conflict going on then just romance and a lot more at stake then just let's get married and live happily ever after.



I don't know, it just seems like such a big interest to me and I wouldn't know about it if I wasn't a Bioware fan.

[RosaAquafire]

People who talk about "men care less than women" ...

I'm sorry, but no F!Cousland Alistair's Queen Princess could ever be as crazy as Talimancers (Not that I have a problem with either, to be honest.)

[snackrat]

Personally I'm really interested in seeing how DA2 is going to be handling this rival romance "Augh I hate you but I love you" feature!

[errant_knight]

Oh, I think it's good that they underplay it. I can't imagine anything worse than 'push a button, something awesome happens' advertising aimed at empahsizing the relationship aspects of the game. Also, it should be just one part of the over all story and characterizations. It would be bad if people expected something as shallow and single minded as a dating sim. And it's nice to be surprised as I was when I played DA:O. I had no idea that there were romances in the game, so that was a lot of fun.

[Maria Caliban]

David Gaider wrote...

Saibh wrote...
Different teams. Why specifically, is only theories.

Different teams also means different interests. There's very few things we feel compelled we have to put into a game-- it requires someone on the team to be actively interested in including it. I know, on the forums, it seems like everyone thinks a developer needs a solid reason not to put something in a game... were content not expensive, that would be true. But it isn't, and while we would never expect fans to care about that, we certainly have to. So therefore you're only going to see things that individuals on that team are specifically interested in doign... and you're not going to see a lot of other things we'd like to include but just couldn't. We don't get our way all the time, either.

The DA team is x239 better than the ME team.

[HolyJellyfish]

HTTP 404 wrote...

To me its bizarre to have crushes on fictional characters. But whatever floats their boat as long as they dont splash water my way, Im okay with it.

Its no different than having a crush on a celebrity. Their personas can be equally fictional. As well as body makeuo, outfits, plastic surgery, and photo editting

[Saibh]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The DA team is x239 better than the ME team.

I don't think you love them enough. That's not enough multiplication.

[Kath]

I love the romances in Bioware games (DA in particular) simply because it adds another layer of depth to the story and to the characters. As a person who loves a good story, I can't resist doing the romances and being able to find out more about the characters within the game I'm playing. It doesn't come from some creepy need to literally romance a fictional character. Also, engaging in the romances and observing Bioware's characterizations has helped becoming a better storyteller myself. (I am in college right now working towards becoming a story board artist and concept artist, and Bioware's work is a constant inspiration.)

[LPPrince]

Guys, lets not have a "These devs are better than these devs" thing going on.

[Fidget6]

I think because romance is something that everyone can relate to. True, not everyone can relate to being in a relationship, but just about everyone can relate to that desire, or that connection. Even most asexuals still want some sort of relationship, even if they have no interest in sex. I think it really helps us as players connect to and care about the characters, and really adds a new layer onto them. I think that's also what Bioware is trying to do this time around with family members, to have something else a player can relate to on that level. (everyone has a family after all.)

[SilentK]

I have played a couple of Wardens, one way of making all of them special and individual is for them to follow a different LI. Warden the 4:th still has new things in store simply because I haven't seen how being with one specific LI colors the rest of the game. It also makes it easier for me to make a new char, how would this one react to that situation. One of the reasons for why I love bioware =)

[catabuca]

Maria Caliban wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Saibh wrote...
Different teams. Why specifically, is only theories.

Different teams also means different interests. There's very few things we feel compelled we have to put into a game-- it requires someone on the team to be actively interested in including it. I know, on the forums, it seems like everyone thinks a developer needs a solid reason not to put something in a game... were content not expensive, that would be true. But it isn't, and while we would never expect fans to care about that, we certainly have to. So therefore you're only going to see things that individuals on that team are specifically interested in doign... and you're not going to see a lot of other things we'd like to include but just couldn't. We don't get our way all the time, either.

The DA team is x239 better than the ME team.

This

[ReallyRue]

By this point, romances are one of the few things we don't know about yet without revealing story spoilers.



Personally, I like romances because it's all part of the story and character interaction. You usually find out more about a character's personality and history from romancing them than you do otherwise. Romanceable characters also tend to be more important (like Alistair and Morrigan), so if your favourite character is an LI, it might mean they are more important to the plot. Romance can also make you connect with the story more, like doing the dark ritual/ultimate sacrifice/Landsmeet when romancing Alistair. And like SilentK said, it makes for more replay value.

And Hawke remaining single for ten years would be beyond belief for me.

[hawat333]

Anarya wrote...

Michael Jackson tells me to tell you that it's human nature.

In real life. But it's a video game.
I don't get it either.

[catabuca]

I enjoy romances and sexytimes in BW games for the same reasons others have stated throughout the thread.

First and foremost is the story: I prefer games that have a great story to hook me in; I want a reason why I'm shooting things, I want to know the context for my actions, I want to know the consequences for the actions I'm doing. BW is great at providing this, and part of roleplaying, for me, is being able to build up a sense of my character and his or her interactions with the world around them. That means how they deal with idiots, how they deal with superiors, how they view the political and cultural aspects of the game world, how they deal with friends and rivals, and whether they have more personal relationships. Because I replay BW games over and over, creating new characters, new classes, new motivations and backstories, I play through different romances to imagine how that would change my character's story.

All of my wardens have been in relationships with one character or another, but then I've only finished DAO 3 times, and have perhaps 3 other games all at various stages of completion. In Mass Effect, I've played through many, many more times (of both, but primarily ME1), and I have to say, the two Shepards I consider my 'canon' characters have remained single throughout both games. This is because a) they physically cannot be with the person they most desire due to the lack of m/m functionality built into the game; and to square that in terms of roleplaying those Shepards have their own rather angsty reasons for why we don't see them in a relationship with Lt. Alenko (1 being that he won't allow himself to get into that relationship, the other being that there is a relationship, but it's kept away from the mission and the eyes of others on board the Normandy).

Modifié par catabuca, 14 février 2011 - 10:55 .

[FieryDove]

scyphozoa wrote...

Collider wrote...

I think the more important thing is whether the general player base cares about romances.

Clearly they do. I feel very much in the minority as someone who loves Bioware games but is apathetic to romances. Its very foreign to me, I feel like the popularity of romances has only become so prevalent since DAO and ME2. My first Bioware game was KOTOR and my second was Jade Empire. Those games had romances and those romances had fans, but there was NOTHING like the romantic infatuation that exists today.

All the Carth/Bastila threads and fans past and present disagree with you. Sorry.

Edit:

My gripe is a lot of times on this very forum Romance = sex. It just annoys me. Ack I posted in a romance thread. my bad.

Modifié par FieryDove, 14 février 2011 - 11:01 .

[Maria13]

Happy Valentine's day to all those who support romances.... And even those who don't.

[Russalka]

This sums up my feelings for this date and romance subject.

Modifié par Russalka, 14 février 2011 - 11:04 .

[Hanabii]

I think most romances have been crapshoots. Don't kill me yet! Let me explain.

In Mass Effect 1 the Romances didn't feel 'as rushed'. But they felt hasty. I mean come on, from 'We're a squad and being professional' to 'sex in the commander's room'. Mass Effect 2 only served to add to my frustrations on that. Garrus for instance felt more like a 'Friend with Benefits.' and I felt guilty for the Jacob Romance because it felt like I was shooting his moral compass to craps for a sex fling. No inbetween, no first kiss. It was sort of like "Flirt, Flirt, Flirt, Bed."

In Dragon Age it felt pretty iffy too, but a lot better then Mass Effect, the Alistair Romance was well done if all but rushed because of the fact it only showed and developed in camp and no where else save the final scenes of the game.

What I liked was the Vid Game romances were you spent the entire game enjoying the plot of the game and trying, in some cases to get the girl to recognize her feelings for your character with the romances culmination and all that work being a tender kiss at the end when the two finally come to terms with the fact that they do love each other.

Final Fantasy 9s Relationship between Dagger and Zidane was probably the best romance I had seen. The Dynamic was fun and complex, starting out with kidnapping, building to friendship and eventually love as they saved each others lives again and again. Along with Zidane's continual flirts and shown reliability. It also used said romance to build up the Character of Steiner in a few of his attempts to sabotage the romance without hurting Dagger which actually ended up only pushing it farther along and frustrating the poor knight.

What I'm saying is that no romance that Bioware has made has ever come close to dynamic so far and I hope that Dragon Age 2 has something more in the way of actual depth of feeling in the romance then previous games.

Modifié par Hanabii, 14 février 2011 - 02:27 .

[SilentK]

Well yes, a kiss or some sort of gesture of intimacy during the flirt-part would make it feel better =) I agree wholeheartedly there. It was the same thing for me, I have a easier time of connecting during the less rushed and more slow buildup of ME than ME2. I think that the romances in DA worked well for me and I'm really curious what will come of DA2 when we have got 10 years to play with.

[Rob Sabbaggio]

Personally, the romances in Bioware RPGs are a massive part of why they appeal to me so much.



Relationships and romances are a massive part of life. You dont find many songs, movies, books that dont have some reference to them. Yet in games, too often you are asked to do things (beat bad guy, save world etc) but you dont have much interest in why. Well, I know it sounds a little childish, but "what about me?" For example, I loved Oblivion, but I just got tired of wandering around doing quests that had little impact on people or how they reacted to you. Its hard to explain, but I felt like I was not part of the world, a guest but not actually invested in it. Save world, complete quests thats it.



The romances in Bioware RPG's, or others like Alpha Protocol, are one way of making me feel like I am actually a part of the world.



I'm not talking about implementing Sims-style gameplay. Likewise, I didnt like the relationship angle in the Fable games, because they were so shallow and meaningless. Oooh well, I hugged someone and they loved me, wow, how convincing.! Just make me feel part of the world, more familiar and affectionate towards the characters in them, invested more in saving them. Someone in the game that is interested in you, not whether you can get 12 drake scales for them.



I only wish more games had them, or similar mechanics.

[Wynne]

pianomaestra wrote...

The forum has, if anyone hasn't noticed yet, quite a few romance threads lately. Before anyone becomes angry, let me stress that this is not a thread meant to denounce anyone interested in romance, or to complain about the fact that so many people are interested in romance. Because that would be, well, kinda sorta really hypocritical of me (yes, I admit I am a  fan too).

I am honestly just curious--what makes the thought of romance in DA2 compelling for you? Is it the characters, the thought of romance in general?

Personally I loved the romances in DAO because it allowed for you to interact with the game world in a unique way. It was also part of what attracted me to the game (though the combat hooked me).  I'm hoping it will be the same for DA2.

Although I believe that a person can be happy alone, particularly in the young and middle years of life, I think no one should go without the experience of being truly in love.

We have a tendency as a species to go to extremes--either refusing to believe love exists or beliving that it's all there is to life. The truth is in between.

Non-romantic love is absolutely 100% essential for a human being to thrive, at all stages of life. But romantic love eventually becomes a little more important. Attachment begins in childhood with the parents, and that need doesn't go away with adulthood; the nature of it simply changes. Ironically, or perhaps paradoxically, having another person as a secure base increases a person's ability to be independent (see the article "Get Attached" in Scientific American Mind magazine.) It also brings greater emotional and even physical endurance. A person who has once had or currently has a satisfying relationship by their golden years is much more likely to feel content with the life they've had intead of bitter and regretful. It's a part of the human experience.

As an aside, another ironic thing about romantic love is that a tendency to have fights is better--if you never quarrel, it's likely that one or both partners is either not invested or avoids conflicts because they know it won't go anywhere good. It's being able to problem-solve and compromise that makes a relationship work. I know a couple who were together for 6 years, only to realize that they had no idea how to solve problems together.

Romantic love, like the mental and emotional processes of human beings in general, fascinates me. Since it's fairly important if not vital to adult life, personal growth, satisfaction, and independence, it's only natural that it would interest many. Knowing what makes a good relationship tick helps a person to have realistic expectations. Not everyone is fanatical enough about the subject (or nerdy enough, or financially secure enough) to want to study relationships at a university, though. Books can be dry and unclear at times. So many turn to fiction, wherein the examples are less theoretical/academic, and more accessible to the layman. The pictures of romance that a person has collected, both from fiction and from real-life experience, and their interpretation of what they've seen, subconsciously plays out in their relationships.

I don't think I have to explain escapism for this crowd... but for those who already have a partner and feel they know what makes a good relationship tick, it can be interesting to explore less functional relationships, or to relive the experience of falling in love through another set of eyes. So those would be the reasons I see for the avid interest in romances.

Those who have no interest whatsoever have probably had fairly bad experiences with romantic love, either between their parents or in their own life, and are thus either fed up with romance or frightenened of the prospect of attempting to form a romantic bond. Avoidant attachment (where the primary caregiver was constantly tense, nervous, and/or overly stimulating in their approach to infant care) generally leads to a similar form of attachment in adulthood, where the individual shuns any permanent ties and feels uncomfortable with a clingy partner (yet, often seeks that form of partner out because it's the type of person they first bonded with in infancy.) Disillusionment and being jaded, of course, make romances in games unappealing. But that state doesn't have to last forever.

Still, those are the exceptions. There's a reason movies tend to have an obligatory romance plotline (I wish there were less of those, actually, as a romance done poorly is nothing but nausea-inducing.) It's because the majority of people find romance intriguing, one way or the other.

Modifié par Wynne, 14 février 2011 - 02:58 .

[Elvis_Mazur]

It represents character growth and it's the best way to know that favorite character (Jack of Mass Effect 2, anyone?).