502 réponses à ce sujet

[DTKT]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

DTKT wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

DTKT wrote...

Thats your point of view and your own interpretation of the Cerberus mandate. To me, they arent any better than any mercenaries and should be put down.

Oh, look!.. it's your opinion here! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie]

Is it possible that we have two differing opinions. How is this possible. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

I wonder...

Wait, are you saying I'm an idiot??? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png[/smilie]

No sir.

I'm just saying that we have two different opinion on the same situation and that's mighty fine!

[msantos]

DTKT wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

DTKT wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

DTKT wrote...

Thats your point of view and your own interpretation of the Cerberus mandate. To me, they arent any better than any mercenaries and should be put down.

Oh, look!.. it's your opinion here! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie]

Is it possible that we have two differing opinions. How is this possible. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

I wonder...

Wait, are you saying I'm an idiot??? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png[/smilie]

No sir.

I'm just saying that we have two different opinion on the same situation and that's mighty fine!

Well said.  +1

[wolfsite]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

wolfsite wrote...
I have a few times, in sveral different threads.  Seem to get Ignored for some reason.

No, what generally occurs is exactly what occured in this thread.

You make a claim.

Someone challenges the accuracy of your claim.

Rather than return and validate your claim, you attack the other person, wonder off, and do the same thing in the next thread.

Also you really have a pot calling the kettle black persona going on.

You make being black sound like a bad thing... you racist devil you.

Okay now I am completely insulted.  I have never once attacked anyone aside from the side remark in my last post which is a very common phrase, hell there were a few times I even came back and placed an apology if I ever offended anyone when I felt the stuff I posted could be taken wrong. 

You are completely insulted for being called out on insulting others which you insist you never do except the times that you do and apologize for.

All the "Claims" I have made have been backed up, I played threw the games and have returned showing what I have found in game as well as other people giving supporting information online later on.

Lots of people play through the games. Lots of people get their facts wrong, and assuming things that aren't there. There are still people who sincerely insist the Heretics were brainwashed by Sovereign, that Shepard was forced to work with Cerberus, and that the Council doesn't utilize genocide in its own interests.

Case in point, this thread, your claim that Cerberus brought the Dragon's Teeth to the colony of the dead and killed everyone there. Which, to the counter that nothing in ME1 says that Cerberus brought the teeth there or were in anyway involved except in retrieving an indisclosed 'sample', you went off and simply attacked the arguer, not the argument, and started this. Which, after being pointed out to you, you found insulting.

Only person who seems to attack anyone and then wonder off to another topic is well....  not going to say it since I know what the outcome will be.

No. Go ahead, really. This isn't a church, in which hidden slights and insults are socially acceptable so long as you don't mention the person by name, and merely indicate them by every other means. No one's left wondering, or fooled, by your false politeness.

You are, of course, referring to me.

I'd respect people like you a lot more if they actually came out and said what they meant openly rather than pretend they weren't saying just that. It wouldn't change that I find your wrong as often as not, but if you can't be open with what you think about other people on the internet, where can you be honest at all? Why should someone presume you are honest at all otherwise?

Why should anyone give you any respect if you can't even disagree with someone directly? We are adults: or rather, at least some of this board is adults. You disagree with me about an opinion, and I'm not broken or traumatized or even angry. I'm simply disagreeing with you. If we disagree over a matter about facts, then resolving ignorance is for the best.

To be honest I think you are mistaking me for someone else, all me previous posts when asked for expansion on a topic I have provided it, I have never named called or made any rude references to anyone.  I merely stated the information I found on the subjext and in some cases showed how that information could support both sides of the arguement.

Hell this post you just made more or less shows you don't read my topics but prefer to act as an attack dog.  Also the colony of the dead topic, I just played the mission, cerberus aquired the devices from Exogeni and the path lead to the colony, even in the journal it stated that Cerberus had active cells at the colony and also by the body count a few of the 150 person colony are missing. Finishing the Mission even the game says "Cerberus has a lot to answer for"

I have stated this quite a few times, someone just seems to not bother to read it.

[Zulu_DFA]

DTKT wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

DTKT wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

DTKT wrote...

Thats your point of view and your own interpretation of the Cerberus mandate. To me, they arent any better than any mercenaries and should be put down.

Oh, look!.. it's your opinion here! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie]

Is it possible that we have two differing opinions. How is this possible. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

I wonder...

Wait, are you saying I'm an idiot??? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png[/smilie]

No sir.

I'm just saying that we have two different opinion on the same situation and that's mighty fine!

Ah, opinions. There's been more than 6 million of them on this site alone... I say they are overrated.

[Fixers0]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Cerberus are terrorist who should be removed from the Galaxy as they are doing more bad then good things. Anderson is a War hero, and not a traitor, He did was best, He saw Cerberus as terrorists and a danger to Alliance/Human citizens.

Cerberus are freedom fighters, who should be supported as they are doing what needs to be done to liberate the Galaxy from the decadent and oppressive alien regimes. Anderson is an Alliance poster boy, but in reality a drunkard ready to betray the Alliance over a whim of a woman he is in love with.

No Cerberus are criminals, who should be stopped at all cost as they don't care about other species or the average joe and are just trying to archive their insane ideals, Anderson is a man of intergerity, a man who still holds on onto the basic priniciples and who is trying to make the galaxy a better place for everyone.  

No, Cerberus are idealists, who should prevail against all odds, as they are the only group that dares to take a look into the future, and is capable of giving an adequate purpose for all species in the Galaxy, as well as to every average Joe among our own species. Anderson is a retrograde, who hasn't got even a remotely coherent worldview and is likely to act on impulse just as much as on any kind of outdated preconception.

No, Cerberus are criminals who havve commited severe criminal acts agaist the Alliance and the other Citadel races, They have no morals, and only care to complete their own goals which is to become dominats, their leaders is a coward who hides his real name and doesn't responisbility for the actions his organisation made, for them humans are superior to other races, which is racism, Anderson on other hand follows his principals and has a strict code and he cares for the good of the galaxy.

[Tennessee88]

darknoon5 wrote...

Zulu, don't blame Anderson entirely for Grayson getting free. TIM really badly underestimated him. His only plan to kill him was Kai Leng, and it's clear by the time of the attack, Grayson was powerful enough to have mopped the floor with Kai Leng. Grayson may well have gotten free anyway, and definitely would not have been killed by Kai Leng.

You are assuming that Kai Leng's only option was to go in and engage him in combat. But the fact is that the Turians could have blown Reaper/Grayson away when they first entered. Why is it hard to assume Kai Leng couldn't have handled it. The reason Grayson was so effective is that he attacked enemies who had no idea he was hostile and the reapers had mapped out every single action before launching the assault. 

[Tennessee88]

I must say I asked this question after reading previews, other posts, and the Mass Effect wiki. Now that I have actually completed the chapter where the bodies of Cerberus scientist and operatives are stripped and thrown in a pile... no prisoners taken... and the Alliance's standing thrown into turmoil, well I have an itchy trigger finger. Anderson is a fool who does more harm then good. This was one step too far.

[AkiKishi]

Tennessee88 wrote...

I must say I asked this question after reading previews, other posts, and the Mass Effect wiki. Now that I have actually completed the chapter where the bodies of Cerberus scientist and operatives are stripped and thrown in a pile... no prisoners taken... and the Alliance's standing thrown into turmoil, well I have an itchy trigger finger. Anderson is a fool who does more harm then good. This was one step too far.

Really hard to pity them after what I witnessed in ME1.

[Inverness Moon]

Fixers0 wrote...

for them humans are superior to other races, which is racism,

I think we need some clarification here.

Is it racist to say that humans are superior to varen?

[Tennessee88]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

for them humans are superior to other races, which is racism,

I think we need some clarification here.

Is it racist to say that humans are superior to varen?

Racism as we have known it does not really fit here. No alien society in Mass Effect values all other races the same as they value their own kind. 

I have a question, most of my exposure to Cerberus had led me to believe they simply want to dominate the other species. But in Retribution it is commonly said that they want to eradicate other alien species... is that just the perception that is held by those outside the organization? 

[AkiKishi]

Tennessee88 wrote...

I have a question, most of my exposure to Cerberus had led me to believe they simply want to dominate the other species. But in Retribution it is commonly said that they want to eradicate other alien species... is that just the perception that is held by those outside the organization? 

Umm slavery or death.

[Bailyn242]

misquoted... bad post

Modifié par Bailyn242, 15 février 2011 - 05:24 .

[Dean_the_Young]

wolfsite wrote...

Hell this post you just made more or less shows you don't read my topics but prefer to act as an attack dog.  Also the colony of the dead topic, I just played the mission, cerberus aquired the devices from Exogeni and the path lead to the colony, even in the journal it stated that Cerberus had active cells at the colony and also by the body count a few of the 150 person colony are missing. Finishing the Mission even the game says "Cerberus has a lot to answer for"

And you know what none of that actually says?

That Cerberus instigated it.

The email doesn't say that Cerberus acquaired 'devices', simply samples: what the samples are is vague, and can refer to Dragon's Teeth or husks equally. Neither the email or the colony says Cerberus took devices to the colony, as opposed to Exogeni doing so or even the Dragon's Teeth being discovered there. Neither is unprecidented: Dragon's Teeth have taken over a number of small colonies, while ExoGeni certainly has done experimentation on the colonists of its own colonies. An ExoGeni colony finding Dragon's Teeth, researching, and being huskified, and ExoGeni giving samples is plausible and not deniable. ExoGeni conducting its own Dragon's Teeth experiments on the colony, and giving samples to Cerberus, is plausible and not deniable.

The game links Cerberus to the colony, but the only link we have knowledge of is that Cerberus took samples away (which implied that ExoGeni maintained such samples), and that's pretty much it.

The game doesn't say Cerberus was given Dragon's Teeth.

It doesn't say that Cerberus used Dragon's Teeth.

It doesn't say that Cerberus instigated the huskification.

What 'Cerberus has a lot to answer for' does not innately mean one of those things being starting the colony of the dead incident, as opposed to being involved and allowing it at all.

I have stated this quite a few times, someone just seems to not bother to read it.

I've also made a point as to why your facts don't actually confirm what you're maintaining they state. At which point you made a personal attack and never addressed my dispute.

And, again, no one is impressed or misled by false anonomynity. Address me directly if you want to throw words at me.

[Zulu_DFA]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

for them humans are superior to other races, which is racism,

I think we need some clarification here.
Is it racist to say that humans are superior to varen?

Racism is when an individual is treated on the basis of his belonging to a certain race.

Stating that members of some races on average do some things better, and members of other races on average do other things better is statistical approach. Several Nobel Prize winners in Biology adhere to this "opinion".

[Bailyn242]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

for them humans are superior to other races, which is racism,

I think we need some clarification here.

Is it racist to say that humans are superior to varen?

Species not capable of Calculus.

[Inverness Moon]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

for them humans are superior to other races, which is racism,

I think we need some clarification here.
Is it racist to say that humans are superior to varen?

Racism is when an individual is treated on the basis of his belonging to a certain race.

Stating that members of some races on average do some things better, and members of other races on average do other things better is statistical approach. Several Nobel Prize winners in Biology adhere to this "opinion".

That is exactly what I was going to get into. But I wanted Fixers to lead me there. 

[Bailyn242]

@Zulu:

Ostrich, keeping head in sand to hide from threat. You keeping blinders on to ignore Cerberus failures. Same thing, new day.

The only way Grayson is Anderson's fault would be if he knew what the experiment was. TIM's choice of Paul Grayson for the test subject directly resulted in everything that happened after. If he hadn't chosen Grayson then the Turians and Anderson would never have managed to strike the Cerberus Facility. Nor would they have looked for Grayson to rescue him. Oops, 'nother eff-up by TIM, let's make more excuses. 

Stealthy Frigates? Uhm, there was enough eezo in the Original Normandy to equip a squadron of frigates and you think Cerberus is gonna make enough to take on a larger unit of Turian Cruisers? OK, brilliant plan there, totally plausible.

Decadent and Oppressive Alien Regimes? Textev please. Humanity rules itself with the Alliance as member of the Council. Oppressive, yes, the Asari are going to shake their ****** at us until we submit... LMAO. The Salarians will talk us to death too... too funny. Freedom fighters who have killed more humans than aliens... oh yeah, humans first, remember Shanxi! 

@ddv.rsa:

You must me the kind of person who would shoot at the wolf on the horizon and ignore the Puma crouched over his head waiting to strike.  What did Failberus learn from this failed research project? Can we reverse indoctrination in ME3? Can we disable Reaper implants? Nope? Guess they gained nothing while giving away the identity of every Human Biotic in known space. Golf Clap. Well done.

Anderson did his job (you know representing the interests of humanity as a whole and the Alliance?) until he had the evidence he needed to take direct action. Funny how every pro Cerberus devotee loves to trot out that tired old argument. Fact is that Cerberus Plot armor forced that situation on the characters.

Catching up on this thread has me running late this morning... gotta go, more later.

[Zulu_DFA]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

Hell this post you just made more or less shows you don't read my topics but prefer to act as an attack dog.  Also the colony of the dead topic, I just played the mission, cerberus aquired the devices from Exogeni and the path lead to the colony, even in the journal it stated that Cerberus had active cells at the colony and also by the body count a few of the 150 person colony are missing. Finishing the Mission even the game says "Cerberus has a lot to answer for"

And you know what none of that actually says?

That Cerberus instigated it.

The email doesn't say that Cerberus acquaired 'devices', simply samples: what the samples are is vague, and can refer to Dragon's Teeth or husks equally. Neither the email or the colony says Cerberus took devices to the colony, as opposed to Exogeni doing so or even the Dragon's Teeth being discovered there. Neither is unprecidented: Dragon's Teeth have taken over a number of small colonies, while ExoGeni certainly has done experimentation on the colonists of its own colonies. An ExoGeni colony finding Dragon's Teeth, researching, and being huskified, and ExoGeni giving samples is plausible and not deniable. ExoGeni conducting its own Dragon's Teeth experiments on the colony, and giving samples to Cerberus, is plausible and not deniable.

The game links Cerberus to the colony, but the only link we have knowledge of is that Cerberus took samples away (which implied that ExoGeni maintained such samples), and that's pretty much it.

The game doesn't say Cerberus was given Dragon's Teeth.

It doesn't say that Cerberus used Dragon's Teeth.

It doesn't say that Cerberus instigated the huskification.

What 'Cerberus has a lot to answer for' does not innately mean one of those things being starting the colony of the dead incident, as opposed to being involved and allowing it at all.

I have stated this quite a few times, someone just seems to not bother to read it.

I've also made a point as to why your facts don't actually confirm what you're maintaining they state. At which point you made a personal attack and never addressed my dispute.

And, again, no one is impressed or misled by false anonomynity. Address me directly if you want to throw words at me.

Dean, honestly, I think we have to cede this point to our opponents. I've just reviewed the whole Chaska affair, and I believe what really happened is that in real life BioWare had screwed up and mixed up the game content. That is, the content placed on Nodacrux was meant to be placed on Chaska, and vice versa. That would make both Dr. Ross' experiments on the Thorian creepers a Cerberus operation, and the huskification of that colony (and possibly the MSV Cornucopia too) a Cerberus fault, as suggested by the colony logs. I think I'm going to revise my "Catch grenade" thread and elaborate there on the details. Kinda funny though, that I'm doing it myself and have never ever seen a suggestion of this by a Cerberus hater.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 15 février 2011 - 08:31 .

[Fixers0]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

for them humans are superior to other races, which is racism,

I think we need some clarification here.
Is it racist to say that humans are superior to varen?

Racism is when an individual is treated on the basis of his belonging to a certain race.

Stating that members of some races on average do some things better, and members of other races on average do other things better is statistical approach. Several Nobel Prize winners in Biology adhere to this "opinion".

So what, TIM want's human domiance as he thinks humanity is above all other races,  the fact that he thinkes humanity is superior and other races are below  them makes TIM a racist, and  racism is just one of the many crimes that Cerberus has commited.

[Zulu_DFA]

Fixers0 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

for them humans are superior to other races, which is racism,

I think we need some clarification here.
Is it racist to say that humans are superior to varen?

Racism is when an individual is treated on the basis of his belonging to a certain race.

Stating that members of some races on average do some things better, and members of other races on average do other things better is statistical approach. Several Nobel Prize winners in Biology adhere to this "opinion".

So what, TIM want's human domiance as he thinks humanity is above all other races,  the fact that he thinkes humanity is superior and other races are below  them makes TIM a racist, and  racism is just one of the many crimes that Cerberus has commited.

No, that doesn't make him a racist. Human supremacist - quite. Racist - no.

Oh, and, concerning our earlier exchange, I have to say, that after your assertion that Cerberus are criminal criminals doing criminal things and crimes, I feel all beaten.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 15 février 2011 - 06:12 .

[Tennessee88]

Regardless of whether its racism or not, its the way things work in intergalactic civilization. The strong races survive, thats all there is to it... Interestingly enough, this mindset applies much less to Terminus Systems which appear to be much further along in integration.

[Fixers0]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Oh, and, concerning our earlier exchange, I have to say, that after your assertion that Cerberus are criminal criminals doing criminal things and crimes, I feel all beaten.

Don't blame me, Bioware intented Cerberus to be what they are, a Rogue/Terrorist/Criminal/human supremacist group or whatever you like to call it, they were not  supposed the good guys, of course sometimes the bad guys are doing good, and they help the fight against the evil guys, but that doesn't make them the good guys or free them of previous actions. 

This subject is highly subjective as each person is alowed to have their own opinion, But mine is;

''I disaprove of Cerberus, actions, morals and their motivations'' 

[Zulu_DFA]

Fixers0 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Cerberus are terrorist who should be removed from the Galaxy as they are doing more bad then good things. Anderson is a War hero, and not a traitor, He did was best, He saw Cerberus as terrorists and a danger to Alliance/Human citizens.

Cerberus are freedom fighters, who should be supported as they are doing what needs to be done to liberate the Galaxy from the decadent and oppressive alien regimes. Anderson is an Alliance poster boy, but in reality a drunkard ready to betray the Alliance over a whim of a woman he is in love with.

No Cerberus are criminals, who should be stopped at all cost as they don't care about other species or the average joe and are just trying to archive their insane ideals, Anderson is a man of intergerity, a man who still holds on onto the basic priniciples and who is trying to make the galaxy a better place for everyone.  

No, Cerberus are idealists, who should prevail against all odds, as they are the only group that dares to take a look into the future, and is capable of giving an adequate purpose for all species in the Galaxy, as well as to every average Joe among our own species. Anderson is a retrograde, who hasn't got even a remotely coherent worldview and is likely to act on impulse just as much as on any kind of outdated preconception.

No, Cerberus are criminals who havve commited severe criminal acts agaist the Alliance and the other Citadel races, They have no morals, and only care to complete their own goals which is to become dominats, their leaders is a coward who hides his real name and doesn't responisbility for the actions his organisation made, for them humans are superior to other races, which is racism, Anderson on other hand follows his principals and has a strict code and he cares for the good of the galaxy.

No, Cerberus are heroes, who have the courage to disregard and rebel against the discriminative Citadel laws, and lead the Mankind to its destiny, as opposed to succumbing to the aliens indulging in ignorant and pointless existence. Their leader is an outstanding selfless individual, who rejected all petty amenities of normal life and even his own name, and fully devoted himself to a greater cause. Anderson is a careless idiot, who thinks that risking an interstellar war when the Reapers are already on their way is good for the Galaxy.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 15 février 2011 - 06:41 .

[Tennessee88]

All I have to say is that I am glad that the Alliance or the wonderful council ever did anything to stop the collectors. Tens of Thousands, if not millions are safe because of Cerberus.

[Dean_the_Young]

Bailyn242 wrote...

Stealthy Frigates? Uhm, there was enough eezo in the Original Normandy to equip a squadron of frigates and you think Cerberus is gonna make enough to take on a larger unit of Turian Cruisers? OK, brilliant plan there, totally plausible.

Stealth drives do allow just that, especially in light of advances such as Thannix which give even frigates the firepower of cruisers. Without the sort of advanced sensors to track, any stealth ship can take on a greater number of warships, and at an advantage.

Cerberus does have the capability to build Normandy-style frigates, and (thanks to Shepard, if not by other means), can have the knowledge of Thannix. That means they can have a distinct advantage in a ship-to-ship fight: to shadow, to fight with a first strike, and then to flee at will.

Decadent and Oppressive Alien Regimes? Textev please. Humanity rules itself with the Alliance as member of the Council. Oppressive, yes, the Asari are going to shake their ****** at us until we submit... LMAO. The Salarians will talk us to death too... too funny. Freedom fighters who have killed more humans than aliens... oh yeah, humans first, remember Shanxi!

*Citation needed.

Besdies which: the Council has inforced a number of concessions from Humanity over time. Oppressive is hyperbole, but to say that the Council is dominant (and in many respects retains dominance) over Humanity is accurate.

You must me the kind of person who would shoot at the wolf on the horizon and ignore the Puma crouched over his head waiting to strike.  What did Failberus learn from this failed research project? Can we reverse indoctrination in ME3? Can we disable Reaper implants? Nope? Guess they gained nothing while giving away the identity of every Human Biotic in known space. Golf Clap. Well done.

You really don't have any grounds to say nothing has or will come from Cerberus's research (not least because the story ends with two other factions, Aria and the Alliance, just about to start studying Grayson/the Grayson data), while the indentity of every Human Biotic in the Ascension Project's data banks isn't inherently a huge strategic advantage by any means.

The Reaper War will be determined by ships and armies, not the name of a few thousand human biotics.

Catching up on this thread has me running late this morning... gotta go, more later.

Hope you have a better day.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 15 février 2011 - 07:05 .