502 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

mnmseven wrote...

I believe a sufficient paragon points can make Anderson and TIM hug each other.

Only hug?

[Inverness Moon]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Why is there an either/or?

People invent false dichotomys in order to support their argument. Nothing new. 

[Gabey5]

jbblue05 wrote...

@nevar00

If Anderson is so badass how come Kai Leng kicks his ass with his bare hands.
The only reason Anderson gets the upperhand is by using numbers to his advantage

anderson isn't a young guy in his prime anymore... that is why he has a protege... shepard to kick the asses, he is an admiral now.

[Xilizhra]

Also Cerberus backed you, supported you, trusted you while everyone else turned their back on you. You'd do well to remember that.

Indeed. They know me well and are hence a threat.



And I'm not so sure that Cerberus is the only one doing anything about the Reapers. The geth know about them and seem to be making their own plans, and I suspect that the Council (at least the Paragon-saved Council) is lying about their disbelief; they simply don't want to let a Cerberus agent in on their plans.

[PauseforEffect]

Here's a fun little thought: Will Anderson shoot Shepard if he knows Shepard's loyalties are now with Cerberus?

[Wulfram]

As far as trust goes, I'd say the Council letting Shepard gallivant around the galaxy with Cerberus to combat a threat they don't even believe exists shows considerably more trust than TIM having Shepard do what TIM tells him to in a heavily bugged Cerberus ship with a Cerberus first officer and crew.

[nevar00]

silent_key wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

Tennessee88 wrote...

@Nevar

In some way yes that is how humanity is, hence the need for nations, armies, intelligence agencies, and wars. The primary difference is that no matter what our psychological and biological make up are the same. We can ultimately empathize with anyone on some level, even if we are from cultures which are entirely different. You cannot apply that same logic to aliens.

We would unite, but only if something like, well... like what happened in Mass Effect happened, if we were suddenly thrust into some big alien government.  But unless something like that happens, we really are more or less similiar.  I mean you have the "big names"... USA, Britian,... China can be the Turians... then you have the smaller names like the Volus and the Elcor... and then you have the crazies like the Vorcha and Krogan.  My point being that if all these different human countries could unite, I don't see why it is much different with the other races (going by what we know in Mass Effect).  Obviously exceptions could be with say, the Vorcha, but for the main players like the Asari, Salarians, Quarians, etc., uniting to face a  common threat wouldn't be much different.

A race and a species are completely different things.  A race is a genetically different population within a single species.  To compare Humans and Turians as races is a huge simplification of the issues at hand, not to mention scientifically inaccurate.  Therefore, it is an invalid argument to compare these separate species to humanity in the manner you have.  Humans have the ability to unite on a global scale because we can interbreed with anyone we choose, share, and participate in each others cultures until, eventually, we have reached a homogeneous existence.

This is inconceivable with aliens.  We cannot interbreed (except with asari, but thats a moot point since their children are not human).  We can experience their cultures but never be a part of it.  In short, we cannot unify with them like we can with our own species.  Of course we can trade, form alliances, befriend, etc., but in the end we are all looking out for number 1 (our species), and every single species in ME has been shown to hold to this single truth.

I guess this is why I find it completely ridiculous when people post that they would sacrifice humantiy for the sake of the galaxy.  No matter what, we as humans will ALWAYS choose humans over another species.  It is hardwired into our brain, into our very genetic code.  Anyone saying anything different are just spouting fanciful musing with no in depth thought behind them.  Human dominance is great for humans.  And is no more of a burden on the other races than Turian dominance, or Asari dominance.  The Turians will just have to get used to not being top dog anymore.
 
phew...sorry for the long post.  But on the original topic, I found Anderson's actions frustrating.  If the matter had been left well enough alone, Cerberus would have killed Grayson in a day or two (TIM gave an ultimatum of 3 days i think?),  and we would have been in the same place we are at the end of the novel.  Of course, TIM does make the comment near the end that this will at least push the Alliance into action against the reapers, and he won't have to go it alone anymore.  Obviously Cerberus understands that fighting the reapers is top priority, and they want everyone involved in the counterstrike.

I understand what you are saying, and maybe I didn't make my point clear enough: I don't believe that each species would every reach a peaceful coexistence, but merely a situation more similiar to what we have on Earth, which is hardly a utopian society.  Again I understand the biological and cultural differences, but yet according to what we've seen is Mass Effect,  culturally at least, all species are not much more different then the way Earth itself is now with the exceptions of the Krogan and the Vorcha (the latter of which don't seem to be on the same level of intelligence as the rest of the Galaxy).  Basically they all seem to have distinct music, art, religions, etc... much like we currently do on Earth.  There don't appear to be any extremes... it isn't as if the Salarians sacrafice virgins to their sun.

My point was that the species in the galaxy, for the most part, seem to be able to coexist in a similiar way to how humans from different parts of the world can coexist.  Again, I realize we are talking different species here but based on what we know of the others from what we've heard from Mass Effect, the other species for the most part don't seem to be as different as one might believe.

And yes, I realize that apparantly humanity was "united" after they first made contact with the Turians, but one has to remember that that was only what, 25 years ago from the events of the games?  I find it hard to believe that things would stay that way, and from what I remember hearing in Mass Effect, Earth was in kind of a mess anyway.

This is kind of hard to discuss as we are talking about hypothetical situations in a fictional world, but... yeah.

[nevar00]

jbblue05 wrote...

@nevar00

If Anderson is so badass how come Kai Leng kicks his ass with his bare hands.
The only reason Anderson gets the upperhand is by using numbers to his advantage

Like all those times in Revelation where his forces outnumbered those of the mercs? ...oh wait...

Honestly I was just trolling the TIM lovers with that comment; I don't really care much for Anderson either way.

[Vaenier]

Sajuro wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

I would like to add that without Cerberus pushing for the Normandy to be created, Sovereign would have won already in ME1 and the Galaxy would have died already. The Normandy was a key asset allowing Shep to complete many missions that required stealth. He would have been blown out of the sky otherwise.
Would Shep have even been a Specter without Cerberus pushing for human power in the galaxy?

And if TIM's mother had never had him
And if that Williams Jock in highschool hadn't dumped her
And if he hadn't met that tramp he dumped her for
and if that tramp had never existed
and if her great great grandmother never went to that anti government rally
and if the American Revolution had never taken place
and if the Roman Empire had never collapsed.
and if the random cave man from shepard's vision hadn't pooped in the lake.
Short version is, Cave man saved the galaxy

You seemed to have missed an important point. It was always TIMs intent to make the Alliance stronger in the Galaxy. He didnt have the Normandy built to be a transport ship and it just happened to be useful on stealth missions. He had that ship built because he knew it would be invaluable for special operations. It was his intent for it to be used in dangerous missions that would fail otherwise.

He didnt push for Alliance power for fun, he pushed to make the Alliance save through power. And he did just that. TIM always intended for increased military and political strength of the Alliance, and it has paid off already. His forsight for advancement saved the galaxy.

[DPSSOC]

Wulfram wrote...

As far as trust goes, I'd say the Council letting Shepard gallivant around the galaxy with Cerberus to combat a threat they don't even believe exists shows considerably more trust than TIM having Shepard do what TIM tells him to in a heavily bugged Cerberus ship with a Cerberus first officer and crew.

They let you run amok in a sector of space they don't care about to chase figments of your imagination.  That's not trust that's getting you the hell away from them.  As long as you're in the Terminus you can't cause trouble for them.  To use a geek reference, that's like saying the US Army trusts the Hulk because they dropped him behind enemy lines.  What they're doing is not a sign of trust, it's them counting on you, in your insanity. causing a lot of damage among people they don't like.  Notice that, for all their supposed trust, they don't give you anything.  No intel gathered on the colonies, no leads, not even as little as access to Spectre requisitions.  All they offer is something you never lost.

Cerberus trusts you with a sizeable investment (the Normandy), one of their top operatives, valuable intel, and even trusts you with recovering info they know can hurt them.  You can chose to throw these things back in their face, but that doesn't change the fact that these are gestures of trust and good faith.

[Xilizhra]

Cerberus trusts you with a sizeable investment (the Normandy), one of their top operatives, valuable intel, and even trusts you with recovering info they know can hurt them.

Unless they know it's irrelevant and that sending it to the Alliance means that it'll just end up in Cerberus' hands. I doubt that it means all that much. Cerberus certainly doesn't trust Shepard with anything that could actually hurt them in a major way; the entire crew is expendable.

[Bailyn242]

DPSSOC wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

I think it's pretty amusing that people think Cerberus would be better allies then the ENTIRE GALACTIC FLEET.

Let's see, who would I want at my back to face giant evil spaceships... a small block ops organization (even smaller now thanks to that badass Anderson) or every Alliance, Asari, Salarian, Turian, Krogan, Quarian, Geth (?), and every other soldier and ship from every specie out there? I'm assume there will probably be a 'work together' option, but you'll probably be able to kill TIM in the end.

The best allies are the ones you know will fight at your side.  Where were the Alliance, Asari, Salarians, Turians, Krogan, Quarians, and Geth throughout ME2?  The first four were burying their heads so deep in the sand there's nothing left above and the last 3 were working through their own still unresolved issues.  I'm not saying Cerberus is perfect but they're the only sure ally we have.

Also Cerberus backed you, supported you, trusted you while everyone else turned their back on you.  You'd do well to remember that.

Trusted me enough to tell me that they were sending me into a trap? Trusted me enough to tell me the truth from the beginning? They are far from a trusted and sure ally.

The only sure allies Shepard has is his crew from ME1 and 2, Anderson and possibly Hackett. Everyone else is canon fodder, Cerberus, Quarians, Geth, Krogan, Rachni... all of them. The only proven allies are the people who know for certain that the Reapers are coming and won't stab Shepard in the back. TIM would backstab Shepard in a heartbeat if he had any alternative. 

[DPSSOC]

Bailyn242 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
The best allies are the ones you know will fight at your side.  Where were the Alliance, Asari, Salarians, Turians, Krogan, Quarians, and Geth throughout ME2?  The first four were burying their heads so deep in the sand there's nothing left above and the last 3 were working through their own still unresolved issues.  I'm not saying Cerberus is perfect but they're the only sure ally we have.

Also Cerberus backed you, supported you, trusted you while everyone else turned their back on you.  You'd do well to remember that.

Trusted me enough to tell me that they were sending me into a trap? Trusted me enough to tell me the truth from the beginning? They are far from a trusted and sure ally.

As for the trap TIM gives you his reason; you may not like it but it is valid.  I'm sorry (sincerely) I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "tell me the truth from the beginning" could you please clarify.  I'll give you they aren't exactly the most trustworthy ally you have but they are the only sure ally you have.  Cerberus is the only group you know is opposing the Reapers.  Other groups might be, and the more the merrier, but you only know one for certain.

Bailyn242 wrote...
The only sure allies Shepard has is his crew from ME1 and 2, Anderson and possibly Hackett. Everyone else is canon fodder, Cerberus, Quarians, Geth, Krogan, Rachni... all of them. The only proven allies are the people who know for certain that the Reapers are coming and won't stab Shepard in the back. TIM would backstab Shepard in a heartbeat if he had any alternative. 

While I must question your invocation of crew from ME1 who didn't join you in ME2 (which I suppose is just the VS now that I think about it), Anderson, and Hacket I do have to concede the general point.  You'd probably be best off just relying on people who've been in the thick of it with you but unfortunately that's a really short list.

[Bailyn242]

DPSSOC wrote...

Bailyn242 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
The best allies are the ones you know will fight at your side.  Where were the Alliance, Asari, Salarians, Turians, Krogan, Quarians, and Geth throughout ME2?  The first four were burying their heads so deep in the sand there's nothing left above and the last 3 were working through their own still unresolved issues.  I'm not saying Cerberus is perfect but they're the only sure ally we have.

Also Cerberus backed you, supported you, trusted you while everyone else turned their back on you.  You'd do well to remember that.

Trusted me enough to tell me that they were sending me into a trap? Trusted me enough to tell me the truth from the beginning? They are far from a trusted and sure ally.

As for the trap TIM gives you his reason; you may not like it but it is valid.  I'm sorry (sincerely) I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "tell me the truth from the beginning" could you please clarify.  I'll give you they aren't exactly the most trustworthy ally you have but they are the only sure ally you have.  Cerberus is the only group you know is opposing the Reapers.  Other groups might be, and the more the merrier, but you only know one for certain.

Bailyn242 wrote...
The only sure allies Shepard has is his crew from ME1 and 2, Anderson and possibly Hackett. Everyone else is canon fodder, Cerberus, Quarians, Geth, Krogan, Rachni... all of them. The only proven allies are the people who know for certain that the Reapers are coming and won't stab Shepard in the back. TIM would backstab Shepard in a heartbeat if he had any alternative. 

While I must question your invocation of crew from ME1 who didn't join you in ME2 (which I suppose is just the VS now that I think about it), Anderson, and Hacket I do have to concede the general point.  You'd probably be best off just relying on people who've been in the thick of it with you but unfortunately that's a really short list.

Listen, that ain't the point. TIM is a fool if he thinks that Shepard wouldn't have gone even knowing that it was a trap. What he didn't want to tip the enemy off? Gimme a break, the collectors now have listening devices on the Normany AND in TIM's secure private room? Go read up on QEC again. TIMs excuses for why he didn't want you to know were transparent at best.

QEC is point to point and unhackable so the only way for the information that we knew it was a trap would have been if the Collectors had listening devices in the room with either Shepard or TIM and if that's the case then the Collectors really suck at paying attention. 

It was an excuse for why he kept you out of the loop, it was also an outright lie.

As for crew, Wrex and the VS are the people I refer to. Wrex I trust, his hold on his people is a bit too new/shaky for me to trust the Krogan as a whole even though I like them. The VS has issuess with Shep working with Cerberus. (s)he'll get over it once they accept that it was what Shep had to do to stop the Collectors.

Modifié par Bailyn242, 17 février 2011 - 12:54 .

[DPSSOC]

Bailyn242 wrote...
Listen, that ain't the point. TIM is a fool if he thinks that Shepard wouldn't have gone even knowing that it was a trap. What he didn't want to tip the enemy off? Gimme a break, the collectors now have listening devices on the Normany AND in TIM's secure private room? Go read up on QEC again. TIMs excuses for why he didn't want you to know were transparent at best.

Ok we're clearly looking at this from two very distant points of view.  Telling you could have tipped off the enemy because someone who thinks they're walking into a trap behaves differently from someone who knows they're walking into a trap.  It's like someone who thinks they're getting a surprise party and someone who knows for sure.  The behaviour and reaction to the event are similar but distinct.  That's what I interpreted from "telling you could have tipped off the Collectors."

Bailyn242 wrote...
It was an excuse for why he kept you out of the loop, it was also an outright lie.

You're wrong.  One of the things I like about TIM, and a reason I trust him, is that nothing he tells me is ever factually innaccurate.  I can't count on him to tell me the whole truth but I can take some solace in the fact that what he does tell me isn't falsified.

Bailyn242 wrote...
As for crew, Wrex and the VS are the people I refer to. Wrex I trust, his hold on his people is a bit too new/shaky for me to trust the Krogan as a whole even though I like them. The VS has issuess with Shep working with Cerberus. (s)he'll get over it once they accept that it was what Shep had to do to stop the Collectors.

Not so sure about the VS, on Horizon they make it inescapably clear that they're loyalty is to the Alliance first and you second.  So if ever there comes a choice between you and the Alliance you can't rely on them to side with you.

[Bailyn242]

DPSSOC wrote...

Bailyn242 wrote...
It was an excuse for why he kept you out of the loop, it was also an outright lie.

You're wrong.  One of the things I like about TIM, and a reason I trust him, is that nothing he tells me is ever factually innaccurate.  I can't count on him to tell me the whole truth but I can take some solace in the fact that what he does tell me isn't falsified.

"My source tell me she's working for the Shadow Broker."

Blatant lie in the very first conversation with him. Factually inaccurate from beginning to end. This was my first indication that he was attempting to manipulate Shepard by controlling the information that Shep makes his decisions from. That is just the first building block on the Cerberus spreads rumors to force Shepard to work with Cerberus because all of his previous allies had heard about his connection to Cerberus theory I have.

TIM is a good spymaster, quite good as long as you don't have all the pieces you might even believe that he's just misunderstood. Then he starts lying his heinie off and gets caught.

BTW, the BS that you would act differently is funny. Who drops in on a Collector ship without expecting something? Did anyone go in thinking that there's no threat? I think not. That was a straw man argument if there was ever one. TIMs justifications are the lies he tells you and possibly himself. He tells himself he has to control this information so you don't look like you're expecting a trap as a justification for lying to you. He tells himself that its a good reason.

It's false but meh, nothing I post will ever change the fact that you and others who like Cerberus will make any excuses to justify your choices. Pretty funny that you feel such a vociferous need to defend his actions. Methinks your subconscious is telling you your wrong and you're really trying to convince yourself and the rest of us that there really is a good excuse.

Cerberus employees other than TIM = RED SHIRTS.

Modifié par Bailyn242, 17 février 2011 - 02:04 .

[silent_key]

Bailyn242 wrote...

Listen, that ain't the point. TIM is a fool if he thinks that Shepard wouldn't have gone even knowing that it was a trap. What he didn't want to tip the enemy off? Gimme a break, the collectors now have listening devices on the Normany AND in TIM's secure private room? Go read up on QEC again. TIMs excuses for why he didn't want you to know were transparent at best.

QEC is point to point and unhackable so the only way for the information that we knew it was a trap would have been if the Collectors had listening devices in the room with either Shepard or TIM and if that's the case then the Collectors really suck at paying attention. 

It was an excuse for why he kept you out of the loop, it was also an outright lie.

As for crew, Wrex and the VS are the people I refer to. Wrex I trust, his hold on his people is a bit too new/shaky for me to trust the Krogan as a whole even though I like them. The VS has issuess with Shep working with Cerberus. (s)he'll get over it once they accept that it was what Shep had to do to stop the Collectors.

I don't think it's a matter of whether Shepard would enter the ship if he knew or not.  I'm sure that Shepard would go no matter what.  But people behave much differently when they expect an event to happen.  This is so well documented that even today, high end casino's use top notch security agents that analyze winner's reactions for genuine surprise.  The illusive man's concerns and actions confirm that 22nd century civilizations have even more advanced surveillance and emotion detection methods, hence his reluctance to show his hand to Shepard, and run the risk of spooking the Collectors out of their false sense of security.

TIM knows Shepard's capabilities, and had so much faith in him/her that he believed, even without knowing it's a trap, Shepard would come out on top.  No matter what you say about Cerberus, it's obvious that they trust and respect Shepard far more than the Alliance or Council atm, and the Collector's had no idea who they were f***ing with.

[DPSSOC]

Bailyn242 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Bailyn242 wrote...
It was an excuse for why he kept you out of the loop, it was also an outright lie.

You're wrong.  One of the things I like about TIM, and a reason I trust him, is that nothing he tells me is ever factually innaccurate.  I can't count on him to tell me the whole truth but I can take some solace in the fact that what he does tell me isn't falsified.

"My source tell me she's working for the Shadow Broker."

Blatant lie in the very first conversation with him. Factually inaccurate from beginning to end.

 
Not at all.  "My sources tell me," and no doubt they did.  He may know different but that isn't what he said.  Again factual accuracy if not the whole truth.  It would be a blatant lie if he said, "She's working for the Shadow Broker."  As it stands it's a half truth.

Bailyn242 wrote...
BTW, the BS that you would act differently is funny. Who drops in on a Collector ship without expecting something? Did anyone go in thinking that there's no threat? I think not. That was a straw man argument if there was ever one. TIMs justifications are the lies he tells you and possibly himself. He tells himself he has to control this information so you don't look like you're expecting a trap as a justification for lying to you. He tells himself that its a good reason.

You know sometimes I don't know why I bother, but still I do.  As I said there is a difference between expecting a trap (as most of us probably did) and knowing there's one for certain.  The latter tends to lead to over-playing your hand.  Either you act with too much caution/suspiscion, revealing you know there's something to be cautious about, or you act with too little caution in order to encourage your assaillant to spring the trap early.  In order to ensure that Shepard and co. behaved naturally TIM had to leave Shepard with just his gut feeling about the mission.  Allow me to put it this way, how often do you see someone try to act a certain way (casual, aloof, aggressive, etc.) and pull it off as genuine?  Actors and undercover operatives train for years to master faking genuine; with a single possible exception (Infiltrator) Shepard would have received no such training.

Bailyn242 wrote...
Pretty funny that you feel such a vociferous need to defend his actions. Methinks your subconscious is telling you your wrong and you're really trying to convince yourself and the rest of us that there really is a good excuse.

Nah my subconcious and I had a nice sit down and worked it out that we're on the same page; it's cool.

[Sajuro]

Vaenier wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

I would like to add that without Cerberus pushing for the Normandy to be created, Sovereign would have won already in ME1 and the Galaxy would have died already. The Normandy was a key asset allowing Shep to complete many missions that required stealth. He would have been blown out of the sky otherwise.
Would Shep have even been a Specter without Cerberus pushing for human power in the galaxy?

And if TIM's mother had never had him
And if that Williams Jock in highschool hadn't dumped her
And if he hadn't met that tramp he dumped her for
and if that tramp had never existed
and if her great great grandmother never went to that anti government rally
and if the American Revolution had never taken place
and if the Roman Empire had never collapsed.
and if the random cave man from shepard's vision hadn't pooped in the lake.
Short version is, Cave man saved the galaxy

You seemed to have missed an important point. It was always TIMs intent to make the Alliance stronger in the Galaxy. He didnt have the Normandy built to be a transport ship and it just happened to be useful on stealth missions. He had that ship built because he knew it would be invaluable for special operations. It was his intent for it to be used in dangerous missions that would fail otherwise.

He didnt push for Alliance power for fun, he pushed to make the Alliance save through power. And he did just that. TIM always intended for increased military and political strength of the Alliance, and it has paid off already. His forsight for advancement saved the galaxy.

Does that mean the Turians also helped in saving the galaxy since the Normandy was a joint project? Anderson saved the galaxy also and risked a great deal to do it. So why would you be so protective of TIM when both the Turians and Anderson are also partially responsible for the Normandy's construction and you are willing to let them die. What if you found out that Velarn advocated for the building of the SR-1, would you still make the 'dismiss this' jokes?

[Inverness Moon]

Bailyn242 wrote...

"My source tell me she's working for the Shadow Broker."

Blatant lie in the very first conversation with him. Factually inaccurate from beginning to end. This was my first indication that he was attempting to manipulate Shepard by controlling the information that Shep makes his decisions from. That is just the first building block on the Cerberus spreads rumors to force Shepard to work with Cerberus because all of his previous allies had heard about his connection to Cerberus theory I have.

I think your feelings about TIM and Cerberus are overwhelming your common sense.

You seemed to have dismissed the obvious possibility that TIM's source could simply be wrong.

[Sajuro]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Bailyn242 wrote...

"My source tell me she's working for the Shadow Broker."

Blatant lie in the very first conversation with him. Factually inaccurate from beginning to end. This was my first indication that he was attempting to manipulate Shepard by controlling the information that Shep makes his decisions from. That is just the first building block on the Cerberus spreads rumors to force Shepard to work with Cerberus because all of his previous allies had heard about his connection to Cerberus theory I have.

I think your feelings about TIM and Cerberus are overwhelming your common sense.

You seemed to have dismissed the obvious possibility that TIM's source could simply be wrong.

There's a big difference between "She wants to murder the shadow broker and desecrate his rotting corpse" and "she is working for the shadow broker"
Given that TIM says information is his weapon (I think) if he can get something that drastically different that wrong, he might just want to get a new weapon.

[Casuist]

...not to mention, given the events of ME: Redemption, if TIM believes said "source" he isn't particularly competent.



He was lying - you can put it into any category you like that Mordin laid out for you "wasn't completely honest lie of omission also other kinds.... mission too important to keep secrets"



WHATEVER the scenario you come up with about the nameless source, the implication of TIM's comment is vastly outside a reality of which he is aware. Therefore, the impression he is seeking to give in that statement to Sheperd is, quite expicitly, a lie.

[Obadiah]

I wouldn't shoot Anderson. Heck, after what I saw Cerberus do in ME1 my Sheps would probably lead an attack against them as well.

Modifié par Obadiah, 17 février 2011 - 05:36 .

[Monochrome Wench]

She was working for the Shadow Broker! She was one of his agents on Illium. She just also happened to be attempting to track him down and kill him. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Working for the person you want to kill does make sense if you can't find them any other way.

Same could be said of Shepards who want to kill TIM.

Modifié par Monochrome Wench, 17 février 2011 - 08:03 .

[Wulfram]

DPSSOC wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

As far as trust goes, I'd say the Council letting Shepard gallivant around the galaxy with Cerberus to combat a threat they don't even believe exists shows considerably more trust than TIM having Shepard do what TIM tells him to in a heavily bugged Cerberus ship with a Cerberus first officer and crew.

They let you run amok in a sector of space they don't care about to chase figments of your imagination.  That's not trust that's getting you the hell away from them.  As long as you're in the Terminus you can't cause trouble for them.  To use a geek reference, that's like saying the US Army trusts the Hulk because they dropped him behind enemy lines.  What they're doing is not a sign of trust, it's them counting on you, in your insanity. causing a lot of damage among people they don't like.  Notice that, for all their supposed trust, they don't give you anything.  No intel gathered on the colonies, no leads, not even as little as access to Spectre requisitions.  All they offer is something you never lost.

They don't seize the Cerberus frigate you just flew into their Citadel, or send the entire crew off for interrogation.  That's a pretty huge concession to start off with.
A Spectre operating in the Terminus systems can cause considerable problems for them.  In ME1 they're concerned that one ship could start a war.
Plus you get a discount at Citadel Souvenirs!  I don't know about you, but my Shepard could never have defeated the collectors without his hamster.

Cerberus trusts you with a sizeable investment (the Normandy), one of their top operatives, valuable intel, and even trusts you with recovering info they know can hurt them.  You can chose to throw these things back in their face, but that doesn't change the fact that these are gestures of trust and good faith.

They don't trust you with one of their operatives - they set one of their operatives to watch you.  The Normandy SR2 is riddled with bugs, crewed by people loyal to Cerberus and designed to announce to the world that Shepard is working for Cerberus.