450 réponses à ce sujet

[jeweledleah]

jlb524 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

its not about hetero species being cheesy - asari are skirting the edges of sexy blue babe far too closely as it is, adding gender preferences into it would be cheese and yes, offensive, so I'm glad they are not.

That makes zero sense and seems a bit discriminatory.

jeweledleah wrote...
sigh. asari didn't start enjoy "men" out of the blue. it wasn't number of years it was number of asari generations, at least a few centuries. they enjoy other species, both men and women. because of the nature of their procreative abilities, they have discovered that they can actually have children with species they enjoy. I guess its an offensive crime.

Try to look at this from a higher level perspective (a purely meta one)....

Don't bring up any in game 'facts' to justify your argument.

I AM looking at it from meta perspective and I'm still not seeing your point.

edited to add - there's only stigma against having children with other asari.  there is no stigma in relationship with other asari for anyhting other then children

Modifié par jeweledleah, 14 février 2011 - 09:09 .

[jlb524]

tmk wrote...

Of course both reasons for the pressure against asari/asari pairings are pulled out of some random place, that's for sure. Meta-perspective...

Wow, I think someone finally understands that my issue is from a meta-perspective.

[Kronner]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Oh, gods.

Okay, I'll go over this point by point.  You said asari do not look aesthetically lesbian.  Asari look exactly like humans.  Therefore an asari with another asari or an asari with a human female IS AESTHETICALLY LESBIAN BY DEFINITION.
Hence why I asked if you knew what aesthetically meant.  You can't say it doesn't look lesbian because you don't judge asari by only their looks.  In this case you can not judge anything but their looks. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie] 

And why should I care? Like I said so many times before, just because they LOOK like human female does not mean they actually ARE similar to human females or human female lesbians in any other way, so they do NOT look like lesbians to me, to me they aesthetically look like blue aliens that resembe human female.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Also, killing people is not a guarantee of AY, and not being able to procreate is a common occurrence for many reasons.  I know some infertile people, and I do not deem them any lesser than people who are fertile.

you're judging the AY and by extension asari+asari relationships by your personal preferences on what you think is better, hence there are no facts.

You can't deny that AY is worse than standard asari in any way possible. Once again, you are attempting to argue 1 is greater than 2, and obviously you are failing.

Modifié par Kronner, 14 février 2011 - 09:14 .

[jlb524]

jeweledleah wrote...

I AM looking at it from meta perspective and I'm still not seeing your point.

No, you are not b/c you keep brining up in game facts.

[jeweledleah]

jlb524 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

I AM looking at it from meta perspective and I'm still not seeing your point.

No, you are not b/c you keep brining up in game facts.

umm...but that's what we have to go on.  in game facts.  seeing as we're discussing in game race.  are you deliberately looking for something to be offended at?

[Sable Phoenix]

NICKjnp wrote...

Sable Phoenix wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

Ummm...I don't ever remember seeing that in the codex. And you are talking to the Morinth (the only in game Ardat-Yakshi) fan group leader.

It's in the ME1 Codex.  It may not be in the ME2 Codex, I'm not sure because I only read the new entries in that one, not the stuff transferred over from 1.

The Ardat-Yakshi are not in the ME1 Codex.

That codex entry has nothing to do with the Ardat-Yakshi, it is in the ME1 Codex entries about the asari in general.

[tmk]

jeweledleah wrote...
I AM looking at it from meta perspective and I'm still not seeing your point.

Her point is, it's double standards. It's acceptable to design a race of female-only 99% human aliens that have "fanservice" written all over them, but it's not acceptable to take it to the logical conclusion and show them as the race of space lesbians they technically should be.

[jlb524]

jeweledleah wrote...

umm...but that's what we have to go on.  in game facts.  seeing as we're discussing in game race.  are you deliberately looking for something to be offended at?

No...when one looks at something from a meta-perspective, they only concern themselves with design and intention, not the in-universe facts made up by the writers to justify them.

tmk wrote...

Her point is, it's double standards. It's
acceptable to design a race of female-only 99% human aliens that have
"fanservice" written all over them, but it's not acceptable to take it
to the logical conclusion and show them as the race of space lesbians
they technically should be.

Indeed.

But I guess lesbians are too 'cheesy' for some.

Modifié par jlb524, 14 février 2011 - 09:13 .

[jeweledleah]

tmk wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
I AM looking at it from meta perspective and I'm still not seeing your point.

Her point is, it's double standards. It's acceptable to design a race of female-only 99% human aliens that have "fanservice" written all over them, but it's not acceptable to take it to the logical conclusion and show them as the race of space lesbians they technically should be.

becasue having children with elcor and salarians for several millenia just screams space lesbian?

[jlb524]

jeweledleah wrote...

becasue having children with elcor and salarians for several millenia just screams space lesbian?

They were definitely space lesbians all those years they were mating only with other asari...

Oh, and now they are not!

[Arturia Pendragon]

This topic brings back a certain scene from Babylon 5.

http://www.youtube.c...QxYgGas#t=1m20s

Boom shabalabalaba.

Modifié par Arturia Pendragon, 14 février 2011 - 09:16 .

[jeweledleah]

correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't lesbian imply a preference for female over male? for asari, such preference never existed because they have no males. they used to mate among themselves. and now they mate with other species. gender is irrelevant.

[Siansonea]

Whole lot of arguing going on in this thread, and I'm not sure why that is.

[jlb524]

jeweledleah wrote...

correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't lesbian imply a preference for female over male? for asari, such preference never existed because they have no males. they used to mate among themselves. and now they mate with other species. gender is irrelevant.

Lesbian = loving women...the definitely has nothing to do with men.

[Kaltrec]

Im sure some curious Asari child once asked why don't the human girls mate together

Anyway back to asari, some of them have female preference, some have male, some dont really care

Modifié par Kaltrec, 14 février 2011 - 09:20 .

[tmk]

jeweledleah wrote...
correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't lesbian imply a preference for female over male? for asari, such preference never existed because they have no males.

Logically, they should have preference for females (because, as you just mentioned, they had no males to evolve a preference towards).

jeweledleah wrote...
...they used to mate among themselves. and now they mate with other species. gender is irrelevant.

Yep, except in just a few asari generations they seem to have completely stopped mating among themselves and now are seen paired almost exclusively with alien males. One would reasonably expect at least a 50/50 split between asari/asari and asari/non-asari pairings (at least some 5 to 10 percent of non-asari pairings being asari/female alien pairings).

[Sentox6]

rynluna wrote...
That's exactly what the asari were for thousands of years.  I'm a lesbian myself and the idea of a species of females that only love lesbians is something I would personally like.  However, I know who the target audience is currently and something like this won't be happening any time soon.

I'm just picking on your semantics. It would be quite unusual to have a race that is only attracted to females on the basis of their orientation. I mean, surely you're found a straight female attractive at some point in your lifetime?

At any rate, I don't think human perceptions of sexual orientation can ever really begin to apply to a mono-gendered species. It's just completely different from any aspect of our reality. Meta-perspective arguments are another matter.

Modifié par Sentox6, 14 février 2011 - 09:24 .

[jeweledleah]

tmk wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't lesbian imply a preference for female over male? for asari, such preference never existed because they have no males.

Logically, they should have preference for females (because, as you just mentioned, they had no males to evolve a preference towards).

jeweledleah wrote...
...they used to mate among themselves. and now they mate with other species. gender is irrelevant.

Yep, except in just a few asari generations they seem to have completely stopped mating among themselves and now are seen paired almost exclusively with alien males. One would reasonably expect at least a 50/50 split between asari/asari and asari/non-asari pairings (at least some 5 to 10 percent of non-asari pairings being asari/female alien pairings).

who said they only pair up with alien males?  they pair up with aliens, period. they even call another asari donor - father, that doesn't imply actual gender of a father.

[Sentox6]

jlb524 wrote...

They were definitely space lesbians all those years they were mating only with other asari...

Oh, and now they are not!

Hold on. The problem is that you're defining them as lesbians in the sense that they are exclusively attracted to other females. Yet, prior to contact with other species, there were no males in existence. Such a definition is meaningless. You can postulate that they've evolved a preference for what are ostensibly females by our standards, but the word 'lesbian' as we understand it is misnomer.

Apparently, they were space bisexuals for all those years. Or perhaps, more likely, the male/female gender distinction has no meaning for a mono-gendered race. And round and round we go.

Modifié par Sentox6, 14 février 2011 - 09:33 .

[tmk]

Ericzio wrote...
Remember that they found out that the father brings benefitial traits as when an asari and an asari mate, nothing is gained, they try to gain something in mating, that doesn't mean that they don't find each other attractive anymore 

Except that's handwaving, because asari/alien children are always 100% asari and don't appear to actually gain any new traits or infer any particular resemblance to father species. It's like they went, "ok, we need to come up with in-character reason why we don't have asari/asari couples all over the game, and we only have five minutes for it".

Logically, there's no way anything could possibly be gained from alien DNA - which by definition is nothing like your own. Even if it has some beneficial traits - they are beneficial in context of building upon the rest of that species genetic material. You can't just mix and match portions of other species' DNA into your baby's and expect something beneficial (even if it's some Earth species - you'll be lucky if the baby even survives until birth).