450 réponses à ce sujet

[jeweledleah]

I have no problem personally with same sex only relationships. I can perfectly see them as happening between humans, and possibly even humans/other species that have a distinction between male and female. but asari were not designed as lesbians. they were designed as mono gendered species that can procreate with anything sentient, regardless of appearance or gender (IE elcor)

yes, we don't see a lot of asari/whatever couples. we don't see all that many human couples either. or elcor. or salarian. or Hanar. or drell.

we only hear about them. sometimes we over hear the conversations, sometimes characters tell us about them. and what we heard from asari is that they mate with aliens. they never specify gender because gender really does have no meaning to them.

its been over 2000 years since asari encountered other species and figured out they can meld/mate with them. even for someone as long lived as asari - its enough time for cultural changes.

P.S.  asari are not atracted to human males based on their appearance.  they are not atracted to ANYONE based on their appearance.  they look for other parameters.  yes, that's what we hear from in game asari, and I'm sorry, but that's the best source

Modifié par jeweledleah, 14 février 2011 - 10:16 .

[jlb524]

Raanz wrote...

Sorry if my reply is late in the conversation, but might I pose a similar question to all of the FemSheps.  Would you be so inclined to be so adamant about Liara if the Asari were a mono-gendered species that resembled the human male but instead of hair they had these sleaky tubes for hair?

Absolutely not.  I wouldn't romance that version of 'Liara'. 

[tmk]

Ericzio wrote...
True, but remeber these aren't the same asari that were mating with each other centries ago, take a look at our very own species, we were always straight for the longest time and now we have same-sex marriages everywhere.

Our species never was "always straight". It's just that some people in our society are slowly starting to realize that gays don't have to be killed with fire.

[jlb524]

Sentox6 wrote...

Then I still assert that your definition of lesbian is tied to men, which is why I objected to you trying to subvert me on this point. That's all.

No, my definition of 'not lesbian' is tied to men.

[jlb524]

jeweledleah wrote...

P.S.  asari are not atracted to human males based on their appearance.  they are not atracted to ANYONE based on their appearance.  they look for other parameters.  yes, that's what we hear from in game asari, and I'm sorry, but that's the best source

But why must it be that way?

Also, it doesn't make sense that the asari's mating includes a physical as well as mental component, but then they are magically incapable of feeling physical attraction/repulsion and only care about the 'mind'...

[jeweledleah]

jlb524 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

P.S.  asari are not atracted to human males based on their appearance.  they are not atracted to ANYONE based on their appearance.  they look for other parameters.  yes, that's what we hear from in game asari, and I'm sorry, but that's the best source

But why must it be that way?

Also, it doesn't make sense that the asari's mating includes a physical as well as mental component, but then they are magically incapable of feeling physical attraction/repulsion and only care about the 'mind'...

they are designed that way.  their mating doesn't actualy include physical componet for asari benefit, if there's touching etc involved, its for the benefit of the other species.  they possibly enjoy it especialy if sensations are shared, but they don't need it.  that's the whole point.

[Sentox6]

jlb524 wrote...

No, my definition of 'not lesbian' is tied to men.

"not lesbian" isn't a concept unto itself. It's a negatory abverb combined with a noun. If "lesbian" does not depend upon genders for its definition, then you should not be able to negate its meaning with reference to those genders.

Yet you clearly state that a consensual relationship with a man makes one not a lesbian. So "lesbian" has to be defined as exclusive sexual attraction to women. You can't have your cake and eat it too by pretending "lesbian" and "not lesbian" are somehow two separate concepts.

Yes, you can call pre-spaceflight Asari lesbian, but it's entirely redundant.

Modifié par Sentox6, 14 février 2011 - 10:27 .

[tmk]

jeweledleah wrote...
its been over 2000 years since asari encountered other species and figured out they can meld/mate with them. even for someone as long lived as asari - its enough time for cultural changes.

Two thousand years ago people were outright beating each others to death with stones about their sexuality, it and called that divine commandment. Today, we as a society still haven't completely come to terms with all the aspects of it.

For the asari, it's just a couple generations. Hell of a quick social change for something that radical, if you ask me.

[Raanz]

 

 Except that only serves to reinforce the question of why the heck are the in-game asari all over freaky alien males all of a sudden.

The way I see it, it's really not that difficult to understand.  Bioware has tried to explain the reasoning by introducing the Ardat-Yakshi for "purebreds", as well as the melding process.  It all really boils down to "how can we appease all of our fan base"....introduce a race that looks like females, are aliens and can "romance" any gender.

P.S.  asari are not atracted to human males based on their appearance.  they are not atracted to ANYONE based on their appearance.  they look for other parameters.  yes, that's what we hear from in game asari, and I'm sorry, but that's the best source

If I wanted to tie it to the fiction of Mass Effect, this is the best and only explanation that I would subscribe to, with one caveat:  I still think Asari can be physically attracted to another species and they don't really give a rat's ass if it's male or female.   Maybe before they encountered other alien species, they pro-created, maybe there was very little pleasure associated with it...but NOW....well maybe they find it fun now.  
Hell, we are all speculating here.

[jlb524]

Sentox6 wrote...

"not lesbian" isn't a concept unto itself. It's a negatory abverb combined with a noun. If "lesbian" does not depend upon genders for its definition, then you should not be able to negate its meaning with reference to those genders.

Yet you clearly state that a consensual relationship with a man makes one not a lesbian. So "lesbian" has to be defined as exclusive sexual attraction to women. You can't have your cake and eat it too by pretending "lesbian" and "not lesbian" are somehow two separate concepts.

You can call pre-spaceflight Asari lesbian, but it's entirely redundant, and carries no real intrinsic meaning.

Okay, let's call a woman that likes men and women both a  'gobbledegoober'.

[jeweledleah]

tmk wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
its been over 2000 years since asari encountered other species and figured out they can meld/mate with them. even for someone as long lived as asari - its enough time for cultural changes.

Two thousand years ago people were outright beating each others to death with stones about their sexuality, it and called that divine commandment. Today, we as a society still haven't completely come to terms with all the aspects of it.

For the asari, it's just a couple generations. Hell of a quick social change for something that radical, if you ask me.

6 or 7 generations to be precise (assuming that asari have children around 350 mark on average -you know when they enter matron stage).  not to mention they don't have the same gender hangups we do.  not to mention homosexuality was not exactly reviled in ancient times if one were to judge based on frescos etc. 

[Sentox6]

tmk wrote...
Two thousand years ago people were outright beating each others to death with stones about their sexuality, it and called that divine commandment. Today, we as a society still haven't completely come to terms with all the aspects of it.

For the asari, it's just a couple generations. Hell of a quick social change for something that radical, if you ask me.

Two thousand years strikes me as more than long enough for a species that has no need to differentiate between gender in the context of sexuality.

[adneate]

Ericzio wrote...
True, but remeber these aren't the same asari that were mating with each other centries ago, take a look at our very own species, we were always straight for the longest time and now we have same-sex marriages everywhere.

The idea that homosexuality is A) A recent phenomenon and A strictly human endeavour is a Neo-Con / Religious Fundamentalist construct. It both has existed for the entirity of the species and exists in other animals, there have been Kings and even Popes who were homosexuals. It's reasonable to assume that it has perpetually existed as a minority and simply only recently has been discussed whereas before it was repressed under strict Victorian ideals that persisted until the 1960's.

Just because something isn't talked about openly doesn't mean it didn't exist and I can gaurantee there were many, many gay people who forced themselves into heterosexual relationships just to conform to societal norms.

[Sentox6]

jlb524 wrote...
Okay, let's call a woman that likes men and women both a 'gobbledegoober'.

I figured bisexual was an adequate label.

Modifié par Sentox6, 14 février 2011 - 10:31 .

[wizardryforever]

tmk wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
its been over 2000 years since asari encountered other species and figured out they can meld/mate with them. even for someone as long lived as asari - its enough time for cultural changes.

Two thousand years ago people were outright beating each others to death with stones about their sexuality, it and called that divine commandment. Today, we as a society still haven't completely come to terms with all the aspects of it.

For the asari, it's just a couple generations. Hell of a quick social change for something that radical, if you ask me.

It's not quite that simple.  Asari can live for 1000 years, yes?  However, the way it is stated in game seems to indicate that this age is at the extreme old-age end of the spectrum.  Compare it to humans, let's say for the sake of argument that the upper limit for humans is 100 years.  Do you consider 200 years to be two generations?  I don't, as I understand it a new generation begins every 10-15 years, thus 200 years is more like 20 generations than 2.

If we make the comparison absolute, 2000 years is more like 10 generations or more, depending on birthrate and maturity rate.  So it really is a significant amount of time even for a long-lived race like the Asari.

[tmk]

Sentox6 wrote...
Yet you clearly state that a consensual relationship with a man makes one not a lesbian. So "lesbian" has to be defined as exclusive sexual attraction to women. You can't have your cake and eat it too by pretending "lesbian" and "not lesbian" are somehow two separate concepts.

You can call pre-spaceflight Asari lesbian, but it's entirely redundant, and carries no real intrinsic meaning.

This is sophistics. What are you trying to say, exactly?

Let us define a set called "sentient beings". Let us define a set called "lesbians". The difference of those sets are "not lesbians". Pre-spaceflight, asari were all "lesbians". The question is, what exactly pushed them into non-lesbian set so quickly and thoroughly.

[jeweledleah]

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Pansexuality - I believe perfectly describes asari's attitudes. or Kelly's

[jlb524]

jeweledleah wrote...
not to mention they don't have the same gender hangups we do. 

Why wouldn't they?

Sentox6 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
Okay, let's call a woman that likes men and women both a 'gobbledegoober'.

I figured bisexual was an adequate label.

That works too.

Modifié par jlb524, 14 février 2011 - 10:37 .

[ObserverStatus]

The top two threads today are"asari/sex" and "undies/sex" I think love is in the air

[jeweledleah]

jlb524 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
not to mention they don't have the same gender hangups we do. 

Why wouldn't they?

they are not human?  they only have one gender?  would you rather they were heterophobic?  (is it even a word? O_O)

Modifié par jeweledleah, 14 février 2011 - 10:39 .

[Kaltrec]

bobobo878 wrote...

The top two threads today are"asari/sex" and "undies/sex" I think love is in the air

Probably or maybe people are feeling lonely

[Sentox6]

tmk wrote...
This is sophistics. What are you trying to say, exactly?

Let us define a set called "sentient beings". Let us define a set called "lesbians". The difference of those sets are "not lesbians". Pre-spaceflight, asari were all "lesbians". The question is, what exactly pushed them into non-lesbian set so quickly and thoroughly.

You seem to want to utilise different definitions so you can say Asari behaviour is not congruous. Pre-spaceflight, you define lesbianism as sexual attraction to other women: therefore, the Asari are lesbians. Post-spaceflight, the definition becomes exclusive sexual attraction to other women, so that it can be stated the Asari are no longer lesbians.

If you consistently apply the first definition, the Asari are still lesbians. If you adopt the latter, they were never lesbians, because they had no choice but to pick female partners prior to contact with other species; when given the opportunity, some have taken male partners, demonstrating them to be bisexual.

Still, I maintain that this is all irrelevant. Applying human concepts of gender-based orientation is pointless, and as someone else has pointed out, Asari purportedly pick partners on the basis of traits unrelated to appearance, which really puts the nail in the coffin.

Modifié par Sentox6, 14 février 2011 - 10:46 .

[emmanuelsieyes]

Humans need some stimulation while having sex because for we humans, sex is very mechanical. Ultimately, sex is designed to create a new generation of the species. In order for humans to reproduce, the man has to impregnate the woman. Our method of doing this involves liquid transfer. For reasons that should be obvious, squirting out semen at the drop of a hat would be a bad thing. Therefore, the human male body is designed to only release semen after a given set of conditions have been fulfilled (stimulation in all of the proper areas).



Ultimately, humans have erogenous zones so that we know we are in 'sex mode'. Nerve endings inside the erogenous zones transmit electrical signals into the brain. However, the Asari cut out the middleman. Their method of reproduction is strictly neuroelectronic. They don't need physical erogenous zones, because they can directly interface into the partner's nervous system. Then, they can send signals to excite the partner.



The major 'plot hole' in this isn't anything involving physical penetration -- the asari can give you the feelings of physical penetration, just by sending the proper impulses into the brain. The problem is that connecting into someones nervous system doesn't tell you anything about their DNA. Unless the Asari are born with a gel electrophoresis apparatus built into their fingers, then they won't be able to tell anything about genes (which are meaningless out of context). 'Copying' part of a genetic code isn't possible, you need to have the entire context of the organism for it to work. Let's say I isolate the genes that are responsible for the development of the heart. Those genes are worthless on their own, since without a respiratory system, nervous system, etc. those genes are worthless.



I think that the Asari are capable of conceiving a child without a partner. Perhaps some sort of mitosis. The neural interface likely serves as an incentive to reproduce (perhaps the asari have some sort of neural limit switch that will only allow fertilization to begin after a mating cycle).



Of course, it's completely impossible. Doesn't mean I don't love the Asari.

[tmk]

Sentox6 wrote...
Two thousand years strikes me as more than long enough for a species that has no need to differentiate between gender in the context of sexuality.

They used to have no need to differentiate because before spaceflight, they had nothing to differentiate - they were all female. However, there would still be a strong pressure to mate with someone who looks like yourself - it's a safety "mechanism" in order to avoid propagating genetic abnormalities. One would think this would affect them even stronger since they did not evolve with two genders and biologically have no reason to be attracted to what would likely look like genetic abnormality to them.

However, in-game we see that they absolutely dig these new "genetic abnormalities" of other species, to the point of nearly completely abandoning the tried-and-true way of mating with each other, and practically never mating with other races' females.

It really just looks like alien penises are irrestible to asari (despite the fact that, from evolutionary standpoint, they don't even have any reason to derive pleasure from sexual penetration), and all the stuff about ardat-yakshi and gaining something from other races are just thinly veiled excuses. Yea, sure, explicitly they say that they're just attracted to all species and genders, but implications from what you actually see in-game make you wonder.