450 réponses à ce sujet

[Sereiphiel]

tmk wrote...

Sereiphiel wrote...
Are you serious? lol.  You probably have no idea what anal sex is, some people consider the anus a pleasure point...you imbecile.  Think before you comment, it helps.

That's because for women the rectum is close enough to vagina that some innervation in there can also be stimulated that way. And men supposedly enjoy it due to having prostatae. Asari would have neither.

(To clarify, they would probably have some sort of a vagina, but it would not be innervated for pleasure like it is for human women. And prostata is a male organ).

That's better.

Anyhow, it actually isn't known whether the fictional Asari have an anus to extract biowaste or not, since that is all they would need it for, but it is logical to assume that at least one "hole" is down there because they would need to extract solid and liquid forms of biowaste.  Going "anal" with an Asari would be pleasurable not because of a "pleasure point" factor, but because the Asari is already feeling pleasure on every level when the intimacy starts from just a touch or suggestion.  So technically Shepard (and I can't help but laugh at this even though it's probably true) had some anal xxx with Liara too lol.

Modifié par Sereiphiel, 15 février 2011 - 12:15 .

[tmk]

AlexMBrennan wrote...
I was referring to pre-spaceflight asari, and the fact that it's silly to call them "lesbians" given that they had never encountered males from another sentient species at that point. After all, pre-spaceflight, all asari were sexually attracted to males from the species they had encountered: { }

Right, so that whole time the poor asari didn't know what they were missing, until thousands of years later they finally discovered what they really like. Despite the fact it would make no sense for them to like it in the first place. And it's not cheezy at all (compared to them remaining attracted to their own gender).

[jeweledleah]

why do you keep on focusing on alien males for god's sakes. nowhere do asari state that they are attracted to males and males only. in fact they specifically state that they are interested in other species and that gender is irrelevant. half those species don't look anything even close to an asari. hanar in particular is not even humanoid.



sigh.

[Sereiphiel]

tmk wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...
I was referring to pre-spaceflight asari, and the fact that it's silly to call them "lesbians" given that they had never encountered males from another sentient species at that point. After all, pre-spaceflight, all asari were sexually attracted to males from the species they had encountered: { }

Right, so that whole time the poor asari didn't know what they were missing, until thousands of years later they finally discovered what they really like. Despite the fact it would make no sense for them to like it in the first place. And it's not cheezy at all (compared to them remaining attracted to their own gender).

Yeah they are lesbians, but they don't mind males either.  It would be more accurate to classify them as having "bi-sexual" preferences.

[TheMarshal]

jlb524 wrote...

I would rather they just stick with their own species.

Being 'not human' has nothing to do with it, as other species have gender hangups.  Actually, the asari being attracted to only females wouldn't necessarily be a 'gender hang-up' it's just natural. 

Again, what if we met a species that had three genders, male/female/other.  Does this invalidate our dual-gendered definitions and we now will be magically attracted to the 'other' category?

I don't think it would preclude the possibility of some humans being attracted to the "other," either.

[Sentox6]

tmk wrote...

Right, so that whole time the poor asari didn't know what they were missing, until thousands of years later they finally discovered what they really like. Despite the fact it would make no sense for them to like it in the first place. And it's not cheezy at all (compared to them remaining attracted to their own gender).

I think the question of the cultural disregard for purebloods and the apparent insistence upon relationships with other races is a valid point.

What I don't like is your insistence upon taking this interesting topic and trying to repurpose it as projection of human gender and sexuality.

[tmk]

Sereiphiel wrote...
Going "anal" with an Asari would be pleasurable not because of a "pleasure point" factor, but because the Asari is already feeling pleasure on every level when the intimacy starts with the black eyes.  So technically Shepard (and I can't help but laugh at this even though it's probably true) had some anal xxx with Liara too lol.

That doesn't even any...

Black eyes indicate mind contact. Both Liara and Shiala had black eyes when sharing mental images, but they were not intimately aroused on any level in those situations.

And I don't see how that proves that Shepard had "anal" sex with Liara. It's only "anal" if she also has a vagina. In which case it would still be preferable to stick it in there, as there would be more "room" and it's more "elastic" due to being a birth canal, so it would at least be less uncomfortable for the asari. And I'm not even sure Shepard himself would want "cloacal" sex, if that's what you're referring to.

[Pwener2313]

This thread is so weird. Sorry had to drop by and say it.

[AlexMBrennan]

tmk wrote...
Right, so that whole time the poor asari didn't know what they were missing, until thousands of years later they finally discovered what they really like.

I'm sorry, but "exclusive attraction to females" is a meaningless attribute if everybody is female. Any useful hypothesis needs to be falsifiable; "pre-spaceflight asari were exclusively interested in females" is not (since there were, by construction, no males around)

[tmk]

Sentox6 wrote...
I think the question of the cultural disregard for purebloods and the apparent insistence upon relationships with other races is a valid point.

What I don't like is your insistence upon taking this interesting topic and trying to repurpose it as projection of human gender and sexuality.

Yea, well, here's the thing. The game doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's played by male adolescents. Who are likely to interpret the whole asari/male alien pairing thing as "women really just like to get laid by men. Even if they say otherwise, all you can really see is they hang out with men. Even when they try it with each other, it never lasts and never ends well. So all women really need in this life is a good old penis, even if they don't really realize it themselves".

Well, maybe not everyone who plays it will see it that harsh, but that's the gist of it. Sure it can be interesting to discuss some fictional details about some fictional culture in some rather poorly thought out fictional universe, but I find that topic to be rather inconsequential in comparison.

[Sentox6]

AlexMBrennan wrote...
I'm sorry, but "exclusive attraction to females" is a meaningless attribute if everybody is female. Any useful hypothesis needs to be falsifiable; "pre-spaceflight asari were exclusively interested in females" is not (since there were, by construction, no males around)

Trust me, you're wasting your time

tmk wrote...
Yea, well, here's the thing. The game doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's played by male adolescents. Who are likely to
interpret the whole asari/male alien pairing thing as "women really just like to get laid by men. Even if they say otherwise, all you can really see is they hang out with men. Even when they try it with each other, it never lasts and never ends well. So all women really need in this life is a good old penis, even if they don't really realize it themselves".

Now it just sounds like you're repurposing it as a projection of your own neuroses.

Modifié par Sentox6, 15 février 2011 - 12:38 .

[jlb524]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

tmk wrote...
Right, so that whole time the poor asari didn't know what they were missing, until thousands of years later they finally discovered what they really like.

I'm sorry, but "exclusive attraction to females" is a meaningless attribute if everybody is female. Any useful hypothesis needs to be falsifiable; "pre-spaceflight asari were exclusively interested in females" is not (since there were, by construction, no males around)

Doesn't matter...this does nothing to justify their design as being non-offensive.

Again, the issue is with the concept of the asari from a meta-perspective, which is what tmk and I are pointing out....this has nothing to do with anything in universe or the lore.

[tmk]

AlexMBrennan wrote...
I'm sorry, but "exclusive attraction to females" is a meaningless attribute if everybody is female. Any useful hypothesis needs to be falsifiable; "pre-spaceflight asari were exclusively interested in females" is not (since there were, by construction, no males around)

Pre-spaceflight asari weren't just a bunch of women isolated from men. They are a species that evolved to get by without males. You don't even see members of different species from the same planet being sexually attracted to each other a whole lot. Why in actual heck would asari suddenly become attracted to males, who are doubly alien to them?

[jlb524]

Sentox6 wrote...

Now it just sounds like you're repurposing it as a projection of your own neuroses.

No, he's pointing out unfair and potentially harmful representations of women/lesbians in a form of media.

[tmk]

Sentox6 wrote...
Now it just sounds like you're repurposing it as a projection of your own neuroses.

Now it just sounds like you've ran out of actual arguments and are starting to use thinly disguised ad-hominem attacks in lieu. Nice arguing with you I guess.

[AlexMBrennan]

Why in actual heck would asari suddenly become attracted to males, who are doubly alien to them?

I said that we cannot conclude that they were exclusively interested in females because we do not have any data (e.g. Alice (asari) is not interested in Bob(batarian)). However, that doesn't mean that we can conclude that they would be interested in males - that would be silly.

[Sentox6]

tmk wrote...
Now it just sounds like you've ran out of actual arguments and are starting to use thinly disguised ad-hominem attacks in lieu. Nice arguing with you I guess.

Ooh, ad hominem. U r teh smartz.

In actuality, I'm just suggesting you're over-sensitive to this issue, to the point that it's skewing your interpretation.

What I'd like to see is what concrete, ingame evidence you have. Since we're all going around in circles, list everything portrayed in the game that led you to these conclusions, and let's discuss that.

Modifié par Sentox6, 15 février 2011 - 01:12 .

[Xilizhra]

Well, this got explosive. I really have only one response:





We are ridiculously awesome.

[Sentox6]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, this got explosive.

You spawned this, so at the end of the day, it's really all your fault

[Xilizhra]

And I couldn't be happier.

[tmk]

Sentox6 wrote...
What I'd like to see is what concrete, ingame evidence you have. Since we're all going around in circles, list everything portrayed in the game that led you to these conclusions, and let's discuss that.

Let's discuss what? As I mentioned, all of three times that we see an asari paired with a female (or another asari), it doesn't end well. DA:O has the same trend. We can discuss it to death, it won't change anything unless Bioware takes note of this and tries to take some sort of corrective steps. In which case whatever we type here is also irrelevant.

Or do you want a listing of the asari paired with alien males so we can discuss how it's not sufficient proof of anything and everyone should just move along and ignore the issue?

[JaylaClark]

rynluna wrote...

Ericzio wrote...
Remember that they found out that the father brings benefitial traits as when an asari and an asari mate, nothing is gained, they try to gain something in mating, that doesn't mean that they don't find each other attractive anymore 

Nothing was "gained" when Benezia and Aethyta got together and made Liara, yet she turned out to be quite exceptional.   I've always thought the whole taking the traits from the father's species was ridiculous and just a lame excuse to justify why asari don't dig their own species much anymore.

Sentox6 wrote...

I'm just picking on your semantics. It
would be quite unusual to have a race that is only attracted to females
on the basis of their orientation.

It's not unusual to me and it was just something that I would not have minded seeing in a game.  I will take what I can get though and be satisfied that Liara in my game is only attracted to the female form and is in love with a lesbian.

While I'm impressed with the logic displayed by many people here, I think I'll declare this discussion over and award Rynnie 50 internets  (not that I'm any authority and not that I even mind people continuing discussing ).  Because in truth this is what it's all about to my eyes.  Liara's only ever been interested in Shepard, and that's probably canon across the board as of ME2.  So if Shepard is female, Liara's only interested in female human goodness.

To quickly add a few other points in before I disappear from this thread -- the Ardat-Yakshi problem is purely an excuse for those who make a big deal about the pureblood stigma, obviously.  If it was that common an occurrence with pureblood couples... the asari people couldn't possibly exist, could they?  They'd never have made it off of Thessia.  I think that a competent crew of writers will make it clear in the next DLC or ME3 that both of these are unreasonable prejudices.

Having said that, the current writing staff really did slack off to a great degree on the asari.  They had a few good shout-outs to Shepard and his/her relationship with Liara on Illium, but the fact that every single non-asari member of an asari union had a deep voice ... I don't blame Jen and Ryn for being offended.  While attraction doesn't work the same with asari, nor can it, from a meta-standpoint I find it annoying that in each game, as of LotSB, there is exactly one functioning asari/female alien couple in existence in the galaxy, and that's if the player is female and in a relationship with Liara.  (Though there's also the random mention of the human-centric reporter, and I've heard Emily Wong might have an asari gf, but I'm not sure where the evidence for that is.)

Well, that's my final two cents.

[Sentox6]

tmk wrote...
Or do you want a listing of the asari paired with alien males so we can discuss how it's not sufficient proof of anything and everyone should just move along and ignore the issue?

It's not ignoring an issue if said issue doesn't exist.

Frankly, I think that you're just interpreting the ridiculously small and absolutely non-conclusive sample in a way that suits you. Agree to disagree, I guess.

Also, I think you're being a bit too generous if you think the 'typical' adolescent male will even pay enough attention to reach the conclusions you're worried about.

rynluna wrote...
I've always thought the whole taking the
traits from the father's species was ridiculous and just a lame excuse
to justify why asari don't dig their own species much anymore.

Just a technicality, but the Asari don't actually take any traits from the father species.

Modifié par Sentox6, 15 février 2011 - 03:04 .

[AlphaDormante]

Okay, let me try and assess this from a meta-perspective viewpoint, since the other horse has been beaten, dismantled, and spread in a circle.

The argument is this: "I dislike the asari because they were designed as lesbians - except when there's actually males."

That statement alone is assumption, and I've never seen anyone manage to argue an assumption. We don't know what the designers were thinking.

Let's say they sat down one day and said hey, this species should be monogendered and have a rich sexual history where they were once able to mate with only each other, then slowly discovered that they could branch out to other species. Well, wait - logically, in order to support newborn offspring you need either mammary glands or regurgitation abilities. And we need to meet a LI quota, and I doubt anyone wants to romance someone who feeds their kids by puking into their mouths. Mammary glands it is. Lo and behold, asari.

Hell, maybe they were going to flip a coin between asari and a wookie rip-off.

We don't know why the asari turned out the way they did. Your assumption is possible. It's likely. But it's not confirmed, Word of God 100% true, and it seems to me that everyone needs to take a step back and stop looking for things to be offended by.

Modifié par AlphaDormante, 15 février 2011 - 04:16 .

[JediNg]

Indeed, OP. But don't ruin the fantasy with logic - JUST GO WITH IT.