450 réponses à ce sujet

[TheMarshal]

JaylaClark wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

To be honest, the fact that the asari were designed to possibly be attracted to human males or enjoy any kind of sex with them is ridiculous in the first place and somewhat offensive, considering they were practically 'lesbian' for thousands of years and had sex with only other female beings.

Understood completely... as I recall this objection was from a meta standpoint (though I'm not sure all males consider them to be Hollywood Lesbians, or 'bisexual lesbians' as Eric Bischoff once said wall-bangingly, there is the fact that if there's a visual component to their attraction, yes, there would be no reason to be attracted to a male silhouette).  The problem is, let's face it, lesbian sex as we understand it shouldn't do anything for asari either.  Tactical stimulation should probably make asari ticklish if anything.  And hair should squick an asari out regardless of gender.

I hate to say it, but if you look too deeply into this topic, you'll find that female Shepard may be as thoroughly disqualified from being attractive to an asari as male Shepard is.  It really depends on what is attractive to asari, and as I've said time and time again, we have no frame of reference that can be logically proven.

Well put!  I think that's one of the reasons why the idea of a male with an asari doesn't really bother me, as the asari seem to choose partners for reasons beyond mere physical appearances.  I have no idea what the asari anatomy is like, and I'm more than willing to wave my hands and say "it just works" when it comes to cross-species procreation.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Who's the *right crowd* anyway?

The one that will laugh at the joke.

[jlb524]

JaylaClark wrote...

Understood completely... as I recall this objection was from a meta standpoint (though I'm not sure all males consider them to be Hollywood Lesbians, or 'bisexual lesbians' as Eric Bischoff once said wall-bangingly, there is the fact that if there's a visual component to their attraction, yes, there would be no reason to be attracted to a male silhouette). 

It's a terrible trope...the 'lesbian' woman falls in love with a man and turns 'straight' by the end of the movie or TV show...b/c all women totally need a man, yo!

The asari epitomise this on a species level and I find it sickeningly offensive.

JaylaClark wrote...
The problem is, let's face it, lesbian sex as we understand it shouldn't do anything for asari either.  Tactical stimulation should probably make asari ticklish if anything.  And hair should squick an asari out regardless of gender.

I hate to say it, but if you look too deeply into this topic, you'll find that female Shepard may be as thoroughly disqualified from being attractive to an asari as male Shepard is.  It really depends on what is attractive to asari, and as I've said time and time again, we have no frame of reference that can be logically proven.

That's possible too, which means asari should just stick with other asari.  I still think it highly more likely that if they do go outside their species, they would go after a human female, given the similarities.

Also, keep in mind that the asari must have had a physical component to their sex when they were just having it with one another, and I would guess it is similar to tactical stimulation and 'lesbian sex', as you've stated.

[Sentox6]

jwalker wrote...
But you implied earlier this was the wrong crowd because the majority of posters in this thread are female. One can infer  then that you think the right crowd is male.

You're wrong.

Actually, saying the right crowd is male is quite plausible. It's saying males are the right crowd that would be fallacious.

jlb524 wrote...
It's a terrible trope...the 'lesbian' woman
falls in love with a man and turns 'straight' by the end of the movie or
TV show...b/c all women totally need a man, yo!

Luckily it's not used quite as blatantly as it once was. That being said...

The asari epitomise this on a species level and I find it sickeningly offensive.

You lost me there.

Modifié par Sentox6, 14 février 2011 - 07:26 .

[naledgeborn]

Damn if you people feel the need to berate the guy for his very poor taste in jokes do it through the PM. Let the people who were having an on-topic discussion continue.

[jwalker]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Who's the *right crowd* anyway?

That's what I'm curious about.... But he won't say....

[Ramirez Wolfen]

adneate wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
We are talking about a joke here. I know you are speaking figuratively, but still. Is it that bad that we have to drag this discussion on?

I guess so since you keep acting like a child with your hand in the cookie jar trying desperately to find any way to absolve yourself of the responsibility of your actions. Rather than acting like an adult and accepting that you've offended people and just apologizing for it.

I'm not apologizing. The people who called me a "******" and saying that I have problems should apologize. Seriously, grow up. Not everyone has the same sense of humor as you.

[Kronner]

jlb524 wrote...

I believe you are forgetting they had sex with only themselves for the greater portion of their species lifetime, before they made contact with the Salarians and others.  I also think their attraction to most non-human aliens is ridiculous too, minus human females and possibly quarian females, given their similarities to the asari.

You are entitled to your opinion, but it makes no sense. Just because males are different from females doesn't mean one female only likes other females. Not to mention asari are mono-gendered, so any talk about attraction to human females over males is ridiculous. I do understand you prefer femShep and everything connected to her, but that does not mean asari don't like or enjoy sex with males.

Modifié par Kronner, 14 février 2011 - 07:33 .

[jlb524]

Sentox6 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
It's a terrible trope...the 'lesbian' woman
falls in love with a man and turns 'straight' by the end of the movie or
TV show...b/c all women totally need a man, yo!

Luckily it's not used quite as blatantly as it once was. That being said...

The asari epitomise this on a species level and I find it sickeningly offensive.

You lost me there.

I find that trope offensive to women, especially lesbian women.  Looking at the asari over the lifetime of their species, they went from having sexual relations with only other asari (who, look like human women which makes those relationships aesthetically lesbian) to randomly deciding one day that they they would open up and have sex with maliens.  It doesn't help that 99% of couples involving asari shown in game have them paired with a malien....

You think given that they did have sex for thousands and thousand of years with just themselves and that they evolved this way, that they would only desire the feminine form....but, NOOOOOOO!  They look female so they must obviously be attracted to men too

...thus, the asari represent that offensive trope on a species level and their awful design reflects this.

[jlb524]

Kronner wrote...
You are entitled to your opinion, but it makes no sense. Just because males are different from females doesn't mean one female only likes other females. Not to mention asari are mono-gendered, so any talk about attraction to human females over males is ridiculous. I do understand you prefer femShep and everything connected to her, but that does not mean asari don't like or enjoy sex with males.

Are you attracted to males?  Are most human men attracted to other males?  It seems male humans evolved to be attracted to a certain type of body...why can't the same be said for asari?  Their being 'mono-gendered' has nothing to do with this.

I'm not sure why people are so against the existence of a race of female aliens that only like others that look like them....i.e., feminine body.  Oh wait...I do know...

[naledgeborn]

jlb524 wrote...

Sentox6 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
It's a terrible trope...the 'lesbian' woman
falls in love with a man and turns 'straight' by the end of the movie or
TV show...b/c all women totally need a man, yo!

Luckily it's not used quite as blatantly as it once was. That being said...

The asari epitomise this on a species level and I find it sickeningly offensive.

You lost me there.

I find that trope offensive to women, especially lesbian women.  Looking at the asari over the lifetime of their species, they went from having sexual relations with only other asari (who, look like human women which makes those relationships aesthetically lesbian) to randomly deciding one day that they they would open up and have sex with maliens.  It doesn't help that 99% of couples involving asari shown in game have them paired with a malien....

You think given that they did have sex for thousands and thousand of years with just themselves and that they evolved this way, that they would only desire the feminine form....but, NOOOOOOO!  They look female so they must obviously be attracted to men too

...thus, the asari represent that offensive trope on a species level and their awful design reflects this.

I partly agree. But how many years have Asari had contact with other races/genders? You see what I mean? It's not like "mailens" as you call them just popped up over night and the Asari are stampeading towards them. Like one of the posters said earlier if you start analyzing too much even FemShep/Liara stops making sense.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 14 février 2011 - 07:39 .

[Sentox6]

jlb524 wrote...
I find that trope offensive to women, especially lesbian women.  Looking at the asari over the lifetime of their species, they went from having sexual relations with only other asari (who, look like human women which makes those relationships aesthetically lesbian) to randomly deciding one day that they they would open up and have sex with maliens.  It doesn't help that 99% of couples involving asari shown in game have them paired with a malien....

You think given that they did have sex for thousands and thousand of years with just themselves and that they evolved this way, that they would only desire the feminine form....but, NOOOOOOO!  They look female so they must obviously be attracted to men too

...thus, the asari represent that offensive trope on a species level and their awful design reflects this.

As a race that's monogendered, I would think that the male/female division of other races would hold little relevance for them. It seems like you're projecting human psychology onto the Asari perspective.

The intended aesthetics and issue of Asari promiscuity is another matter. Although I don't see how an Asari being attracted to a male of another species is that much more far-fetched than a human being attracted to a drell or turian. Asari/Male female relationships should probably be more common; I would hazard a guess that males of other species are much more likely to find the Asari attractive and become involved than the females (after all, I believe there are presently more straight males than lesbian females in the human population).

Modifié par Sentox6, 14 février 2011 - 07:43 .

[JaylaClark]

jlb524 wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...

Understood completely... as I recall this objection was from a meta standpoint (though I'm not sure all males consider them to be Hollywood Lesbians, or 'bisexual lesbians' as Eric Bischoff once said wall-bangingly, there is the fact that if there's a visual component to their attraction, yes, there would be no reason to be attracted to a male silhouette). 

It's a terrible trope...the 'lesbian' woman falls in love with a man and turns 'straight' by the end of the movie or TV show...b/c all women totally need a man, yo!

The asari epitomise this on a species level and I find it sickeningly offensive.

I swear this is more and more a dead-horse trope, and thank God for that.  Hell, pornos don't even always go there anymore.  Whether by accident or not, the resemblance to that trope is unfortunate at best.

jlb524 wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...
The problem is, let's face it, lesbian sex as we understand it shouldn't do anything for asari either.  Tactical stimulation should probably make asari ticklish if anything.  And hair should squick an asari out regardless of gender.

I hate to say it, but if you look too deeply into this topic, you'll find that female Shepard may be as thoroughly disqualified from being attractive to an asari as male Shepard is.  It really depends on what is attractive to asari, and as I've said time and time again, we have no frame of reference that can be logically proven.

That's possible too, which means asari should just stick with other asari.  I still think it highly more likely that if they do go outside their species, they would go after a human female, given the similarities.

Also, keep in mind that the asari must have had a physical component to their sex when they were just having it with one another, and I would guess it is similar to tactical stimulation and 'lesbian sex', as you've stated.

Emphasis added, because again, we really don't know that -- plus I'm getting the feeling that our concepts of lesbian sex are slightly different... and your suppositions of the asari anatomy probably disqualifies a typical human's concept of lesbian sex... at least the targets are totally different .  Still, I will concede that the general idea makes as much sense as anything, that tactile stimulation is a part of the conception.

[adneate]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
I'm not apologizing. The people who called me a "******" and saying that I have problems should apologize. Seriously, grow up. Not everyone has the same sense of humor as you.

Somehow I don't think those people are the real problem.

[Kronner]

jlb524 wrote...

Are you attracted to males?  Are most human men attracted to other males?  It seems male humans evolved to be attracted to a certain type of body...why can't the same be said for asari? 

No, I am not. I am not member of mono-gendered species either.

jlb524 wrote...Their being 'mono-gendered' has nothing to do with this.

It has everything to do with it. Asari need new genetic material = they have sex with most other species, any gender.

jlb524 wrote...I'm not sure why people are so against the existence of a race of female aliens that only like others that look like them....i.e., feminine body.  Oh wait...I do know...

I am not sure why you actually think asari female is similar to human female when it comes to sexuality. By definiton, asari aren't and can't be lesbians.

Modifié par Kronner, 14 février 2011 - 07:46 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

adneate wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
I'm not apologizing. The people who called me a "******" and saying that I have problems should apologize. Seriously, grow up. Not everyone has the same sense of humor as you.

Somehow I don't think those people are the real problem.

Stop bringing this up on this thread. If you want to talk about it, PM me. I respect the people on this thread who are trying to keep it from getting locked. They want to talk about a legitimate subject. Let them.

[NICKjnp]

That question was awful. How do we know that Quarian's don't lay eggs or something similar. That said...they reference that it is the Asari brain frazzle that is love making for them (and other species). What I find incredibly offensive about the Asari (because of the many male fans on the site) is that they did not design them with Lesbian gamers in mind but rather for teenagers who think lesbians are cool. So to the little boys...Lesbians aren't attracted to you and they don't exist as a source of pleasure. That is one of the reasons I don't like the way the Asari are portrayed. They should make an all male species for Gay gamers if they are going to do that with the Asari.

[jlb524]

Sentox6 wrote...

As a race that's monogendered, I would think that the male/female division of other races would hold little relevance for them. It seems like you're projecting human psychology onto the Asari perspective.

I'm making these observations from a purely meta-perspective so of course I am.  I don't care about in game justifications for this troubling design.

Sentox6 wrote...
The intended aesthetics and issue of Asari promiscuity is another matter. Although I don't see how an Asari being attracted to a male of another species is that much more far-fetched than a human being attracted to a drell or turian. Asari/Male female relationships should probably be more common; I would hazard a guess that males of other species are much more likely to find the Asari attractive and become involved than the females (after all, I believe there are presently more straight males than lesbian females in the human population).

It's how the attraction is presented in context with the asari's species history...again...I'm looking at this from a pure out-of-game meta-perspective.

To be honest, I wish the asari were designed to just desire relations with themselves, and not go out of species at all.

[jlb524]

JaylaClark wrote...

I swear this is more and more a dead-horse trope, and thank God for that.  Hell, pornos don't even always go there anymore.  Whether by accident or not, the resemblance to that trope is unfortunate at best.

Well, it appears in Mass Effect on a species level...

[jeweledleah]

jlb524 wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...

Understood completely... as I recall this objection was from a meta standpoint (though I'm not sure all males consider them to be Hollywood Lesbians, or 'bisexual lesbians' as Eric Bischoff once said wall-bangingly, there is the fact that if there's a visual component to their attraction, yes, there would be no reason to be attracted to a male silhouette). 

It's a terrible trope...the 'lesbian' woman falls in love with a man and turns 'straight' by the end of the movie or TV show...b/c all women totally need a man, yo!

The asari epitomise this on a species level and I find it sickeningly offensive.

JaylaClark wrote...
The problem is, let's face it, lesbian sex as we understand it shouldn't do anything for asari either.  Tactical stimulation should probably make asari ticklish if anything.  And hair should squick an asari out regardless of gender.

I hate to say it, but if you look too deeply into this topic, you'll find that female Shepard may be as thoroughly disqualified from being attractive to an asari as male Shepard is.  It really depends on what is attractive to asari, and as I've said time and time again, we have no frame of reference that can be logically proven.

That's possible too, which means asari should just stick with other asari.  I still think it highly more likely that if they do go outside their species, they would go after a human female, given the similarities.

Also, keep in mind that the asari must have had a physical component to their sex when they were just having it with one another, and I would guess it is similar to tactical stimulation and 'lesbian sex', as you've stated.

1.  I don't think bioware is using that particular trope as Liara is not lesbian to begin with, she doesn't talk about her atraction to shepard from the physical appearance standpoint at all - she's atracted to his or her strength of will, the spirit, the personality, the inner beauty if you will.  when you talk to her about asari reproduction in generaly, they don't seem to focus on gender or species as much as the compatability of the personality.

2.  I'm not sure asari had physical componet to their relationship. I mean we don't know the exact history of their species and how they became sentient etc, but what we do know is that exposure to eezo was extrememly long temr, possibly the reason for them evolving into monogendered species reproducing via biotics in a first place.  I think that most asari would stick to other asari, at least for reasons other then procreation is the same as people sticking to other people from their own culture - easier to find comon ground and to relate to each other.

edited to add.  a human female atracted to asari probably has at least bi-sexual tendencies.  as gender has no meaning to asari - they are not lesbian or straight in a sence that we understand it.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 14 février 2011 - 07:51 .

[jlb524]

Kronner wrote...

No, I am not. I am not member of mono-gendered species either.

Again, what does 'mono-gendered' have to do with it. Even one-gendered species can evolve to prefer one gender, i.e., their own.

Kronner wrote...

It has everything to do with it. Asari need new genetic material = they have sex with most other species, any gender.

The asari do not take genetic material from their partners...another asari is just as capable of providing whatever is needed to trigger reproduction.

Kronner wrote...

I am not sure why you actually think asari female is similar to human female when it comes to sexuality. By definiton, asari aren't and can't be lesbians.

That...makes no sense. I don't think they are similar...that's what I'm arguing...thus I think it ridiculous they are attracted to men and should only be attracted to other asari. I'm calling that 'lesbian' as it is, aesthetically from our perspective. I guess 'technically' it wouldn't be, though.

I also think the 'definition' of asari is bogus/whack/offensive and this is what I'm contesting here.

[Sentox6]

JaylaClark wrote...

I swear this is more and more a dead-horse trope, and thank God for that.  Hell, pornos don't even always go there anymore.  Whether by accident or not, the resemblance to that trope is unfortunate at best.

Pornos that use that trope... well, I have only one thing to say:

jlb524 wrote...

Well, it appears in Mass Effect on a species level...

Frankly, I think Asari represent the Anything That Moves trope much better than the stereotype that every woman needs a man.

jlb524 wrote...

Again, what does 'mono-gendered' have to
do with it. Even one-gendered species can evolve to prefer one gender,
i.e., their own.

Sure, but the Asari have been in contact with other species for a decent period of time now.

Furthermore, in reality, humans are alone as a sentient species, and look how many people find Tali/Thane/Garrus attractive.

Modifié par Sentox6, 14 février 2011 - 07:56 .

[jlb524]

jeweledleah wrote...

1.  I don't think bioware is using that particular trope as Liara is not lesbian to begin with, she doesn't talk about her atraction to shepard from the physical appearance standpoint at all - she's atracted to his or her strength of will, the spirit, the personality, the inner beauty if you will.  when you talk to her about asari reproduction in generaly, they don't seem to focus on gender or species as much as the compatability of the personality.

I'm stating that the trope applies on a species level and not an individual level.  You (and others) also keep bringing up in-game justifications for this, while my critique is from a purely meta-perspective.  I have a problem with their original design, not in the ways in which this design was justified in the game's lore.

jeweledleah wrote...
2.  I'm not sure asari had physical componet to their relationship. I mean we don't know the exact history of their species and how they became sentient etc, but what we do know is that exposure to eezo was extrememly long temr, possibly the reason for them evolving into monogendered species reproducing via biotics in a first place.  I think that most asari would stick to other asari, at least for reasons other then procreation is the same as people sticking to other people from their own culture - easier to find comon ground and to relate to each other.

They seem to be a very sensual race to me.  I mean, if you are going to believe there's a physical component between asari/non-asari relations, it can be extrapolated to asari/asari relations as well.

Modifié par jlb524, 14 février 2011 - 07:56 .

[naledgeborn]

jeweledleah wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...

Understood completely... as I recall this objection was from a meta standpoint (though I'm not sure all males consider them to be Hollywood Lesbians, or 'bisexual lesbians' as Eric Bischoff once said wall-bangingly, there is the fact that if there's a visual component to their attraction, yes, there would be no reason to be attracted to a male silhouette). 

It's a terrible trope...the 'lesbian' woman falls in love with a man and turns 'straight' by the end of the movie or TV show...b/c all women totally need a man, yo!

The asari epitomise this on a species level and I find it sickeningly offensive.

JaylaClark wrote...
The problem is, let's face it, lesbian sex as we understand it shouldn't do anything for asari either.  Tactical stimulation should probably make asari ticklish if anything.  And hair should squick an asari out regardless of gender.

I hate to say it, but if you look too deeply into this topic, you'll find that female Shepard may be as thoroughly disqualified from being attractive to an asari as male Shepard is.  It really depends on what is attractive to asari, and as I've said time and time again, we have no frame of reference that can be logically proven.

That's possible too, which means asari should just stick with other asari.  I still think it highly more likely that if they do go outside their species, they would go after a human female, given the similarities.

Also, keep in mind that the asari must have had a physical component to their sex when they were just having it with one another, and I would guess it is similar to tactical stimulation and 'lesbian sex', as you've stated.

1.  I don't think bioware is using that particular trope as Liara is not lesbian to begin with, she doesn't talk about her atraction to shepard from the physical appearance standpoint at all - she's atracted to his or her strength of will, the spirit, the personality, the inner beauty if you will.  when you talk to her about asari reproduction in generaly, they don't seem to focus on gender or species as much as the compatability of the personality.

2.  I'm not sure asari had physical componet to their relationship. I mean we don't know the exact history of their species and how they became sentient etc, but what we do know is that exposure to eezo was extrememly long temr, possibly the reason for them evolving into monogendered species reproducing via biotics in a first place.  I think that most asari would stick to other asari, at least for reasons other then procreation is the same as people sticking to other people from their own culture - easier to find comon ground and to relate to each other.

edited to add.  a human female atracted to asari probably has at least bi-sexual tendencies.  as gender has no meaning to asari - they are not lesbian or straight in a sence that we understand it.

You raise a good point. This would seem to be the case on Asari dominated or Asari-only worlds. On places like the Citadel where the population is pretty much a melting pot you'd see more Asari/non-Asari pairings.