450 réponses à ce sujet

[Sable Phoenix]

NICKjnp wrote...

And the wiki was designed by fans...not the writers.  So don't quote it if you want to make a point.

The wiki takes the passage directly from the Codex entry in the game.  The part I quoted is word for word.

[Kronner]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

1) You are judging their looks.  Here is your quote with some highlighted words for your convenience:

Kronner wrote...
Funny, they do not look 'aesthetically lesbian' to
me at all. They are aliens, so I do not compare them to humans just
based on their looks.

You say they do not look aesthetically lesbian because you don't judge them just on looks.
How can you use anything but looks to judge how something looks?

I do not see them as a race of female lesbians, unlike some other people in this thread.

Just because their looks are similar to human females does not mean I am gonna give the asari all other human characteristics = I am not judging asari mind and sexuality based on their looks (similarity to human female).

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
2) Asari + other species being better than asari + asari is not a simple fact.  It's not a fact of any kind.  the codex says all evidence of that is anecdotal.  And the presence of the ardat yakshi condition in very few numbers of purebloods does not make cross-species mating better.  That's like saying all black people should mate with white people because there once was an instance of a genetic defect developing in the child of two black parents.  Saying one's "better" than the other in any way is stupid.

That is just not true. AY is not the only genetic defect asari have. It is the worst (of those that are known), so using just common sense if A + A can result in AY, but A + B can't, A + B is the better choice (more effective). That is not even arguable.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

jlb524 wrote...
Okay, here we go....

I don't like that the asari are designed to be attracted to any species b/c it introduces the 'Every Woman Needs a Man' trope.  Again, they spent the majority of their species' history mating with just themselves.   I think this should have continued, but noooo!!   The writers introduced this ridiculous design element stating that they decided one day other asari weren't good enough and they must go out looking for something 'better'....and this produces  a lot of asari/malien sexing.

So what if in ME3 we will finally see female turians/salarians/batarians etc. and see Asari that are paired with a female from another species, would that fix the problem?

I don't think so, because the whole "pureblood" thing would still be there. Unless Bioware retconned it.

[NICKjnp]

Ummm...I don't ever remember seeing that in the codex. And you are talking to the Morinth (the only in game Ardat-Yakshi) fan group leader.

[jlb524]

jeweledleah wrote...

Jib, I think you just want asari to feel the same way about relationships as humans do and have specific sexual preferences, ie - to be lesbian. too cheesy and one dimensional IMO.

So the other species are cheesy and one-dimensional?  Turians?  Krogan?

jeweledleah wrote...

its not every woman needs a man trope.  its not even close.  plenty of asari mate once and then raise their children alone.  asari are perfectly capable of having relationships with BOTH genders, just becasue we don't see every single possible combination doesn't mean its neither posible nor exists (possible exception being Krogan women, mostly becasue they are rarer and tend to stick to tuchanka for safety, but even then - we know that krogan women can be barren and as such - its not inconsevable that they will head out into space as mercenaries)

It is that trope if you look at it on a larger, species scale and not on the level of an individual asari...then it wouldn't be that trope necessarily and would depend on the individual asari.

[Sentox6]

jlb524 wrote...

Okay, here we go....

I don't like that the asari are designed to be attracted to any species b/c it introduces the 'Every Woman Needs a Man' trope.  Again, they spent the majority of their species' history mating with just themselves.   I think this should have continued, but noooo!!   The writers introduced this ridiculous design element stating that they decided one day other asari weren't good enough and they must go out looking for something 'better'....and this produces  a lot of asari/malien sexing.

It also introduces a lot of asari/femalien sexing as well.

The Asari have never had to forms norms of gender interaction like other races. Aesthetic preferences, yes, but nothing deeper. So when exposed to other races, the male/female distinction is irrelevant, because it has never held relevance to the Asari to begin with.

From the other races' perspectives, though, there is a correlation between aesthetics and gender; so the Asari are deemed to be female, and sexual orientation comes in to play. Hence why you would expect to observe more Asari/Malien relationships in practice than Asari/Femalien (it takes two to tango).

As for the Asari themselves being more attracted to females of other races by way of familiarity; perhaps, but then again human females are the only ones that are noticeably similar to the Asari in appearance, and they're relative newcomers.

Really, you can raise much more valid objections over whether the Asari just exist as male fanservice. That's just my opinion though.

Modifié par Sentox6, 14 février 2011 - 08:45 .

[Errationatus]

Nevermind.

Lesbians, blah, blah, gay, blah, blah, irrelevancy, irrelevancy, lesbian yatter, yatter, lol, them like dicks, lolo!!11!  Asari have boobies, lesbians, lesbians, pointless digressions about lesbians, lesbians, lesbians, harhar, me like asari boobies, lesbians, asari lesbians, men suck, men are evil, lesbians, blah, blah.


Should be more in line with the thread as a whole now.

EDIT:

Lesbians.

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 14 février 2011 - 11:29 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Kronner wrote...
1) I do not see them as a race of female lesbians, unlike some other people in this thread.

Just because their looks are similar to human females does not mean I am gonna give the asari all other human characteristics = I am not judging asari mind and sexuality based on their looks (similarity to human female).

2) That is just not true. AY is not the only genetic defect asari have. It is the worst (of those that are known), so using just common sense if A + A can result in AY, but A + B can't, A + B is the better choice (more effective). That is not even arguable.

1) Do you not know what "aesthetically" means?

2) Yes, that is arguable.  Ardat Yakshi are perfectly capable beings.  They have a defect that is not their fault, but it does not prevent them from living a perfectly functional life.  And this is not a study of how asari social norms dictate how to handle an ardat yakshi; this is a question of simple biology.

[jeweledleah]

having a lesbian blue babe is cheesy, sorry.



and I'm still not seeing how its "every woman needs a man" trope as asari don't actually need men. they don't even need other species to procreate, they just prefer it at this point. they don't have to stay with fathers of their children, in fact they have developed a lot of emotional defense mechanisms due to not sharing lifespans with most of their children's fathers (and I use a term father loosely, it doesn't imply gender in case of asari) Asari are perfectly content on their own, they don't need men to be complete. they chose to engage in inter species relationships...some of the time



and I thought I was touchy...

[Kronner]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

1) Do you not know what "aesthetically" means?

What part of my  previous post do you not understand?
Asari and human female = similar looks (from what we have seen; they might not have similar genitalia)

That is no reason to make asari similar to human females in any other area = I am not judging asari based on their looks. I can't make it any clearer.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
2) Yes, that is arguable.  Ardat Yakshi are perfectly capable beings.  They have a defect that is not their fault, but it does not prevent them from living a perfectly functional life.  And this is not a study of how asari social norms dictate how to handle an ardat yakshi; this is a question of simple biology.

It is not. AY kill other people unless restrained, and they can't procreate . That is a simple biology.

You are basically arguing that 0,999 is more than 1,000.

Modifié par Kronner, 14 février 2011 - 08:53 .

[Sentox6]

rynluna wrote...
A female species that are only attracted to lesbians would have been nice.

I'm not even sure where to begin with the psychology of a race that is only attracted to females who exclusively like the same gender, rather than being attracted to females in general

[jeweledleah]

I think having a lesbian only LI would be lovely, just as having a gay only guy LI. but the entire species? I"m not so sure about that one.

[Sable Phoenix]

NICKjnp wrote...

Ummm...I don't ever remember seeing that in the codex. And you are talking to the Morinth (the only in game Ardat-Yakshi) fan group leader.

It's in the ME1 Codex.  It may not be in the ME2 Codex, I'm not sure because I only read the new entries in that one, not the stuff transferred over from 1.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Kronner wrote...
What part of my  previous post do you not understand?
Asari and human female = similar looks

That is no reason to make asari similar to human females in any other area = I am not judging asari based on their looks. I can't make it any clearer.

It is not. AY kill other people unless restrained, and they can't procreate . That is a simple bilogy.
You are basically arguing that 0,999 is more than 1,000.

Oh, gods.

Okay, I'll go over this point by point.  You said asari do not look aesthetically lesbian.  Asari look exactly like humans.  Therefore an asari with another asari or an asari with a human female IS AESTHETICALLY LESBIAN BY DEFINITION.  Hence why I asked if you knew what aesthetically meant.  You can't say it doesn't look lesbian because you don't judge asari by only their looks.  In this case you can not judge anything but their looks.

Also, killing people is not a guarantee of AY, and not being able to procreate is a common occurrence for many reasons.  I know some infertile people, and I do not deem them any lesser than people who are fertile.

you're judging the AY and by extension asari+asari relationships by your personal preferences on what you think is better, hence there are no facts.

[tmk]

From the in-character perspective, you could explain the lack of female/asari pairings by the lack of interest from the non-asari females. I mean, sure, asari themselves may be more attracted to human women, but it doesn't necessarily mean that all human women would automatically reciprocate.



Of course the real reason is that from the meta perspective, the writers don't want to start another crapstorm over advertising gay relationships in their games. But then, as mentioned above, the whole asari species are kinda hard to see without applying meta-perspective, so yeah... unfortunately...

[Sentox6]

It still mystifies me that the perceived gender roles of relationships creates more discussion (or at least more controversy) than the inter-species aspects.

Perhaps because it's more grounded in reality and we therefore have a lot more preformed perceptions to draw from. I don't know.

Modifié par Sentox6, 14 février 2011 - 08:56 .

[jlb524]

jeweledleah wrote...

having a lesbian blue babe is cheesy, sorry.

Oh, thanks...that's not offensive to lesbians in any way...

But of course, having hetero aliens is not cheesy at all!!

jeweledleah wrote...
and I'm still not seeing how its "every woman needs a man" trope as asari don't actually need men. they don't even need other species to procreate, they just prefer it at this point. they don't have to stay with fathers of their children, in fact they have developed a lot of emotional defense mechanisms due to not sharing lifespans with most of their children's fathers (and I use a term father loosely, it doesn't imply gender in case of asari) Asari are perfectly content on their own, they don't need men to be complete. they chose to engage in inter species relationships...some of the time

Prefer it, need it, doesn't matter what you call it.  The fact remains that they started out enjoying soo many years only having sex with themselves. and I don't see why ithe writers couldn't keep it that way.  Similar to the 'lesbian' character in bad movies who was written to start liking men out of the blue.   Why?  The similarities are there.

[NICKjnp]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

Ummm...I don't ever remember seeing that in the codex. And you are talking to the Morinth (the only in game Ardat-Yakshi) fan group leader.

It's in the ME1 Codex.  It may not be in the ME2 Codex, I'm not sure because I only read the new entries in that one, not the stuff transferred over from 1.

The Ardat-Yakshi are not in the ME1 Codex.

[jeweledleah]

its not about hetero species being cheesy - asari are skirting the edges of sexy blue babe far too closely as it is, adding gender preferences into it would be cheese and yes, offensive, so I'm glad they are not.

sigh. asari didn't start enjoy "men" out of the blue. it wasn't number of years it was number of asari generations, at least a few centuries. they enjoy other species, both men and women. because of the nature of their procreative abilities, they have discovered that they can actually have children with species they enjoy. I guess its an offensive crime.

edited to add - from wiki
HistoryEdit
The asari were the first contemporary race to achieve space-flight and discover the mass relays. When they found the Citadel in around 580 BCE, the asari also encountered the keepers,
whose mute assistance enabled them to quickly settle on the station and
learn how to operate its systems. Sixty years later, the salarians made first contact with them, and together the two species agreed to found the Council.
The asari continued their exploration. In around 200 BCE, the
asari made first contact with the elcor and played a key role in their
ascension into the galactic community. It is known that they were
charting the Gorgon system at some point in Earth's 17th century.


asari were interacting with other species for several millenia.  out of the blue indeed

Modifié par jeweledleah, 14 février 2011 - 09:04 .

[jlb524]

jeweledleah wrote...

its not about hetero species being cheesy - asari are skirting the edges of sexy blue babe far too closely as it is, adding gender preferences into it would be cheese and yes, offensive, so I'm glad they are not.

That makes zero sense and seems a bit discriminatory.

jeweledleah wrote...
sigh. asari didn't start enjoy "men" out of the blue. it wasn't number of years it was number of asari generations, at least a few centuries. they enjoy other species, both men and women. because of the nature of their procreative abilities, they have discovered that they can actually have children with species they enjoy. I guess its an offensive crime.

Try to look at this from a higher level perspective (a purely meta one)....

Don't bring up any in game 'facts' to justify your argument.

[tmk]

jlb524 wrote...
Prefer it, need it, doesn't matter what you call it.  The fact remains that they started out enjoying soo many years only having sex with themselves. and I don't see why ithe writers couldn't keep it that way.  Similar to the 'lesbian' character in bad movies who was written to start liking men out of the blue.   Why?  The similarities are there.

Well... Some would always be more curious than others. The asari share sensations during melding, so with judicious application of lube, they would still get some pleasure out of it through the partner, and maybe even get a kick out of it being "unusual". The proportion is kinda skewed though, but with enough social pressure you can convince people that it's fashionable enough that the majority would do it.

Of course both reasons for the pressure against asari/asari pairings are pulled out of some random place, that's for sure. Meta-perspective...

Modifié par tmk, 14 février 2011 - 09:08 .