309 réponses à ce sujet

[Sajuro]

You have a problem with Mass Effect 2's story and want to complain in the forums about hard it is to play? As my dad would say

[Breakdown Boy]

ME2 has won so many GOTY awards it's almost crazy.



Dude, if you can't enjoy this game after owning it for only 10 days, then I feel sorry for you.

[Thompson family]

MajesticJazz wrote...


Again, it is only "been done to death" and becomes a problem if it is something negative against Bioware, ME2, or ME in general. But yet nobody complains about the positive threads towards Bioware/ME2 that "has been done to death".

OK.

I, Thompson Family, do hearby formally complain about all the fanboy worship threads on this forum.

Now,will both sides please find something else to talk about?

EDITED PS.

All right; Joking aside, I've been a member of this forum ever since ME2 came out. I've checked it more days than I've missed it, and for a long time after the game came out, checked it every day. Same thing after every DLC release.

The claim that fanboys run this forum or that negative arguments don't get respect because of bias -- rather than the fact they have been "done to death" -- is patently absurd.

These arguments got respect as long as their was any imaginable chance they might change the direction of the game's development.

That is simply no longer plausible. ME3 is set to come out later this year. Before that happens, there's going to be a major DLC. And BioWare's going to have to make a PS3 version too.

This cake is in the oven, folks. Maybe BW did put all that stuff back in. I'd be amazed, but it's possible, I suppose.

Either way, this train has left the station. ME3 is taking shape as we type -- and I wouldn't bet on them changing it back to a formula that, at best, was no more successful commercially and was substantially less successful critically than the form that the game is in now.

Modifié par Thompson family, 17 février 2011 - 06:59 .

[Sajuro]

Thompson family wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...


Again, it is only "been done to death" and becomes a problem if it is something negative against Bioware, ME2, or ME in general. But yet nobody complains about the positive threads towards Bioware/ME2 that "has been done to death".

OK.

I, Thompson Family, do hearby formally complain about all the fanboy worship threads on this forum.

Now,will both sides please find something else to talk about?

http://www.banklawyersblog.com/.a/6a00d8341c652b53ef010535ce3c64970c-800wi
Welcome to the internet, no one is ever satisfied, ever.

[Thompson family]

You have a point, Sanjuro.

[TuringPoint]

meh

Modifié par Alocormin, 17 février 2011 - 07:39 .

[eldav]

So you say that i should be burnd for heresy if i dislike playing a space psychologist ?

And the lack of intelligent is what people are ****ing about.

[Femlob]

Oh hey, it was moved here.

I'm sure the residents here are just thrilled with the opportunity to once again explain the withertos and whyfors-- guys?

Uh, guys?

[AkiKishi]

Then don't play it. I had ME1 from around the time ME2 was released and finally got around to playing it a couple of months ago. I'd never play it again unless paid, because outside of the "plot" planets it's a generic piece of trash.

[Bourne Endeavor]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

I'm sorry OP this is the best you can get appearntly these guys here
think that Mass Audiance appeal is much more important then a good
story.

Do you really want me to go into detail about how sick and tired I am of hearing this BS about ME2 being stupid and shallow? Because I'll write a damn essay about it.  ME2's overachring plot was lackluster, I'll admit, but give me enough time in front of a keyboard and I will gladly explain to you the parts where the writing kicked supreme ass.

For now, be satisfied with the beluga whale. It's cute.

If you do that perhaps I should kick start my rewrite of the entire ME2 plot in a summarized form.

[AkiKishi]

Obadiah wrote...

The game-play in ME2 was better than ME1. Fix the story and get away from this you're-so-awesome-we'd-spend-two-gazillion-dollars-resurrecting-you silliness, and I'll be happy.

They had to introduce some plot element that justified re-writing you from your previous ME incarnation. In ME1 they just set the cap too high and made too many fundamental errors in design. In Baldurs Gate , they introduced some overpowered stuff and as a consequence you started BG II naked in prison so they could get it off you.

In both cases it could have been avoided with some thought. But in BG's case it was a pretty awsome  plot hook , not so much in ME2.

[Babli]

Therefore_I_Am wrote...
Think of it this way: If sovereign never transfered all of his power into Dead Saren, he would not have been beaten at all.

Assumption. We dont know that for sure. It could be just coincidence for dramatic effect.

This would not have been the case with the human reaper. Plus it would just pop into the citadel within seconds without warning, unlike in ME1 when everyone was prepared. You don't like giant human-looking machines, even though it's suppose to be human in likeness? (If you say it's too generic I'm going to reach through the computer monitor and slap you!)

Again, you are assuming...that Collectors would abduct enough humans. But they would never stood a chance against big colonies or Earth with that one ship of theirs. These planets have good protection provided by Alliance. And Alliance was already investigating it, so they would blow up really soon.

Considering the IFF thing, that's simply Shepard's unforseen mistake. Then again, if you haven't noticed, he ALWAYS takes the entire team with him when he goes on missions.

No.
Its cleary stated, that "this time" Shep needs to take his whole team with him. "This time" sure does not sound like something thats being done repeatedly. What about Jack´s loyalty? I see only three people in the shuttle. So no, this was just very stupid moment in game that could be done in many ways that could be believeable and more cool. As I said, we could go on Citadel, get some drinks, see squadmates interact with each other, have a good time...it would make good atmoshpere..and right after that we would see abduction of our crew..that would be more dramataic and mainly unexpected.

I do agree about the static crew... But it was the same in ME1. Maybe for good reason, like glitches or whatever.

No. Squadmates always had to say something on big decisions in ME1. And there were elevators scenes. If squadmates interacted at least like this or like squad in DA:O, ME 2 would be twice as awesome.

You couldn't contact Admiral Hackett nor Wong because they had no information... .

They didnt have any information about what was happening in the galaxy while Shep was dead? Really?

[Femlob]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

The game-play in ME2 was better than ME1. Fix the story and get away from this you're-so-awesome-we'd-spend-two-gazillion-dollars-resurrecting-you silliness, and I'll be happy.

They had to introduce some plot element that justified re-writing you from your previous ME incarnation. In ME1 they just set the cap too high and made too many fundamental errors in design. In Baldurs Gate , they introduced some overpowered stuff and as a consequence you started BG II naked in prison so they could get it off you.

In both cases it could have been avoided with some thought. But in BG's case it was a pretty awsome  plot hook , not so much in ME2.

The Normandy's destruction in ME2 didn't only serve to allow the player to recreate a Shepard from scratch (or to alter him/her in the case of an imported save game). It also served to:

- set up the Collectors, who were hitherto unknown, as antagonists;
- write previously planned characters into the plot, and give credence to their appearance;
- give characters destined for vital roles in ME3 a valid reason to leave Shepard's employ.

Whether or not something constitutes an "awesome" plot hook is personal preference; for as far as functionality is concerned, it did a good job.

Additionally, saying "it could have been avoided with some thought" implies that BioWare didn't plan for this; which, considering the fact that Mass Effect was designed to be a trilogy from the start, seems unlikely.

Modifié par Femlob, 17 février 2011 - 01:43 .

[AkiKishi]

Femlob wrote...

The Normandy's destruction in ME2 didn't only serve to allow the player to recreate a Shepard from scratch (or to alter him/her in the case of an imported save game). It also served to:

- set up the Collectors, who were hitherto unknown, as antagonists;
- write previously planned characters into the plot, and give credence to their appearance;
- give characters destined for vital roles in ME3 a valid reason to leave Shepard's employ.

Whether or not something constitutes an "awesome" plot hook is personal preference; for as far as functionality is concerned, it did a good job.

Additionally, saying "it could have been avoided with some thought" implies that BioWare didn't plan for this; which, considering the fact that Mass Effect was designed to be a trilogy from the start, seems unlikely.

I was refering to the "being dead" bit. The others could have easily been accomplised without having to die. Being reset, requires something  more extreme like death.

Functional is an accurate assesment.

You would think that... But having made  the first game with a level 60 cap which maxed out almost every skill, they really had no where left to go. Worst thing is, they have done the same thing again. Although in the ME2 system I do see some room for "growth" of another 30 levels so I'm not certain the will do a re-set again.
Having to do so twice in 3 games would be incredibly poor design.


Compare to how the Baldurs Gate Trilogy was designed.

BG+ expansion was level 8-9 BG II was around 20 and TOB the final game capped at 40.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 17 février 2011 - 02:28 .

[Slayer299]

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

Whose to say the Collectors won't hit those colonies? They would even target Earth, which was the sudden revelation Shepard had while in the collector ship. Seeing that they can knock out automated defense systems and ships with an effortless EMP-like pulse, it's not unbelievable.

Who said they wouldn't try? I'm saying that the CC would get its butt kicked by the SA navy. Because if an un-upgraded Large Frigate could destroy the CC, what was going to keep the CC vs several SA Cruisers? And what EMP weapon are you talking about? Because if the CC had such a weapon why didn't they use it against the SR2 when it attacked?

It's also not unbelievable for shep to pack everyone in the normandy shuttle; the normandy can take care of itself (most of the time) and poses no security risk given that it has stealth and anti-detection of all sorts... Consider it a form of comaradie to have all of his teammates close to him most of the time.

Why isn't it unbelievable? Other than Bekenstein what other planet did Shep visit without the SR2? And Bekenstein seemed to be a special case where they weren't leaving the Serpent Nebula and showing up with a Large Frigate might send off warning signals to Hock. .

I meant that Hackett and Wong have no information on the Illusive Man or Cerberus because they wouldn't and couldn't know. The Illusive man's dodgy nature, when it comes to identity and whereabouts,  runs parallel to that of the shadow broker. Unless they put this in a DLC or ME3, the Illusive Man will remain... well... illusive. : p

K.

[Therefore_I_Am]

Babli wrote...

You couldn't contact Admiral Hackett nor Wong because they had no information... .

They didnt have any information about what was happening in the galaxy while Shep was dead? Really?

Regarding the illusive man, no, they didn't have information. Anderson and Hackett were the first to know when Shepard came back from the dead... They didn't have the information of the illusive man's whereabouts or else they'd have told Shepard already, and it would create another option of which Shepard can assassinate the illusive man.
You have to look at it from Shepard's paragon angle... Cerberus is the only group of people out there that are doing something about the Reapers. If cerberus never brought shepard back to life, or if shepard was not attacked in the first place, than all humans in the terminus system would've been doomed. So it would make more sense for shepard to *use* Cerberus to his advantage... and finally get vengeance on the illusive man at the end of the game (even more satisfying from a Sole Survivor PoV).

Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 17 février 2011 - 02:42 .

[FlyinElk212]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

@Fixers0: I'll probably cover the parts that sucked, too, since they bug me as well.  I'd be fooling myself if I said I never came close to ragequitting.

Then again, I had a lot of those moments in ME1 as well *coughBENEZIA'SDEATHSCENEcough*

THANK YOU.

Fact of the matter is, neither of Mass Effect's stories are "good". People can more easily poke holes into Mass Effect 2's plot, thus understandably making its story weaker, but I've never understood the hype over Mass Effect 1's "great plot".

All Bioware games' stories aren't that great, truth be told- how could it, when there are so many variables to consider? Instead, their strength lies in their STORYTELLING, how exactly the story unfolds. In THIS aspect, I believe Mass Effect 1 gets a big nod over 2 (there's a myriad of sidestories in 2 that don't add to the overall plot, making them seem little more than filler and obligatory crew bonding scenes), but really, in base story concepts, Mass Effect 1 isn't that much better than 2.

ME1- Commander Shepard hunts down a vigilante Spectre and stumbles upon the knowledge that the Reapers, a sentient half-machine half-life race, plan to continue an age-old cycle to wipe out all civilization as we know it.

ME2- Commander Shepard dies, but is resurrected, forcing him to align with long-known enemy Cerberus to defeat the newest threat to humanity: the Collectors. Cerberus suggests a quick strike to their main base, located in the center of the galaxy- a task that can only be considered a suicide mission.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 17 février 2011 - 02:41 .

[AkiKishi]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Fact of the matter is, neither of Mass Effect's stories are "good". People can more easily poke holes into Mass Effect 2's plot, thus understandably making its story weaker, but I've never understood the hype over Mass Effect 1's "great plot".

I'm totally torn between the Deus Ex Machina of ME1 and the stupidity of the Human smoothie fed T-800. I keep telling myself It can't get any worse.

Dragon Age gives me hope.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 17 février 2011 - 02:42 .

[Therefore_I_Am]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

@Fixers0: I'll probably cover the parts that sucked, too, since they bug me as well.  I'd be fooling myself if I said I never came close to ragequitting.

Then again, I had a lot of those moments in ME1 as well *coughBENEZIA'SDEATHSCENEcough*

THANK YOU.

Fact of the matter is, neither of Mass Effect's stories are "good". People can more easily poke holes into Mass Effect 2's plot, thus understandably making its story weaker, but I've never understood the hype over Mass Effect 1's "great plot".

All Bioware games' stories aren't that great, truth be told- how could it, when there are so many variables to consider? Instead, their strength lies in their STORYTELLING, how exactly the story unfolds. In THIS aspect, I believe Mass Effect 1 gets a big nod over 2 (there's a myriad of sidestories in 2 that don't add to the overall plot, making them seem little more than filler and obligatory crew bonding scenes), but really, in base story concepts, Mass Effect 1 isn't that much better than 2.

ME1- Commander Shepard hunts down a vigilante Spectre and stumbles upon the knowledge that the Reapers, a sentient half-machine half-life race, plan to continue an age-old cycle to wipe out all civilization as we know it.

ME2- Commander Shepard dies, but is resurrected, forcing him to align with long-known enemy Cerberus to defeat the newest threat to humanity: the Collectors. Cerberus suggests a quick strike to their main base, located in the center of the galaxy- a task that can only be considered a suicide mission.

...and yet you are a fan of ME? *looks at FlyingElk212's avatar*
I'm surprised that, if anyone would whine about the stories of ME, it would happen on this forum. Seems like the entire minority of naysayers have made their home here.
To be honest, those types of views are next to null when brought into the heart of the fanbase.

Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 17 février 2011 - 03:39 .

[Babli]

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

Babli wrote...

You couldn't contact Admiral Hackett nor Wong because they had no information... .

They didnt have any information about what was happening in the galaxy while Shep was dead? Really?

Regarding the illusive man, no,

I wasnt talking about Illusive Man. There is much more in the Galaxy then Cerberus.

[Thompson family]

Femlob wrote...

Oh hey, it was moved here.

I'm sure the residents here are just thrilled with the opportunity to once again explain the withertos and whyfors-- guys?

Uh, guys?

Good one.

[AkiKishi]

Therefore_I_Am wrote...
...and yet you are a fan of ME? *looks at FlyingElk212's avatar*
I'm surprised that, if anyone would whine about the stories of ME, it would happen on this forum. Seems like the entire minority of naysayers have made their home here.
To be honest, those types of views are next to null when brought into the heart of the fanbase.

You know that saying ." In the kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is king" ? 

Ask yourself really what alternatives are there ? How many space based RPGs have you seen lately besides what Bioware is doing and outside of Japan ?

Even if ME is horribly flawed, it's not like there are alternatives,especially with a big budget.

Also if you don't express faults, then they may never get fixed. Which happens quite a lot between games. KZ 3(D) still has the same "heavy feel" but the response zone is 10 times better. That's because the devs listened to what people had to say.

[Obadiah]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

The game-play in ME2 was better than ME1. Fix the story and get away from this you're-so-awesome-we'd-spend-two-gazillion-dollars-resurrecting-you silliness, and I'll be happy.

They had to introduce some plot element that justified re-writing you from your previous ME incarnation. In ME1 they just set the cap too high and made too many fundamental errors in design. In Baldurs Gate , they introduced some overpowered stuff and as a consequence you started BG II naked in prison so they could get it off you.

In both cases it could have been avoided with some thought. But in BG's case it was a pretty awsome  plot hook , not so much in ME2.

The devs would have been well served in completely ignoring the change in game-mechanics in the plot (or just give poeple that imported a character from ME1 level 1 in their respective powers so they could still use those that translated).

But the change in ME2 wasn't just for the game mechanics. The 2-gazillion thing is indicative of the extreme stroking that the plot does to the player all over the game. It's... just... silly.

[Therefore_I_Am]

Obadiah wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

The game-play in ME2 was better than ME1. Fix the story and get away from this you're-so-awesome-we'd-spend-two-gazillion-dollars-resurrecting-you silliness, and I'll be happy.

They had to introduce some plot element that justified re-writing you from your previous ME incarnation. In ME1 they just set the cap too high and made too many fundamental errors in design. In Baldurs Gate , they introduced some overpowered stuff and as a consequence you started BG II naked in prison so they could get it off you.

In both cases it could have been avoided with some thought. But in BG's case it was a pretty awsome  plot hook , not so much in ME2.

The devs would have been well served in completely ignoring the change in game-mechanics in the plot (or just give poeple that imported a character from ME1 level 1 in their respective powers so they could still use those that translated).

But the change in ME2 wasn't just for the game mechanics. The 2-gazillion thing is indicative of the extreme stroking that the plot does to the player all over the game. It's... just... silly.

No it isn't. It gives your character value and worth in the plot. Without it, what's the point of creating Shepard the Savior anyway?

[Obadiah]

Therefore_I_Am wrote...
...
No it isn't. It gives your character value and worth in the plot. Without it, what's the point of creating Shepard the Savior anyway?

That's my point. The "Shepard the Savior" is a dumb/lazy plot device (though apparently not dumb enough to be excluded from ME2).

Modifié par Obadiah, 17 février 2011 - 05:24 .