309 réponses à ce sujet

[ObserverStatus]

marshalleck wrote...
Here's how it works. Think of ME2 not as the sequel to ME1, which was slapped in the face and is now curled up in the corner silently weeping. ME2 is the prequel to ME3, both of which will only tangentially be related to the first game. 

ME1 ----------- ME2 ME3

cool story bro

[Veex]

OP, if you wouldn't mind, could you give us some examples of how Mass Effect 1 was thought provoking and intellectual for you? Just a couple of examples of themes or instances from the game that you think Mass Effect 2 is lacking, and maybe we can help identify if there are some similar aspects to ME2.

[Shotokanguy]

Personally, I struggle to go through Mass Effect again. Knowing the streches of messy combat and barren planet exploring that await me makes it hard.

[Nozybidaj]

Chewin3 wrote...

You know, threads like this are just stupid. "ME1 is better than ME2 'cause blah blah blah...".
Yes, it's your opinion, well good for you. Just don't come here and cry and make my day

Yes, we only allow positive and glowing opinions of the game on this forum.  That is how you get better, by ignoring your deficiencies.

[C9316]

This thread is still beating a dead horse I see....

[Iakus]

marshalleck wrote...

Here's how it works. Think of ME2 not as the sequel to ME1, which was slapped in the face and is now curled up in the corner silently weeping. ME2 is the prequel to ME3, both of which will only tangentially be related to the first game. 


ME1 ----------- ME2 ME3

I have three theories about the direction ME 3 will go.  That is the second of the three, and imo the most likely one.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

If in fact ME 3 connects everything in a way that's not a total contrivance, I will be mightily impressed.  But given that we can see 2/3 of the pieces right now, I suspect huge swathes of both ME 1 and ME 2 are in fact going to be rendered pointless and irrelevant.  Exhibit A  being Feros.

Hmmm.... in BG most of BG1 was irelevant when you reached BG2, and most of BG2 was irrelevant when you reached ToB. This didn't bother me; did it bother you?

[AlanC9]

As for the OP, this obviously isn't trolling. Words have meaning, people, and we need to reserve "troll" for someone with malicious intent. The worst that you can say about the post is that it's poorly thought-out and includes wildly overblown rhetoric. That nonsense about scanning being a punishment isn't mean to be taken seriously.

[Rune-Chan]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Chewin3 wrote...

You know, threads like this are just stupid. "ME1 is better than ME2 'cause blah blah blah...".
Yes, it's your opinion, well good for you. Just don't come here and cry and make my day

Yes, we only allow positive and glowing opinions of the game on this forum.  That is how you get better, by ignoring your deficiencies.

Again you choose to conveniently ignore what people are actually saying.

Criticising Mass Effect 2 and giving reasons why, and I mean actual godamn reasons, not vague BS like "It's not as intellectual" is not worth discussing.

If you have a problem with any aspect of either game, then say what it is, say what you think works better and how to improve it.

Let me give an example:

"In Mass Effect 1 you docked at stations or were dropped off in the Mako, when you wanted to go somewhere else you either went back to the Normandy to leave the area, or went into the Mako and asked for pick-up.

I like this because it creates a sense of immersion and doesn't break up the game-play. It was also enhanced by having squad briefings with your entire team and the option of discussing the mission with them as well as the Council.

In Mass Effect 2 this was changed to missions finishing at the press of a button and us magically appearing back aboard the ship while in orbit (regardless of whether or not we even wanted to leave the planet/station we were on) and the missions were summarised in a "Mission Complete" statement.

I did not like this because it kills immersion and makes the missions seem almost episodic rather than a single continued story. It also seems a little strange that regardless of whether or not you are pro or anti Cerberus the only people involved in mission briefings are Jacob, Miranda and occasionally Mordin, along with whoever the person being recruited may have been. I think the whole squad briefing worked better in ME1 as it created a sense of you being part of a team and gives you the option to either assert your authority or allow your team to speak their minds."

Not hard is it?

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 14 février 2011 - 09:22 .

[Ahglock]

AlanC9 wrote...

As for the OP, this obviously isn't trolling. Words have meaning, people, and we need to reserve "troll" for someone with malicious intent. The worst that you can say about the post is that it's poorly thought-out and includes wildly overblown rhetoric. That nonsense about scanning being a punishment isn't mean to be taken seriously.

While it isn't a punishment, it is seriously one of the worst things I've seen in a game in years.  It is one of the reasons I think the review scores were way too good.  It seems odd to me to rate something 5 out of 5 when in your review you mention how incredibly boring scanning is and that task takes up like 1/5th the game unless it is your second play through or you have a good ME1 import and then it is like 1/7th the game.  BEST GAME EVER PERFECT well except for 20% of the game where I would rather drive a nail through my hand than do again.  The only reason I played ME2 more than once is because of things like gibbed save editor.  Now without scanning, it is a farking awesome game and I'm at close to 300 hours of game play. 

As for people ****ing about the OP, ****** off.  Guess what this is a discussion board, and people will like come to the board to discuss things about the game.  Not every damn post has to meet some debate standards, you can just come to say I hated X, Y and Z. 

Also OP find gibbed save editor, it really changes the game once you no longer have to pay attention to scanning.  Just go to planets and it you detect an anomaly scan for the sometimes cool side missions.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

If in fact ME 3 connects everything in a way that's not a total contrivance, I will be mightily impressed.  But given that we can see 2/3 of the pieces right now, I suspect huge swathes of both ME 1 and ME 2 are in fact going to be rendered pointless and irrelevant.  Exhibit A  being Feros.

Hmmm.... in BG most of BG1 was irelevant when you reached BG2, and most of BG2 was irrelevant when you reached ToB. This didn't bother me; did it bother you?

Nope

Because Baldur's Gate 2 was not the second volume of a single story.  Sarevok was not "just a vanguard"  who's threat is virtually ignored for most of the second game.  That threat was dealt with.  TIme to move on to other adventures.  Which is precisely what happened.  BG2 was a whole new adventure featuring your character.   What's more, you're character is crucial to the story by virtue of being a Bhaalspawn.  Not because "you're a symbol" or "you represent...something..."

Same withThrone of Bhaal:  Irenicus and Bodhi are dealt with.  Time to find really big fish to fry.  The stories are all linked via the bhallspawn taint.  But it's not all the same story.  Though I suppose TOB does link back to BG 1 a bit through the whole "New lord of murder" thing.

Comparing ME 2 to Baldur's Gate, a more accurate comparison would be more like trying to pass off Tales of the Sword Coast as a true BG 2

[SalsaDMA]

Seriously guys, try and take a look at the threads he are creating and add that he hasn't registered games on his account.



Do you really need more proof that he is just someone that is bored and gets by with trolling as he can?

[Cadaver19]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Seriously guys, try and take a look at the threads he are creating and add that he hasn't registered games on his account.

Do you really need more proof that he is just someone that is bored and gets by with trolling as he can?

Ever think that some of us are just super lazy?

[JrayM16]

Cadaver19 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Seriously guys, try and take a look at the threads he are creating and add that he hasn't registered games on his account.

Do you really need more proof that he is just someone that is bored and gets by with trolling as he can?

Ever think that some of us are just super lazy?

Emphasis on the "threads he's creating" part.  He spent a thread trying to convince us  that it's renegade to keep the research from Mordin's loyalty quest because it apparently justifies torture.  When we disagreed he basically said we were bad people and he was trying to show us the error of our ways.  Nuff said.

[AlanC9]

Ahglock wrote...
I think the review scores were way too good.  It seems odd to me to rate something 5 out of 5 when in your review you mention how incredibly boring scanning is and that task takes up like 1/5th the game unless it is your second play through or you have a good ME1 import and then it is like 1/7th the game.

I don't quite check your numbers there. My last playthrough showed about 2 hours mining, total. Maybe 2-1/2 since I figure some mining happened when I looked for N7 missions.

Still too much mining. Bio really shouldn't try to implement exploration gameplay -- they're not very good at it.

[Stupidus]

Cadaver19 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Seriously guys, try and take a look at the threads he are creating and add that he hasn't registered games on his account.

Do you really need more proof that he is just someone that is bored and gets by with trolling as he can?

Ever think that some of us are just super lazy?

I'd like to think anyone who hasn't registered their games pirated them and should be banned from posting on the forums until able to do so but hey that's just like......my opinion mang.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...
Because Baldur's Gate 2 was not the second volume of a single story.  Sarevok was not "just a vanguard"  who's threat is virtually ignored for most of the second game.  

Huh? ME2 is about stopping a Reaper plot. Saying that we're ignoring it is the same thing as saying that BG2 ignores Irenicus when we head out to Trademeet.

As for the general point, you specifically mentioned making Feros irrelevant as a problem, so I thought you were talking about specifics, not the overall plot. I'm guessing here... you mean that we should have been finding and deciphering yet more Prothean beacons and databases in ME2?

Modifié par AlanC9, 14 février 2011 - 10:38 .

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Huh? ME2 is about stopping a Reaper plot. Saying that we're ignoring it is the same thing as saying that BG2 ignores Irenicus when we head out to Trademeet.

As for the general point, you specifically mentioned making Feros irrelevant as a problem, so I thought you were talking about specifics, not the overall plot. I'm guessing here... you mean that we should have been finding and deciphering yet more Prothean beacons and databases in ME2?

In a way, you may very well be ignoring Irenicus by going to Trademeet.  Unless of course you go there to get the money to advance the plot.  However, such content is optional otherwise.  ME 2 you can't help but ignore the Collectors save when TIM tells you it's okay to go fight them.

My point about Feros is that it's a substantial chunk of the main storyline for ME 1.  It's almost like the Collector Ship mission getting cut out of the ME 2 transfer to ME 3.

I couldn't say if looking for more beacons and data archives would definitely make a better story (though I do think it would have been better than what we were given).  While I do think the Collectors were cool as a concept.  I just wish they were better implemented, and ME 2 was somehow better tied into ME 1, rather than replacing it.

[MassEffect762]

@OP

Yup. You're not the only one who feels that way, hopefully Bioware does something about it.

I dunno, maybe I'm just getting too old for this S__t.(danny glover)

Modifié par MassEffect762, 15 février 2011 - 01:33 .

[Cadaver19]

Yeah beacause everyone who hasn't registered is certainly a pirate. The amount of derision that stems from these forums is absurd, and makes me really regret that I am associated with you in any fashion, even if it is only interest based.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...
In a way, you may very well be ignoring Irenicus by going to Trademeet.  Unless of course you go there to get the money to advance the plot.  However, such content is optional otherwise.  ME 2 you can't help but ignore the Collectors save when TIM tells you it's okay to go fight them.

It isn't ignoring them. It's not having any way to get at them. just as you don't have enough money to get to Spellhold until you raise some. Jeez, iakus, you know better than that.

My point about Feros is that it's a substantial chunk of the main storyline for ME 1.  It's almost like the Collector Ship mission getting cut out of the ME 2 transfer to ME 3.

Cut out? Strange way to put it. It just assumes that the Collector Ship should be in ME3. I don't see any reason why that should be referenced in ME3 either. It's something that happened, but what of it?

I guess I'm asking you a question you can't really answer.

Modifié par AlanC9, 15 février 2011 - 02:09 .

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...
In a way, you may very well be ignoring Irenicus by going to Trademeet.  Unless of course you go there to get the money to advance the plot.  However, such content is optional otherwise.  ME 2 you can't help but ignore the Collectors save when TIM tells you it's okay to go fight them.

It isn't ignoring them. It's not having any way to get at them. just as you don't have enough money to get to Spellhold until you raise some. Jeez, iakus, you know better than that.

???

"Unless of course you go there to get the money to advance the plot"

"However, such content is optional otherwise" (bolded for emphasis) As in, went to D'Arnise Keep, Windspear, Umar Hills, etc. instead

My point about Feros is that it's a substantial chunk of the main storyline for ME 1.  It's almost like the Collector Ship mission getting cut out of the ME 2 transfer to ME 3.[./quote]

Cut out? Strange way to put it. It just assumes that the Collector Ship should be in ME3. I don't see any reason why that should be referenced in ME3 either. It's something that happened, but what of it?

I guess I'm asking you a question you can't really answer.

Perhaps.  I chose that particular mission semirandomly, since that's where the Reveal happens.  Of course, given there's only five main story missions (including the SM) it's not like there's a whole lot to choose from

Modifié par iakus, 15 février 2011 - 02:09 .

[Evil_Weasel]

MajesticJazz wrote...

Again, this is exactly what I'm talking about. What I do not get is, if a thread has been brought up many times or if a thread really annoys you....then why waste your time on it and reply? Obviously the thread was relevant enough for you to literally have you go out and find some snarky image and post it in this thread. Maybe I do not have a 5-year old comprehension, but what exactly is that supposed to accomplish? There are MANY threads here that I either do not like or just are irrelevant to me, so I just leave them to be and post in threads that I have some interest in.

Not that what I said is going to change anything but what can you expect?

Im not sayin anyone is a troll, but offten.... when a picture comes up with a condesending indication is posted it is usely retreved from the my pictures section of that persons computer. You see they keep these pictures around, and offten patroll..... I mean look for oportunities to use pictures becouse they ..... may or may not be seeking attention (aka troll food).

But to clarify they are not going out of their way or anything, see your thread was on their way to "Anoying everyone on the Internet," so now you know next time it happens.

As to the OPs sentiments, I too was disipointed with what I didnt get in ME2, but have come to terms with what ME2 is and simply enjoy it for what it does. Yes, the plot is razor thin, and I have posted a color coded plot chart were story happens and were the majority of the game occurs (building the team). While ME1 was more devoted to the main plot, but in ME2 most things happen to set up an action gun fight. Shepard meets no new party members without fighting his/her way to them (cept DLC charactrs) and gains no loyaltiy without fighting for it (cept Samara's).

Parts of ME2 are great and all, but largly it tries to get by on "great action" with the dialog revolving around the reasons for the current altercation as opposed to revolving around what we just learned about our enemy and how we can use this to furthor our goals; generaly these conversations occur with Shepard and TIM, and not very offten.

I like ME2 and recently bought the Alternate Appearenc packs 1&2 and intend to play the game again soon, but I will say that it is much shallower than ME1, were ME2 improved on fighting/shooting it regressed on dialog/story.

Modifié par Evil_Weasel, 15 février 2011 - 02:50 .

[Blue_dodo]

comment removed...I will no longer post in these threads 

Modifié par Blue_dodo, 15 février 2011 - 02:54 .

[Femlob]

I think I can see where the OP is coming from. I experienced a similar cultural shock when I first fired up Mass Effect 2; nothing felt familiar, very few things were still the way they used to be in the original Mass Effect. In sharp contrast to the OP, though, I went the exact opposite way.

Allow me to adress the two points I think I gathered from the OP's post:

Mechanics
Having beaten both games several times, I can no longer motivate myself to go back to the first game for one simple reason: the often lauded, yet critically flawed inventory system. I was annoyed with it back when I first played the game, and I'm still annoyed with it today - even more so, really, considering Mass Effect 2's fluid handling of new equipment (although I'll be the first to admit that I would have liked to have seen some more gear, too).

We all love loot; loot is good. But if you cut your looting teeth on games like Diablo, there is no way you'll ever find Mass Effect's handling of looting anywhere near acceptable. You essentially have to memorize the equipment of all of your characters, or write it all down; for each time you collect an item, you have to add it to your inventory in order to figure out if it's something you can use. Which clogs up your inventory, which in turn forces you to either omni-gellify junk gear or visit a merchant on a way too regular basis - a slow process, since adequate scrolling speed is apparently limited to PCs.

In a game that places so much emphasis on story, sandbagging a player with a lousy inventory and so forcing him or her to put the story on hold every ten minutes in order to deplete said lousy inventory and make room for more loot is a great way to discourage curiosity. Sure, one could argue that you don't have to pick everything up - but that kind of defeats the purpose of having loot to begin with, doesn't it?

And really - one would argue that scanning barren planets is somehow worse than driving around on them? I don't really know how to respond to that... If nothing else, scanning is a lot faster - leaving more time for the story.

Story
I've often read that Mass Effect 2 doesn't have much of a story beyond recruiting characters and making them loyal. I find this surprising, since there's very little difference between the stories of Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 from a purely structural perspective. Start game, get acquainted, clear four major hurdles, defeat last boss, victory tune.

Eden Prime equals Freedom's Progress; Feros, Noveria, Virmire and Ilos equal Horizon, Derelict Reaper, Ancient Reaper and Collector Base; Saren equals Reaper Embryo. One can argue in favor of either story based on personal preference, but to say that there is more story in Mass Effect as opposed to Mass Effect 2 is complete bullocks.

Where Mass Effect 2 differs from its predecessor is in its attention to the characters you get to work with. Not only do you get more characters, but they all get their chance to shine, their fifteen minutes of fame if you will - an integral part of a story that focuses more on emotional connection and relationships (platonic or not) than on destroying the Evil Synthetic Army led by the Big Bad Dude who's mind-controlled by an even Bigger Badder Thing. I jest, of course - but where the focus of the first game was entirely on destroying a galactic threat, this still existing galactic threat takes something of a backseat in the second game in favor of explaining exactly what motivates the game's primary characters to fight.

It's a focus not often seen in modern video games, considerably more adult-oriented, and reminds me of the cultural shock induced by Final Fantasy XII's highly political character... Regardless, it is far less easy to comprehend and thus easily mistaken for something it's absolutely not - lacking in depth and enticement. You just have to be willing to appreciate it.