6813 réponses à ce sujet

[mesmerizedish]

Dendens wrote...

Aah. Buffy. In New Zealand they're replaying it from the very beginning. I'm glad they got my letters. Buuuuuut anyway. Back to topic.

How ridiculous would it have been to have Willow have the choices of Buffy, or Anya, or Dawn, or any of the slayertobe's they all end up with at the end. Sexuality does not define a person, but it does influence them, especially in a story telling medium. Sexuality can be an incredibly compelling story telling tool if used correctly.  IMO Willow's relationship with Tara would have been cheapened if all the girls were getting it on together. She had to come to terms with the consequences this came with.

That's different, and it's not what I meant. What I mean is that Willow was the same person when she was with Oz as she was when she was with Tara. That's my point, that whichever way an LI swings, (s)he's the same character. Being able to move forward in as sizeable a plot as a romance (which are probably the biggest non-mainplot threads) whether the player character is male or female doesn't cheapen the character.

I'm still saying that the way it should be handled is NOT to say that "everyone is bi." That's just a convenient tagline. What I'd actually like to see in game is that Merrill (should I choose to pursue a romance with her) is gay. If I choose to pursue Anders, he's straight. If I play a male character, the reverse would be true. That's what I mean... within a single game, Anders can be straight. I just want the option for him to be gay in MY game.

If someone's not cool with that idea (and I'm not talking about you at all), then it becomes an issue of person A having a problem with the way person B is playing, and that's just not cool.

[Dendens]

Ryzaki wrote...

Dendens wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Also I find it amusing how we can mold characters in other ways (make someone soft/harden change their views on far more important things) but their sexuality should be set in stone and never-ever-ever-ever be subject to change.

Even if these views are what made them the person they are to begin with. 

Really I find that odd but then again I'm not usually pro-changing people to begin with. 

I agree, but I don't think you should be able to change everybody

Neither do I. 

I would have loved a little:


Male Warden: Alastiar, would you like to join me in my tent

Alastair: Ahh...no thanks, I think I'll pass on that. With all these dreams I keep thrashing around in my sleep. I think it's better if I sleep over here...heh.

Male Warden: Thrashing hmm? Well if you change your mind, I've got this lovely batch of cheese.

Alastair: Cheese you say? What kind........

<3:wub:

[The Ethereal Writer]

monstertrucks wrote...

Gross. Merrill looks like she's too young to be romanced. Seriously, she looks like she's fifteen and Hawke's like thirty. Paedophillic much?

Okay wait am I looking at the wrong picture here or is there like a young and older version of her? I am confused

you could always make your Hawke NOT look like a thirty year old pedophile. just saying

[The Ethereal Writer]

lilliful wrote...

LiaraShepard wrote...

@ishmaeltheforsaken Hey, sorry for questioning you but I haven't read the whole statements yet. Why do you think every character is romancable for both genders? It seems very unkiley to me, because Bioware's about to continue the way they chose in Dragon Age origins. (4 Characters are romancable, two of them male, two female). Last time, women could get into a relationship with the innocent Leliana. Now it's the complete opposite with Isabela. Just the male ones will get a new elve again I think. Maybe it's easier for Bioware to make elves bi without making people angry. But that's just speculation. We don't know anything, do we? As for me, I would be very glad so see everyone as a bisexual. I always missed that part in DA:O.

Everyone is bi. Even Merrill. Especially Merrill. We know because of our learnings.

Wait.... EVERYONE?! Even Dog?! *waves hands in the air in crazy manner of frustration* OH things are just getting out of hand now!!

[Dendens]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Dendens wrote...

Aah. Buffy. In New Zealand they're replaying it from the very beginning. I'm glad they got my letters. Buuuuuut anyway. Back to topic.

How ridiculous would it have been to have Willow have the choices of Buffy, or Anya, or Dawn, or any of the slayertobe's they all end up with at the end. Sexuality does not define a person, but it does influence them, especially in a story telling medium. Sexuality can be an incredibly compelling story telling tool if used correctly.  IMO Willow's relationship with Tara would have been cheapened if all the girls were getting it on together. She had to come to terms with the consequences this came with.

That's different, and it's not what I meant. What I mean is that Willow was the same person when she was with Oz as she was when she was with Tara. That's my point, that whichever way an LI swings, (s)he's the same character. Being able to move forward in as sizeable a plot as a romance (which are probably the biggest non-mainplot threads) whether the player character is male or female doesn't cheapen the character.

I'm still saying that the way it should be handled is NOT to say that "everyone is bi." That's just a convenient tagline. What I'd actually like to see in game is that Merrill (should I choose to pursue a romance with her) is gay. If I choose to pursue Anders, he's straight. If I play a male character, the reverse would be true. That's what I mean... within a single game, Anders can be straight. I just want the option for him to be gay in MY game.

If someone's not cool with that idea (and I'm not talking about you at all), then it becomes an issue of person A having a problem with the way person B is playing, and that's just not cool.

But she isn't the same person. She goes through the hardships of having to decide if she is truely what she wants, realizing that it is, and having to come out to her friends. That's what makes it such a strong story line. And the same goes for Bioware.

These characters are not  defined by their sexuality, but it does play a part. Zevran's bisexuality comes into conversation (I'm not going to comment on how I liked/disliked Zevran as a character). As well as Leliena. Her conversations with Morrigan would have been different if everyone was bi.

But I'm arguing a moot point. I'm seeing your arguement was not what I thought it was. More "hawkesexual" then bisexual, no?

I don't have such a problem with that, but I still think that bioware would be missing out on an incredible story telling experience if they chose that route

[HolyJellyfish]

@Dendens



Buffy isn't an RPG. RPGs function differently. You play the main role, and indirectly or directly influence your party. There is no canon story. People change depending on the decisions you make. Harden Alistair, he becomes king. Don't harden him, and he happily runs away with you never to be king because he didn't want to.

[mesmerizedish]

Dendens wrote...

...

I don't have such a problem with that, but I still think that bioware would be missing out on an incredible story telling experience if they chose that route

I disagree... the only opportunity I see BioWare missing out on is the opportunity to say "Gotcha!" to the player. "Haha, I'll bet you really liked Anders, huh? Too bad, he's for teh ladiez only." Given everything else going on with Anders's character, I don't think that his rejection of you because you're a guy is really the greatest story ever told.

I'm sorry if I seem obtuse about it... I'd love to hear what storytelling you think would be served by closing off a romance path, and I'm not being snide. Sincerity is hard to convey over the internet, and it's something that I get hung up on a lot, so I'm just gonna stop typing now, okay? Okay

[Dendens]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

@Dendens

Buffy isn't an RPG. RPGs function differently. You play the main role, and indirectly or directly influence your party. There is no canon story. People change depending on the decisions you make. Harden Alistair, he becomes king. Don't harden him, and he happily runs away with you never to be king because he didn't want to.

Right. In the same way that you cannot convince Wynne to side with the templars, I believe that not all characters should be romancable to all genders. Wynne is not defined as a mage. She is a woman, a fereldan and a mother.

Story telly conventions work surprisingly well across multiple mediums

[The Ethereal Writer]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

LiaraShepard wrote...

*snip*

Why they're all bi:

Chris Priestly wrote...

...

You can choose to romance:
Isabela
Fenris
Merrill
Anders
 
...

So, if you are
romantically inclined during your Dragon Age 2 playthroughs, you now
know who you can pursue. Pitch your woo accordingly. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png
...

This is a post that's "open to interpretation," because the information isn't printed in ALLCAPSBOLD. But, it's a tacit confirmation of "they're all bi." Mr. Priestly says "You can choose any of these." Not, "You can choose any of these, gender permitting." "Pitch your woo accordingly," he says, not "Pitch your woo and hope that the orientation works out."

I think that his is a very carefully worded post. If the romances were constrained by gender, it would be worded very differently. That Mr. Priestly says what he does is a confirmation for those of us astute enough and brave enough not to need it spelled out for us.

In addition, there's this post by a forumite, quoting a pre-release review of the game (emphasis mine):

Rabenstein wrote...

...

... DA2's romantic options are unconstrained. You meet a party member chances are you can bone them
(your sibling is an fortunate exception) Male, female, amalgamation of human and spirutal manifestation of justice, all are fair game....

...

Though the reviewer isn't the most mature member of the journalistic community (bone them? really? only fans get to talk like that. it's a review, be professional), the substance of the quote is quite clear.

So, that's why they're all bi. Rather, that's how we know they're all bi. A lot of people, whether through fear of disappointment or just pure negativity (*cough*Maelora*cough*), are not satisfied with this evidence. Indeed, many refuse to even step across the line of "Okay, it seems like it MIGHT be true." Somehow, some folks are happier believing that all we gays get is Kelly Chambers.

I don't understand those people.

It's all right there, folks. Ignore if you'd like, but you'll be tarred and feathered in my "I Told You So" thread when the game's released.

I'll admit that's a convincing argument and I can see it maybe being possible. However its not the best. Personally I don't want to see it be an all bi scenario, but if it is I won't throw a tantrum. I'll make the best of it. Make an ugly ass Hawke and get in their pants or panties.

Random Side Note: Who would like to be my friend on here? I'm so lonely .....

[MorningBird]

Dendens wrote...

But she isn't the same person. She goes through the hardships of having to decide if she is truely what she wants, realizing that it is, and having to come out to her friends. That's what makes it such a strong story line. And the same goes for Bioware.

But... the situation you've described isn't purely restricted to gays and bis in love... it's a scenario that can happen to ANYONE who suddendly falls in love.

Boy meets girl.

Boy goes through the hardships of having to decide if girl is what he wants.

Realizing that he's in love, boy confesses his love to friends.

Is this storyline less powerful because it's straight love? xD

Edit: for typos.

Modifié par MorningBird, 19 février 2011 - 03:42 .

[mesmerizedish]

MorningBird wrote...

Dendens wrote...

But she isn't the same person. She goes through the hardships of having to decide if she is truely what she wants, realizing that it is, and having to come out to her friends. That's what makes it such a strong story line. And the same goes for Bioware.

But... the situation you've described isn't purely restricted to gays and bis in love... it's a scenario that can happen to ANYONE who suddendly falls in love.

Boy meets girl.

Boy goes through the hardships of having to decide if girl is what he wants.

Realizing that he's in love, boy confesses his love to friends.

Is this storyline less powerful because it's straight love? xD

Edit: for typos.

Yeah, Xander and Cordy. That "coming out" was probabaly more dramatic than Willow's

[The Ethereal Writer]

MorningBird wrote...

Dendens wrote...

But she isn't the same person. She goes through the hardships of having to decide if she is truely what she wants, realizing that it is, and having to come out to her friends. That's what makes it such a strong story line. And the same goes for Bioware.

But... the situation you've described isn't purely restricted to gays and bis in love... it's a scenario that can happen to ANYONE who suddendly falls in love.

Boy meets girl.

Boy goes through the hardships of having to decide if girl is what he wants.

Realizing that he's in love, boy confesses his love to friends.

Is this storyline less powerful because it's straight love? xD

Edit: for typos.

MY GOD MAN, that was the most dramatic and powerful story I've ever read. It moved me to shed a single tear!






haha just messing around. I'm such an a-hole sometimes

[TheShadowWolf911]

sorry if this has been answered already but does only Hawke get to romance party members? or can romances between 2 party members that does not include Hawke occur?

[HolyJellyfish]

Dendens wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

@Dendens

Buffy isn't an RPG. RPGs function differently. You play the main role, and indirectly or directly influence your party. There is no canon story. People change depending on the decisions you make. Harden Alistair, he becomes king. Don't harden him, and he happily runs away with you never to be king because he didn't want to.

Right. In the same way that you cannot convince Wynne to side with the templars, I believe that not all characters should be romancable to all genders. Wynne is not defined as a mage. She is a woman, a fereldan and a mother.

Story telly conventions work surprisingly well across multiple mediums

Sexuality shouldn't influence those conventions if they are an LI because it is an RPG and one of the main reasons they are a love interest is because it may impact the story in a BIG way (Morrigan, Alistair, etc) and why should anyone who is S/S inclined be denied that story?

Its optional. you choose to ignore it or not or play it a different angle, knowing you are willing to make that sacrifice so that other people can benefit.

[MorningBird]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

MY GOD MAN, that was the most dramatic and powerful story I've ever read. It moved me to shed a single tear!






haha just messing around. I'm such an a-hole sometimes

IKNOWRITE?  I SHOULD GET PAID FOR THIS LITERARY GOLD.

[moilami]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

LiaraShepard wrote...

*snip*

Why they're all bi:

Chris Priestly wrote...

...

You can choose to romance:
Isabela
Fenris
Merrill
Anders
 
...

So, if you are
romantically inclined during your Dragon Age 2 playthroughs, you now
know who you can pursue. Pitch your woo accordingly. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png
...

This is a post that's "open to interpretation," because the information isn't printed in ALLCAPSBOLD. But, it's a tacit confirmation of "they're all bi." Mr. Priestly says "You can choose any of these." Not, "You can choose any of these, gender permitting." "Pitch your woo accordingly," he says, not "Pitch your woo and hope that the orientation works out."

I think that his is a very carefully worded post. If the romances were constrained by gender, it would be worded very differently. That Mr. Priestly says what he does is a confirmation for those of us astute enough and brave enough not to need it spelled out for us.

In addition, there's this post by a forumite, quoting a pre-release review of the game (emphasis mine):

Rabenstein wrote...

...

... DA2's romantic options are unconstrained. You meet a party member chances are you can bone them
(your sibling is an fortunate exception) Male, female, amalgamation of human and spirutal manifestation of justice, all are fair game....

...

Though the reviewer isn't the most mature member of the journalistic community (bone them? really? only fans get to talk like that. it's a review, be professional), the substance of the quote is quite clear.

So, that's why they're all bi. Rather, that's how we know they're all bi. A lot of people, whether through fear of disappointment or just pure negativity (*cough*Maelora*cough*), are not satisfied with this evidence. Indeed, many refuse to even step across the line of "Okay, it seems like it MIGHT be true." Somehow, some folks are happier believing that all we gays get is Kelly Chambers.

I don't understand those people.

It's all right there, folks. Ignore if you'd like, but you'll be tarred and feathered in my "I Told You So" thread when the game's released.

I'll admit that's a convincing argument and I can see it maybe being possible. However its not the best. Personally I don't want to see it be an all bi scenario, but if it is I won't throw a tantrum. I'll make the best of it. Make an ugly ass Hawke and get in their pants or panties.

Random Side Note: Who would like to be my friend on here? I'm so lonely .....

Lol I can be your friend.

[HolyJellyfish]

EDIT: PM'd

Modifié par HolyJellyfish, 19 février 2011 - 03:56 .

[The Ethereal Writer]

MorningBird wrote...

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

MY GOD MAN, that was the most dramatic and powerful story I've ever read. It moved me to shed a single tear!






haha just messing around. I'm such an a-hole sometimes

IKNOWRITE?  I SHOULD GET PAID FOR THIS LITERARY GOLD.

Apply to Bioware! lol




Actually, that would be a great place for me to cultivate my writing skills, but almost everyone on here is a writer, and would dream and drool at the opportunity to work for Bioware, so yea.... wouldn't EVAR HAPPEN, me getting a job there.

*starts sobbing uncontrollably in fetal position and sulks in corner*

[Inzhuna]

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...

sorry if this has been answered already but does only Hawke get to romance party members? or can romances between 2 party members that does not include Hawke occur?

We don't know this for certain yet, but my guess is no.

[Dendens]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Dendens wrote...

...

I don't have such a problem with that, but I still think that bioware would be missing out on an incredible story telling experience if they chose that route

I disagree... the only opportunity I see BioWare missing out on is the opportunity to say "Gotcha!" to the player. "Haha, I'll bet you really liked Anders, huh? Too bad, he's for teh ladiez only." Given everything else going on with Anders's character, I don't think that his rejection of you because you're a guy is really the greatest story ever told.

I'm sorry if I seem obtuse about it... I'd love to hear what storytelling you think would be served by closing off a romance path, and I'm not being snide. Sincerity is hard to convey over the internet, and it's something that I get hung up on a lot, so I'm just gonna stop typing now, okay? Okay

You can stop typing, I'm certainly not going to:lol:

You say that you want to be able to have meriil straight in one playthrough, Gay in the next, depending on your playthrough style and wishes. That would be two sets of differing dialogue (if they did the type of romances I expect bioware to do, well thought out ones). I would much rather have two vastly differing romances depending on wheteher we romance LI's as a man or a woman, no?

Now in with this they would have to change party dialogue. Party dialogue would also change with differening veiws depending on the characters ie. A straight Anders may veiw a s/s romance differently then a bi/gay Anders may. And I would expect this to be reflected into dialogue. Whether the content would actually make it to the game or not, the way a character percieves another is most definatly a part of characterization, and would have to be taken into consideration when developing the characters ie Morrigan disapproving of Leliana's comments being part of her character.

Now, bioware has to decide what the other NPC's are going to be orientation wise in your playthroughs, because although you have decided what your LI will be, your companions orientations are still up in the air. Will anders still be a womanizer if you're romancing Fenris as a male? or will he hit on you too. What if he hits on you but you wanted him straight in your playthrough? Despite being in a homosexual relationship with Fenris.  What about Isabella? If a femhawke is in a relationship with Anders, then of course I want everyone to be straight, so why is Isabela flirting with me?

Now of course this all isn't possible (well, maybe in a dating sim), so what's the other option? Completely ignore anything related to sexuality. Why would Merril struggle with her homosexuality if everyone's bisexual -snip- there goes that great storyline. What about the whole situation with Anders and Justice? And perhaps their differing veiws on sexuality? -snip- we'll cut out that as well because everyone is bisexual, so why would Justice have a problem with this?

Now of course I'm not saying these are going to be in game. But I would like these to be an option to enter in DA2 or any future bioware games. To make everyone bi will take away the story lines associated with sexual orientations

Then there's the Hawkesexual part. That your companions orientation changes depending on your gender. They still have to decide what the orientation of your other characters will be during your playthrough. But then there's continuity issues! Why does Anders only hit on woman when he's bi with me in my playthrough. SO Anders character has to change. Not everything (as sexuality does not define), but a few things about Anders (as sexuality does influence).

Anyway all of this is TL;DR and upon rereading pretty confusing.

[Ryzaki]

Inzhuna wrote...

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...

sorry if this has been answered already but does only Hawke get to romance party members? or can romances between 2 party members that does not include Hawke occur?

We don't know this for certain yet, but my guess is no.

Not only that but seeing how pscyho everyone is they'd probably skin you alive. 

Except Isabela who would suggest an orgy. 

Edit: Read that wrong. I read that as having a romance with more than one party member. Nevermind me. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 février 2011 - 04:15 .

[The Ethereal Writer]

Dendens wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Dendens wrote...

...

I don't have such a problem with that, but I still think that bioware would be missing out on an incredible story telling experience if they chose that route

I disagree... the only opportunity I see BioWare missing out on is the opportunity to say "Gotcha!" to the player. "Haha, I'll bet you really liked Anders, huh? Too bad, he's for teh ladiez only." Given everything else going on with Anders's character, I don't think that his rejection of you because you're a guy is really the greatest story ever told.

I'm sorry if I seem obtuse about it... I'd love to hear what storytelling you think would be served by closing off a romance path, and I'm not being snide. Sincerity is hard to convey over the internet, and it's something that I get hung up on a lot, so I'm just gonna stop typing now, okay? Okay

You can stop typing, I'm certainly not going to:lol:

You say that you want to be able to have meriil straight in one playthrough, Gay in the next, depending on your playthrough style and wishes. That would be two sets of differing dialogue (if they did the type of romances I expect bioware to do, well thought out ones). I would much rather have two vastly differing romances depending on wheteher we romance LI's as a man or a woman, no?

Now in with this they would have to change party dialogue. Party dialogue would also change with differening veiws depending on the characters ie. A straight Anders may veiw a s/s romance differently then a bi/gay Anders may. And I would expect this to be reflected into dialogue. Whether the content would actually make it to the game or not, the way a character percieves another is most definatly a part of characterization, and would have to be taken into consideration when developing the characters ie Morrigan disapproving of Leliana's comments being part of her character.

Now, bioware has to decide what the other NPC's are going to be orientation wise in your playthroughs, because although you have decided what your LI will be, your companions orientations are still up in the air. Will anders still be a womanizer if you're romancing Fenris as a male? or will he hit on you too. What if he hits on you but you wanted him straight in your playthrough? Despite being in a homosexual relationship with Fenris.  What about Isabella? If a femhawke is in a relationship with Anders, then of course I want everyone to be straight, so why is Isabela flirting with me?

Now of course this all isn't possible (well, maybe in a dating sim), so what's the other option? Completely ignore anything related to sexuality. Why would Merril struggle with her homosexuality if everyone's bisexual -snip- there goes that great storyline. What about the whole situation with Anders and Justice? And perhaps their differing veiws on sexuality? -snip- we'll cut out that as well because everyone is bisexual, so why would Justice have a problem with this?

Now of course I'm not saying these are going to be in game. But I would like these to be an option to enter in DA2 or any future bioware games. To make everyone bi will take away the story lines associated with sexual orientations

Then there's the Hawkesexual part. That your companions orientation changes depending on your gender. They still have to decide what the orientation of your other characters will be during your playthrough. But then there's continuity issues! Why does Anders only hit on woman when he's bi with me in my playthrough. SO Anders character has to change. Not everything (as sexuality does not define), but a few things about Anders (as sexuality does influence).

Anyway all of this is TL;DR and upon rereading pretty confusing.

confusing definitely, but solid points I can pick up from it. still.....







Brain hurt. brain oozing out ear. I iz confuzled.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer, 19 février 2011 - 04:19 .

[Dendens]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Dendens wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

@Dendens

Buffy isn't an RPG. RPGs function differently. You play the main role, and indirectly or directly influence your party. There is no canon story. People change depending on the decisions you make. Harden Alistair, he becomes king. Don't harden him, and he happily runs away with you never to be king because he didn't want to.

Right. In the same way that you cannot convince Wynne to side with the templars, I believe that not all characters should be romancable to all genders. Wynne is not defined as a mage. She is a woman, a fereldan and a mother.

Story telly conventions work surprisingly well across multiple mediums

Sexuality shouldn't influence those conventions if they are an LI because it is an RPG and one of the main reasons they are a love interest is because it may impact the story in a BIG way (Morrigan, Alistair, etc) and why should anyone who is S/S inclined be denied that story?

Its optional. you choose to ignore it or not or play it a different angle, knowing you are willing to make that sacrifice so that other people can benefit.

They aren't denied the story? The DR happens regardless of orientation in game. Sure, you are more invested if you have romanced Alastair or Morrigan, but the event is still happening regardless. A character is not defined as an elf, but you bet the elf is going to have more invested in the alienage stoy then humans. Why should I be left out because I dislike elves ( I love elves, btw^_^).

Edit: Story telly. LOL, And DR, not DA

Modifié par Dendens, 19 février 2011 - 04:21 .

[Inzhuna]

@Ryzaki: Hehe, I was like: "o_O" Then saw your edit ;-)



I'm wondering if Isabela will become more possessive when she falls in love with Hawke. I'm a bit worried her romance might be a bit too much like Morrigan's, with all the 'no bringing feelings into this', although I have all the faith in the writers.

[TheShadowWolf911]

Inzhuna wrote...

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...

sorry if this has been answered already but does only Hawke get to romance party members? or can romances between 2 party members that does not include Hawke occur?

We don't know this for certain yet, but my guess is no.

i thought as much, but wouldn't it be interesting?