6813 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

I hope everyone's bi if only so I can spend all week after the game comes out loling at everyone who keeps insisting that X is straight only and would never ever ever ever ever fall in over with a same gendered Hawke.

Spiteful, petty and immature? Hell yes.

Would I enjoy it? Hellz Yes.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 février 2011 - 12:27 .

[Erani]

^ Ryzaki, I'm with you on that *evil giggle*

[Addai]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I get that that's how some people see it, but I think it's a bulls**t argument. Completely fluid? Absolutely not. Incidental? Ideally, yes. Romance subplots are supposed to be fun and rewarding for the player. There's not reason to bog it down with "Actually, I'm straight." STFU Merrill, you'll be straight when I say you're straight.

Her orientation is nominally "part of her identity," but only as much as, say, her skin or hair color. Would Merrill be any different if she were a readhead (Shianni )? No. Of all the possible "character traits" you can pick from to make a character unique, it says something that you should choose to emphasise the only one that lessens my enjoyment of Merrill's loveliness.

And that would be fine in a game where story is not such a high priority.  NPCs having outlooks of their own, and sometimes being immovable on them, is part of the strength of games like Origins IMO.

Your view of sexuality as being no more central to a person's identity as hair color is your own view and I do not share it.  There is no iteration of myself that is not into the dudes.  Sexuality is something deeply personal and integral, in my view, and I don't think I'm alone.

I mostly stay out of these discussions, but the "all bi" bandwagon is out in force.  Some of us like the way it was in Origins, however.  edit:  Including the fact that some team members aren't into Hawke at all, no matter what.

Modifié par Addai67, 20 février 2011 - 12:35 .

[Hakuro de Killer]

Addai67 wrote...

Hakuro de Killer wrote...
But here's the deal. Characters in Thedas do not confine themselves to labels like we do. That being said, only one character that I know about has actually ever been defined by his sexuality, if only as a bit of flavor, and that's Zevran. Alistair never expressed his liking of women over men, he just wasn't eligible because conversation choices forbade it. Same with Morrigan and female characters. Leliana is a lesbian, I don't care what you say. However gameplay made her bisexual because her line of work required her to seduce men. Zevran is like Captain Jack Harkness. With the exception of maybe Oghren, he'd pork anything that moves.

There are no labels in Thedas. Therefore it should make absolutely no difference to the plot if every romanceable character was bisexual. You would not be forced to romance a s/s character if you didn't REALLY want to, same with an o/s romance. Even though the o/s would be a hell of a lot more in-your-face than the more discreet s/s, its still something I feel should be done.

What is this omnisexual utopian Thedas you keep describing?  Sorry, but I think it only exists in your mind.

I ask each of you two valid questions. If a female character was allowed to seduce Morrigan, how would the plot of the game be different than if Morrigan romanced a male warden? Likewise, if a male character was allowed to seduce Alistair, how would the plot of the game change as opposed to if Alistair romanced a female warden?

There really is very little difference. Morrigan would continue on as normal, but if you chose her ending to Origins as a female character, she would still proceed as if you were a female character, not as a character who was attracted to her. Alistair would also continue on as normal.

It would be different because the characters have unique identities and part of those identities is that they are straight.  And it lent variety to the NPCs that not all of them had the same outlook towards relationships and sex.

Not everyone sees sexuality as something completely fluid (uh, no pun intended) and incidental.

Uhh... did you even PLAY Origins? The only reason you could not romance Morrigan was because gameplay said you couldn't. She never said she was straight. Not once. Same with Alistair. Only reason he could not be romanced by the male warden was because gameplay said no. The reason for a lot of heterosexual families in Ferelden was exclusively due to the fact that whatever families were seen had children.

Wade and Herren are lovers (Confirmed by Word of God). They are both very famous for their shop and their homosexual relationship never ever comes into question. There's not even an option to question it in dialogue choices because it is considered uncommon, but normal.

Also, what part of Morrigan's and Alistair's personalities explicitly say they're straight? Because Alistair doesn't speak with a lisp and Morrigan's head hasn't been shaven? You might as well say every blonde is stupid, every Antivan is an assassin, every Orlesian thinks they're above everyone else, and every Fereldanite is brutish and primitive.

Modifié par Hakuro de Killer, 20 février 2011 - 12:41 .

[Ryzaki]

Erani wrote...

^ Ryzaki, I'm with you on that *evil giggle*

[obsessedwjpn]

I think we should just do away with terms like homosexual, heterosexual, asexual, bisexual, etc. and all that nonsense in both games and real life. Love who you want, be with whatever character you want in the game (whether that character and your morals/ideas clash or not being the key factor to whether you can work a relationship out, not sexuality) and be happy.

Yeah, there we go. Love is love.

[The Ethereal Writer]

the simple fact of the matter is that not everyone in Thedas is bisexual, and the odds of you finding 4 companions who will aid you in your journey that are in fact bisexual is unlikely. You can sit on your high horse and say that they should all be bisexual so it's all fair, but in reality, and in Thedosian reality, that will most likely never happen.

Now, does that mean that sexual orientation shouldn't change in a game that spans 10 years? No not necessarily. It would be understandable if say, in a relationship with Merril as Male Hawke, five years later she says she's a lesbian and breaks up with you. Sexuality does change, and like it or not it shapes a part of who we are. As such, I do things that only I do, because of my sexuality. I'm a flirty person with girls. Does it set me up for some bad things, like when I charm a girl and don't know it? Yea but that's my own fault for being socially stupid with the female species.

Granted, I also understand why they don't have the LI's sexual orientation change over the course of the game.

Bottom line is, all of these arguments are pretty unreasonable.

"I want them all to be bi!"

"Well, I want them all to be gay!"

"Straight!"

It really doesn't matter. And we can't judge a character's sexuality by what they look like and how they act. People think Anders is gay because he wears earrings, but hey, he got some p*ssy in Awakening. And he's said he wants a pretty girl. Just because he wears earrings doesn't mean anything.

And this is probably all a bunch of nonsensical jibberish where each paragraph didn't even relate closely to the next.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer, 20 février 2011 - 12:57 .

[Sabariel]

Ryzaki wrote...

Erani wrote...

^ Ryzaki, I'm with you on that *evil giggle*

That is... so cute! <3

[Ryzaki]

Everytime I hear the "everyone in Thedas isn't bisexual!" I sigh. Everyone isn't an abomination, a prince, an assassin (hell this is the more common!), a bard (more common the the first two!), a woman raised by some unknown but ancient creature, a living weapon, a dalish elf that practices blood magic, a sexy sassy pirate who is a very powerful fighter who made her own style.  

So yeah. No one in your party is "average" or "nomal" or "common" for Thedas.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 février 2011 - 01:00 .

[MorningBird]

Addai67 wrote...

And that would be fine in a game where story is not such a high priority.  NPCs having outlooks of their own, and sometimes being immovable on them, is part of the strength of games like Origins IMO.

Your view of sexuality as being no more central to a person's identity as hair color is your own view and I do not share it.  There is no iteration of myself that is not into the dudes.  Sexuality is something deeply personal and integral, in my view, and I don't think I'm alone.

I mostly stay out of these discussions, but the "all bi" bandwagon is out in force.  Some of us like the way it was in Origins, however.  edit:  Including the fact that some team members aren't into Hawke at all, no matter what.

I think it's fine that you feel this way. As I've said in the past, I don't see this point of view as being wrong or insensitive, I just disagree.

I guess to me, in regards to Thedas, sexuality doesn't define someone as much as say... whether or not they're a mage or a mundane, circle of magi or apostate, peasant or noble, Orlesian or Ferelden, human, elf, or dwarf, Andrastian or barbarian, etc...  Or rather, I think these aspects of a character are more interesting than their sexuality.

If all a character had to them was, "I am the straight one!" or "I am the bi one!" I probably woudn't like them at all, because they would be missing those key background elements that make them interesting.  So to me, having a character with an established sexuality isn't as important as their personality quirks, history, plot involvement, etc...  Again, I know not everyone shares this view, and that's fine.

I do agree with you that sexuality can be defining and that not everyone should be a bi (as in, not all 7-8 of our party members), and I also agree that not everyone should be a LI.  Using the old example, Sten being gay (or a romance at all) wouldn't have made much sense to me because he was so devoted to the Qun.

However, do I think BioWare is capable of writing 4 convincing bi LI's for a single DA game?  I do, and I think they'd go about it in a tasteful manner where sexuality was merely subjective rather than 'all LI's are bi.'  Whether or not they have the budget, resources, or desire to do this, however, is something else entirely, and if they decided they did not possess the means or creative desire to do something like this, I completely understand.

I'm glad we get any kind of inclusion at all.  It's really just 'MOAR' syndrome.   At least, it is for me.

My question for you though would be, if all of the LI were bi, would that be a deal breaker for you?  I have heard some people say that even if the LI's sexuality was subjective, the 'metagame' knowledge that they could be romanced by the same gender was upsetting and/or immersion-breaking.

Modifié par MorningBird, 20 février 2011 - 01:06 .

[Hakuro de Killer]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

the simple fact of the matter is that not everyone in Thedas is bisexual, and the odds of you finding 4 companions who will aid you in your journey that are in fact bisexual is unlikely. You can sit on your high horse and say that they should all be bisexual so it's all fair, but in reality, and in Thedosian reality, that will most likely never happen.

Now, does that mean that sexual orientation shouldn't change in a game that spans 10 years? No not necessarily. It would be understandable if say, in a relationship with Merril as Male Hawke, five years later she says she's a lesbian and breaks up with you. Sexuality does change, and like it or not it shapes a part of who we are. As such, I do things that only I do, because of my sexuality. I'm a flirty person with girls. Does it set me up for some bad things, like when I charm a girl and don't know it? Yea but that's my own fault for being socially stupid with the female species.

Granted, I also understand why they don't have the LI's sexual orientation change over the course of the game.

Bottom line is, all of these arguments are pretty unreasonable.

"I want them all to be bi!"

"Well, I want them all to be gay!"

"Straight!"

It really doesn't matter. And we can't judge a character's sexuality by what they look like and how they act. People think Anders is gay because he wears earrings, but hey, he got some p*ssy in Awakening. And he's said he wants a pretty girl. Just because he wears earrings doesn't mean anything.

And this is probably all a bunch of nonsensical jibberish where each paragraph didn't even relate closely to the next.

As I have stated again and again, no one in Thedas is straight, gay, or bi. They simply do not identify with a label. That being the case, any or all in Thedas could have tendencies towards men and women, but to a certain percentage rather than 100% this way, or 100% that way, or 50% this way AND 50% that way,.

Its not that you would find 4 bisexual romanceable companions, its that they don't care if the one romancing them is a man or a woman NEARLY as much as we do.

[Hakuro de Killer]

MorningBird wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

And that would be fine in a game where story is not such a high priority.  NPCs having outlooks of their own, and sometimes being immovable on them, is part of the strength of games like Origins IMO.

Your view of sexuality as being no more central to a person's identity as hair color is your own view and I do not share it.  There is no iteration of myself that is not into the dudes.  Sexuality is something deeply personal and integral, in my view, and I don't think I'm alone.

I mostly stay out of these discussions, but the "all bi" bandwagon is out in force.  Some of us like the way it was in Origins, however.  edit:  Including the fact that some team members aren't into Hawke at all, no matter what.

I think it's fine that you feel this way. As I've said in the past, I don't see this point of view as being wrong or insensitive, I just disagree.

I guess to me, in regards to Thedas, sexuality doesn't define someone as much as say... whether or not they're a mage or a mundane, circle of magi or apostate, peasant or noble, Orlesian or Ferelden, human, elf, or dwarf, Andrastian or barbarian, etc...  Or rather, I think these aspects of a character are more interesting than their sexuality.

If all a character had to them was, "I am the straight one!" or "I am the bi one!" I probably woudn't like them at all, because they would be missing those key background elements that make them interesting.  So to me, having a character with an established sexuality isn't as important as their personality quirks, history, plot involvement, etc...  Again, I know not everyone shares this view, and that's fine.

I do agree with you that sexuality can be defining and that not everyone should be a bi (as in, not all 7-8 of our party members), and I also agree that not everyone should be a LI.  Using the old example, Sten being gay (or a romance at all) wouldn't have made much sense to me because he so devote to the Qun.

However, do I think BioWare is capable of writing 4 convincing bi LI's for a since DA game?  I do, and I think they'd go about it in a tasteful manner where sexuality was merely subjective rather than 'all LI's are bi.'  Whether or not they have the budget, resources, or desire to do this, however, is something else entirely, and if they decided they did not possess the means or creative desire to do something like this, I completely understand.

I'm glad we get any kind of inclusion at all.  It's really just 'MOAR' syndrome.   At least, it is for me.

My question for you though would be, if all of the LI were bi, would that be a deal breaker for you?  I have heard some people say that even if the LI's sexuality was subjective, the 'metagame' knowledge that they could be romanced by the same gender was upsetting and/or immersion-breaking.

Pretty much this. If sexual preference was subjective, that'd be fine.

I also agree that not everyone in the party should be a love interest because there are some characters more interested in plot resolution than romance.

Modifié par Hakuro de Killer, 20 février 2011 - 01:05 .

[mesmerizedish]

Ryzaki wrote...

Everytime I hear the "everyone in Thedas isn't bisexual!" I sigh. Everyone isn't an abomination, a prince, an assassin (hell this is the more common!), a bard (more common the the first two!), a woman raised by some unknown but ancient creature, a living weapon, a dalish elf that practices blood magic, a sexy sassy pirate who is a very powerful fighter who made her own style.  

So yeah. No one in your party is "average" or "nomal" or "common" for Thedas.

Inorite? Everyone in Thedas isn't bisexual? Guess what. Everyone in Thedas isn't in your party. If you're going to pull the "realism" card, then throw your party completely out. The chances that Anders, Merill, Isabela, et al. all come together to hang out with you? And now you want to argue that it's "unrealistic" that four of them might swing both ways? Give me a break.

[The Ethereal Writer]

of course not, they're all helping change the world. That in itself means they were meant for something. Everyone is unique, but these characters had a destiny to fulfill. And Flemeth knows more than she lets on.

My theory, though specifics to explain the questions I have about it I do not know, is that Flemeth is the Maker. Or maybe the spirit inside of her is the Maker.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer, 20 février 2011 - 01:07 .

[mesmerizedish]

MorningBird wrote...
...

My question for you though would be, if all of the LI were bi, would that be a deal breaker for you?  I have heard some people say that even if the LI's sexuality was subjective, the 'metagame' knowledge that they could be romanced by the same gender was upsetting and/or immersion-breaking.

Mmm... I call shenanigans (not on you, but on people who feel the way you describe here). That's closet homophobia. Just my judgment *shrug*

[Hakuro de Killer]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

of course not, they're all helping change the world. That in itself means they were meant for something. Everyone is unique, but these characters had a destiny to fulfill. And Flemeth knows more than she lets on.

My theory, though specifics on it I do not know, is that Flemeth is the Maker. Or maybe the spirit inside of her is the Maker.

So you want to romance Flemeth now?

One step at a time, my friend. One step at a time.

[The Ethereal Writer]

Hakuro de Killer wrote...

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

of course not, they're all helping change the world. That in itself means they were meant for something. Everyone is unique, but these characters had a destiny to fulfill. And Flemeth knows more than she lets on.

My theory, though specifics on it I do not know, is that Flemeth is the Maker. Or maybe the spirit inside of her is the Maker.

So you want to romance Flemeth now?

One step at a time, my friend. One step at a time.

lol I am speechless. I am literally left without speech, as I am dumbfounded as to how you came to that

[Hakuro de Killer]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

Hakuro de Killer wrote...

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

of course not, they're all helping change the world. That in itself means they were meant for something. Everyone is unique, but these characters had a destiny to fulfill. And Flemeth knows more than she lets on.

My theory, though specifics on it I do not know, is that Flemeth is the Maker. Or maybe the spirit inside of her is the Maker.

So you want to romance Flemeth now?

One step at a time, my friend. One step at a time.

lol I am speechless. I am literally left without speech, as I am dumbfounded as to how you came to that

Thread Title: Dragon Age 2 Romances confirmed

Your topic: something something something Flemeth.

Logical conclusion: You want to boink Flemeth.

Good game, sir.

[The Ethereal Writer]

oh and I found isabela in kitten form

[obsessedwjpn]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

MorningBird wrote...
...

My question for you though would be, if all of the LI were bi, would that be a deal breaker for you?  I have heard some people say that even if the LI's sexuality was subjective, the 'metagame' knowledge that they could be romanced by the same gender was upsetting and/or immersion-breaking.

Mmm... I call shenanigans (not on you, but on people who feel the way you describe here). That's closet homophobia. Just my judgment *shrug*

I am not one of these people Morning Bird describes so I agree with you all that I can't understand that way of thinking but please don't say that means these people must have homophobia then. I know you are saying it is your judgment but I think we can debate this issue without throwing around statements that degrade someone's integrity. Sorry, I just don't want either group to say bad things to the other.

[MorningBird]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

MorningBird wrote...
...

My question for you though would be, if all of the LI were bi, would that be a deal breaker for you?  I have heard some people say that even if the LI's sexuality was subjective, the 'metagame' knowledge that they could be romanced by the same gender was upsetting and/or immersion-breaking.

Mmm... I call shenanigans (not on you, but on people who feel the way you describe here). That's closet homophobia. Just my judgment *shrug*

Eh, I wouldn't call it homophobia. xD  What's immersion-breaking for me might not be immersion-breaking for someone else, you know?  And people see things differently.

For example, I think having 4 LI's open to all genders is fine, because there's an ENTIRE world out there filled with people who aren't LI's, let alone bi/gay.

Other people don't care about EVERYONE else in Thedas because the characters we get to know best are the ones in our party.  Every other NPC doesn't matter because they don't have as much story relevance, and when your focus is on that party, I can see how that metagame knowledge would upset someone without them being a homophobe. xD

Modifié par MorningBird, 20 février 2011 - 01:15 .

[The Ethereal Writer]

Hakuro de Killer wrote...

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

Hakuro de Killer wrote...

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

of course not, they're all helping change the world. That in itself means they were meant for something. Everyone is unique, but these characters had a destiny to fulfill. And Flemeth knows more than she lets on.

My theory, though specifics on it I do not know, is that Flemeth is the Maker. Or maybe the spirit inside of her is the Maker.

So you want to romance Flemeth now?

One step at a time, my friend. One step at a time.

lol I am speechless. I am literally left without speech, as I am dumbfounded as to how you came to that

Thread Title: Dragon Age 2 Romances confirmed

Your topic: something something something Flemeth.

Logical conclusion: You want to boink Flemeth.

Good game, sir.

so you've seen through my clever disguise! Yes, I want to do the bowchickawowow with Flemeth. I have life size cut-outs of her in my bedroom and I fantasize about her every night. we were meant..... to.... to.....


OH GOD I CAN'T DO THIS!!!!!

[Hakuro de Killer]

obsessedwjpn wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

MorningBird wrote...
...

My question for you though would be, if all of the LI were bi, would that be a deal breaker for you?  I have heard some people say that even if the LI's sexuality was subjective, the 'metagame' knowledge that they could be romanced by the same gender was upsetting and/or immersion-breaking.

Mmm... I call shenanigans (not on you, but on people who feel the way you describe here). That's closet homophobia. Just my judgment *shrug*

I am not one of these people Morning Bird describes so I agree with you all that I can't understand that way of thinking but please don't say that means these people must have homophobia then. I know you are saying it is your judgment but I think we can debate this issue without throwing around statements that degrade someone's integrity. Sorry, I just don't want either group to say bad things to the other.

She's saying that those who are disgusted with the game knowing that s/s romance exists are closet homophobes, and I have to concur. Because its true. I mean, should I be disgusted that there are heterosexual romances in the game? No, but not because its the norm. Its because it is one of the three main facets of sexual preference.

[Hakuro de Killer]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

Hakuro de Killer wrote...

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

Hakuro de Killer wrote...

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

of course not, they're all helping change the world. That in itself means they were meant for something. Everyone is unique, but these characters had a destiny to fulfill. And Flemeth knows more than she lets on.

My theory, though specifics on it I do not know, is that Flemeth is the Maker. Or maybe the spirit inside of her is the Maker.

So you want to romance Flemeth now?

One step at a time, my friend. One step at a time.

lol I am speechless. I am literally left without speech, as I am dumbfounded as to how you came to that

Thread Title: Dragon Age 2 Romances confirmed

Your topic: something something something Flemeth.

Logical conclusion: You want to boink Flemeth.

Good game, sir.

so you've seen through my clever disguise! Yes, I want to do the bowchickawowow with Flemeth. I have life size cut-outs of her in my bedroom and I fantasize about her every night. we were meant..... to.... to.....


OH GOD I CAN'T DO THIS!!!!!

As I was saying, good game sir.

[MorningBird]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

so you've seen through my clever disguise! Yes, I want to do the bowchickawowow with Flemeth. I have life size cut-outs of her in my bedroom and I fantasize about her every night. we were meant..... to.... to.....


OH GOD I CAN'T DO THIS!!!!!

*hands bucket* let it all out!