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[mesmerizedish]

wulfsturm wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Canada is proud of being a hat. They are flashy and sharp looking that way.

Better then being the pants like Mexico.

BAZZAM!

Oh. Pants. That wasn't my first thought.

[MorningBird]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Canada is proud of being a hat. They are flashy and sharp looking that way.

I would never wear a hat that looked like Canada.

Um, *scrambles for relevance* and I'd never romance somone who would?!?! *breathes a sigh of relief*

Wait, so... what does that make Mexico?

A... boot?

Anyway, does anyone know if we get to see anyone other than Izzy in the demo?  Because if not, I'm rolling straight up lady!Hawke's.

[The Ethereal Writer]

Ryzaki wrote...

...Where is it even said the Chantry is homophobic anways? I never remember any sort of prejudice in DAO except against elves and mages.

I wish people would stop with the Chantry = Catholic Church. 

The Chantry actually has shakey if somewhat decent reasoning for some of the s**** they do. 

And dwarves. They're somewhat prejudiced against the dwarven lifestyle, what with the Paragons.


And twisting words around just so you can imprison mages free of guilt is decent reasoning? Along with attacking elves because they just wanted to be left alone?

I'll admit the Chantry and the Catholic Church have some similarities, but not enough to say they're identical.

[The Ethereal Writer]

MorningBird wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Canada is proud of being a hat. They are flashy and sharp looking that way.

I would never wear a hat that looked like Canada.

Um, *scrambles for relevance* and I'd never romance somone who would?!?! *breathes a sigh of relief*

Wait, so... what does that make Mexico?

A... boot?

Anyway, does anyone know if we get to see anyone other than Izzy in the demo?  Because if not, I'm rolling straight up lady!Hawke's.

No, Italy is a boot.

[Addai]

MorningBird wrote...
My question for you though would be, if all of the LI were bi, would that be a deal breaker for you?  I have heard some people say that even if the LI's sexuality was subjective, the 'metagame' knowledge that they could be romanced by the same gender was upsetting and/or immersion-breaking.

Considering that I had several characters who ended up with Zevran...  I might have had one romance Leliana, too, if I didn't find her to be a creepy stalker whose voice was like nails on a chalkboard.  But I quite liked Zevran's romance.

However, as I said, I liked that the 4 LIs had so much variety in their outlooks.  All four of them being bisexual sounds to me like a recipe for shallowness (because content would have to be reduced in order to split resources) and the rather weird coincedence of Hawke being a bi magnet.

[wulfsturm]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Oh. Pants. That wasn't my first thought.

Shorts? Romantic, frilly shorts perhaps?

Modifié par wulfsturm, 20 février 2011 - 03:47 .

[HolyJellyfish]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Where is it even said the Chantry is homophobic anways? I never remember any sort of prejudice in DAO except against elves and mages.

I wish people would stop with the Chantry = Catholic Church. 

The Chantry actually has shakey if somewhat decent reasoning for some of the s**** they do. 

And dwarves. They're somewhat prejudiced against the dwarven lifestyle, what with the Paragons.


And twisting words around just so you can imprison mages free of guilt is decent reasoning? Along with attacking elves because they just wanted to be left alone?

I'll admit the Chantry and the Catholic Church have some similarities, but not enough to say they're identical.

If anything, the Chantry is more similar to the Catholic Church's history, not necessarily the church's contemporary politics.

They remind me of the church after the black plague, during the tide of the renaissance when mass witch burnings were taking place and protestant reforms started to occur. Its a parallel of history.

[mesmerizedish]

MorningBird wrote...

A... boot?

Anyway, does anyone know if we get to see anyone other than Izzy in the demo?  Because if not, I'm rolling straight up lady!Hawke's.

Varric, I expect. And, of course, the peeps you have at the very beginning (Aveline and Bethany [or that icky-doo mutant "brother"]). No one else, though.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...
And dwarves. They're somewhat prejudiced against the dwarven lifestyle, what with the Paragons.


And twisting words around just so you can imprison mages free of guilt is decent reasoning? Along with attacking elves because they just wanted to be left alone?

I'll admit the Chantry and the Catholic Church have some similarities, but not enough to say they're identical.

Yeah because it stops with the spreadig chant across world nonsense. Not great reasoning but eh. 

When that imprisonment keeps other people safe? Yes that's decent reasoning. 

There was no excuse for the elves (but I was referring to the mages with the decent reasoning bit). 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 février 2011 - 03:48 .

[mesmerizedish]

wulfsturm wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Oh. Pants. That wasn't my first thought.

Shorts? Romantic, frilly shorts perhaps?

Condom. First thing that sprang to mind. And I haven't even seen a condom in ten years. Go figure.

[The Ethereal Writer]

I always imagined Florida as America's dangly little friend, Blinky.

[wulfsturm]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...


Condom. First thing that sprang to mind. And I haven't even seen a condom in ten years. Go figure.

HAH. That's funny, doubly coming from a gay woman. Why didn't I think of that?!

Unless you're saying condoms are bad, which I would have to agree with. No. Wait, yes.

[HolyJellyfish]

Ryzaki wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Canada is proud of being a hat. They are flashy and sharp looking that way.

*highfives*

And yeah, I'm pretty sure the Chantry isn't anti-gay.  They're anti... anything that goes against them.

Lulz. I was getting confsed with the anti-gay Chantry thing. I knew something was just plain wrong about that. 

If Chantry are anti anything it's mages running wild. But given the vast potential for destruction the Chantry has (and it's not an imagined danger) their reasoning is sound even if their methods are questionable. 

HolyJellyfish wrote...

They aren't. Homosexuality isn't frowned upon in Thedas. In fact, no one really cares all that much.

Heck. Leliana is a devout chantry nun. She seems to be donning on her Bisexuality pride pretty strongly.

Then why do people keep insisting that it's such a major part of someone's identity if in Thedas no one seems to give a damn? 

Ah true. I keep forgetting about Leliana. 

I can't say since it could start a lot of erupting arguments. However, Thedas doesn't have the same issues the real world does. There are no major social upheavals over sexual orientation, and people don't question those who prefer other tastes. If I remember correctly, even if Zevran or Leliana hit on you - regardless of your gender - and you aren't interested, "I don't swing that way" simply isn't a response. Its more "Oh. I'm just not interested". Not... "Oh. You are mistaken. I am so not gay." But that can be left to the interpretation of the PC.

[Ryzaki]

HolyJellyfish wrote...
I can't say since it could start a lot of erupting arguments. However, Thedas doesn't have the same issues the real world does. There are no major social upheavals over sexual orientation, and people don't question those who prefer other tastes. If I remember correctly, even if Zevran or Leliana hit on you - regardless of your gender - and you aren't interested, "I don't swing that way" simply isn't a response. Its more "Oh. I'm just not interested". Not... "Oh. You are mistaken. I am so not gay." But that can be left to the interpretation of the PC.

Yeah but can't you do the whole "but...I'm a man!" convo with Zevran as a male PC? And then he asks if Fereldans are less open? 

But then in the HN origin Fergus acts like it's no big deal. Neither does Dairren for that matter.

...The only one who seems to make  has the potential to make it look like a big deal is...the PC. 

Though I thought the No...just...no. (paraphrased) was the "I don't swing that way." option. *is now very confused* 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 février 2011 - 03:55 .

[The Ethereal Writer]

Ryzaki wrote...

The Ethereal Writer wrote...
And dwarves. They're somewhat prejudiced against the dwarven lifestyle, what with the Paragons.


And twisting words around just so you can imprison mages free of guilt is decent reasoning? Along with attacking elves because they just wanted to be left alone?

I'll admit the Chantry and the Catholic Church have some similarities, but not enough to say they're identical.

Yeah because it stops with the spreadig chant across world nonsense. Not great reasoning but eh. 

When that imprisonment keeps other people safe? Yes that's decent reasoning. 

There was no excuse for the elves (but I was referring to the mages with the decent reasoning bit). 

But the way they treat mages is abhorrent. They think they're not human because The Maker gave them magic, so they're fit to be walked on like dirt. I'll admit keeping them in one place where they can learn magic safely is a good idea, but they're treated like prisoners. That's not fair to them. Keeping watch in the event of an Abomination, sure that's good reasoning. Treating them like second class citizens at best? They're arrogant and they did twist Andraste's words around to fit their own little warped sense of what's just and right.

The mage's collective has been doing a much better job it seems. Freedom, with it's own internal policing.

[Addai]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

I don't know if starting a war is necessary. But visibility is wonderful, regardless of how people individually respond to it.

And how do you propose to institute "visibility" in a single-person game where the player is in control of what content they consume?

BioWare should stick to what they do well, which is to tell stories and give a good entertainment experience.  Leave the political agendas out of it.  For that matter, I don't come to a gaming forum to discuss political matters, either.  It leads to nothing good.  Not like there aren't numerous other threads solely devoted to this topic.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...


But the way they treat mages is abhorrent. They think they're not human because The Maker gave them magic, so they're fit to be walked on like dirt. I'll admit keeping them in one place where they can learn magic safely is a good idea, but they're treated like prisoners. That's not fair to them. Keeping watch in the event of an Abomination, sure that's good reasoning. Treating them like second class citizens at best? They're arrogant and they did twist Andraste's words around to fit their own little warped sense of what's just and right.

The mage's collective has been doing a much better job it seems. Freedom, with it's own internal policing.

...Where are you getting that from? It's simply not true. Did you play the Magi origin? 

Really? At all? 

They're treated like prisoners true but they aren't treated anywhere near as bad as the elves. They are fed, given home, they certainly aren't tortured or abused physically (it would be a stupid thing to do in the first place). They are isolated for not only the populace at large but for themselves as well. As Wynne said the average person is afraid of a mage and wouldn't hesitae to shun a magi child if they were given reason too. 

And then of course are the dangers of abominations and the zealots that would kill a child mage out of fear. 

There treatement isn't abhorrent. It could be better sure but it also could be a hell of a lot worse. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 février 2011 - 04:01 .

[obsessedwjpn]

I have a wonder, since we were talking earlier about who shows up in the demo, when Mike Laidlaw played through the "Fools Rush In" quest line with getting Isabela, we saw Merrill and Anders already in his party at the end. Do we get to talk to or meet those two characters by any chance? Probably not but I am hopeful.

[mesmerizedish]

Addai67 wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

I don't know if starting a war is necessary. But visibility is wonderful, regardless of how people individually respond to it.

And how do you propose to institute "visibility" in a single-person game where the player is in control of what content they consume?

BioWare should stick to what they do well, which is to tell stories and give a good entertainment experience.  Leave the political agendas out of it.  For that matter, I don't come to a gaming forum to discuss political matters, either.  It leads to nothing good.  Not like there aren't numerous other threads solely devoted to this topic.

You don't say

P.S. I'm totally not trying to argue with you at all. I just that it was funny.

[MorningBird]

Addai67 wrote...

Considering that I had several characters who ended up with Zevran...  I might have had one romance Leliana, too, if I didn't find her to be a creepy stalker whose voice was like nails on a chalkboard.  But I quite liked Zevran's romance.

However, as I said, I liked that the 4 LIs had so much variety in their outlooks.  All four of them being bisexual sounds to me like a recipe for shallowness (because content would have to be reduced in order to split resources) and the rather weird coincedence of Hawke being a bi magnet.

Okay, hypothetical question then!

Say we did get 4 entirely subjective bisexual romances (meaning: their default orientation is straight unless the player purposefully pursues 'flirty' dialogues with a same-gender LI).  Assuming a best case scenario, The LI's still have very different personalities, lifestyles, quests and histories, and are all very much their own characters, each individual bringing something unique to the table.  Let's also say there were enough resources to make each romance meaningful rather than shallow.

Would it matter to you then if Anders was bi in my game?  Even if he was straight in yours?

I do agree with you that if it can't be done well, it shouldn't be done, which is why I'm presenting the 'best case' scenario.  Basically, if it was done well, would it be a deal breaker for you simply because of the metagame knowledge that other people could have a bi Anders, making it impossible for you to identify Anders as straight in your game?

Sorry of this is a poorly worded question. xD

[Ryzaki]

See devs? All this nerd raging could've been avoided if we knew who the s/s options were.



D:

[The Ethereal Writer]

I'm actually playing the Magi side of DA:O as I'm typing this, and yes they do treat less than human. The only people who have actually recognized my Male Mage as a good person was Redcliffe's Priest, Duncan, Cailan, and the party members. Everyone else was just "blah blah blah same stuff if you were another origin story"

Just because they're fed and given a bed doesn't change how they're treated. Prisoners are given food and water and beds too, but they're looked upon with disdain too.You may not see it as abhorrent, but I sure as heck do.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer, 20 février 2011 - 04:06 .

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

I'm actually playing the Magi side of DA:O as I'm typing this, and yes they do treat less than human. The only people who have actually recognized my Male Mage as a good person was Redcliffe's Priest.

Just because they're fed and given a bed doesn't change how they're treated. Prisoners are given food and water and beds too, but they're looked upon with disdain too.You may not see it as abhorrent, but I sure as heck do.

Less than human? Where are you being treated as less than human? *is baffled* They are scared of you for the most part. 

The elf is treated far more "less than human." than the mage is. The elf is treated with scorn and derision (as is a female PC in some parts) the mage is almost always feared. 

Prisoners for the most part (unless innocent) earned their fate. The mage aren't treated like subhumans I don't see how you could've gotten that impression. If they were they would look far more like Qunari mges. In chains with their mouths sewed shut. That is inhumane treatement. 

Locking someone in a tower, with everything they need including human contact and taking away certain liberties (child rearing, being able to come and go as you please) isn't inhumane. It's harsh yes. But inhumane? Not by a long shot. 

Edit: Hell just talk to Gregoir and the other templars. Their is no "inhumane" treatement going on. Either you don't know what that word means or you haven't truely played the Magi origin. The closest to that is turning someone into a...damn what's that word for the ones that lose all emotion....gah I forgot. Changing into one of those is the closest mages get to inhumane treatement and even that isn't described as being painful and isn't just done willy nilly for no reason other than the lulz. It is either because the mage volunteered or was a blood mage (which is extremely dangerous and shows the mage was willing to endanger those around them for power). 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 février 2011 - 04:14 .

[The Ethereal Writer]

obsessedwjpn wrote...

I have a wonder, since we were talking earlier about who shows up in the demo, when Mike Laidlaw played through the "Fools Rush In" quest line with getting Isabela, we saw Merrill and Anders already in his party at the end. Do we get to talk to or meet those two characters by any chance? Probably not but I am hopeful.

I'm pretty sure we get the whole entire line-up to choose from, save for Sebastian. I too hope there will be some opportunities to talk to them outside of scenes, but if not meh.

[The Ethereal Writer]

Ryzaki wrote...

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

I'm actually playing the Magi side of DA:O as I'm typing this, and yes they do treat less than human. The only people who have actually recognized my Male Mage as a good person was Redcliffe's Priest.

Just because they're fed and given a bed doesn't change how they're treated. Prisoners are given food and water and beds too, but they're looked upon with disdain too.You may not see it as abhorrent, but I sure as heck do.

Less than human? Where are you being treated as less than human? *is baffled* They are scared of you for the most part. 

The elf is treated far more "less than human." than the mage is. The elf is treated with scorn and derision (as is a female PC in some parts) the mage is almost always feared. 

Prisoners for the most part (unless innocent) earned their fate. The mage aren't treated like subhumans I don't see how you could've gotten that impression. If they were they would look far more like Qunari mges. In chains with their mouths sewed shut. That is inhumane treatement. 

Locking someone in a tower, with everything they need including human contact and taking away certain liberties (child rearing, being able to come and go as you please) isn't inhumane. It's harsh yes. But inhumane? Not by a long shot. 

Exactly! they treat the mages like monsters! That's my point. Magic isn't a curse, yet they see it as such and are scared. Niall's (or was it Jowan's?) father hated him because of his magical talents. Qunari treatment is worse I'll give you that, but I see the Mages as being treated like ****. Nothing you say will convince me otherwise. I mean, look at Kirkwall! The Templars operate through more fear then the others! How is that not inhumane?

How can you punish an entire group of people for the mistakes of someone else? That's like punishing an 8 year old because another 8 year old broke your favorite statue. Two 8 year olds are not the same.