6813 réponses à ce sujet

[AstraDrakkar]

ErichHartmann wrote...

I like this thread, its silly. On a more serious note how much jealousy will likely be generated from juggling multiple romances?

I have been wondering about this one as well.

[The Ethereal Writer]

look we have differing opinions on what's abhorrent treatment in regards to the mages, and to say that my opinion is wrong because you don't see it as such is kinda..... well, douchey. There is a list of people who treat mages right, and there's a list of people who treat mages like ****. I just don't want to list everyone who is nice and who is evil. I'd just take up a lot of space on here

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...
Exactly! they treat the mages like monsters! That's my point. Magic isn't a curse, yet they see it as such and are scared. Niall's (or was it Jowan's?) father hated him because of his magical talents. Qunari treatment is worse I'll give you that, but I see the Mages as being treated like ****. Nothing you say will convince me otherwise. I mean, look at Kirkwall! The Templars operate through more fear then the others! How is that not inhumane?

How can you punish an entire group of people for the mistakes of someone else? That's like punishing an 8 year old because another 8 year old broke your favorite statue. Two 8 year olds are not the same.

They do not treat mages like monsters. They treat mages like dangerous people. Which is exactly what they are. No matter how pure a mage's intentions, no matter how nice and sweet they maybe there are dangerous. They can't control that danger without training.  

Templars don't do the Harrowing for the lulz. They don't kill mages (unless their bastards) for the lulz. They don't turn mages into...that emotionless thing for the lulz. 

You're trying to make the issue far more simplier than it actually is. The mages can destroy towns, villages without meaning too. It doesn't matter if their 8 or 80 just look at what Conner did! Conner didn't mean to slaughter all those people! Conner didn't want to do that! That is just part of the danger of being a mage! That is why they are locked away from people defenseless against their powers! That is why they are trained! 

There is no "inhumanity" about the mages being in the circle. Inhumane means it lacks pity or compassion. If that was the case they would simply turn all the mages into those emotionless things or keep them doped up on Lyrium so they can easily be controlled. Instead they are given a say in how the circle is run and can with limits leave the Circle. 

If the Circle was as "inhumane" as you say they would've killed Anders instead of constantly dragging him back. Mages would never be allowed to leave the Circle unless it was important for someone else. (Talk to the Templars about leaving and ask Irving about leaving). 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 février 2011 - 04:21 .

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

look we have differing opinions on what's abhorrent treatment in regards to the mages, and to say that my opinion is wrong because you don't see it as such is kinda..... well, douchey. There is a list of people who treat mages right, and there's a list of people who treat mages like ****. I just don't want to list everyone who is nice and who is evil. I'd just take up a lot of space on here

You're using a very loaded word "inhumane" and trying to say that's how mages are being treated. That's simply not true. 

I'm not saying you're wrong that mages are mistreated. You're wrong by claiming that mages are treated inhumanly. 

And of course there's a list of people who treat mages like crap. That goes for everything! That's like saying because some parents are abusive no children should live with their parents! 

If the Circle had no compassion for the mages things would be a lot worse than they are. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 février 2011 - 04:26 .

[The Ethereal Writer]

I'm not saying "No don't lock them up in a tower!" I'm saying "If you have to lock them up in a tower fine, just don't treat them like they're nothing". The Chantry just needs to reevaluate its views on Mages and people need to not act like a-holes to them. I can understand being nervous around a Mage, but always living in fear? That's wrong, it's unhealthy, it's all manner of things.



And connor was entirely Isolde's fault. She was a dumb b**** who couldn't face facts. I blame her for everything that happened in Redcliffe. It's like Teagan said "Your secrecy made Jowan's actions possible, Isolde"

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

I'm not saying "No don't lock them up in a tower!" I'm saying "If you have to lock them up in a tower fine, just don't treat them like they're nothing". The Chantry just needs to reevaluate its views on Mages and people need to not act like a-holes to them. I can understand being nervous around a Mage, but always living in fear? That's wrong, it's unhealthy, it's all manner of things.

And connor was entirely Isolde's fault. She was a dumb b**** who couldn't face facts. I blame her for everything that happened in Redcliffe. It's like Teagan said "Your secrecy made Jowan's actions possible, Isolde"

 

They aren't treated like nothing. I ask again did you bother talking to the templars and listening to the dialogue in the Magi origin? 

True the living in fear is unhealthy but mages are very dangerous. Its hard to tell someone not to be scared of someone who can kill them with their mind and do it unintentionally. Someone who can destroy everything they've built while their helpless to stop it. 

Conner made a deal with a demon because he didn't know the dangers. True it was partly Isolde's fault, it was partly Jowan's fault for benig a lousy teacher, Loghain's for poisoning Eamon in the first place (and being an idiotic douche but let's not get into that), but it was mostly because Conner lacked knowledge that the Circle with all its faults would've taught him. 

Lack of knowledge, and Conner being a mage is what caused the incident. Isolde's actions wouldn't have been necessary had Conner not been a mage (Or had enough of a brain to trust someone other than DERP Loghain). <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 février 2011 - 04:32 .

[Riona45]

I thought this thread was about romance?

[AstraDrakkar]

Mar. 8th seems so far away right now, *sigh*

[thesuperdarkone]

Great, this thread turned into another Mage vs. Templar debate

[The Ethereal Writer]

They get food. Cool. They get water. Cool. Beds. cool. Human contact -meh that's almost always limited to Templars and other mages, with Templars slowly going insane due to lyrium and are always suspicious. Not wary, suspicious, barring of course a few exceptions.



Like I've said, we have differering opinions, and I want to see the Chantry burn to the ground myself, because a lot of what they say is just..... evil sugarcoated with "We want to save everyone!!"

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

They get food. Cool. They get water. Cool. Beds. cool. Human contact -meh that's almost always limited to Templars and other mages, with Templars slowly going insane due to lyrium and are always suspicious. Not wary, suspicious, barring of course a few exceptions.

Like I've said, we have differering opinions, and I want to see the Chantry burn to the ground myself, because a lot of what they say is just..... evil sugarcoated with "We want to save everyone!!"

Yes it's such a terrible thing to have contact with people who know exactly how it feels to be you. How terrible.  

Being fed and having water, shelther, being protected yes that's truely so much worse than those elves that get none of that and can be raped/killed by any wandering human. So much worse. 

And if that happens I want to see the country tear itself apart as commoners and mages start killing each other en masse. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 février 2011 - 04:36 .

[Addai]

MorningBird wrote...

Say we did get 4 entirely subjective bisexual romances (meaning: their default orientation is straight unless the player purposefully pursues 'flirty' dialogues with a same-gender LI).  Assuming a best case scenario, The LI's still have very different personalities, lifestyles, quests and histories, and are all very much their own characters, each individual bringing something unique to the table.  Let's also say there were enough resources to make each romance meaningful rather than shallow.

But the fact that a character would pursue a s/s relationship if flirted with means their bisexual in orientation.  And we're back to square one, where having all 4 be bisexual would IMO seem very strange.

I don't know what you mean by "deal breaker."  The romances are all optional and I don't play the games only for them.

[The Ethereal Writer]

Riona45 wrote...

I thought this thread was about romance?

It was, then I got sucked into the swirling vortex of Mage treatment.


ROMANCE ROMANCE ROMANCE ROMANCE.

There, back on topic

[The Ethereal Writer]

Ryzaki wrote...

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

They get food. Cool. They get water. Cool. Beds. cool. Human contact -meh that's almost always limited to Templars and other mages, with Templars slowly going insane due to lyrium and are always suspicious. Not wary, suspicious, barring of course a few exceptions.

Like I've said, we have differering opinions, and I want to see the Chantry burn to the ground myself, because a lot of what they say is just..... evil sugarcoated with "We want to save everyone!!"

Yes it's such a terrible thing to have contact with people who know exactly how it feels to be you. How terrible.  

Being fed and having water, shelther,being protected yes that's truely so much worse than those elves that get none of that and can be raped by any wandering human. Soo much worse. 

And if that happens I want to see the country tear itself apart as commoners and mages start killing each other en masse. 

I never said living with other mages was terrible. Now you're putting words in my mouth, which how does that work when we're typing? I'm just saying that's not a lot of human contact. Prisoners again get human contact with other prisoners who know how it feels to be locked up for doing stupid ass crimes. I never once said "living with other Mages is a terrible terrible NO NO"

[mesmerizedish]

Addai67 wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

Say we did get 4 entirely subjective bisexual romances (meaning: their default orientation is straight unless the player purposefully pursues 'flirty' dialogues with a same-gender LI).  Assuming a best case scenario, The LI's still have very different personalities, lifestyles, quests and histories, and are all very much their own characters, each individual bringing something unique to the table.  Let's also say there were enough resources to make each romance meaningful rather than shallow.

But the fact that a character would pursue a s/s relationship if flirted with means their bisexual in orientation.  And we're back to square one, where having all 4 be bisexual would IMO seem very strange.

I don't know what you mean by "deal breaker."  The romances are all optional and I don't play the games only for them.

Except that they're only "bisexual" if you choose to pursue them. If not, you're never going to see anything from them that could indicate a preference. And if you do pursue them, then they're "sudden" bisexuality probably doesn't seem strange.

If your argument here is "But I would still know," that just doesn't fly, sorry *shrug*

[EDIT] THIS IS SO EFFING ON-TOPIC. PROPS FOR ME, MORNINGBIRD, AND ADDAI.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 20 février 2011 - 04:38 .

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

I never said living with other mages was terrible. Now you're putting words in my mouth, which how does that work when we're typing? I'm just saying that's not a lot of human contact. Prisoners again get human contact with other prisoners who know how it feels to be locked up for doing stupid ass crimes. I never once said "living with other Mages is a terrible terrible NO NO"

You're saying their treated inhumanly. What exactly is inhumane about how the mages are treated? 

Not a lot of human contact? Exactly how many mages do you think are in the circle? 

Prisoners earned their fate for the most part stop comparing the two. Prisoners also don't have a genetic condition that allows them to be possessed by creatures of mass destruction and can do little to stop it once the spirit takes hold. 

No but you keep saying their treated like monsters, "inhumanly". 

[The Ethereal Writer]

dude you're acting like I'm saying being fed and taken care of is bad! I'm not! You're making out to be the bad guy, but I'm not! I know elves are treated far worse, but it can't be denied that mages have ****ty treatment too in regards to who they are. I'm done arguing, you're making me out to be some sort of lousy ****** and that's really making me mad.

[The Ethereal Writer]

psychosis can kinda be considered a creature of mass destruction. and most criminals are in fact, psychotic

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer, 20 février 2011 - 04:44 .

[AstraDrakkar]

Riona45 wrote...

I thought this thread was about romance?

I think it still is, but since Bioware hasn't treated us with any new romance info since the beginning of the topic, it sometimes goes off on tangents. I'm sure it'll get back on track.

Is anyone else wondering about potential jealousy issues or love triangles when juggling LI's? I know i am, cause i want both Anders and Fenris. I wonder if i'll have to pursue each one separately during different playthroughs, or if I can have it all at one go? I'm guessing probably the former. If that's the case, i don't know which one i'll try out first. This is a serious dilemma here! LOL

Modifié par AstraDrakkar, 20 février 2011 - 04:47 .

[Addai]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Except that they're only "bisexual" if you choose to pursue them. If not, you're never going to see anything from them that could indicate a preference. And if you do pursue them, then they're "sudden" bisexuality probably doesn't seem strange.

If your argument here is "But I would still know," that just doesn't fly, sorry *shrug*

And why would my PC not know something so important about a person they care about?

For me, deep characterization is what makes these games what they are.  There might be games where you get to mold the NPCs to be your dream fantasy, but I would not be interested in those.  If that's what the other poster means by a dealbreaker, yep I guess it is.  That's why I read the dev posts about a character I like, read the game novels etc.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

dude you're acting like I'm saying being fed and taken care of is bad! I'm not! You're making out to be the bad guy, but I'm not! I know elves are treated far worse, but it can't be denied that mages have ****ty treatment too in regards to who they are. I'm done arguing, you're making me out to be some sort of lousy ****** and that's really making me mad.

You are using the word "Inhumane." in a situation that isn't even close to being inhumane. Take that word back and I'll stop busting your balls over it. 

Yes their treated ****ty. But they are not treated like subhumans. They aren't treated as 2nd class citizens. (Edit: Maybe in a sense they are. They lose reproductive freedoms and freedom to travel in exchange for safety and shelther and this isn't freely given) They are not allowed to be abused and exploited lightly or without reproach by a large segement of the population. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 février 2011 - 04:43 .

[The Ethereal Writer]

why should I have to change MY opinion just for you to stop? Why do you care so much about how I view something? it's MY opinion. MINE. MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE.

[Dendens]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

psychosis can be considered a creature of mass destruction. and most criminals are in fact, psychotic

wut?

[mesmerizedish]

Addai67 wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Except that they're only "bisexual" if you choose to pursue them. If not, you're never going to see anything from them that could indicate a preference. And if you do pursue them, then they're "sudden" bisexuality probably doesn't seem strange.

If your argument here is "But I would still know," that just doesn't fly, sorry *shrug*

And why would my PC not know something so important about a person they care about?

For me, deep characterization is what makes these games what they are.  There might be games where you get to mold the NPCs to be your dream fantasy, but I would not be interested in those.  If that's what the other poster means by a dealbreaker, yep I guess it is.  That's why I read the dev posts about a character I like, read the game novels etc.

Your PC wouldn't know because (s)he wouldn't be given any indication of it. It's subjective. If you don't pick the "I want you" dialogue options, then the character doesn't want you. It's not that they do, you just didn't ask. I'm banging my head against the wall, I don't know how else to explain what subjectivity is in context

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

psychosis can be considered a creature of mass destruction. and most criminals are in fact, psychotic

 

The day a criminal can change into a abomination and spew magical fireballs and kill people from a distance (without usage of a weapon) I'll consider them creatures of mass destruction.