6813 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

yes WE have social and legal laws. but is Thedas Earth? do they have the same ideas as us? No. no no no. and for some reason I just can't drop this argument. Dammit....

And in Thedas they certainly wouldn't have laws as strict as ours (in certain countries) so being treated inhumanely would probably be considered what the Qunari do to the mages. (Especially since the Qunari aren't human to begin with).  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 février 2011 - 05:03 .

[Dendens]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

yes WE have social and legal laws. but is Thedas Earth? do they have the same ideas as us? No. no no no. and for some reason I just can't drop this argument. Dammit....

Well the whole idea of treating someone inhumanly stems from our world, so why should it not hold all of the requirements*?


*I still don't like that word in the context of what we're saying grrr:blink:

EDIT: You're introducing a foreign idea into another society which may or may not have differing social and legal views. Therefore the idea of what you consider inhuman (and, as an extension, we) may or not match what they think is inhuman, but with no other information, what else can we base our views upon?

EDIT EDIT: OMG VIEW

Modifié par Dendens, 20 février 2011 - 05:09 .

[The Ethereal Writer]

well, Qunari have a very skewed way of thinking, as well as having a very amazing and intellectual side of thinking. A lot of what Sten said made sense, but a lot of what the Qunari do makes them seem insane.



And even if I did concede, would you believe me after we've been having this argument for 2-3 pages now? There isn't really a point. You can bust my balls until trumpets sound and Judgement day is upon us, but there's no guarantee I'm not spoon feeding you some BS

[mesmerizedish]

Addai67 wrote...

No, they would be bisexual characters who for whatever reason a) don't know they are, or are concealing it.

I do understand what you're saying, but in a story-heavy game, I hope for characters to be as "real" as possible, and not simply blank slates on which the player can project whatever view of them they prefer to hold.

But that's not what they would be. They would be the characters they are, unless the player flips a toggle through gameplay, whereupon a slight change in the character would happen.

You're projecting your own view when you say that both settings of said toggle are true at the same time. That one single quality might be one way in my game and another way in yours by no means turns the character into a "blank slate." That's hyperbole that serves no greater rhetorical purpose *shrug*

[AstraDrakkar]

Mar. 8th really can't come soon enough. At least Feb. 22nd is on my day off, so i can work off some of my frustrations while playing the demo. Probably won't be any Fenris or Anders tidbits in it though.....*sigh*

Omg, i see I have Mar. 8th off as well.....Happy, Happy!  

Modifié par AstraDrakkar, 20 février 2011 - 05:13 .

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

well, Qunari have a very skewed way of thinking, as well as having a very amazing and intellectual side of thinking. A lot of what Sten said made sense, but a lot of what the Qunari do makes them seem insane.

And even if I did concede, would you believe me after we've been having this argument for 2-3 pages now? There isn't really a point. You can bust my balls until trumpets sound and Judgement day is upon us, but there's no guarantee I'm not spoon feeding you some BS

That doesn't stop one from treating people without remorse or pity. 

If your spoonfeed me BS that's your word that's worth crap not mine. I lose nothing from you lying. 

/shrugs

Anyways ontopic: I want all Bi LIs.   And I don't care if I'm "bandwagoning" 

Plus the epicness of all of them approaching you at once and demanding you pick someone would be hysterical. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 février 2011 - 05:12 .

[Silthir]

Ryzaki wrote...
Anyways ontopic: I want all Bi LIs.   And I don't care if I'm "bandwagoning" 

I approve of this message

[The Ethereal Writer]

"If your spoonfeed me BS that's your word that's worth crap not mine. I lose nothing from you lying. "



of course I'm the one who's lying and my word isn't worth anything. I wouldn't expect it to be my dog's words



you also gain nothing, but you end up having wasted time trying to pointlessly prove something to someone who wants to hold onto his opinion, because he sees a different universe's treatment of people as horrible, even if it doesn't fit our world's definitions of what exactly inhumane is.

[MorningBird]

Addai67 wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

Say we did get 4 entirely subjective bisexual romances (meaning: their default orientation is straight unless the player purposefully pursues 'flirty' dialogues with a same-gender LI).  Assuming a best case scenario, The LI's still have very different personalities, lifestyles, quests and histories, and are all very much their own characters, each individual bringing something unique to the table.  Let's also say there were enough resources to make each romance meaningful rather than shallow.

But the fact that a character would pursue a s/s relationship if flirted with means their bisexual in orientation.  And we're back to square one, where having all 4 be bisexual would IMO seem very strange.

I don't know what you mean by "deal breaker."  The romances are all optional and I don't play the games only for them.

So basically, the metagaming knowledge that certain characters could be bi in someone else's game would ruin the experience for you, even though you had the option of identifying them as straight in your own?  I'm not trying to put words in your mouth here (sorry in advance if it comes across that way!)  just trying to make sure I understand your position.

To rephrase, you cannot see sexuality as being subjective due to the knowledge that the characters could be bi in someone elses game, and therefore, you'd see them as bi in your own?

And all I mean by deal-breaker is, would you not buy the game if the LI's became accessible to all genders?  Would it ruin your gaming experience to the point that you would no longer buy Dragon Age games?  Or is it simply something you would prefer to be without, but overall, wouldn't affect your consumer loyalty?

Once again, sorry if this is poorly worded.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

"If your spoonfeed me BS that's your word that's worth crap not mine. I lose nothing from you lying. "

of course I'm the one who's lying and my word isn't worth anything. I wouldn't expect it to be my dog's words

you also gain nothing, but you end up having wasted time trying to pointlessly prove something to someone who wants to hold onto his opinion, because he sees a different universe's treatment of people as horrible, even if it doesn't fit our world's definitions of what exactly inhumane is.

Obviously. But you have to deal with the fact that you're only recourse was to lie.  

Wasted time? Dude you're on an internet forum. What do you think we're doing here? Finding out the secrets to the universe? 

And I never said they weren't treated badly. I said they weren't treated inhumanely a distinction you don't seem able or willing to comprehened. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 février 2011 - 05:16 .

[Dendens]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

"If your spoonfeed me BS that's your word that's worth crap not mine. I lose nothing from you lying. "

of course I'm the one who's lying and my word isn't worth anything. I wouldn't expect it to be my dog's words

you also gain nothing, but you end up having wasted time trying to pointlessly prove something to someone who wants to hold onto his opinion, because he sees a different universe's treatment of people as horrible, even if it doesn't fit our world's definitions of what exactly inhumane is.

But opinion stops being opinion when we have something by which we can measure the idea.

But anyway, On topic.

Isn't fenris's hair purrrrrttyyyy

Modifié par Dendens, 20 février 2011 - 05:18 .

[The Ethereal Writer]

Ryzaki wrote...

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

"If your spoonfeed me BS that's your word that's worth crap not mine. I lose nothing from you lying. "

of course I'm the one who's lying and my word isn't worth anything. I wouldn't expect it to be my dog's words

you also gain nothing, but you end up having wasted time trying to pointlessly prove something to someone who wants to hold onto his opinion, because he sees a different universe's treatment of people as horrible, even if it doesn't fit our world's definitions of what exactly inhumane is.

Obviously. But you have to deal with the fact that you're only recourse was to lie.  

Wasted time? Dude you're on an internet forum. What do you think we're doing here? Finding out the secrets to the universe? 

And I never said they weren't treated badly. I said they weren't treated inhumanely a distinction you don't seem able or willing to comprehened. 

well I haven't lied yet have I? nope

and touche good sir.

At the very least, I'll say that Kirkwall treats their mages inhumanely. I'll say Ferelden isn't inhumane. I had never given a specific country as a basis for the inhumane treatment. All I had to rely on was a little bit of info from the other countries and a lot from Ferelden. So, Ferelden is at least fair minded. Kirkwall. Kirkwall runs things like a maniac.

How's that?

[mesmerizedish]

Do we know how Kirkwall treat their mages?

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 20 février 2011 - 05:21 .

[The Ethereal Writer]

the DA wiki says they rule through fear and hold their Circle in an iron grip

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Kirkwall

very bottom, in the timeline section

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer, 20 février 2011 - 05:24 .

[Silthir]

Boys, boys, boys.  What do the mages have to do with the romances?    I think we should get back to... Fenris and Anders

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...
well I haven't lied yet have I? nope

and touche good sir.

At the very least, I'll say that Kirkwall treats their mages inhumanely. I'll say Ferelden isn't inhumane. I had never given a specific country as a basis for the inhumane treatment. All I had to rely on was a little bit of info from the other countries and a lot from Ferelden. So, Ferelden is at least fair minded. Kirkwall. Kirkwall runs things like a maniac.

How's that?

lulz. 

???

We know how Kirkwall treats their mages? The only thing I got was there was a lot of templars. Lots of templars =/= mages being treated inhumanely. 

Kirkwall running a tight ship and not letting apostates roam around yonder =/= maniacs. 

I think we need to actually play DA2 before making any judgement calls about their Chantry. Unless you have some source for how Kirkwall treats the mages? If you do please share I could use some spoilers. 

[Addai]

MorningBird wrote...
So basically, the metagaming knowledge that certain characters could be bi in someone else's game would ruin the experience for you, even though you had the option of identifying them as straight in your own?  I'm not trying to put words in your mouth here (sorry in advance if it comes across that way!)  just trying to make sure I understand your position.

It would ruin the experience in that I would see it as weak characterization, and the richness of the characters- how they seem to be real people- is what makes the game so addicting for me.  Since I do read the forums and extra-game information, it is a factor, whereas someone casually playing the game might not know the difference.  I don't consider it "metagame" because to me the character is who he or she is, and consider the few interactions I actually see on the screen to be just a flavor of the full story.  So while my PC may never have a discussion with her LI on screen where he says "I'm also into the dudes", if he really is bisexual, I would expect she would know that in the course of a relationship.

I wouldn't say that it would prevent me from buying the game.  The storytelling could still be good, and I do play games I find far less compelling, but they don't hold my interest as much.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

the DA wiki says they rule through fear and hold their Circle in an iron grip

We need more information than that to say they're being treated inhumanely. 

[Ryzaki]

Silthir wrote...

Boys, boys, boys.  What do the mages have to do with the romances?    I think we should get back to... Fenris and Anders

At the same time? 

Yummy.  

FenrisxAnders fanart...I wish there was some. 

[MorningBird]

Addai67 wrote...

It would ruin the experience in that I would see it as weak characterization, and the richness of the characters- how they seem to be real people- is what makes the game so addicting for me.  Since I do read the forums and extra-game information, it is a factor, whereas someone casually playing the game might not know the difference.  I don't consider it "metagame" because to me the character is who he or she is, and consider the few interactions I actually see on the screen to be just a flavor of the full story.  So while my PC may never have a discussion with her LI on screen where he says "I'm also into the dudes", if he really is bisexual, I would expect she would know that in the course of a relationship.

I wouldn't say that it would prevent me from buying the game.  The storytelling could still be good, and I do play games I find far less compelling, but they don't hold my interest as much.

Alright, cool.  I can completely understand that.

[Silthir]

Ryzaki wrote...

Silthir wrote...

Boys, boys, boys.  What do the mages have to do with the romances?    I think we should get back to... Fenris and Anders

At the same time? 

Yummy.  

FenrisxAnders fanart...I wish there was some. 

Oh my Maker... threesome with a male Hawke = magic

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

Ryzaki wrote...

Silthir wrote...

Boys, boys, boys.  What do the mages have to do with the romances?    I think we should get back to... Fenris and Anders

At the same time? 

Yummy.  

FenrisxAnders fanart...I wish there was some. 

Disgusting

Let's get some Isabella/Bethany/Merril 3 way going

[MorningBird]

Silthir wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Silthir wrote...

Boys, boys, boys.  What do the mages have to do with the romances?    I think we should get back to... Fenris and Anders

At the same time? 

Yummy.  

FenrisxAnders fanart...I wish there was some. 

Oh my Maker... threesome with a male Hawke = magic

This is the closest I have ever seen to that.

Modifié par MorningBird, 20 février 2011 - 05:29 .

[Dendens]

Silthir wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Silthir wrote...

Boys, boys, boys.  What do the mages have to do with the romances?    I think we should get back to... Fenris and Anders

At the same time? 

Yummy.  

FenrisxAnders fanart...I wish there was some. 

Oh my Maker... threesome with a male Hawke = magic

Can we get some Carver action instead? I know he's hawkes brother....but he's not mine

[mesmerizedish]

Addai67 wrote...

It would ruin the experience in that I would see it as weak characterization, and the richness of the characters- how they seem to be real people- is what makes the game so addicting for me.  Since I do read the forums and extra-game information, it is a factor, whereas someone casually playing the game might not know the difference.  I don't consider it "metagame" because to me the character is who he or she is, and consider the few interactions I actually see on the screen to be just a flavor of the full story.  So while my PC may never have a discussion with her LI on screen where he says "I'm also into the dudes", if he really is bisexual, I would expect she would know that in the course of a relationship.

I wouldn't say that it would prevent me from buying the game.  The storytelling could still be good, and I do play games I find far less compelling, but they don't hold my interest as much.

The bolded part is the relevant statement to my response. Here's what's happening. You're saying that because Alistair can be hardened, he's a weak character. After all, he is who he is, right? That right there is an instance where in my game, he can be a spineless toad (I never harden him, it feels too mean), but in your game, he might turn into a jackass. But my knowledge that he could turn into a giant douche doesn't lessen the fact that in my game, he isn't one.

The sole difference is that the sexuality change is retroactive. Once you go through the process of wooing the character, it's assumed that they've always swung that way. But if you don't woo him, then he never swung that way, just as Alistair isn't hardened even though I didn't harden him.