6813 réponses à ce sujet

[silver-crescent]

Actually, even after it was known there were bi romances, it wasn't revealed who they were until the game was out. I for one thought Morrigan was the f/f option for the longest time, I only found out that wasn't the case on my second playthrough, as a female character.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

you don't need a book that gives details on the destructive capabilities of blood magic to learn about that! "Here's a blueprint of what spells to use to make someone's blood boil from inside them and splatter them everywhere! Oh but don't use it, that's a no no" A sword is not as dangerous as exploding a man everywhere when he can't do anything to stop you

He had Winter's Grasp, arcane bolt, flame blast, Stonefist I think, Heal, Arcane Shield, that's off the top of my head. And obviously a couple of blood magic spells. I'll play it again and send you a PM when I see the rest. Sound good?

And what proof is there that the books taught him how to use it? Instead of just the basis of how one would use it and how their are measures of defense against it? 

A sword is still a weapon. That's exactly what blood magic is. A very dangerous weapon. There are books en masse about guns, handling guns, and the such. 

They weren't being taught BM. They were told why it was dangerous and examples of how people used it. Such a thing would be valuable for identfying other blood mages and protecting themselves. 

That's a pretty bland list of spells. 

Which BM spells? The only one I remember was that one point in BM. Just enough to unlock it. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 février 2011 - 11:48 .

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

and so because he's messed up badly twice, but sincerely wants to redeem himself you should be entitled to be his executioner (I realize there is a dialogue option for that, but still )? Just because you hate him he should die? I agree with Ravenstar, if anything there should be pity not hatred against him.

He caused the slaughter of nearly countless people! Yes he deserves execution! 

You forget all those corpses at Redcliffe? Those were people! People who died because of his stupidity! 

The DEMON did all that! Not Jowan! Jowan was indirectly responsible!

Jowan is the reason the Demon was there in the first place. 

Jowan poisoned Eamon. 
Jowan tutored Conner without teaching him about the dangers of demons. 

Jowan was the catalyst. All of that blood is on his hands. 

Isolde's stupidity made his actions possible. But Jowan's practice of blood magic is what led to him being on the run, led him to being captured by Loghain, led to him poisoning Eamon, led to Conner flippig out, led to the Redcliffe slaughter. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 février 2011 - 11:52 .

[Count Viceroy]

Even without the demon, his crimes still warrants execution for high treason.

[The Ethereal Writer]

like I said, that was off the top of my head.



I think he also knew Walking bomb, which by itself is not that bad. The problem was though DA:O had many useless spells that us players never really used. I also taught him Paralyze.



But a sword is not AS dangerous as Blood Magic. I could kill someone from 30 feet away with BM and they can't do anything to stop me, but a sword takes up close combat, where I might lose. I just don't see the logic in keeping books, that have details on the spells, available to mages.



He had said that he had looked through a little of a book.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Ryzaki wrote...

He caused the slaughter of nearly countless people! Yes he deserves execution! 

You forget all those corpses at Redcliffe? Those were people! People who died because of his stupidity! 

While he is to blame for what happened with Arl Eamon, personally, I don't hold him responsible for what happened with Connor (and by extension the people of Redcliffe). I think trying to help Connor was actually one of the better things he tried to do, it just backfired horribly like everything else in his life. He probably thought helping Connor control his magic might somehow make up for what he was doing to Eamon, which he knew was wrong but was already neck deep in. He likely also thought Connor deserved to stay with a mother who loved him, since his own mother never did.

Count Viceroy wrote...

Even without the demon, his crimes still warrants execution for high treason.

Possibly, but for all he knew he was acting on orders of the father of the queen.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 21 février 2011 - 11:55 .

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

like I said, that was off the top of my head.

I think he also knew Walking bomb, which by itself is not that bad. The problem was though DA:O had many useless spells that us players never really used. I also taught him Paralyze.

But a sword is not AS dangerous as Blood Magic. I could kill someone from 30 feet away with BM and they can't do anything to stop me, but a sword takes up close combat, where I might lose. I just don't see the logic in keeping books, that have details on the spells, available to mages.

He had said that he had looked through a little of a book.

It's not. You taught him? Wait he leveled up in the fade?  

A sword is as dangerous as the arm that wields it. A gun is as dangerous as the arm that wields it. 

I don't see the logic in keeping people ignorant and weak instead of informed and protected. 

Looking through a book doesn't mean it gave him step by step instuctions. It could've given him theory and he drew conclusions from there. 

[Ianamus]

silver-crescent wrote...

Actually, even after it was known there were bi romances, it wasn't revealed who they were until the game was out. I for one thought Morrigan was the f/f option for the longest time, I only found out that wasn't the case on my second playthrough, as a female character.

Then I guess we won't know for certain until the game comes out. Well, It's fairly obviously Isabela for the f/f, but we won't know who the male one is. I just hope these people who keep saying "everyone's bi" won't be too dissapointed if it turns out they're wrong (and I have a feeling they are).

[The Ethereal Writer]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Even without the demon, his crimes still warrants execution for high treason.

Loghain was the real catalyst, but unfortunately this was when Loghain was still a hero, so Jowan had no reason to not believe him, though he definitely should've found it odd that a good man like Eamon was a threat. Who knows what lies Loghain might've fed to Jowan.

[Ryzaki]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...
Not all of it. Part of it goes to Isolde and Loghain.

True. I forgot about that screeching harpy and the paranoid General. 

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
While he is to blame for what happened with Arl Eamon, personally, I don't hold him responsible for what happened with Connor (and by extension the people of Redcliffe). I think trying to help Connor was actually one of the better things he tried to do, it just backfired horribly like everything else in his life. He probably thought helping Connor control his magic might somehow make up for what he was doing to Eamon, which he knew was wrong but was already neck deep in. He likely also thought Connor deserved to stay with a mother who loved him, since his own mother never did.

Conner never would've been tempted by the Desire Demon had Jowan not poisoned his father. 

Jowan, unless he was blind or stupid (though the jury is stll out on that one) would've known demons prey on fears and desires. He should've realized that unexperieced mages (especially if you told him about the Harrowing!) are prime prey for said demons.  Poisoning Conner's father would've lead to the boy being desperate for his father to get better.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 février 2011 - 11:58 .

[Count Viceroy]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

Even without the demon, his crimes still warrants execution for high treason.

Loghain was the real catalyst, but unfortunately this was when Loghain was still a hero, so Jowan had no reason to not believe him, though he definitely should've found it odd that a good man like Eamon was a threat. Who knows what lies Loghain might've fed to Jowan.

Who ever his employer was is irrelevant. He was the assassin. End of story.

[The Ethereal Writer]

Ryzaki wrote...

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

like I said, that was off the top of my head.

I think he also knew Walking bomb, which by itself is not that bad. The problem was though DA:O had many useless spells that us players never really used. I also taught him Paralyze.

But a sword is not AS dangerous as Blood Magic. I could kill someone from 30 feet away with BM and they can't do anything to stop me, but a sword takes up close combat, where I might lose. I just don't see the logic in keeping books, that have details on the spells, available to mages.

He had said that he had looked through a little of a book.

It's not. You taught him? Wait he leveled up in the fade?  


A sword is as dangerous as the arm that wields it. A gun is as dangerous as the arm that wields it. 

I don't see the logic in keeping people ignorant and weak instead of informed and protected. 

Looking through a book doesn't mean it gave him step by step instuctions. It could've given him theory and he drew conclusions from there. 

Yea go on the Dragon Age wiki for Jowan, go to the talk page, I'm Lying Memories. I thought it was a bug at first.

you can educate someone on the dangers of something without giving them all the details they need to know. I know how dangerous an atomic bomb is, through school. Am I making one?



*leaves no answer*



but seriously no I'm not.

[lilliful]

EJ107 wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

Actually, even after it was known there were bi romances, it wasn't revealed who they were until the game was out. I for one thought Morrigan was the f/f option for the longest time, I only found out that wasn't the case on my second playthrough, as a female character.

Then I guess we won't know for certain until the game comes out. Well, It's fairly obviously Isabela for the f/f, but we won't know who the male one is. I just hope these people who keep saying "everyone's bi" won't be too dissapointed if it turns out they're wrong (and I have a feeling they are).

I can't hear you over my optimism!
Ah well, even if we're wrong, which we aren't, I think it's better to have had fun believing everything would work out awesomely for awhile before the crushing depression sets in.

Modifié par lilliful, 21 février 2011 - 11:59 .

[Raraptor]

lilliful wrote...
I can't hear you over my optimism!
Ah well, even if we're wrong, which we aren't, I think it's better to have had fun believing everything would work out awesomely for awhile before the crushing depression sets in.

Optimistic indeed! I also doubt everyone would be bisexual (would be too good to be true), but you can never know until you actually play it. I really hope both girls are bisexual, that would be so awesome. <3

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...
Yea go on the Dragon Age wiki for Jowan, go to the talk page, I'm Lying Memories. I thought it was a bug at first.

you can educate someone on the dangers of something without giving them all the details they need to know. I know how dangerous an atomic bomb is, through school. Am I making one?
*leaves no answer*

but seriously no I'm not.

That's weird. 

You have yet to prove they taught him blood magic. You can teach yourself skills just with theory. Hell that and trial and error is how a lot of people originally learned things. 

Why would you need the dangers of an atomic weapon that you can't build without a vast amount of resources? This isn't like a gun that you can buy off the street or have some person sit right next to you and teach you how to use it within days . An atomic bomb isn't pumping itself through your veins. You don't(or at lesat most don't) have the desire to use an atomic bomb to bend someone to their will without fail. The two aren't comparable. One allows you to manipulate another person without them being able to stop it, the other is merely a weapon. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 février 2011 - 12:05 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

Ryzaki wrote...

Conner never would've been tempted had Jowan not poisoned his father. 

Jowan, unless he was blind or stupid (though the jury is stll out on that one) would've known demons prey on fears and desires. Poisoning Conner's father would've lead to the boy being desperate for his father to get better.

There's no way he could have known that would have happened. It's easy to make the connection in hindsight, but come on. Jowan himself has had plenty of desires (for his mother's acceptance, for Lily, for forgiveness), but he never became a demon. It's not like every time tragedy befalls a mage they suddenly become possessed.

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

Loghain was the real catalyst, but unfortunately this was when Loghain was still a hero, so Jowan had no reason to not believe him, though he definitely should've found it odd that a good man like Eamon was a threat. Who knows what lies Loghain might've fed to Jowan.

How would he even know Eamon was a good man? He's been locked up in the Tower since childhood. All he knows is the Hero of Ferelden (and the Queen's father) thinks Eamon is a threat to the Queen, and that Eamon apparently has a poor opinion of mages. No reason to trust the guy, really. That still doesn't make an assassination attempt acceptable behavior, but... Well, if I can forgive Zevran from the innumerable political assassinations he's committed, I can forgive Jowan for the one botched one. I think people hold it against Jowan more because A, he's a blood mage, and B, we're meant to sympathise with Eamon.

EDIT: I don't think I'm going to post on this anymore since I just realixed how horrifically off-topic it is. I saw the conversation going and was so interested in it I lost sight of the fact that I was helping a massive derailing. Oh well. ;;;

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 22 février 2011 - 12:11 .

[The Ethereal Writer]

People in Ferelden generally hear about the important figures in their culture, especially given Eamon's role in the War with Orlais 30 years prior to DA:O. And I agree with that last sentence Ravenstar

[Ryzaki]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
There's no way he could have known that would have happened. It's easy to make the connection in hindsight, but come on. Jowan himself has had plenty of desires (for his mother's acceptance, for Lily, for forgiveness), but he never became a demon. It's not like every time tragedy befalls a mage they suddenly become possessed.

Jowan was taken to the circle at a young age and taught about demons. Conner has no such knowledge. If nothing else he should've taught Conner about them instead he teaches Conner nearly none of the dangers of his magic. He didn't become a demon because he was aware of what they were and the dangers they represented (if nothing else). Conner was a child, didn't know what the hell a demon was, and had a lot of natural ability. 

This isn't something that should come out of left field for a mage especially not given the Harrowing. 

Not knowing that would happen? So I suppose mages aren't taught about abominations? What they can become? 

They leave books around about blood magic but not abominations and how demons tempt mages? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 février 2011 - 12:11 .

[lilliful]

Raraptor wrote...

lilliful wrote...
I can't hear you over my optimism!
Ah well, even if we're wrong, which we aren't, I think it's better to have had fun believing everything would work out awesomely for awhile before the crushing depression sets in.

Optimistic indeed! I also doubt everyone would be bisexual (would be too good to be true), but you can never know until you actually play it. I really hope both girls are bisexual, that would be so awesome. <3

I'm not even a Merill fangirl and I can't see how she wouldn't be bi! She just seems so fluffy... she has to be! Kick reason to the curb... who do you think Hawke is!? </obscure gurren-lagann joke> Hawke can win over everyone! Don't doubt it~

[The Ethereal Writer]

Ryzaki wrote...

The Ethereal Writer wrote...
Yea go on the Dragon Age wiki for Jowan, go to the talk page, I'm Lying Memories. I thought it was a bug at first.

you can educate someone on the dangers of something without giving them all the details they need to know. I know how dangerous an atomic bomb is, through school. Am I making one?
*leaves no answer*

but seriously no I'm not.

That's weird. 

You have yet to prove they taught him blood magic. You can teach yourself skills just with theory. Hell that and trial and error is how a lot of people originally learned things. 

Why would you need the dangers of an atomic weapon that you can't build without a vast amount of resources? This isn't like a gun that you can buy off the street or have some person sit right next to you and teach you how to use it within days . An atomic bomb isn't pumping itself through your veins. You don't(or at lesat most don't) have the desire to use an atomic bomb to bend someone to their will without fail. The two aren't comparable. One allows you to manipulate another person without them being able to stop it, the other is merely a weapon. 

but you still have to know how to operate a gun. There is more to know than just aiming and pulling the trigger. You have to keep it clean so it won't jam, buy the proper ammo. and all manner of things. We bent Japan to surrender with our nuclear bombs. We bent them to our will after two bomb droppings.  After that, people recognized the threat of a nuke, so they became more than just a bluff.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...


but you still have to know how to operate a gun. There is more to know than just aiming and pulling the trigger. You have to keep it clean so it won't jam, buy the proper ammo. and all manner of things. We bent Japan to surrender with our nuclear bombs. We bent them to our will after two bomb droppings.  After that, people recognized the threat of a nuke, so they became more than just a bluff.

And that's where trial and error come in. People aren't mindless and only follow what a book says. 

And plenty of books teach about gun care. Why wouldn't they? 

Nuke's a double edged sword. That's why no one in their right minds use them lightly. They're great scare techniques but if they ever became widely used it would come back to bite everyone in the ass. Then of course is the fact that they do a lot of splash damage. BM not so much. 

BM also has the ability to paralyze peope and manipulate their very bodies. Much more useful than a nuke  weapon. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 février 2011 - 12:16 .

[SirGladiator]

Its not like anybody expected the romances to be 'unrestricted', as the review put it. I for one always assumed, back when everybody thought Aveline was an LI, that she would be the male-only LI and that the other two would be unrestricted, and then when we found out that she wasn't one, that Isabella would be the only one. But when they made an announcement clearly stating that you can romance any of the four LIs (which I believe is on page 1 of this very thread) and when a subsequent review of the game came out and said flat out that the romances are unrestricted by gender, its hard to come to any conclusion other than the most obvious one, that the announcement, and the review, are all correct. If they're all wrong, that would indeed be disappointing, as well as quite surprising. Of course we'll know for certain in a couple of weeks, maybe even sooner. In the meantime, I'm going to assume that since everything we've heard so far points in the same direction, that direction is correct. Yay .

[The Ethereal Writer]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

EDIT: I don't think I'm going to post on this anymore since I just realixed how horrifically off-topic it is. I saw the conversation going and was so interested in it I lost sight of the fact that I was helping a massive derailing. Oh well. ;;;

No don't leave!! We want you to stay! I do anyway! Ima cry if you leave 

do you want that?

[Ryzaki]

SirGladiator wrote...

Its not like anybody expected the romances to be 'unrestricted', as the review put it. I for one always assumed, back when everybody thought Aveline was an LI, that she would be the male-only LI and that the other two would be unrestricted, and then when we found out that she wasn't one, that Isabella would be the only one. But when they made an announcement clearly stating that you can romance any of the four LIs (which I believe is on page 1 of this very thread) and when a subsequent review of the game came out and said flat out that the romances are unrestricted by gender, its hard to come to any conclusion other than the most obvious one, that the announcement, and the review, are all correct. If they're all wrong, that would indeed be disappointing, as well as quite surprising. Of course we'll know for certain in a couple of weeks, maybe even sooner. In the meantime, I'm going to assume that since everything we've heard so far points in the same direction, that direction is correct. Yay .

I hope so.

If this ends up like 2-1-2011 I will rage. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 février 2011 - 12:17 .