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[lilliful]

MorningBird wrote...
And the third (and this PURELY speculation on my part) is based off some observations I made in the Fenris thread, when we were still guessing who the voice actor for him could be.

Someone said something along the lines of, "If it's not 'THIS PERSON', I will eat my hat." and a dev was very quick to correct them by suggesting they eat it with salt.  However, when someone CORRECTLY guessed that it was Gideon Emery, absolute silence.

And about 3 hours ago, when people were like "only Fenris and Isabela are going to be bi because of recruitment order," developer was all:

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

The first two followers you meet are Aveline and Varric, neither of whom are love interests. Don't over-generalize.

Q.E.D.

[Ryzaki]

What's Q.E.D?

And don't get your hopes up. Gaider was quick to correct someone about him saying there was only one male/male LI option. That doesn't mean both Fenris and Anders are bi. Just that it wasn't true. 

It's true the straight LI isn't always the first person you meet, (though it's also true that the bi LI is never the first person you meet). 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 février 2011 - 10:10 .

[lilliful]

Ryzaki wrote...

What's Q.E.D?

Regards to wikipedia:

QED is an initialism of the Latin phrase quod erat demonstrandum, which means "what was to be demonstrated". The phrase is traditionally placed in its abbreviated form at the end of a mathematical proof or philosophical argument when what was specified in the enunciation — and in the setting-out — has been exactly restated as the conclusion of the demonstration. The abbreviation thus signals the completion of the proof.

[Ryzaki]

lilliful wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

What's Q.E.D?

Regards to wikipedia:

QED is an initialism of the Latin phrase quod erat demonstrandum, which means "what was to be demonstrated". The phrase is traditionally placed in its abbreviated form at the end of a mathematical proof or philosophical argument when what was specified in the enunciation — and in the setting-out — has been exactly restated as the conclusion of the demonstration. The abbreviation thus signals the completion of the proof.

So its a fancy way of saying "owned?" 

Edit: Hm...ah nevermind I understand it a bit better now. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 février 2011 - 10:09 .

[lilliful]

Ryzaki wrote...

lilliful wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

What's Q.E.D?

Regards to wikipedia:

QED is an initialism of the Latin phrase quod erat demonstrandum, which means "what was to be demonstrated". The phrase is traditionally placed in its abbreviated form at the end of a mathematical proof or philosophical argument when what was specified in the enunciation — and in the setting-out — has been exactly restated as the conclusion of the demonstration. The abbreviation thus signals the completion of the proof.

So its a fancy way of saying "owned?"

Yes, though technically it means "I have demonstrated proof of the thing I set out to prove at the beginning of my argument."

Modifié par lilliful, 23 février 2011 - 10:09 .

[mellifera]

Ryzaki wrote...

yukidama wrote...

What? I honestly don't think they would go through the trouble of making whole new characters solely for the s/s romances, even if they're just NPCs. It's just more practical to develop the group you already have especially when the option is bisexual as opposed to gay, from a game standpoint it takes less manoeuvring to make an established companion bi than making a whole new guy just for that. I dunno, it just makes no sense to me that BioWare would go out of their way to make the m/m romance option a totally different character that isn't part of your integral group. The m/m option is definitely in the group of four that have been revealed, I would bet good money on that.

 

They make NPCs for everything else and I doubt the character would soley be for s/s romances. That wasn't Kelly's only purpose. 

As for practicality would it not be cheaper to have a side character a romance and then not have to deal with writing jealousy convo's/acknowledgement from other character's in the party vs having to do different combinations of jealous dialogue? Then you don't have to deal with variations of dialogue dealing with the character being in a romance with the PC and you then have the ability to make the dialogue more gender specific for both LIs. 

To me it makes sense. 

To me it doesn't because it would be pointless, especially when there's no evidence that they're going to do such a thing.

They did included all options in Origins, why would they change it just to remove the s/s options from your party and then add all those lines and scenes to NPCs? Just because of the banter and a handful of dialogue lines? I think you might be overestimating their cost. Why is Isabela there then? Why would she flirt with both male and female Hawke in such a proactive manner if they're just gonna make her character say "LOL SORRY NO I DON'T DO CHICKS." There are four romance options. The jealousy stuff only has to be written for and between those four. Honestly, altering and adding a few lines, editing a preexisting scene for height differences... that takes a lot less time than making whole new scenes and lines and trying to fit a completely different character into Hawke's life in a meaningful way than those that are already there.

The lack of confirmation of WHO the s/s LI are doesn't mean that within the four people they have announced, none of them are bi. Lack of confirmation of who amongst them is bi =/= confirmation of their absence. I know it's frustrating but this is just way paranoid IMO. Especially when in this thread Priestly said "If you do not like homosexual romances, DO NOT discuss them either. They are optional, just like ALL romances are optional." This is just more evidence that they're sticking to their Origins formula, IMO.

Modifié par yukidama, 23 février 2011 - 10:14 .

[Ryzaki]

lilliful wrote...
Yes, though technically it means "I have demonstrated proof of the thing I set out to prove at the beginning of my argument."

Ah but she was telling the truth. 

Plus there's always the possibility that none of our party members are the bi options. 

[Ryzaki]

yukidama wrote...
To me it doesn't because it would be pointless, especially when there's no evidence that they're going to do such a thing.

Why would it be pointless? 
And there's no evidence that any of the character's are bi romances for Hawke either. Flirting with someone does not a romance make. 

They did included all options in Origins, why would they change it just to remove the s/s options from your party and then add all those lines and scenes to NPCs?

For the same reason they changed many of the things in orgins to begin with. Maybe they just preferred it or thought it worked better. 

Just because of the banter and a handful of dialogue lines? I think you might be overestimating their cost. Why is Isabela there then? Why would she flirt with both male and female Hawke in such a proactive manner if they're just gonna make her character say "LOL SORRY NO I DON'T DO CHICKS."

Realism. There are plenty of people who will have sex with both genders but only will have a deeper relationship with thse of only the opposite sex. It could easily be part of her character.

There are four romance options. The jealousy stuff only has to be written for and between those four. Honestly, altering and adding a few lines, editing a preexisting scene for height differences... that takes a lot less time than making whole new scenes and lines and trying to fit a completely different character into Hawke's life in a meaningful way than those that are already there.

With multiple permutations. Where's with a seperate LI there would be none of that. And altering and adding a few lines is still VO and still time. Also editing a preexisting scene is far harder than you give it credit for. In some situations it would probably be better to start off from scratch. 

And they already made new scenes and lines with the characters already there. Characters that in situations can be optional. BW isn't scared of creating content that is missable. 

And then of course is the fact that for some characters a bi romance might simply not be in character. 

The lack of confirmation of WHO the s/s LI are doesn't mean that within the four people they have announced, none of them are bi. Lack of confirmation of who amongst them is bi =/= confirmation of their absence. I know it's frustrating but this is just way paranoid IMO.

It doesn't mean any (and especially not all) of them are bi either. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 février 2011 - 10:18 .

[lilliful]

Ryzaki wrote...

Plus there's always the possibility that none of our party members are the bi options.

And there's always the possibility that I told you so <3 You should just come to the dark side. We believe in sexual favors and hot fanfic.

[MorningBird]

Ryzaki wrote...

What's Q.E.D?

And don't get your hopes up. Gaider was quick to correct someone about him saying there was only one male/male LI option. That doesn't mean both Fenris and Anders are bi. Just that it wasn't true. 

It's true the straight LI isn't always the first person you meet, (though it's also true that the bi LI is never the first person you meet). 

This was me. lol

[mesmerizedish]

MorningBird wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Brawne wrote...

Mmm, Cassandra, I'm in love. And that accent...
Compared to Cassandra both Isabela and Merril look like cave trolls.
Whyyyyyy, Bioware, whyyyy...

... I don't even know where to begin

Begin with admitting that you ship Varric/Cassandra.

I had never thought about it, actually, but now that you mention it... that'd be awesome. BioWare, make this happen.

Maria Caliban wrote...

Liliandra Nadiar wrote...

Though I also wouldn't put it past BW to make Isabela 'straight' for DA2.

I have no idea why you think this would happen. It makes less sense than the 'they're all bi' crowd*.


*And I say this with love Ishmael.

You're sweet <3

MorningBird wrote...

Well, there are a few reasons why they would keep it a secret.

The first is that they actually have no obligation to tell us anything. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie] lol

The second is that they feed on the human suffering of their fans.

And
the third (and this PURELY speculation on my part) is based off some
observations I made in the Fenris thread, when we were still guessing
who the voice actor for him could be.

Someone said something
along the lines of, "If it's not 'THIS PERSON', I will eat my hat." and a
dev was very quick to correct them by suggesting they eat it with
salt.  However, when someone CORRECTLY guessed that it was Gideon Emery,
absolute silence.

That being said, I think that if all of the
LI's weren't bi, someone would have mentioned it by now, or at least
cleared up some of the word confusion in both that one game article
(which said you could persue anyone, be they man, woman, or a human
possessed by the spirit of Justice) and the first post of this thread
(which says "These are your love interests, pitch your woo
accordingly.")

But no one has bothered to correct
ishmaeltheforsaken, who is saying, "They ARE all bi." Not "I think
they're all bi."  or the article, or even Chris's post... which leads me
to believe that there's simply NO REASON to correct them (because
they're right. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie] lol)

It just seems suspicious to me, so I too am choosing to believe they're all bi. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]  Which is actually kind of funny.

I THINK WE HAVE SWITCHED POSITIONS, RYZAKI.  Just think, a few hundred pages ago, I said I was being pessimistic. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

In fairness, ish is physically incapable of being corrected. Anyone who contradicts her is, by definition, trolling. It's been scientifically proven. It also has absolutely nothing to do with reality.

Given the writers' propensity for indulging in fan tears, I'm very suspicious of Ms. Hepler's timely comment. My only thought toward that is, "Like we haven't been making generalizations for over a hundred and seventy pages?" Why does she speak up now? I'll tell you why. She's trolling us.

Also, they're all bi. I don't even know why there's still any discussion <_<

[Ryzaki]

lilliful wrote...
And there's always the possibility that I told you so You should just come to the dark side. We believe in sexual favors and hot fanfic.

Tempting but no. I'll be over here. 

MorningBird wrote...
This was me.  lol

lulz. 

Also, they're all bi. I don't even know why there's still any discussion

Because they aren't. I doubt any of them at all are bi. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 février 2011 - 10:25 .

[MorningBird]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
I had never thought about it, actually, but now that you mention it... that'd be awesome. BioWare, make this happen.

After seeing the exchanges between the two of them in the interrogation room, I ship these two together so hard.

[Maelora]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
Also, they're all bi. I don't even know why there's still any discussion <_<

I seem to have converted Ryzaki to being a Debbie Downer!

But I hope you're right and they are all bi.
 
While I'm making wishes, can I have a pony?

[lilliful]

Maelora wrote...
 
While I'm making wishes, can I have a pony?

Yes. It will be a bisexual pony, though. Just saying.

Modifié par lilliful, 23 février 2011 - 10:26 .

[Ryzaki]

Maelora wrote...
I seem to have converted Ryzaki to being a Debbie Downer! 

But I hope you're right and they are all bi.
 
While I'm making wishes, can I have a pony?

Pfft. A Debbie? 

Nah. I just embraced my inner pessimist.  

The bi option will be Kelly Chamberish. You'll even get a stripdance before Hawke mysterious disappear and after you've captured him/her from bandits who slaughtered everyone else infront of him/her. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 février 2011 - 10:28 .

[mesmerizedish]

lilliful wrote...

Maelora wrote...
 
While I'm making wishes, can I have a pony?

Yes. It will be a bisexual pony, though. Just saying.

I lol'd.

[mesmerizedish]

Ryzaki wrote...

Maelora wrote...
I seem to have converted Ryzaki to being a Debbie Downer! 

But I hope you're right and they are all bi.
 
While I'm making wishes, can I have a pony?

Pfft. A Debbie? 

Nah. I just embraced my inner pessimist. 

Your inner pessimist is bi and doesn't want all the attention redirected away from her.

[upsettingshorts]

It's futile to waste effort on speculating that they've changed the paradigm, considering the assumption that they've even done so is based on little more than paranoia.

[Ryzaki]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
Your inner pessimist is bi and doesn't want all the attention redirected away from her.

My inner pessimist is asexual because she doesn't trust anyone not to strangle her during sex. 

[mellifera]

Ryzaki wrote...

yukidama wrote...
To me it doesn't because it would be pointless, especially when there's no evidence that they're going to do such a thing.

Why would it be pointless? 
And there's no evidence that any of the character's are bi romances for Hawke either. Flirting with someone does not a romance make. 

They did included all options in Origins, why would they change it just to remove the s/s options from your party and then add all those lines and scenes to NPCs?

For the same reason they changed many of the things in orgins to begin with. Maybe they just preferred it or thought it worked better. 

Just because of the banter and a handful of dialogue lines? I think you might be overestimating their cost. Why is Isabela there then? Why would she flirt with both male and female Hawke in such a proactive manner if they're just gonna make her character say "LOL SORRY NO I DON'T DO CHICKS."

Realism. There are plenty of people who will have sex with both genders but only will have a deeper relationship with thse of only the opposite sex. It could easily be part of her character.

There are four romance options. The jealousy stuff only has to be written for and between those four. Honestly, altering and adding a few lines, editing a preexisting scene for height differences... that takes a lot less time than making whole new scenes and lines and trying to fit a completely different character into Hawke's life in a meaningful way than those that are already there.

With multiple permutations. Where's with a seperate LI there would be none of that. And altering and adding a few lines is still VO and still time. Also editing a preexisting scene is far harder than you give it credit for. In some situations it would probably be better to start off from scratch. 

And they already made new scenes and lines with the characters already there. Characters that in situations can be optional. BW isn't scared of creating content that is missable. 

And then of course is the fact that for some characters a bi romance might simply not be in character. 

The lack of confirmation of WHO the s/s LI are doesn't mean that within the four people they have announced, none of them are bi. Lack of confirmation of who amongst them is bi =/= confirmation of their absence. I know it's frustrating but this is just way paranoid IMO.

It doesn't mean any (and especially not all) of them are bi either. 

Okay, whatever. Keep on believing that if you want to, but not even my extremely pessimistic nature is going to convince me that they're gonna have two random NPCs be the s/s options just to mess with people who want s/s LI because.... I guess they don't want to taint the real party members with le ghei or something? I have no clue.  I don't see how not including s/s LI within your party is something they'd feel would work better than in Origins. It just doesn't make sense to me, sorry.

Even if altering the scene a little bit to compensate for like, a couple inches of height difference is so extremely difficult that they have to make whole new scenes, why would they make it for NPCs  when the very same resources could go into making that scene for the s/s options within your party?

As for Isabela specifically, it seems to me her character likes both but neither for real relationships and that is going to be something addressed REGARDLESS of your PCs sex. That video from before where she was scoffing at male Hawke over love and such makes that fairly clear.

I wasn't saying all of them are bi either, but I still think it is pessimistic paranoia to assume that NONE of them are either (or that you can only get them if you pay/can only have s/s relationships with NPCs not relevant to the greater story).

[mesmerizedish]

yukidama wrote...

[snip]

All I could think about while I read that was your signature... it was awesome.

[EDIT] I'm allowed to say irrelevent and off-topic things because I'm not actually a part of your conversation. Just throwing that out there.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 23 février 2011 - 10:36 .

[Ryzaki]

Okay, whatever. Keep on believing that if you want to, but not even my extremely pessimistic nature is going to convince me that they're gonna have two random NPCs be the s/s options just to mess with people who want s/s LI because.... I guess they don't want to taint the real party members with le ghei or something? I have no clue. I don't see how not including s/s LI within your party is something they'd feel would work better than in Origins. It just doesn't make sense to me, sorry.

It's fine. I'm not demanding you see it my way. 

Even if altering the scene a little bit to compensate for like, a couple inches of height difference is so extremely difficult that they have to make whole new scenes, why would they make it for NPCs when the very same resources could go into making that scene for the s/s options within your party?

As for Isabela specifically, it seems to me her character likes both but neither for real relationships and that is going to be something addressed REGARDLESS of your PCs sex. That video from before where she was scoffing at male Hawke over love and such makes that fairly clear.

Indeed but I was just drawing a parallel to an actual held view. 

As for why I offered reasoning: Maybe they just like it the other way better, maybe they don't see certain characters as bisexual. 

And again there's plenty of content in origins that most people don't even see that was voice acted and the like. 

I wasn't saying all of them are bi either, but I still think it is pessimistic paranoia to assume that NONE of them are either (or that you can only get them if you pay/can only have s/s relationships with NPCs not relevant to the greater story).

True it's a bit paranoid but rather to expect the worst and be pleasant surprised. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 février 2011 - 10:38 .

[lilliful]

Ryzaki wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
Your inner pessimist is bi and doesn't want all the attention redirected away from her.

My inner pessimist is asexual because she doesn't trust anyone not to strangle her during sex. 

In reward for your continued doubting, your inner pessimist is now your only bisexual romance option. That's cool though, I totally slash you with your inner pessimist. Pic relevant.

[mesmerizedish]

lilliful wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
Your inner pessimist is bi and doesn't want all the attention redirected away from her.

My inner pessimist is asexual because she doesn't trust anyone not to strangle her during sex. 

In reward for your continued doubting, your inner pessimist is now your only bisexual romance option. That's cool though, I totally slash you with your inner pessimist. Pic relevant.

So, who would win in a fight?