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[mesmerizedish]

The screenshots are not fake, the magazine articles are not fake. There has been a multitude of tidbits to suggest that there are no gender-based restrictions and nothing to suggest otherwise save that it's never been done before. If any game developer were to take this step, it would be BioWare, and it WILL be BioWare. Stop claiming that the evidence is somehow "faked" and professing it as fact despite a complete lack of evidence to support it.

[Maria Caliban]

I'm still betting that they're not all bi, by the way. Even if your thread was locked.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'm still betting that they're not all bi, by the way. Even if your thread was locked.

I've had words about that. No one has had words back, though

You'll see, though. You'll all see.

[Ryzaki]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'm still betting that they're not all bi, by the way. Even if your thread was locked.

I've had words about that. No one has had words back, though

You'll see, though. You'll all see.

Yup Just Six More Days. 

Time needs to hurry up. 

[mesmerizedish]

Ryzaki wrote...

Yup Just Six More Days. 

Time needs to hurry up. 

I know, right? I'm getting so sick of waiting. I don't think I was this antsy even before Oblivion was released

[Addai]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

The screenshots are not fake, the magazine articles are not fake. There has been a multitude of tidbits to suggest that there are no gender-based restrictions and nothing to suggest otherwise save that it's never been done before. If any game developer were to take this step, it would be BioWare, and it WILL be BioWare. Stop claiming that the evidence is somehow "faked" and professing it as fact despite a complete lack of evidence to support it.

And how do you know that you know what you think you know?

Despite that I agree with you they're probably all bisexual, the hammer insistence that it's so and the seeming need to shut down anyone who questions it makes you (and a couple others) seem rather obsessive about it.  Does it really matter all that much?  Is there nothing else to talk about?

Gah, after weeks of speculation on the LIs and now the frenzy over which are bisexual, it's nuts.  Heaven forfend we can't boink anything that moves in Thedas. 

[Azjurai]

Makes more sense for everyone to be bi in this case anyway.

Human + Elf = Human. So even if Merrill goes with a male Hawke it's not like any resulting kid(s) really fit into a clan of wandering elves when the mother is a keeper(?). Loving the ladies avoids this issue nicely.

Anders thing. We don't know what spirits think about gender, if anything. We also don't know how much sway that does/not hold on Anders thinking. Given the little we know of spirits/demons though, they don't seem to care where the emotions come from.

Modifié par Azjurai, 02 mars 2011 - 07:45 .

[mesmerizedish]

Addai67 wrote...

And how do you know that you know what you think you know?

Despite that I agree with you they're probably all bisexual, the hammer insistence that it's so and the seeming need to shut down anyone who questions it makes you (and a couple others) seem rather obsessive about it.  Does it really matter all that much?  Is there nothing else to talk about?

Gah, after weeks of speculation on the LIs and now the frenzy over which are bisexual, it's nuts.  Heaven forfend we can't boink anything that moves in Thedas. 

Haha, no, there's not much else to talk about, to be honest. I don't try to shut down people who disagree. It's when people claim that the pics are fake with absolutely no evidence whatsoever that I "shut them down." I answer reasonable deviances from my view reasonably. MasterScribe is not reasonable.

[DarthSliver]

Haha so I just came up with a lame joke, wonder if its been done before. But it helps the argument i think.

All LI are bi, its in Biowares name.

[MorningBird]

Addai67 wrote...
And how do you know that you know what you think you know?

Despite that I agree with you they're probably all bisexual, the hammer insistence that it's so and the seeming need to shut down anyone who questions it makes you (and a couple others) seem rather obsessive about it.  Does it really matter all that much?  Is there nothing else to talk about?

Gah, after weeks of speculation on the LIs and now the frenzy over which are bisexual, it's nuts.  Heaven forfend we can't boink anything that moves in Thedas. 

To be fair, I don't really think it's about 'boinking' everything that moves.  At least not for me.  For me, it's about giving players choice.

For example, I really like Zevran and Leliana as characters, so I had no qualms with romancing them.  However, they were not everyone's cup of tea, and some people were... quite vocal about their dislike for these characters.  While romances are by no means forced upon anyone (as they are optional) for some members of the gay community (and players who simply wanted to role a gay/lesbian Warden) it was a bit of a letdown to realize you had no real choice where gay romances were concerned.  It was Zevran or no one, or Leliana or no one.

Before I go into more detail, let me stress that I would never play Dragon Age if it was just a game where the main objective  was to 'bionk' someone.  I personally have no interest in dating sims.  However, I like fantasy games.  I like the combat and storyline of Dragon Age.  I like the characters.  I like RPGs.  I like BioWare.  To me, there's a lot more to these games than just 'the opportunity to bionk someone'.  Because the characters are so well developed and engaging, I personally find the romances an enriching experience that increase my overall appreciation of the game.

For that reason, I find it a little depressing that not everyone can enjoy the romances the way I did, because not everyone liked Zevran and Leliana, and not everyone wants to play as the opposite sex, or assume a sexuality that is not their own.  Gay and lesbian gamers don't have an overwhelming number of opportunities to play the hero that THEY want to be due to game constraints, and in an RPG, this is unfortunate, because it creates a breeding ground for disagreement.

Example: even before the LIs were announced, people had established preferences for who they would prefer as a bi LI.  Some people didn't want Varric because he was a dwarf.  Some people didn't want Fenris because he was an elf.  Some people didn't want Anders because he was an abomination.  The same arguments happened with the female characters.  Aveline is too 'manish'.  Isabela's too loose.  Merrill looks like a teenager.  Even though these preferences are somewhat superficial, they're still preferences, and I don't think anyone should be snubbed because of them.

If you're firmly rooted in your preference, and there is only one bi LI who goes against those preferences, than for those people the 'romance content' that enriches the storyline is once again blocked off.  Frankly, this makes me sad, and that's why I became vocal about it.

I don't discuss gameplay or storyline because hey, I'm happy with those features.  It's as they say, people are usually quite about the things they like.  The area of the game I'd like to see improved is the accessibility of romances, so I talk about it.  A lot.  And I find it a bit offensive when people insinuate that the only reason someone would be interested in expanding romances is because they want to 'boink everything that moves.'

I also like the combat, so does that mean I'm some kind of deranged serial killer in real life?  I like fantasy RPGs, so does that mean I dress up in cosplay and run around LARPing in my free time?

No.  It doesn't.  So how does liking a feature like romance = only interested in boinking?  This logic escapes me.

Addressing this comment of yours: "Does it really matter all that much?"

It does.  Straight players who play straight characters know who they can romance.  There are no gay exclusive characters, so if they're a female and a LI, male protagonists can romance them.  If they're a male LI, female protagonists can romance them.

For gay/lesbian characters... we still know nothing.  Knowing who straight players who play straight characters can romance doesn't tell us anything about the kind of romances our characters can engage in, and for some, it does matter, because it creates this feeling that you're being excluded for no given reason.

"Is there nothing else to talk about?"

As I stated previously, I personally don't have much else to talk about.  Sad as it is, there's only so much you can say when you actually like something before professing your joy begins to sound redundant.  But when you'd like to see something improved--or better yet--firmly believe that something has been improved--there's a swell of words to say, especially when the developers give no official confirmation.

It creates a tense environment of nerves, and one way of calming those nerves... is to talk about it with other people.

Modifié par MorningBird, 02 mars 2011 - 09:11 .

[HolyJellyfish]

I just hope that one way or the other, if all the LIs are bisexual or if only two of the options are, that neither party (THEY ARE ALL BI vs THEY AREN'T ALL BI!) start spreading threads around gloating.

No one likes a gloat. Keep the gloat to yourself. It'll be a great game either way.

[MorningBird]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

I just hope that one way or the other, if all the LIs are bisexual or if only two of the options are, that neither party (THEY ARE ALL BI vs THEY AREN'T ALL BI!) start spreading threads around gloating.

No one likes a gloat. Keep the gloat to yourself. It'll be a great game either way.

Well, I can't vouche for everyone, but the majority of people who participate in the 'they are bi' 'they aren't bi' back and forth just do it for fun, with no ill intent.  We all know we're joking, and we generally all have fun debating together.

I don't plan to flaunt if I'm right, but I do plan to be happy.

If I'm wrong, well, I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth.  BioWare does do more for their gay/lesbian/bi players than most other game companies, and I understand having all bi LI's might not mesh with the game they're trying to create (or that they might not have the resources to pull it off.)  I'll be happy so long as I'm getting 2 s/s romances (one male, one female, as per Origins.)

[mellifera]

Great post, MorningBird.

This part is basically why I am still talking/thinking about it-

MorningBird wrote...
Addressing this comment of yours: "Does it really matter all that much?"

It does.  Straight players who play straight characters know who they can romance.  There are no gay exclusive characters, so if they're a female and a LI, male protagonists can romance them.  If they're a male LI, female protagonists can romance them.

For gay/lesbian characters... we still know nothing.  Knowing who straight players who play straight characters can romance doesn't tell us anything about the kind of romances our characters can engage in, and for some, it does matter, because it creates this feeling that you're being excluded for no given reason.

It just makes ZERO sense to me as to why this is still a secret. It's not like the series having bisexual romance options is a secret to start with. I don't really understand why they won't say who the options for players who choose to play bisexual and gay characters are. Especially when people who prefer playing straight characters always get to know beyond any doubt.

Modifié par yukidama, 02 mars 2011 - 09:10 .

[Maelora]

yukidama wrote...
It just makes ZERO sense to me as to why this is still a secret. It's not like the series having bisexual romance options is a secret to start with. I don't really understand why they won't say who the options for players who choose to play bisexual and gay characters are. Especially when people who prefer playing straight characters always get to know beyond any doubt.

This, a hundred thousand times this.

Bioware has made an effort to shut down all the bi-speculative threads, when they could have just told us what the straights knew on the 14th.

[zrisso]

I blame the moron in charge of marketing. Yes, you know the one--the one from THAT video. :/

[HolyJellyfish]

yukidama wrote...

Great post, MorningBird.

This part is basically why I am still talking/thinking about it-

MorningBird wrote...
Addressing this comment of yours: "Does it really matter all that much?"

It does.  Straight players who play straight characters know who they can romance.  There are no gay exclusive characters, so if they're a female and a LI, male protagonists can romance them.  If they're a male LI, female protagonists can romance them.

For gay/lesbian characters... we still know nothing.  Knowing who straight players who play straight characters can romance doesn't tell us anything about the kind of romances our characters can engage in, and for some, it does matter, because it creates this feeling that you're being excluded for no given reason.

It just makes ZERO sense to me as to why this is still a secret. It's not like the series having bisexual romance options is a secret to start with. I don't really understand why they won't say who the options for players who choose to play bisexual and gay characters are. Especially when people who prefer playing straight characters always get to know beyond any doubt.

I don't know either. I find it rather ridiculous, personally.

It makes me doubt the company somewhat and begin questioning their reasons (since they themselves are not providing clear answers). Is it because they don't want the news to spread like wildfire to other gaming sites and blogs that all the characters are, in fact, bisexual - therefore potentially disenchanting and losing sales to people who are that uncomfortable with the issue? Are they afraid of the PR? Or the negative backlash from fans when the truth comes out that there are no bisexual LIs, but in fact the only Bisexual "LIs" aren't even companions at all?

I can't say.

If anything, it feels like it is hurting them more by not saying anything. Hell, if this sort of news broke out in the Media, DA2 would be scorned by homophobic companies such as Fox News and praised by others. With very little effort and money, they'd be advertising through word of mouth which is the best sort of advertisement.

I really really don't know.

[mellifera]

The thing with romances though, is that aside from those screencaps that weren't even officially posted on any English speaking EA site, the only romance info has been posted here on the forums. The short stories, the confirmations? Only here. It's not even a huge marketing thing across their websites and ad campaigns, and they only show Isabela with male Hawke in some promotional stuff. Since romance stuff is basically kept 100% on the forums (aside from those screencaps), it's just that much more nonsensical. If it's posted on other sites "Ohay, here are the DA2 love interests, there are bisexual options as well just like in Origins", will it really make that much difference? How many sites covered the annoucement of Dragon Age 2 love interests anyway? Pretty much everyone here knows that in DAO there were bisexual options. It didn't stop them from buying and playing the game and it most likely won't this time around either. Keeping it closeted, so to speak, is just irritating.

Modifié par yukidama, 02 mars 2011 - 09:27 .

[mesmerizedish]

zrisso wrote...

I blame the moron in charge of marketing. Yes, you know the one--the one from THAT video. :/

Haha... if it's not EA, it's Mike Silverman XD

[HolyJellyfish]

yukidama wrote...

The thing with romances though, is that aside from those screencaps that weren't even officially posted on any English speaking EA site, the only romance info has been posted here on the forums. The short stories, the confirmations? Only here. It's not even a huge marketing thing across their websites and ad campaigns, and they only show Isabela with male Hawke in some promotional stuff. Since romance stuff is basically kept 100% on the forums (aside from those screencaps), it's just that much more nonsensical. Pretty much everyone here knows that in DAO there were bisexual options. It didn't stop them from buying and playing the game and it most likely won't this time around either. Keeping it closeted, so to speak, is just irritating.

Agreed. But keep in mind a lot more eyes are watching Bioware now after ME2's release. DA:O was awesome, but ME2 has put them in the limelight. They may feel the need to tread more carefully on threads, since information like "Its official. All the characters are LI and Bisexual" could be spun the wrong way on Kotaku. Which would be stupid, IMO. I say, the quicker the word spreads, the better.

[zrisso]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

zrisso wrote...

I blame the moron in charge of marketing. Yes, you know the one--the one from THAT video. :/

Haha... if it's not EA, it's Mike Silverman XD

Ha! Truer words have never been spoken XD

[mellifera]

Eh, I guess. It's just irritating as hell. Then again I guess they do have to tread carefully since homophobe money is just as green as that of the rest of us.

I have to wonder just how many customers they lost when the gay scene with Zevran was played on Jimmy Kimmell or whatever, for example. That was pretty big coverage and DAO wouldn't have been mentioned otherwise, I bet. That's what caught my attention and part of what brought me to DAO. Not the gay sex, per se, but the inclusivity since you can't really get representations of gay/bi characters in most media (and when you do it's usually not in meaningful ways.

Modifié par yukidama, 02 mars 2011 - 09:32 .

[zrisso]

yukidama wrote...

Eh, I guess. It's just irritating as hell. Then again I guess they do have to tread carefully since homophobe money is just as green as that of the rest of us.

I could understand that reasoning if this were the first game. People buying the second game have, most likely, played the first, and know full well that there were bisexual characters in it.

...although, to be fair, homophobes could've been brain dead the first time around and not noticed, maybe? XD

[HolyJellyfish]

yukidama wrote...

Eh, I guess. It's just irritating as hell. Then again I guess they do have to tread carefully since homophobe money is just as green as that of the rest of us.

I know. I HATE it that these sort of precautions have to be made in order to protect the interests and feelings of the enemy, but they are because Bioware and/or EA wants to be successful financially and continue to provide games with those options available.

It is better to surprise homophobic jerks with a "Wait... Why is there a pink golden heart when I'm talking to this Elf gu- OH GOD WHY IS HE SUCKING MY FINGER?!" as opposed to giving them TOO much information and having them deter from buying the game at all.

I can't speak for everyone, but as a bisexual I am quite pleased with the SURPRISE ATTACK HOMOPHOBIC bomb, even at the expense of an announcement. Even then, less spoilers for me. Better immersion. But I can only speak for myself.

[zrisso]

Haha, I think I am going to have to keep my eye out for surprise attack homophobic bombs and have my camera ready.

[HolyJellyfish]

zrisso wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Eh, I guess. It's just irritating as hell. Then again I guess they do have to tread carefully since homophobe money is just as green as that of the rest of us.

I could understand that reasoning if this were the first game. People buying the second game have, most likely, played the first, and know full well that there were bisexual characters in it.

...although, to be fair, homophobes could've been brain dead the first time around and not noticed, maybe? XD

Not true. More people played ME2 than ME1. Then they went back and played ME1. If DA2 has great success, Bioware will start a new trend for themselves.