6813 réponses à ce sujet

[Taleroth]

MasterScribe wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

we'd all be restricted (because DA2 would be like DAO), not just certain people.....

Only if you're obtuse.

Everybody would have 3 romance options...I really only want Merrill

Except they wouldn't.  Gay pairings were limited to a single romance option per gender.

Modifié par Taleroth, 03 mars 2011 - 12:34 .

[Wissenschaft]

Bah, all I care about is Isabela, we shall rule the Kirkwall underworld together!

[falconlord5]

MasterScribe wrote...

falconlord5 wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Is it a crime to want a hetero-exclusive romance with a female companion? Morrigan was rather unsatisfying.

It's not a crime.  It's just nonsense.  I fail to see how the character romancing genders other than your PC's in other people's games affects you.

Well, to be completely fair, this isn't an uncommon notion. To quote TVTropes, "...a lot of both straight and gay people appear to believe that bisexuals are somehow 'cheating' by playing both sides of the field. All may be fair in love and war but there's something about the idea of losing someone to the opposing team that makes the 'betrayal' worse because that's the one level where people who are exclusively straight or gay are either unwilling or unable to compete."

For me, this manifests when Zevran reminds my male Warden that he prefers females. ...like, a lot. When I run a game as a female Warden and enter a romance with Zevran, I always feel a pang of regret and longing on behalf of my male Warden, who will never be what Zevran wants the most. Even though my male Warden is losing Zevran to his alternate reality, female-Warden self (who is, at the end of the day, still me, the player) there's just just something about losing him to the "opposite team" that hurts in a real way.

And I know that it's not rational! But to say that such feelings are completely unfounded would be unfair.

Yeah, a straight monogamous guy like myself has every right to fear that his bisexual girlfriend might leave him for another bisexual girl or lesbian. "She understands me more than you do" or "She's better than you are." That second one really, really, REALLY hurts .......but I digress. I certainly support having bi/gay romances, i'm just apprehensive to the "all bi" thing. But whatever. At least, Merrill will be straight with my male Hawke.

But that's what makes Bi romances so... attractive, if you will. The extra dramatic tension, the additional pain that the characters can go through.

In the case I mentioned, only the third party (the guy) gets hurt...

Hmmph. If you think that leaving a partner isn't painful for both parties (or all three, in this case), you've got another thing coming.

Secondly, so? Anytime a character, even if it's just one, goes through emotional pain, it makes for good storytelling.

[jlb524]

Wissenschaft wrote...

Bah, all I care about is Isabela, we shall rule the Kirkwall underworld together!

I like this plan.

[Taleroth]

MasterScribe wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

we'd all be restricted (because DA2 would be like DAO), not just certain people.....

Only if you're obtuse.

Everybody would have 3 romance options...I really only want Merrill

Except they wouldn't.  Gay pairings were limited to a single romance option.

are you saying that gay players NEVER (or rarely?) romance opposite gender companions?

They don't tend to.  That would be a facet of their orientation.  Preferring same gender pairings.

Romantic choices tend to follow attraction.

Modifié par Taleroth, 03 mars 2011 - 12:38 .

[jlb524]

Mash Mashington wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

Bah, all I care about is Isabela, we shall rule the Kirkwall underworld together!

I agree, romance or no romance

But wouldn't it be more fun ruling together with a romance?

Oh, wait...maybe not.

[Blacklash93]

Would you try to romance a character of the same sex at least once?

[JoshPloof]

Taleroth wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

we'd all be restricted (because DA2 would be like DAO), not just certain people.....

Only if you're obtuse.

Everybody would have 3 romance options...I really only want Merrill

Except they wouldn't.  Gay pairings were limited to a single romance option.

are you saying that gay players NEVER (or rarely?) romance opposite gender companions?

They don't tend to.  That would be a facet of their orientation.  Preferring same gender pairings.

Romantic choices tend to follow attraction.

Eh not necessarily true. I'm gay and there were about 2 playthroughs I romanced Morrigan. I was going to romance leliana on my next playthrough actually but I decided I'm not going to playthrough again because my story from my last DA:O was perfect for importing into DA:2

[Athro]

I think this is boiling down to the same issue that romances always run into - the notion that NPC sexuality is somehow fixed and real outside of the game.

Now some characters can have their sexuality be a defining part of their character - it's an element of what makes them who they are from a storytelling perspective. (Isabella, Zevran.) But some characters can have a kind of zero-state sexuality in regards to story. That means their sexuality isn't linked to their personality as vitally and as such they could be gay or straight and it wont change how they are in the story that is told.

In this case, their sexuality is in a zero-state. It's undefined until the PC chooses to romance them. Then the game goes "the PC wants to romance this character, for this story they will be made Gay/Straight based on the PC gender." From the player's perspective, the character has always been gay/straight. But from a metagame perspective they could be either but not both.

I suspect that this may be the case with DA2 as both the OXM and PC Gamer reviews have kind of implied that all LIs are romanceable regardless of gender without explicitly stating it.

This doesn't technically mean that all LIs are bi - but that all LIs are romanceable and their sexuality is defined by your choices. Just as your choices in the game doesn't mean all the choices happen and are objectively canon, the NPC's sexuality is not canon outside of your playthrough. Just because Merrill starts having a relationship with your fem Hawke doesn't mean she's gay in someone else's game of DA2.

Otherwise Alistair does and doesn't become king at the same time. Loghain does and doesn't join the Grey Wardens.

From a writing perspective, as a writer, characters are not necessarily defined by their sexuality unless it is important to their story. Many characters can be interchanged between straight and bi without having a dramatic effect on their personality. And if you are writing a character to be able to be either sexuality, that can easily be written to prevent contradiction if it has been planned from the start.

To put it another way, if Hawke can be written as a character and be either male or female, straight or bi - why can't the LIs be written to be either gay or straight depending on the game requirements of the player?

It doesn't make every instance of those LIs become bi. I know a lot of people who played Jade Empire who thought Sky was heterosexual because they never came across the option that had him romance the male PC.

It's kind of the same deal here. Of course the truth has yet to be revealed regarding DA2.  We have a little while still before we know for certain.

Conan

[Athro]

MasterScribe wrote...

that's one of the reasons i don't like the "all bi" thing. it's too confusing. i'm not sure how much sexual orientation affects personality and other characteristics (possibly not at all), but it still makes you wonder just how different each romanceable companion will be based on Hawke's gender.

I think you missed my point - they won't be different based on gender. You're overthinking it, that's all.

The only difference will be that the dialogue might have "I've never felt this way before" or something. Minor stuff. The core experience will likely be the same regardless of gender - and it wont be initiated unless you initiate it. So it is possible that the canonically bi characters will initiate a romance in dialogue while a non-canonical bi character who could be gay/straight needs to be pursued.

Regardless, I don't see how it could be confusing if in play you don't have to worry about it - you just choose to either romance the character you want to romance or not. End of story. How is that confusing unless you're trying to say that they must be bi/gay/straight in some objective "real" sense. If you romance Merril in a straight romance - then she's straight. How is that confusing?

Conan

[Maugrim]

Ailith430 wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

lilliful wrote...

Ailith430 wrote...

*SNIP*
Am I the only one excited about this because they included a scene with pillow talk? lol

No. Am I the only one horrified to think that every single frigging love interest start the infamous "So what now?" dialogue after sex?

There needs to be an "Escape out nearest open window" icon option  for Hawke if the "So now what?" conversation is started by a LI followed by a one year time skip...

Just had to quote this because it's perfect.  Devs get on it, stat!

[Addai]

Athro wrote...
To put it another way, if Hawke can be written as a character and be either male or female, straight or bi - why can't the LIs be written to be either gay or straight depending on the game requirements of the player?

It doesn't make every instance of those LIs become bi. I know a lot of people who played Jade Empire who thought Sky was heterosexual because they never came across the option that had him romance the male PC.

It's kind of the same deal here. Of course the truth has yet to be revealed regarding DA2.  We have a little while still before we know for certain.

Conan

It's weak characterization.  Real people aren't zero state.  They either can be attracted to both genders or they can't.

[Athro]

MasterScribe wrote...

no, i got your point. but, that doesn't mean it's accurate. confusing was a poor/wrong choice of words, i should have said unusual. unusual because i've never played a BioWare game with romance mechanics like this before (ive only played KOTOR, DAO, and Mass Effect 2). not that change is bad, but why they started now is anyone's guess.

Cool as. I think I get where you're coming from.

I think the reason is because each LI has certain personal goals linked to the major plot - so if you romance them, you will have conflicts arise as you make major decisions. At least that's the impression I have gotten. Now if you can only romance one LI, that means you are limited in regards to what you can do regarding the main plot too if this is the case. Clearly Bioware doesn't want to limit s/s relationship players choices regarding the greater plot - so they need to open up the relationships.

This is all assuming, of course, that this is the case.

I think it's a good approach, personally, because it genuinely puts all players on equal footing regardless of whether they are gay/straight/bi etc. It will be interesting to see what the actual facts end up being - but I think it is a change that is long overdue, personally. Of course I'm biased.

[draken-heart]

 i expect isabela's romance to be much like morrigan's, as soon as she falls in love with hawke, she'll want to end it.