6813 réponses à ce sujet

[EscherEnigma]

You are, of course, free to express whatever desire you wish

That does not, however, mean you are free from other people expressing their disdain over your sense of entitlement, especially considering the history Bioware has of catering to it which makes your seeming despair that much more baffling.

[lilliful]

MasterScribe wrote...

Why did you change the post? My last girlfriend was black...

It's like if all the romance options were black, and you came along and said, "I mean I support racial equality, and I've romanced black people in the past, while I could have a romance with a black person again in this game, I'd really prefer there was a white option too." If you have difficulty understanding why that might bother someone, then there's really nothing more I can say. That's essentially how your views on why the cast shouldn't be all-bisexual are coming across to us.

[Taleroth]

lilliful wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Why did you change the post? My last girlfriend was black...

It's like if all the romance options were black, and you came along and said, "I mean I support racial equality, and I've romanced black people in the past, while I could have a romance with a black person again in this game, I'd really prefer there was a white option too." If you have difficulty understanding why that might bother someone, then there's really nothing more I can say. That's essentially how your views on why the cast shouldn't be all-bisexual are coming across to us.

I don't mean to defend MasterScribe, but I would not make that equivalency.  The nice thing about bisexual fictional characters is that in a committed relationship, their bisexual nature is practically a quantum concern.  They're only whatever sexuality makes the relationship work.  I don't know of a way to have that kind of situation with race.

I stand by your position otherwise.  But that I had to comment on.

Modifié par Taleroth, 03 mars 2011 - 05:10 .

[mesmerizedish]

Taleroth wrote...

lilliful wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Why did you change the post? My last girlfriend was black...

It's like if all the romance options were black, and you came along and said, "I mean I support racial equality, and I've romanced black people in the past, while I could have a romance with a black person again in this game, I'd really prefer there was a white option too." If you have difficulty understanding why that might bother someone, then there's really nothing more I can say. That's essentially how your views on why the cast shouldn't be all-bisexual are coming across to us.

I don't mean to defend MasterScribe, but I would not make that equivalency.  The nice thing about bisexual fictional characters is that in a committed relationship, their bisexual nature is practically a quantum concern.  They're only whatever sexuality makes the relationship work.  I don't know of a way to have that kind of situation with race.

I stand by your position otherwise.  But that I had to comment on.

Ooh, what if the LIs' skin colors changed based on the PC's skin color? Actually, that'd be kinda messed up

[Addai]

Athro wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
It's weak characterization.  Real people aren't zero state.  They either can be attracted to both genders or they can't.

That's bollocks. Why? Because this isn't a novel where there is only one story being told.

Why can't they write Merrill as gay if you pick the gay storyline and straight if you pick the straight storyline? How is Merril's characterisation going to be any less in one than the other? You make the fundamental error in thinking that the character has to be only one or the other and that is that.

It's not an "error."  It's an opinion, and a preference for deep characterization as opposed to NPCs who are blank slates waiting for the player to create them (as opposed to waiting for us to discover them).  For me, rich characters are what makes these games.

If the game writers want to write all bisexual LIs, that's up to them.  As righeously entitled as people are on the subject, woe to them if they ever decide to write anything else.

[Batorific]

Not to seem dense or anything but why does it matter whether a character is straight or bi if you are only going to pursue a straight relationship with them?

over and over i see this bizarre mentality in the various romance threads. Strangely, its coming up in 2 different issues. 1. Those that want exclusively gay or straight companions 2. bis that prefer one gender to another. Both act as if they are threatened by someone of the opposite gender to their character coming along and stealing the love interest. Love is love. love isn't "settling for".

I consider myself about as straight but if i met a woman who was just perfect. Understood me completely, cared about me, and all that jazz, i would go for them in a heartbeat. Maybe the initial sexual attraction isnt there but the emotional connection is so much more meaningful.

In these games its the emotional relationship we try hardest for. Who cares if a character is bi? If they love you, they love you. It doesn't mean they're settling for you. Or am i missing something? Because i don't get what is going on with these arguments. Its such a silly fear to think you have competition from members of the opposite gender... Because you will always have competition from your own gender anyway. What difference does it really make?

Maybe i have misunderstood? Correct me if i am wrong. Sorry if i have.

[falconlord5]

Addai67 wrote...

Athro wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
It's weak characterization.  Real people aren't zero state.  They either can be attracted to both genders or they can't.

That's bollocks. Why? Because this isn't a novel where there is only one story being told.

Why can't they write Merrill as gay if you pick the gay storyline and straight if you pick the straight storyline? How is Merril's characterisation going to be any less in one than the other? You make the fundamental error in thinking that the character has to be only one or the other and that is that.

It's not an "error."  It's an opinion, and a preference for deep characterization as opposed to NPCs who are blank slates waiting for the player to create them (as opposed to waiting for us to discover them).  For me, rich characters are what makes these games.

If the game writers want to write all bisexual LIs, that's up to them.  As righeously entitled as people are on the subject, woe to them if they ever decide to write anything else.

Variable sexuality does not equal blank slate.

[Taleroth]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Ooh, what if the LIs' skin colors changed based on the PC's skin color? Actually, that'd be kinda messed up

I'd date a chameleon.  That'd be hot.

I actually experimented with scripting a companion who was completely adaptive to PC behavior and choices in Neverwinter Night 2.  Attempting to test the player's likes and dislikes and adjust the character's behavior.  It was a lot of work that never paid off.

Modifié par Taleroth, 03 mars 2011 - 05:25 .

[lilliful]

Taleroth wrote...

I don't mean to defend MasterScribe, but I would not make that equivalency.  The nice thing about bisexual fictional characters is that in a committed relationship, their bisexual nature is practically a quantum concern.  They're only whatever sexuality makes the relationship work.  I don't know of a way to have that kind of situation with race.

I stand by your position otherwise.  But that I had to comment on.

Yeah, I don't mean to imply that race is an equivalent characteristic to sexuality, just that the comments were equivalent in offensiveness.

MasterScribe wrote...

A game with all black characters wouldn't bother me at all, actually. In fact, Dragon Age needs more racial diversity.

So then why does a game with all bisexual characters bother you?

Modifié par lilliful, 03 mars 2011 - 05:22 .

[Addai]

Ineffable Igor wrote...
This is pretty much the only argument I've seen for making the LI's romancable to all, regardless of gender, that I don't completely disagree with.  I still don't much care for the idea (I am more inclined to agree with Addai, in real life sexuality tends to be a pretty fixed thing that affects your development as an individual, thus marginalizing its effects bugs me, however I have a preference for the strictly realistic that I know many don't share, so don't mind me), but I would be less upset if this were the approach BioWare took in the game, as opposed to the "They're all bisexual!  What a coincidence!" approach.     

In his post on the matter, Gaider said that the "they're all openly bi" approach was his least favorite.  So if they did it, I imagine it is in a subjective fashion where they're gay in that game and straight in that game over there.  My theory is that it will be put down to Varric telling the story as he likes it and no one really knows the truth.

I really hope that's the furthest they stretch the storytelling shenanigans that are possible with an unreliable narrator.  They could get a lot worse than that.

Modifié par Addai67, 03 mars 2011 - 05:28 .

[Taleroth]

Hardly increases replayability. Unless you assume bisexuality means they don't care about what other romances you're in. It's not like you can romance them all in a single playthrough. Maybe you can, but that's entirely separate.

[lilliful]

Addai67 wrote...

It's not an "error."  It's an opinion, and a preference for deep characterization as opposed to NPCs who are blank slates waiting for the player to create them (as opposed to waiting for us to discover them).  For me, rich characters are what makes these games.

When I'm dating a man, I'm straight. When I'm dating a woman, I'm gay. I can't have a "bisexual relationship" because you can't be both genders at the same time. At one time, I was completely heterosexual and experienced no attraction to women. Now that I do experience attraction to them, it has changed nothing about who I am as a person -- what jokes I laugh at, my hopes and dreams, the things that scare me, and the things I want to accomplish in life. I'd like to think I'm a rich character :3

EDIT:

falconlord5 wrote...

Variable sexuality does not equal blank slate.

Also, what he/she said.

Modifié par lilliful, 03 mars 2011 - 05:31 .

[EscherEnigma]

MasterScribe wrote...

I don't feel entitled to anything. It's a desire, not a necessity. I'm not forcing BioWare to add anything to the next game (that would be incredibly arrogant), I'm "appealing" to them. If it doesn't happen, I'll get over it. Life will continue. Despair? I was exaggerating the whole "before I die' thing.

If you don't feel entitled, then you have a nasty habit of appearing that way.  That said, I have, at no point, said a word of force or necessities.  The excesive drama, I'm afraid, is all on your end.

[mesmerizedish]

MasterScribe wrote...

Does anybody know how non-companion romances will work?

No, but my guess is that none of them will be on the scale of companion romances. At most, I'd think a "Kelly Chambers" style romance, and then numerous opportunities for some quick action, like with Isabela in Origins.

[Batorific]

MasterScribe wrote...

Having companions with different sexual orientations can give each player a wholly different experience while playing the game and allows for increased replayability. The DA2 way keeps the replayability aspect, but loses on the different experience aspect.

How?  I don't see it, i am sorry.  Their orientation shouldn't come into the experience at all.  Its all about the character as a person, not as a piece of meat.  With the addition of Rivalry/Friendship you can make for even MORE relationship differences without having to lock out content from those that only like playing one gender.  That's still 8 different experiences (2 for each LI) without having to split between gender.

[Taleroth]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Does anybody know how non-companion romances will work?

No, but my guess is that none of them will be on the scale of companion romances. At most, I'd think a "Kelly Chambers" style romance, and then numerous opportunities for some quick action, like with Isabela in Origins.

And here I was hoping Dragon Age 2 would fulfill my fantasy of starting families in various locations like franchises.

Maybe DA3...

[mesmerizedish]

Taleroth wrote...

And here I was hoping Dragon Age 2 would fulfill my fantasy of starting families in various locations like franchises.

Maybe DA3...

Go play Fable, troll

[lilliful]

Batorific wrote...

That's still 8 different experiences (2 for each LI) without having to split between gender.

AND, if they responded differently to each gender while being romanced, that's 16 different experiences! You heard it here, folks. Bisexuality increases replayability.

[EscherEnigma]

Taleroth wrote...

And here I was hoping Dragon Age 2 would fulfill my fantasy of starting families in various locations like franchises.

Maybe DA3...

I think you may be thinking of the Fable series.