6813 réponses à ce sujet

[mesmerizedish]

Riona45 wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Well, no sex. I don't know if romancing him affects romances with other companions, though, nor do I know if it gets you the achievement.

I have the feeling that if the PC and Seb are in a loving relationship, he wouldn't appreciate the PC trying to romance other companions (if that's what you were wondering about).

Well, what I mean, is in ME2, romancing Kelly had no effect on on your romance with Kaiden or Ashley (I dunno if it mattered to ME2 romances... you might not even have the option if you're with one of them).

[Riosred]

KnightOfTwo wrote...

obsessedwjpn wrote...

I guess I am the only one clueless as to why having everyone bisexual is this big of a conversation. I don't really care one way or the other, I just am amazed that so many people are so set on having everyone be bisexual. I guess that makes it easier to accomodate all players but I find it odd that all the romance options in game would just all coincidentally be bisexual. That seems odd.

Besides, I still don't understand why everyone can't just play both genders of Hawke. It's a roleplaying game and part of it involves playing outside what you do in normal life.

Which is what I do. I am a guy irl as well as straight. I almost always play as female in an rpg because to me it is more interesting. I do play as male just to see the other side of things, to see any differences in story or remarks from other characters but even so I almost always play female. That said, I want to romance Merrill because I am of the opinion that she is absolutely adorable. I don't like to play male, so naturally I want to romance her while playing the kind of character I usually do, a female. I am also of the opinion that Merrill and Lady Hawke would be an absolutely adorable couple. I just want to be able to romance the character that I am interested in with the kind of character that I like to play. It would be unfair of me to simply have the character I want to romance be available to the kind of character I play as, so I want all the characters to be romancable by both genders so that everyone has equal opportunity to play the kind of character they want, while still being able to pursue any romancable character they like.

I read a game reviewer (male) who always plays as a female who said that a lot of men prefer to play as female....i find that really interesting.....contradictory to that i wont play as a male or buy game that wont let me play as a female...lol

[Athro]

obsessedwjpn wrote...

KnightOfTwo wrote...
Which is what I do. I am a guy irl as well as straight. I almost always play as female in an rpg because to me it is more interesting. I do play as male just to see the other side of things, to see any differences in story or remarks from other characters but even so I almost always play female. That said I want to romance Merrill because I am of the opinion that she is absolutely adorable. I don't like to play male so naturally I want to romance her while playing the kind of character I usually do, a female. I am also of the opinion that Merrill and Lady Hawke would be an absolutely adorable couple. I just want to be able to romance the character that I am interested in with the kind of character that I like to play. It would be unfair of me to simply have the character I want to romance be available to the kind of character I play as, so I want all the characters to be romancable by both genders so that everyone has equal opportunity to play the kind of character they want, while still being able to pursue any romancable character they like.

But again this is based on what you want as a player and not what bodes well for characterization. If games catered to every player's wants then those who make games would have no room to do anything based on simply what works for the character, story, gameplay, etc. I don't want a company to be limited in what it can do with its story and such just because player's are demanding the game be made for them specifically.

As a writer I can say, it doesn't work like that with games. When you're writing for a novel you're telling only one story - so you look at a character in the way that they fit that story.

But in a game like an RPG, you are writing multiple stories. In these instances, you can't limit a character to one behaviour - because you don't necessarily know what the player will pick. So you write characters that fit the player's decisions and mould the story around that.

As I've said before in this thread - it's not that every character is bisexual, it's that their sexuality only matters in relation to the crossover between the player's choices and the story demand for that character. Thus you can have Isabella be bisexual because it fits the story and she will be openly bisexual to the PC before the PC has the option to flirt. But Merrill might not say anything about her preference until the player flirts with her - at which point she could be gay or straight and the story will change to fit around which ever she is made to be. In order to fit the player, the game will have her respond to the flirt and "tag" that for this story, Merrill is gay.

That doesn't weaken her characterisation because you are now seeing that story where her character was always gay. But if you flirted with her as a man, you would see the story where she was always straight.

When writing characters, sexuality is not often in the equation until it matters or if you are specifically telling a story about sexuality. In a lot of cases sexuality is exchangeable for characters. Shocking as that may sound.

It is hardly limiting story potential because Bioware is not telling one story. They are telling several and different players are experiencing different stories. What you experience in DA2 may differ from mine.

[MorningBird]

obsessedwjpn wrote...

But again this is based on what you want as a player and not what bodes well for characterization.

Yeah, well... the players are the one's buying the games.  Not the PC's.  In that sense, player's do have a voice when it comes to what they would like to see in a game.

That being said, until the game is out (and we all get a chance to play it for ourselves), we can't say for certain one way or the other whether or not the characterization of the LI's will be hindered by making them all equal opportunity.

obsessedwjpn wrote...
If games catered to every player's wants then those who make games would have no room to do anything based on simply what works for the character, story, gameplay, etc. I don't want a company to be limited in what it can do with its story and such just because player's are demanding the game be made for them specifically.

Just a reminder: no one is pointing a gun to BioWare's head, forcing them to insert 'equal opportunity' romances into the Dragon Age franchise.  BioWare has said numorous times (on varying topics) that if something is impossible to do (through money or resources) or doesn't mesh with the creative design of their game, or.. heck if they just plain do not want to do it... it doesn't matter how many people want it.  They won't do it.

Dragon Age belongs to BioWare.  They're the ones calling the shots, and if they do something because the fans ask for it, it's likely because they want to do it too.

Modifié par MorningBird, 04 mars 2011 - 03:55 .

[Riona45]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Well, what I mean, is in ME2, romancing Kelly had no effect on on your romance with Kaiden or Ashley (I dunno if it mattered to ME2 romances... you might not even have the option if you're with one of them).

Personally, I think romancing Kelly should affect those romances, but that's just me.  I don't know what penalties there would be for straying from a romance in DA2, but I certainly think they should exist (even for a "chaste" relationship).

[mesmerizedish]

MorningBird wrote...

Just a reminder: no one is pointing a gun to BioWare's head, forcing them to insert 'equal opportunity' romances into the Dragon Age franchise.

Oh, umm... yeah! Right! *quickly lowers her gun and hides it behind her back*




I'm KIDDING. Sheesh.

[colejossart]

obsessedwjpn wrote...

But again this is based on what you want as a player and not what bodes well for characterization. If games catered to every player's wants then those who make games would have no room to do anything based on simply what works for the character, story, gameplay, etc. I don't want a company to be limited in what it can do with its story and such just because player's are demanding the game be made for them specifically.

^^  This.  Every member of your party being bisexual is not realistic characterization wise.  Bis/Gays make up about 8 percent of the population, and you want 66 % of your party to be that way?  Isn't it enough that there's one male and one female bi option?  In ME2 there wasn't one (Kelly doesn't count).  People complained and complained.  Now, in DA2 there's bi options.  But instead of being like, "Hey!  Awesome!  I get to have a gay Hawke!" you people are complaining that EVERYONE isn't bi.  Are you ever satisfied?  Next you'll be complaining that there's straight options at all.

Modifié par colejossart, 04 mars 2011 - 03:56 .

[mesmerizedish]

Riona45 wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Well, what I mean, is in ME2, romancing Kelly had no effect on on your romance with Kaiden or Ashley (I dunno if it mattered to ME2 romances... you might not even have the option if you're with one of them).

Personally, I think romancing Kelly should affect those romances, but that's just me.  I don't know what penalties there would be for straying from a romance in DA2, but I certainly think they should exist (even for a "chaste" relationship).

I agree. I'm only commenting on how it was actually implemented

[obsessedwjpn]

I understand what everyone is saying: I just wish people would be happy with the game and stop making these demands, lol. Let's just enjoy the game however it is and stop asking for more. I guess I am easily pleased but that is how I am when it comes to games. I can mold to them rather than have them always molded for me.

[Riona45]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
I agree. I'm only commenting on how it was actually implemented

Understood.

[falconlord5]

colejossart wrote...

obsessedwjpn wrote...

But again this is based on what you want as a player and not what bodes well for characterization. If games catered to every player's wants then those who make games would have no room to do anything based on simply what works for the character, story, gameplay, etc. I don't want a company to be limited in what it can do with its story and such just because player's are demanding the game be made for them specifically.

^^  This.  Every member of your party being bisexual is not realistic characterization wise.  Bis/Gays make up about 8 percent of the population, and you want 66 % of your party to be that way?  Isn't it enough that there's one male and one female bi option?  In ME2 there wasn't one.  People complained and complained.  Now, in DA2 there's bi options.  But instead of being like, "Hey!  Awesome!  I get to have a gay Hawke!" you people are complaining that EVERYONE isn't bi.  Are you ever satisfied?  Next you'll be complaining that there's straight options at all.

Sigh. You're asking a forum full of gamers, if they are ever satisfied?

Really?

[Riona45]

obsessedwjpn wrote...

I understand what everyone is saying: I just wish people would be happy with the game and stop making these demands, lol. Let's just enjoy the game however it is and stop asking for more.

I like it when people ask for more--it gets people thinking about how to improve for next time (though of course, we haven't even played DA2 yet).

Modifié par Riona45, 04 mars 2011 - 03:57 .

[willikat]

colejossart wrote...

 Every member of your party being bisexual is not realistic characterization wise.  Bis/Gays make up about 8 percent of the population, and you want 66 % of your party to be that way? 

Really?  There are population statistics for THEDAS?  I'd love to see where this is located.  In the wiki, perhaps?

[obsessedwjpn]

Well, there is asking for more and then there is demanding for more. There is A LOT of demanding on these forums.

Modifié par obsessedwjpn, 04 mars 2011 - 04:02 .

[Athro]

obsessedwjpn wrote...

I understand what everyone is saying: I just wish people would be happy with the game and stop making these demands, lol. Let's just enjoy the game however it is and stop asking for more. I guess I am easily pleased but that is how I am when it comes to games. I can mold to them rather than have them always molded for me.

But, to be fair, you don't need to do much molding do you?

Unlike real life, a game should be able to have equal playability for everyone. Expecting all gay/bi players to just suck it up and play it straight is kind of unfair. As is saying "you get one choice, be happy with that."

There are plenty of ways to both cater for gay/bi players without canonically making all the NPCs bi while still allowing gay/bi players to romance every LI - as I have pointed out before.

I know you have trouble understanding why this is such an issue - it's not an issue for you. But telling people that they should just accept things is not the solution. Fans saying to bioware "we want this" is. If Bioware choose to listen, then that's great.

When you spend most of your life compromising and having to often change to suit others, you kind of want your entertainment to mold to you for a change.

[obsessedwjpn]

Athro wrote...

obsessedwjpn wrote...

I understand what everyone is saying: I just wish people would be happy with the game and stop making these demands, lol. Let's just enjoy the game however it is and stop asking for more. I guess I am easily pleased but that is how I am when it comes to games. I can mold to them rather than have them always molded for me.

But, to be fair, you don't need to do much molding do you?

Unlike real life, a game should be able to have equal playability for everyone. Expecting all gay/bi players to just suck it up and play it straight is kind of unfair. As is saying "you get one choice, be happy with that."

There are plenty of ways to both cater for gay/bi players without canonically making all the NPCs bi while still allowing gay/bi players to romance every LI - as I have pointed out before.

I know you have trouble understanding why this is such an issue - it's not an issue for you. But telling people that they should just accept things is not the solution. Fans saying to bioware "we want this" is. If Bioware choose to listen, then that's great.

When you spend most of your life compromising and having to often change to suit others, you kind of want your entertainment to mold to you for a change.

So my point is less valid because I am not part of the group who has to do a lot of compromising? I am not speaking as a heterosexual female, I am speaking as a writer who understands what it is like to have one's work put out and then have people demand things be made just for them. I am worried about the artists and the value of their art, not bisexuality specifically.

Modifié par obsessedwjpn, 04 mars 2011 - 04:04 .

[colejossart]

willikat wrote...

colejossart wrote...

 Every member of your party being bisexual is not realistic characterization wise.  Bis/Gays make up about 8 percent of the population, and you want 66 % of your party to be that way? 

Really?  There are population statistics for THEDAS?  I'd love to see where this is located.  In the wiki, perhaps?

 I got a good laugh out of this lol.  I was just using a reasonable assumption that Thedas's populations were at least reasonably close to the real world.  My only point is:

Why should the devs cater to 8% of the population?  I'd rather them not waste the time and resources making EVERYONE bi when those same resources could be used to flesh out other romances that a majority of people will actually want to play.  I think that they should feel lucky to have bi/gay romances at all.

And as for straight guys playing girls and romancing guys...  just no.  That's like saying you believe in Heaven AND ghosts.  They are mutually exclusive lol.

[EscherEnigma]

... the forum is full of video game nerds. Of *course* there's lots of demanding.

That said, isn't telling the people interested in gay-romances that they should just shut up and be satisfied just as demanding?

[willikat]

Athro wrote...

obsessedwjpn wrote...

I understand what everyone is saying: I just wish people would be happy with the game and stop making these demands, lol. Let's just enjoy the game however it is and stop asking for more. I guess I am easily pleased but that is how I am when it comes to games. I can mold to them rather than have them always molded for me.

But, to be fair, you don't need to do much molding do you?

Unlike real life, a game should be able to have equal playability for everyone. Expecting all gay/bi players to just suck it up and play it straight is kind of unfair. As is saying "you get one choice, be happy with that."

There are plenty of ways to both cater for gay/bi players without canonically making all the NPCs bi while still allowing gay/bi players to romance every LI - as I have pointed out before.

I know you have trouble understanding why this is such an issue - it's not an issue for you. But telling people that they should just accept things is not the solution. Fans saying to bioware "we want this" is. If Bioware choose to listen, then that's great.

When you spend most of your life compromising and having to often change to suit others, you kind of want your entertainment to mold to you for a change.

THIS. A million times THIS.

Athro, are you taken? Cause I  you so much right now.

[Rogue Eagle]

normally I'm not attracted to video game girls and think it's sad that people demand epic side story romantics with their favourite characters...

but .. that new rogue girl, hot damn!

[Treasure Woman]

Sebastion is romancable, yet chaste.
Oh no. I'm fine with this. Honestly I am.....*freakin' cries her eyes out again* Ah well, something is better than nothing I suppose. >:| This romance is gonna be frustrating for me. Will I be able to hug/kiss him I wonder. Snuggle even? lol
Romancing Anders on my second playthrough. > Don't know if I want to romance the other LI's. :/
Every Hawke I play is gonna be female, btw.

[HolyJellyfish]

Treasure Woman wrote...

Sebastion is romancable, yet chaste.
Oh no. I'm fine with this. Honestly I am.....*freakin' cries her eyes out again* Ah well, something is better than nothing I suppose. >:| This romance is gonna be frustrating for me. Will I be able to hug/kiss him I wonder. Snuggle even? lol
Romancing Anders on my second playthrough. > Don't know if I want to romance the other LI's. :/
Every Hawke I play is gonna be female, btw.

It will be like romancing a classic Jane Austen hottie! Future implied perhaps.

[obsessedwjpn]

EscherEnigma wrote...

... the forum is full of video game nerds. Of *course* there's lots of demanding.

That said, isn't telling the people interested in gay-romances that they should just shut up and be satisfied just as demanding?

I never said to shut up and be satisfied. I said that I wanted the bisexuality of characters to make sense to their character and not just be put in because fans ask for it. I would LOVE more sexual orientations in games. I play both genders and every single sexual orientation possible in games that allow it. I am all open for more as long as it makes sense in gameplay.

BTW I love how just because I make a comment that doesn't coincide with YES LET'S MAKE ALL THE CHARACTERS BISEXUAL, everyone is now saying I am being unfair and mean. I never said that I disagree with the concept, just how it is carried out.

Modifié par obsessedwjpn, 04 mars 2011 - 04:09 .

[mesmerizedish]

colejossart wrote...

And as for straight guys playing girls and romancing guys...  just no.  That's like saying you believe in Heaven AND ghosts.  They are mutually exclusive lol.

They're called Catholics, actually.

I snipped the rest of your post, but it's all relevant to what I'm about to say. I usually try and not involve myself when things get hairy. This is my pet issue, so I'm happy to have reasonable discourse with reasonable people. People like you, I try not to comment on. But, your post couldn't be ignored. You're possibly the biggest douchebag, the absolute most asinine **** I've ever read on these forums.

[falconlord5]

colejossart wrote...

willikat wrote...

colejossart wrote...

 Every member of your party being bisexual is not realistic characterization wise.  Bis/Gays make up about 8 percent of the population, and you want 66 % of your party to be that way? 

Really?  There are population statistics for THEDAS?  I'd love to see where this is located.  In the wiki, perhaps?

 I got a good laugh out of this lol.  I was just using a reasonable assumption that Thedas's populations were at least reasonably close to the real world.  My only point is:

Why should the devs cater to 8% of the population?  I'd rather them not waste the time and resources making EVERYONE bi when those same resources could be used to flesh out other romances that a majority of people will actually want to play.  I think that they should feel lucky to have bi/gay romances at all.

And as for straight guys playing girls and romancing guys...  just no.  That's like saying you believe in Heaven AND ghosts.  They are mutually exclusive lol.

Actually, technically, we're all just varying degrees of bisexual. So, the Bi's make up 100% of the pop:devil:.

Secondly, how does making all the relationships Bi make them anyless fleshed out the straight romances? How does adding extra dramatic potential (there is a LOT of dramatic potential with Bi characters, tis wonderful) equate to catering to a minority group?