6813 réponses à ce sujet

[catabuca]

halokitty wrote...

I freely admit that I did gloat a bit, and I realize that's not the most mature way to handle things. But my gloating came from a very relieved and happy place. For weeks- even months- I've seen posts saying the implementation of inclusive romances was impossible, that it would ruin everything forever, that it was catering to the minority, and that folks should just shut up and be happy that even one romance is available, but don't you dare touch my heterosexual romance option. Oh, no no no...

The level of discourse when debating fans of the s/s romances has often been decidedly uneven. The folks in favor of all bi struggled to remain positive and upbeat and plead their case for tolerance, inclusion, and understanding. These arguments almost universally dismissed or simply ignored in favor of the more bombastic declarations that inclusion is utterly impossible, game breaking, or just unnecessary. In a game filled with magic, dragons, shape-shifters, desire demons, and dwarves, the presence of multiple bisexual or same sex romances would simply tax player imagination to the breaking point. Immersion would be destroyed, human sacrifices, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

So yes, when it was finally obvious that all-bi was actually happening, I might have made a crack or two about drinking in the tears of the other side. For that, I do apologize, it was extremely childish and unfair. Instead, I want to say how much I love and appreciate Bioware for their efforts to make Dragon Age 2 a powerful game experience that allows for a level of freedom and inclusion that no developer has ever really attempted. If you would have told me ten, even five years ago that a mainstream, RPG video game would integrate multiple same-sex romance possibilities in a way that was thoughtful and, in many ways, unremarkable I would never have believed it. It's pretty amazing and even humbling, and I cannot adequately express my gratitude.

<3

[Biotic_Warlock]

So all romance options are bi?
If so, awesome!

[catabuca]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

So all romance options are bi?
If so, awesome!

Yes. Well, all but Seb, it appears.

[Biotic_Warlock]

catabuca wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

So all romance options are bi?
If so, awesome!

Yes. Well, all but Seb, it appears.

I read on DA wiki Seb is not romancable by anyone... except for a kiss.

Pretty much the Samara or DA2... only less anti-evil.

[catabuca]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

catabuca wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

So all romance options are bi?
If so, awesome!

Yes. Well, all but Seb, it appears.

I read on DA wiki Seb is not romancable by anyone... except for a kiss.

Pretty much the Samara or DA2... only less anti-evil.

He's romanceable, but it's chaste. So no sex. How deep the romance goes is anyone's guess at the moment.

[KarmaKannibal]

 I'm actually excited for Fenris, Anders AND Isabela. Varric would have been cool I guess...but, meh. I don't like them short. No matter how cool they are.

[Noir_Skye]

catabuca wrote...

halokitty wrote...

 Instead, I want to say how much I love and appreciate Bioware for their efforts to make Dragon Age 2 a powerful game experience that allows for a level of freedom and inclusion that no developer has ever really attempted. If you would have told me ten, even five years ago that a mainstream, RPG video game would integrate multiple same-sex romance possibilities in a way that was thoughtful and, in many ways, unremarkable I would never have believed it. It's pretty amazing and even humbling, and I cannot adequately express my gratitude.

<3

I agree.  This allows gamers to have a more personal experience.  I'm happy with this change and with the fact your family will resemble you because of  your customization.  i had to create another background story for my Human Noble in DA:O because I looked NOTHING like my family.  I assumed after my mother died Bryce decided to bring his bastard daughter home.  This is a step forward in mainstream RPGs.

Thank you Bioware!!!!!

[rcollins1701]

Chris Priestly wrote...

To help you better understand Isabela as a character, here is a short story written by the Dragon Age 2 Development team.

Development Team—

I realize I'm coming into this a bit late, but can we safely consider these stories to be canon?

[Addai]

halokitty wrote...

I freely admit that I did gloat a bit, and I realize that's not the most mature way to handle things. But my gloating came from a very relieved and happy place. For weeks- even months- I've seen posts saying the implementation of inclusive romances was impossible, that it would ruin everything forever, that it was catering to the minority, and that folks should just shut up and be happy that even one romance is available, but don't you dare touch my heterosexual romance option. Oh, no no no...

The level of discourse when debating fans of the s/s romances has often been decidedly uneven. The folks in favor of all bi struggled to remain positive and upbeat and plead their case for tolerance, inclusion, and understanding. These arguments almost universally dismissed or simply ignored in favor of the more bombastic declarations that inclusion is utterly impossible, game breaking, or just unnecessary. In a game filled with magic, dragons, shape-shifters, desire demons, and dwarves, the presence of multiple bisexual or same sex romances would simply tax player imagination to the breaking point. Immersion would be destroyed, human sacrifices, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

So yes, when it was finally obvious that all-bi was actually happening, I might have made a crack or two about drinking in the tears of the other side. For that, I do apologize, it was extremely childish and unfair. Instead, I want to say how much I love and appreciate Bioware for their efforts to make Dragon Age 2 a powerful game experience that allows for a level of freedom and inclusion that no developer has ever really attempted. If you would have told me ten, even five years ago that a mainstream, RPG video game would integrate multiple same-sex romance possibilities in a way that was thoughtful and, in many ways, unremarkable I would never have believed it. It's pretty amazing and even humbling, and I cannot adequately express my gratitude.

Well, a tip- if you want something to be considered unremarkable then don't make a big cause of it.  Hyperbolizing on those who aren't as excited about the idea as you are is probably not a good idea, either.  I mean, I can understand if someone likes a particular character, wanting that character to be a bi option, but the "they're all bi" bandwagon is strange.  I gather that people are seeing it as some blow for social justice or whatever the hell.  As if having 2 LIs be bisexual versus 4 is a stamp of bigotry.

Then again, if someone did in fact shed tears about the apparent fact that they're all bi, they deserve your mockery.  I just can't see that it's that big a deal one way or another.  Someone's always going to get left out- now it's people who want a straight romance.  Enjoy the moment, I guess, and hopefully it will lead to less whining if in another game there actually are straight LIs again.  I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.  lol

[falconlord5]

Addai67 wrote...

Well, a tip- if you want something to be considered unremarkable then don't make a big cause of it.  Hyperbolizing on those who aren't as excited about the idea as you are is probably not a good idea, either.  I mean, I can understand if someone likes a particular character, wanting that character to be a bi option, but the "they're all bi" bandwagon is strange.  I gather that people are seeing it as some blow for social justice or whatever the hell.  As if having 2 LIs be bisexual versus 4 is a stamp of bigotry.

Then again, if someone did in fact shed tears about the apparent fact that they're all bi, they deserve your mockery.  I just can't see that it's that big a deal one way or another.  Someone's always going to get left out- now it's people who want a straight romance.  Enjoy the moment, I guess, and hopefully it will lead to less whining if in another game there actually are straight LIs again.  I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.  lol

Less whining? In a video game? Are you mad?

In all seriousness, though, I never understood the mass commotion over all Bi either. I mean, I'll defend it, but I'd'a been just fine either way.

However, mocking all the homophobes who came out of the woodwork when we figured it out... dear God, that was satisfying. Which probably says an awful lot about me.

[Zjarcal]

Addai67 wrote...
Someone's always going to get left out- now it's people who want a straight romance. Enjoy the moment, I guess, and hopefully it will lead to less whining if in another game there actually are straight LIs again. I'm not going to hold my breath on that one. lol

How exactly are you left out for wanting a straight romance? You can still romance the guys with your female Hawkes, and I doubt that during sex they will complain about your female Hawke not having a penis.  

That would be like me saying that I got left out of having a lesbian romance in Origins with Leli just because she was also romanceable by males. The romance between my girls was certainly as lesbian as it could get.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 07 mars 2011 - 05:14 .

[LadyWillow]

Im fine with the romances being bi. More options for me.

I think its cool, there were times when i made a character in DA:O that i wish i could of had a three some with someone other than Isabella, just me and Alistair and someone else... But never got that, now with the option of having that its all YAY!!!!!

[mesmerizedish]

Zjarcal wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Someone's always going to get left out- now it's people who want a straight romance. Enjoy the moment, I guess, and hopefully it will lead to less whining if in another game there actually are straight LIs again. I'm not going to hold my breath on that one. lol

How exactly are you left out for wanting a straight romance? You can still romance the guys with your female Hawkes, and I doubt that during sex they will complain about your female Hawke not having a penis.  

That would be like me saying that I got left out of having a lesbian romance in Origins with Leli just because she was also romanceable by males. The romance between my girls was certainly as lesbian as it could get.

People get possessive of imaginary characters. Mr. Gaider wrote about it once (I don't recall if it was an article or a forum post). Apparently some female gamers were upset that Sky in JE could romanced by men, because they though of him as "theirs."

To quote Mr. Gaider, "People are freaks."

[falconlord5]

Zjarcal wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Someone's always going to get left out- now it's people who want a straight romance. Enjoy the moment, I guess, and hopefully it will lead to less whining if in another game there actually are straight LIs again. I'm not going to hold my breath on that one. lol

How exactly are you left out for wanting a straight romance? You can still romance the guys with your female Hawkes, and I doubt that during sex they will complain about your female Hawke not having a penis.

That would be like me saying that I got left out of having a lesbian romance in Origins with Leli just because she was also romanceable by males. The romance between my girls was certainly as lesbian as it could get.

It's a perception thing; some people (I am not one of them) perceive it as, if the romanceable person is Bi, then they are somehow cheated because the character is not completely straight. The same, oddly enough, can be said of some within the gay community.

Can't I buy the argument, but as Addai pointed out, someone is always gonna feel left out. Not a whole lot you can do about it.

[Benevolent Walnut]

Addai67 wrote...

Well, a tip- if you want something to be considered unremarkable then don't make a big cause of it.  Hyperbolizing on those who aren't as excited about the idea as you are is probably not a good idea, either.  I mean, I can understand if someone likes a particular character, wanting that character to be a bi option, but the "they're all bi" bandwagon is strange.  I gather that people are seeing it as some blow for social justice or whatever the hell.  As if having 2 LIs be bisexual versus 4 is a stamp of bigotry.

Then again, if someone did in fact shed tears about the apparent fact that they're all bi, they deserve your mockery.  I just can't see that it's that big a deal one way or another.  Someone's always going to get left out- now it's people who want a straight romance.  Enjoy the moment, I guess, and hopefully it will lead to less whining if in another game there actually are straight LIs again.  I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.  lol

It's not as if straight romances were taken out.  The characters are just bisexual.  Just because someone is bi, it doesn't mean you have a "Bi relationship" with your significant other.  You have a heterosexual one or a homosexual one (and i'm sure there are other ones too, but that is all very confusing).  Point being, straight people are not being aleinated at all.  All this is doing is being inclusive to gay fans of DA.  I feel like most people, gay or sraight, are happy that we have more options open to us in the game.  And if certain straight people need gays to be left out in order for them to feel comfortable, then I'm rather glad they are uncomfortable.  They deserve it.

[mesmerizedish]

Sua Sponte wrote...

falconlord5 wrote...

However, mocking all the homophobes who came out of the woodwork when we figured it out... dear God, that was satisfying. Which probably says an awful lot about me.

I'm sorry, but labeling people who disagree with the "all-bi" angle as homophobes is wholly misguided.

I don't think that's what he's doing. There certainly were homophobes among the people who were upset, just as there were people who were genuinely concerned about story and characterization. Until you go through every post falconlord5 made and found some that referred to the latter as the former, there's no need to comment on what he's saying now

[falconlord5]

Sua Sponte wrote...

falconlord5 wrote...

However, mocking all the homophobes who came out of the woodwork when we figured it out... dear God, that was satisfying. Which probably says an awful lot about me.

I'm sorry, but labeling people who disagree with the "all-bi" angle as homophobes is wholly misguided.

I'm not; I don't Addai is homophobic, for example.

There were, however, a few lunatics out there on the forums who were very, very homophobic.

And messing with them was fun.

[MorningBird]

falconlord5 wrote...

Less whining? In a video game? Are you mad?

In all seriousness, though, I never understood the mass commotion over all Bi either. I mean, I'll defend it, but I'd'a been just fine either way.

However, mocking all the homophobes who came out of the woodwork when we figured it out... dear God, that was satisfying. Which probably says an awful lot about me.

I'm going to be honest, a lot, if not most, of the 'you're just being a homophobe' comments irked me, mainly because the people being labeled as 'homophobes' left right and center didn't strike me as 'homophobic' when voicing their concerns.  I find many of the worries  regarding the 'all bi' romances to be premature in nature, but the only TRULY homophobic comments I've read were blatant trolling attempts, so they didn't really strike a cord with me.

Difference of opinion/premature concern =/= homophobic.

I really do wish we could all just 'agree to disagree' until the game comes out rather than calling each other 'whiners' and 'homophobes.'



EDIT:  This isn't directed at you Falcon, btw, just speaking on some of the comments that were said in general.

Modifié par MorningBird, 07 mars 2011 - 05:27 .

[werewoof]

MorningBird wrote...

falconlord5 wrote...

Less whining? In a video game? Are you mad?

In all seriousness, though, I never understood the mass commotion over all Bi either. I mean, I'll defend it, but I'd'a been just fine either way.

However, mocking all the homophobes who came out of the woodwork when we figured it out... dear God, that was satisfying. Which probably says an awful lot about me.

I'm going to be honest, a lot, if not most, of the 'you're just being a homophobe' comments irked me, mainly because the people being labeled as 'homophobes' left right and center didn't strike me as 'homophobic' when voicing their concerns.  I find many of the worries  regarding the 'all bi' romances to be premature in nature, but the only TRULY homophobic comments I've read were blatant trolling attempts, so they didn't really strike a cord with me.

Difference of opinion/premature concern =/= homophobic.

I really do wish we could all just 'agree to disagree' until the game comes out rather than calling each other 'whiners' and 'homophobes.'

There were a few prretty crazy homophobes, like the one that came on a while ago screeching about how much he hated 'homos' and constantly reassuring us that he's straight and whatnot. Not to mention the people whose concerns were less about characterization and more about "omg i'm a striaght guy i don't want another guy hitting on me if they do i'll kill them". That might have been what falconlord5 was referring to.

[werewoof]

Sua Sponte wrote...

I can imagine. Messing with people who are so uncertain about their own sexuality that they persecute others, would be fun.

The ones that tell you they're straight every five minutes whether it has anything to do with the game or not are especially entertaining.

[Addai]

Benevolent Walnut wrote...
It's not as if straight romances were taken out.  The characters are just bisexual.  Just because someone is bi, it doesn't mean you have a "Bi relationship" with your significant other.  You have a heterosexual one or a homosexual one (and i'm sure there are other ones too, but that is all very confusing).  Point being, straight people are not being aleinated at all.  All this is doing is being inclusive to gay fans of DA.  I feel like most people, gay or sraight, are happy that we have more options open to us in the game.  And if certain straight people need gays to be left out in order for them to feel comfortable, then I'm rather glad they are uncomfortable.  They deserve it.

Well, very imperious of you.

Regardless, by "straight romance" I mean, romance story line with a straight LI.  And it's a matter of opinion and taste whether that being unavailable is a good thing or a bad thing.  Personally I would prefer at least one straight romance story line, because I cannot relate to the bisexual point of view.  If you can, that's fine for you- don't tell me how I should feel about it.  It's not that big a deal, however.  I enjoyed Zevran's romance story line in Origins and I'll wait to see how the romances are implemented to judge those in DA2.

[J.C. Blade]

The problem to some people is the big flashing heart shaped switch-o-romance which switches on/off a part of NPCs personality - minor part but also an important part. Some players don't like being the ones to decide something vital like that through a game mechanic rather than gameplay.

I don't like any sort of control over the NPCs, which is why I often use auto level up. The heart shaped switch now forces me to play god and decide something like that for a character that is not my own. THAT feels like cheating.

[falconlord5]

Sua Sponte wrote...

falconlord5 wrote...

I'm not; I don't Addai is homophobic, for example.

There were, however, a few lunatics out there on the forums who were very, very homophobic.

And messing with them was fun.

I can imagine. Messing with people who are so uncertain about their own sexuality that they persecute others, would be fun.

To quote the Joker: 'It's GLORIOUS!"