6813 réponses à ce sujet

[Panderfringe]

Holy crap, can the internet get any creepier?

[elirian_19]

Ryzaki wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...
I don't see a problem with the statement. It's the exact same sentiment as the gaggle of fangirls squeeing over how bishi he is and how he simply must be the bi LI so their yaoi fanon can come true... <_<

I'd love some proof of this. 

If only so I could facepalm over it. 

This.

[Thiefy]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

JohnstonMR wrote...

elirian_19 wrote...

Teknor wrote...

Fenris looks like he belongs to gayhood. My bet is on him.

*sigh*

I know, right?  People seem either to be unaware or uncaring how they come across. 

I don't see a problem with the statement. It's the exact same sentiment as the gaggle of fangirls squeeing over how bishi he is and how he simply must be the bi LI so their yaoi fanon can come true... <_<

Er, how can you not see this as offensive? The quote says "Fenris looks gay," with a few extra words thrown in there.

Only someone that is uncouth and lives under a rock could say or think that without knowing that it would be offensive to other people.

And seriously? Fangirls? Don't try to peg that discriminatory statement on them. Most yaoi fangirls are teenagers, and the majority of the ladies here are older than that. I've also yet to see any of the fangirls here refer to any of the male characters in such a derogitory way.

[Maclimes]

It does seem to be a bit unfortunate that in Dragon Age, "bisexual" means "promiscuous".



Zevran and Isabella both are not just bi, they're loose, crazy, have-sex-with-anything-and-everything kind of characters. Leliana, though "sweeter" than the other two, was a bard who seduced women and men, and uses sex as a weapon and a tool. I'm not even gay, and I find all of this a little offensive.



Can't a character be more modest and conservative, and still be swayed in either direction? Why can't someone like Alistair find love in places he never thought to look? It's always bothered me.

[Gentle Leviathan]

halokitty wrote...

From what I've seen on the forums and the intertubes at large, it's considered pretty "Forever Alone" to put much interest or effort into the love interests in DA and ME.  Many people apparently wish Bioware would take them out completely and focus on the stabbing darkspawn aspects.  But I must confess, the romantic subplots are part of the games that I really enjoy and that I think sets the series' apart from standard (that is, non-Bioware) RPGs.  Romantic love is part of the human condition, a huge, integral, all-consuming part, actually.   Just yesterday, many of us celebrated an entire holiday based around the concept.  Adding that element to a game is just one more step toward the video game experiences becoming fully realized stories, rather than simply a series of tasks or fights or achievments. 

With that said, I am a bit disappointed with the (apparent) romantic attachments announced for DA2.  In both ME and DA I have played female lesbian characters.  I thought Liara was amazing in ME1 and ME2 Shadow Broker DLC (though I chaffed at all the simpering on whether it really counted as a same-sex relationship.)  I also really liked Tali and found it a bit annoying that she was a F/F love interest that was intentionally removed, despite the presence of completed audio files.  It seemed like a weak-kneed response to the Fox News controversy from the first game.  But then there was Leliana in DAO who was also wonderfully realized.  She was really quite a break-out from the same-sex stereotypes, she was mostly chaste (her past notwithstanding) and highly religious.  Not only that, she was sweet, caring, and had an unbeliveably sexy accent.

But if Isabella is truly the bi-female option in DA2...I think my Hawke will remain herself forever alone.  I would imagine gay men felt the same way about Zevran in Origins.  He was a great character and quite a cool addition to the party.  But I couldn't help but think his constant hitting on other characters (primarily the female party members)would become annoying if a male Warden was in a same-sex romance with him.  That, to me, is more game-breaking than having a party of four potential bisexual love-interests.  Which wouldn't be a problem if the gay male Warden had other options beyond Zevran.  You want the flighty guy who may be romancing any number of bar wenches behind your back?  Sure!  You want character Male character B who is more romantic, loyal, or simply different?  That's fine too.  Opposite sex characters had that romantic choice, same-sex ones did not. 

Isabella (and, again, this is all purely speculation still) seems to be on track for a similar role as Zevran, and that's simply not appealing to me.  Now, surely anything can happen.  Perhaps the character is so well written and portrayed that there is far more depth to her than simply a sex-crazed, untrustworthy pirate.  But I was, and to a lesser degree still, hope Merrill will turn out to be a FemHawke LI as well.  But even if that's not the case, I can't complain too much.  As I said, Liara and Leliana were just wonderful characters and I really enjoyed and appreciated their romantic subplots, even if that does make me one of "those" gamers. 

I agree with you, I want Merrill as a s/s option for femhawke

[JohnstonMR]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

JohnstonMR wrote...

elirian_19 wrote...

Teknor wrote...

Fenris looks like he belongs to gayhood. My bet is on him.

*sigh*

I know, right?  People seem either to be unaware or uncaring how they come across. 

I don't see a problem with the statement. It's the exact same sentiment as the gaggle of fangirls squeeing over how bishi he is and how he simply must be the bi LI so their yaoi fanon can come true... <_<

I don't take it that way--using the word "gayhood" seems borderline homophobic to me, and basing it on his looks is offensive to this bi married man.  But you may be right, in which case it's still a stupid sentiment, but not offensive.

[Maria Caliban]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Er, how can you not see this as offensive? The quote says "Fenris looks gay," with a few extra words thrown in there.

Only someone that is uncouth and lives under a rock could say or think that without knowing that it would be offensive to other people.

How is saying Fenris looks gay offensive?

[C-Gamer90]

Panderfringe wrote...

Holy crap, can the internet get any creepier?

You underestimate the power of the internet.

[JohnstonMR]

halokitty wrote...

From what I've seen on the forums and the intertubes at large, it's considered pretty "Forever Alone" to put much interest or effort into the love interests in DA and ME.  Many people apparently wish Bioware would take them out completely and focus on the stabbing darkspawn aspects.  But I must confess, the romantic subplots are part of the games that I really enjoy and that I think sets the series' apart from standard (that is, non-Bioware) RPGs.  Romantic love is part of the human condition, a huge, integral, all-consuming part, actually.   Just yesterday, many of us celebrated an entire holiday based around the concept.  Adding that element to a game is just one more step toward the video game experiences becoming fully realized stories, rather than simply a series of tasks or fights or achievments. 

I agree.  The "Forever Alone" thing bugs the hell out of me, because I'm a happily married man who loves the romance in Bioware games (and in movies and other games too, for that matter).  As a bi guy, I do both the straight and gay/bi romances, and my wife often refers to the characters as my boyfriends/girlfriends (jokingly, of course).  She loves to play the Sims and takes great delight in matchmaking various orientations and genders in that game.

[Thiefy]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Er, how can you not see this as offensive? The quote says "Fenris looks gay," with a few extra words thrown in there.

Only someone that is uncouth and lives under a rock could say or think that without knowing that it would be offensive to other people.

How is saying Fenris looks gay offensive?

Seriously?

Try defining what a gay man should look like.

...Yeah, there you go. Can't do that with getting into some stereotypes, which is a nasty thing. No one likes being labeled.

I don't take it that way--using the word "gayhood" seems borderline
homophobic to me, and basing it on his looks is offensive to this bi
married man.  But you may be right, in which case it's still a stupid
sentiment, but not offensive.

There's this too.

[Bio D]

I am oddly dissapointed that Varric won't be a romance. I blame Aimo and the chesthair.

Oh well, whatcha gonna do?

[Naemi79]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

The stories are all by the writers of the characters. I wrote the Anders story, Dave Gaider wrote Fenris, Sheryl Chee wrote Isabela and Mary Kirby wrote Merrill.

Ty for the lovely stories! They gave a whole new look at some of the characters for me.  And I loved it

[Teknor]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Er, how can you not see this as offensive? The quote says "Fenris looks gay," with a few extra words thrown in there.

Only someone that is uncouth and lives under a rock could say or think that without knowing that it would be offensive to other people.

Looking gay is not bad or good. 

Modifié par Teknor, 15 février 2011 - 06:18 .

[Thiefy]

Teknor wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Er, how can you not see this as offensive? The quote says "Fenris looks gay," with a few extra words thrown in there.

Only someone that is uncouth and lives under a rock could say or think that without knowing that it would be offensive to other people.

Looking gay is not bad or good. 

Saying someone looks "gay" based on a few minutes of knowing them (or in our case, the few blurbs of info we have which says nothing about his sexuality) is stereotyping, which is bad.

[Jimmy Fury]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
Er, how can you not see this as offensive? The quote says "Fenris looks gay," with a few extra words thrown in there.

Because I just don't?

And seriously? Fangirls? Don't try to peg that discriminatory statement on them. Most yaoi fangirls are teenagers, and the majority of the ladies here are older than that. I've also yet to see any of the fangirls here refer to any of the male characters in such a derogitory way.

And yes, seriously, fangirls. Although i do apologize for that, I'll be less gender-specific since there are plenty of fenris fanboys around as well.
My point is simply that I don't find that statement any more or less offensive than the fans who say he should be the m/m LI because he's pretty.
Sorry but as a completely unpretty gay guy it gets a little exhausting reading that over and over again.

edit: almost forgot.
So yeah. To me saying "He should be bi because he's pretty!" is just as bad as saying "he looks gay". It plays on the exact same stereotype of assuming all gay men should look a certain way.

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 15 février 2011 - 06:26 .

[Teknor]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Saying someone looks "gay" based on a few minutes of knowing them (or in our case, the few blurbs of info we have which says nothing about his sexuality) is stereotyping, which is bad.

Fenris looks gay, at least that's my first impression. He may or may not be gay which is perfectly fine by me.  I think you try way too hard to get offended.

[RedRoo]

I don't think it's offensive-- if anything, I think it's some homosexual panic that we might be seeing.

[Thiefy]

Jimmy Fury wrote...
 Because I just don't?

Ok, well you can't personally see but a few other people do and I think their concerns should be acknowledged and not brushed aside. I have to agree with Johnston that the initial post did come off as borderline homophobic.

And yes, seriously, fangirls. Although i do apologize for that, I'll be less gender-specific since there are plenty of fenris fanboys around as well.
My point is simply that I don't find that statement any more or less offensive than the fans who say he should be the m/m LI because he's pretty.
Sorry but as a completely unpretty gay guy it gets a little exhausting reading that over and over again.

edit: almost forgot.
So yeah. To me saying "He should be bi because he's pretty!" is just as bad as saying "he looks gay". It plays on the exact same stereotype of assuming all gay men should look a certain way.

Well I guess I misunderstood what you were saying then because that is what I've been saying for several posts now.

Fenris looks gay, at least that's my first impression. He may or may not
be gay which is perfectly fine by me.  I think you try way too hard to
get offended.

So basically, you are saying you know you are stereotyping and you don't care if other people get offended by it. Thanks for the clear up.

I don't think it's offensive-- if anything, I think it's some homosexual panic that we might be seeing.

Hey, what's it like to have never been a minority before and never have your character attacked based on exaggerated media stereo types? I'd like to know.

Modifié par Thief-of-Hearts, 15 février 2011 - 06:36 .

[panamakira]

How is Fenris looking gay?

I thought we were assuming he might be a bi LI because,
1) Anders never showed any indication to liking men in Awakenings, so some people think he might stay with the same sexual orientation in DA2
2) Just because of the fact that Fenris is an elf, again, people assume for some strange reason that he's gonna be another Zevran.

In an case, 1) may not necessarily be true, as Anders in Awakenings liked to joke about a lot of things so he could've avoided the subjects of his sexuality OR after all the changes made with Vengeance, well maybe he doesn't care who he loves anymore and his preferance for women it's not there~

Either way, somebody "looking" gay is not an indication of somebody's sexuality. Fenris and Anders have both potential to be a bi LI.

[JohnstonMR]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Er, how can you not see this as offensive? The quote says "Fenris looks gay," with a few extra words thrown in there.

Only someone that is uncouth and lives under a rock could say or think that without knowing that it would be offensive to other people.

How is saying Fenris looks gay offensive?

First, it sets up the idea that there is a way of looking that is "gay."  I know a lot of gay men.  Most do not fit the stereotypical idea of "looks gay."  I also know straight men whom people assume are gay because of their appearance.  How is that not offensive? 

Try replacing a word.  Would it be offensive if the sentence was "Fenris looks Jewish"? 

[Jimmy Fury]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
Hey, what's it like to have never been a minority before and never have your character attacked based on exaggerated media stereo types? I'd like to know.

... <_<  [sigh]



Anyway back on topic... Is Jennifer Hepler still around or did she just come along to torment us? I may wither and perish and other exagerated response without more information on that whole... eating... people.... thing

[ankuu]

JohnstonMR wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Er, how can you not see this as offensive? The quote says "Fenris looks gay," with a few extra words thrown in there.

Only someone that is uncouth and lives under a rock could say or think that without knowing that it would be offensive to other people.

How is saying Fenris looks gay offensive?

First, it sets up the idea that there is a way of looking that is "gay."  I know a lot of gay men.  Most do not fit the stereotypical idea of "looks gay."  I also know straight men whom people assume are gay because of their appearance.  How is that not offensive? 

Try replacing a word.  Would it be offensive if the sentence was "Fenris looks Jewish"? 

QTF

[JohnstonMR]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

So yeah. To me saying "He should be bi because he's pretty!" is just as bad as saying "he looks gay". It plays on the exact same stereotype of assuming all gay men should look a certain way.

I don't disagree with this, but it doesn't make "He looks gay" any less offensive to me.  He doesn't look gay, he looks like an elf.  Who might or might not be gay. 

I used to be in a long term relationship with a guy.  During that time, it used to ****** me off that finding out I was in a M/M relationship surprised people based on the fact that I didn't look or act in a way they though of as being gay.  I may have stopped dating men due to being married, but that doesn't change that I find that kind of thing offensive, no matter which direction it comes from. 

[kalassy]

I would've thought that with the voice protag there would've been more playable characters this time and/or more romances. But maybe I was still thinking Mass Effect (which increased companions from the first to the second).

[JohnstonMR]

ankuu wrote...

JohnstonMR wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Er, how can you not see this as offensive? The quote says "Fenris looks gay," with a few extra words thrown in there.

Only someone that is uncouth and lives under a rock could say or think that without knowing that it would be offensive to other people.

How is saying Fenris looks gay offensive?

First, it sets up the idea that there is a way of looking that is "gay."  I know a lot of gay men.  Most do not fit the stereotypical idea of "looks gay."  I also know straight men whom people assume are gay because of their appearance.  How is that not offensive? 

Try replacing a word.  Would it be offensive if the sentence was "Fenris looks Jewish"? 

QTF

Not sure if you're agreeing or saying "Quit F------ talking."  Either way, I think I'll stop replying; I doubt I'll be changing any minds.