6813 réponses à ce sujet

[HolyJellyfish]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

MorningBird wrote...
Oh, I'm sure it's having a grand old time hanging out with HolyJellyFish's 'only guys'.

Then let me rephrase since apparantly my mild sarcasm was too mild.

I find it silly that both the Fenris and Anders complaint sections include statements of intimidation and envy on the part of male forum members:
" Because I cannot stand comparing my appearance to a fantasy character, therefore feel very inadequate when women online that I don't know are busier fawning"
" Because ladies are still interested in him, I find him still threatening and would recommend you make him look like a sack of meat or at least a broodmother."
Yet neither Meril nor Isabela's complaints sections include anything similarly specifying envy or intimidation on the part of female forum members.

My point was simply that those two complaints are universal and shouldn't really be reserved for just people criticizing Fenris and Anders.

Eh. I think you are looking into the post a bit too deeply, but I'll edit it so it doesn't sound so sexist.

[JediHealerCosmin]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

What I don't get is why so many people are criticizing a character based on his/her looks.

Here, I'm going to compile it in an easy simple form so we can always re-reference what is entirely wrong about these characters! Take note, Developers. For we are fans, and we know better despite any lack of training or professional experience in design & writing. We may not get paid for our opinions but boy do we have a lot of them and you HAVE to pay attention to make this game better!

Merrill : Looks like a little girl, her nose is weird, too short, sounds childish, inexperienced, virginal, god another elf, WTF booobz. Perhaps if you made her taller, gave her the face of Helen Mirren, and completely did away with her nose? Also - no mention of her sexual past what so ever, but it doesn't hurt to make her sexually aggressive and seem to know exactly what she is doing without giving any prior history lest it wound my pride, which is important because I am awesome.

Isabela: Her boobs are too big, she's too fat, she needs pants, rewrite her as a nun because being a pirate nun would be awesome, less flirtation, less ****ty, less female. Give her no boobs, make sure she's thin as a stick because she's a rogue. Take my word for it. Olive Oil was HAWT. There's a reason why Popeye wanted to TAP THAT.

Fenris: Beiber hair? White hair? Anime bishie? OMG, really? And he looks SO gay. And an elf. And tattoos. Because I cannot stand comparing my appearance to a fantasy character, therefore feel very inadequate when women online that I don't know are busier fawning and appreciating a fantasy character as opposed to ME who they SHOULD fawn over, I would prefer you just get rid of him all together or replace him with an unnattractive qunari.

Anders: Cannibalistic abomination who wears a skirt and has a spirit inside him.... mmmm... okay. Because ladies are still interested in him, I find him still threatening and would recommend you make him look like a sack of meat or at least a broodmother. That would be great.

Please. Take these criticisms into account and be sure to make changes accordingly. I know better because I am a fan, not because I know anything about the future of the story or really much about these characters at all.

I still know better because I am a fan.

kthnx kiss kiss xo xo

Dear God, I couldn't stop laughing over this. I still can't stop  
Hat tip to you good sir 

[Maelora]

Ugh, I'm gay and I don't 'look' it... whatever that means. I'm bohemian and geeky, sure, but I don't 'wear' my sexuality like an outfit.



I dislike Fenris because he looks like a load of walking cliches, but I support any guy or gal who wants him as a LI.

[Curlain]

I am hoping that Fenris isn't one of the bi options (but rather that Anders is the m bi option) for the character's own sake, otherwise he'll have a hard time not being seen as Zevran 2.0

Modifié par Curlain, 15 février 2011 - 08:06 .

[mesmerizedish]

Maelora wrote...

Ugh, I'm gay and I don't 'look' it... whatever that means. I'm bohemian and geeky, sure, but I don't 'wear' my sexuality like an outfit.

I dislike Fenris because he looks like a load of walking cliches, but I support any guy or gal who wants him as a LI.

Fenris doesn't look gay. He looks effeminate. Just like, oh, every fantasy elf ever? And even then, it's only because he has perfect skin and hair that he actually takes care of.

But, you can "look gay." Albin, in La Cage aux Folles, "looks gay." It absolutely brings up stereotypes because that's what it means. Whether or not it's offensive is another matter altogether. I know a lot of gay men, and none of them would be bothered by it. But if a gay person came up to me and said "I find that offensive," I wouldn't think him silly for feeling that way. It's not as bad as "looking lesbian." Goodness, don't get me started [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 15 février 2011 - 08:04 .

[sevalaricgirl]

Selenora wrote...

Ok. So Fen looks gay...Anders is a cannibal.....i will still romance them...am i a tennager? Sure......a 4 decades one....

Love it!  I'll join you there.  I'm also a 4 decades teen.

[KnightOfTwo]

Maelora wrote...

I dislike Fenris because he looks like a load of walking cliches, but I support any guy or gal who wants him as a LI.

I happen to agree with you completely on this. I could be proven wrong (and probably will be) after seeing him in game but right now he just seems like he has too many tropes going on.

Which is why Merrill is at the top of my list. She seems naive and kinda nerdy, in other words she stands out, at least to me.

*keeps fingers crossed for f/f merrill*

Modifié par KnightOfTwo, 15 février 2011 - 08:09 .

[AceofCrows]

disappointed that Varric wont be romanceable by my FemHawke :'(

[HolyJellyfish]

Curlain wrote...

I am hoping that Fenris isn't one of the bi options (but rather that Anders is the m bi option) for the character's own sake, otherwise he'll have a hard time not being seen as Zevran 2.0

I don't understand this comment, if only because Fenris is like Anti-Zevran. He couldn't be more different than Superman compared to Batman.

The only likeness they share is their species. That's it.

[kreite]

JediHealerCosmin wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

What I don't get is why so many people are criticizing a character based on his/her looks.

Here, I'm going to compile it in an easy simple form so we can always re-reference what is entirely wrong about these characters! Take note, Developers. For we are fans, and we know better despite any lack of training or professional experience in design & writing. We may not get paid for our opinions but boy do we have a lot of them and you HAVE to pay attention to make this game better!

Merrill : Looks like a little girl, her nose is weird, too short, sounds childish, inexperienced, virginal, god another elf, WTF booobz. Perhaps if you made her taller, gave her the face of Helen Mirren, and completely did away with her nose? Also - no mention of her sexual past what so ever, but it doesn't hurt to make her sexually aggressive and seem to know exactly what she is doing without giving any prior history lest it wound my pride, which is important because I am awesome.

Isabela: Her boobs are too big, she's too fat, she needs pants, rewrite her as a nun because being a pirate nun would be awesome, less flirtation, less ****ty, less female. Give her no boobs, make sure she's thin as a stick because she's a rogue. Take my word for it. Olive Oil was HAWT. There's a reason why Popeye wanted to TAP THAT.

Fenris: Beiber hair? White hair? Anime bishie? OMG, really? And he looks SO gay. And an elf. And tattoos. Because I cannot stand comparing my appearance to a fantasy character, therefore feel very inadequate when women online that I don't know are busier fawning and appreciating a fantasy character as opposed to ME who they SHOULD fawn over, I would prefer you just get rid of him all together or replace him with an unnattractive qunari.

Anders: Cannibalistic abomination who wears a skirt and has a spirit inside him.... mmmm... okay. Because ladies are still interested in him, I find him still threatening and would recommend you make him look like a sack of meat or at least a broodmother. That would be great.

Please. Take these criticisms into account and be sure to make changes accordingly. I know better because I am a fan, not because I know anything about the future of the story or really much about these characters at all.

I still know better because I am a fan.

kthnx kiss kiss xo xo

Dear God, I couldn't stop laughing over this. I still can't stop  
Hat tip to you good sir 

I second this fellows hat tip, bravo!

[prazision]

How is Fenris like Zevran? Fenris appears to have morals, from what we know, and is brooding and damaged, as opposed to happy-go-lucky Zevran.



Seriously, they're almost opposites.

[sonsonthebia07]

Curlain wrote...

I am hoping that Fenris isn't one of the bi options (but rather that Anders is the m bi option) for the character's own sake, otherwise he'll have a hard time not being seen as Zevran 2.0

Aye, I like Bioware breaking stereotypes. They do quite a fantastic job with dwarves in general, Varric especially, and I wouldn't mind having a straight elf for once...

I personally am reserving all judgment on Fenris until I meet the character in-game.

[HolyJellyfish]

prazision wrote...

How is Fenris like Zevran? Fenris appears to have morals, from what we know, and is brooding and damaged, as opposed to happy-go-lucky Zevran.

Seriously, they're almost opposites.

Zevran would rather avoid a problem, Fenris prefers to deal with it head on.
Zevran is happy and optimistic, Fenris is brooding and angry.
Zevran is a rogue assassin, Fenris is a two handed warrior fugitive
Zevran is a hedonist, Fenris is a stoic.

They are so different it makes my teeth hurt. The only likeness they share is that they are both good looking elves. If Fenris was a human, such comparisons wouldn't exist.

[nelly21]

kreite wrote...

JediHealerCosmin wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

What I don't get is why so many people are criticizing a character based on his/her looks.

Here, I'm going to compile it in an easy simple form so we can always re-reference what is entirely wrong about these characters! Take note, Developers. For we are fans, and we know better despite any lack of training or professional experience in design & writing. We may not get paid for our opinions but boy do we have a lot of them and you HAVE to pay attention to make this game better!

Merrill : Looks like a little girl, her nose is weird, too short, sounds childish, inexperienced, virginal, god another elf, WTF booobz. Perhaps if you made her taller, gave her the face of Helen Mirren, and completely did away with her nose? Also - no mention of her sexual past what so ever, but it doesn't hurt to make her sexually aggressive and seem to know exactly what she is doing without giving any prior history lest it wound my pride, which is important because I am awesome.

Isabela: Her boobs are too big, she's too fat, she needs pants, rewrite her as a nun because being a pirate nun would be awesome, less flirtation, less ****ty, less female. Give her no boobs, make sure she's thin as a stick because she's a rogue. Take my word for it. Olive Oil was HAWT. There's a reason why Popeye wanted to TAP THAT.

Fenris: Beiber hair? White hair? Anime bishie? OMG, really? And he looks SO gay. And an elf. And tattoos. Because I cannot stand comparing my appearance to a fantasy character, therefore feel very inadequate when women online that I don't know are busier fawning and appreciating a fantasy character as opposed to ME who they SHOULD fawn over, I would prefer you just get rid of him all together or replace him with an unnattractive qunari.

Anders: Cannibalistic abomination who wears a skirt and has a spirit inside him.... mmmm... okay. Because ladies are still interested in him, I find him still threatening and would recommend you make him look like a sack of meat or at least a broodmother. That would be great.

Please. Take these criticisms into account and be sure to make changes accordingly. I know better because I am a fan, not because I know anything about the future of the story or really much about these characters at all.

I still know better because I am a fan.

kthnx kiss kiss xo xo

Dear God, I couldn't stop laughing over this. I still can't stop  
Hat tip to you good sir 

I second this fellows hat tip, bravo!

My God. I salute you. 

I still hate Fenris though

[mesmerizedish]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Curlain wrote...

I am hoping that Fenris isn't one of the bi options (but rather that Anders is the m bi option) for the character's own sake, otherwise he'll have a hard time not being seen as Zevran 2.0

I don't understand this comment, if only because Fenris is like Anti-Zevran. He couldn't be more different than Superman compared to Batman.

The only likeness they share is their species. That's it.

Isabela's Leliana 2.0. Not only are they both human, but they're both rogues too. There's no escaping that one, BioWare dropped the ball there.

[Curlain]

prazision wrote...

How is Fenris like Zevran? Fenris appears to have morals, from what we know, and is brooding and damaged, as opposed to happy-go-lucky Zevran.

Seriously, they're almost opposites.

On the surface Zevran appeared to have no moral, but though once you dug below the surface he was quite a broken person, who used the happy-go-lucky front to survive in his way of life.  I'll agree with the brooding bit howerver.  I guess while in reality they may be different in a number of ways, I was thinking to quite a few people will jus think, 'ah so he's the bi-sexual elf this time around' and not look any deeper into his character but just assume he's similar to Zevran.  Maybe I'm wrong and hope I am

Modifié par Curlain, 15 février 2011 - 08:18 .

[sonsonthebia07]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Curlain wrote...

I am hoping that Fenris isn't one of the bi options (but rather that Anders is the m bi option) for the character's own sake, otherwise he'll have a hard time not being seen as Zevran 2.0

I don't understand this comment, if only because Fenris is like Anti-Zevran. He couldn't be more different than Superman compared to Batman.

The only likeness they share is their species. That's it.

Isabela's Leliana 2.0. Not only are they both human, but they're both rogues too. There's no escaping that one, BioWare dropped the ball there.

Damn and we also have a Wynne 2.0 in Bethany. They are both female humans and mages,

[Minxie]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

prazision wrote...

How is Fenris like Zevran? Fenris appears to have morals, from what we know, and is brooding and damaged, as opposed to happy-go-lucky Zevran.

Seriously, they're almost opposites.

Zevran would rather avoid a problem, Fenris prefers to deal with it head on.
Zevran is happy and optimistic, Fenris is brooding and angry.
Zevran is a rogue assassin, Fenris is a two handed warrior fugitive
Zevran is a hedonist, Fenris is a stoic.

They are so different it makes my teeth hurt. The only likeness they share is that they are both good looking elves. If Fenris was a human, such comparisons wouldn't exist.

Agreed, their personalities are very different which is very refreshing.

But there's also this to consider:

Pyrrhus of Epirus wrote...
Fenris seems like he'll be an amazing character, and I'm sure I'll love
him, but I think it'll be... uncomfortable if he's the bi LI. There are
some unfortunate implications when the bi male is once again a foreign
elf with a history of slavery and abuse, who you can easily cut out of
your party. Their personalities may be very different, but that's a
pattern.

I'll happily take Fenris, straight or bi, but that's part of the reason why if I had a choice I'd pick Anders for the m/m. (That, but mostly because I wanna romance Anders as a dude )

[mesmerizedish]

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

Damn and we also have a Wynne 2.0 in Bethany. They are both female humans and mages,

Frak me, you're right. Well, I'm canceling my pre-order. Looks like I've practically played the game already! Unoriginal nitwits on the dev team, all of them.

[TheLiterator]

prazision wrote...

How is Fenris like Zevran? Fenris appears to have morals, from what we know, and is brooding and damaged, as opposed to happy-go-lucky Zevran.

Seriously, they're almost opposites.

Did you play the same game I did? Zevran was a self-loathing suicidal person who was so immersed in his guilt over something that happened two years before the game he couldn't trust anyone. Happy-go-lucky my sweet petunia.

But on that note-- Fenris seems to be more a survivalist than any of that, going off Gaider's little story there.

For the record: I don't have an opinion on whether they're alike or not, I just have a hard time with "Zevran was happy-go-lucky"

[AllThatJazz]

Curlain wrote...

prazision wrote...

How is Fenris like Zevran? Fenris appears to have morals, from what we know, and is brooding and damaged, as opposed to happy-go-lucky Zevran.

Seriously, they're almost opposites.

On the surface Zevran appeared to have no moral, but though once you dug below the surface he was quite a broken person, who used the happy-go-lucky front to survive in his way of life.  I'll agree with the brooding bit howerver.  I guess while in reality they may be different in a number of ways, I was thinking to quite a few people will jus think, 'ah so he's the bi-sexual elf this time around' and not look any deeper into his character but just assume he's similar to Zevran.  Maybe I'm wrong and hope I am

This. Holy Jellyfish's (brilliant) post was all about making snap judgements based on looks alone - and if Fenris is the m/m option a lot of people will just assume Zev mark II, or maybe think that Bio is making some kind of commentary on 'looking gay' (hideous phrase) or something by repeating the bisexual Elf motif. This despite the huge differences in character. A shame. Nonetheless, it's why I still think Anders is the more likely bet for m/m LI.

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 15 février 2011 - 08:33 .

[KnightOfTwo]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Curlain wrote...

I am hoping that Fenris isn't one of the bi options (but rather that Anders is the m bi option) for the character's own sake, otherwise he'll have a hard time not being seen as Zevran 2.0

I don't understand this comment, if only because Fenris is like Anti-Zevran. He couldn't be more different than Superman compared to Batman.

The only likeness they share is their species. That's it.

Isabela's Leliana 2.0. Not only are they both human, but they're both rogues too. There's no escaping that one, BioWare dropped the ball there.

No no no, you clearly don't see it. Aveline is Leliana 2.0 because they are both red heads.

[AceofCrows]

game all about choice but choices are limited to these four. Aveline as a LI would probably make a good story. Merrill would just seem a little illegal cuz she looks only like she is 15 or 16

[astreqwerty]

no varrick?yeah babeeey



merill can suck my shocks..isabela certainly and i may become a little curious on third playthrough

[Maelora]

I didn't see Zevran as happy-go-lucky. I thought that was just a facade that hid a very damaged individual.



Sleeping with Zevran was easy. Getting him to fall in love with you was harder, but rewarding. My dwarf noble wouldn't be the same without his boyfriend.



I kinda expect Isabela to be the same... Easy to bed but tougher for her to 'let feelings get involved'.



Also, for those old enough to remember, Viconia deVir in BG.