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[aMytallica]

I’ve been thinking about this for a little while now, and I’m just curious about whether this has been brought up before or whether anyone else has any theories on this. I've been browsing through the forums for a while but can't find anything..
 
From what we know in Origins, and what Alistair believes himself, his mother was a maid. In The Calling however, Maric has an illegitimate child with an Elven mage named Fiona. She makes Maric promise that the child be told that his mother was human and had died, and Duncan himself promised to watch over him, which indicates that the child is still alive, but no one knows of his whereabouts.
 
Could this be referring to Alistair? If he is the illegitimate child mentioned in The Calling, then Goldanna can’t be his real sister (unless they were to share the same father of course. Unlikely?). This would mean the existence of Goldanna’s mother was used to cover the truth. So maybe the baby Goldanna’s mother had really did die, which would mean Maric had another illegitimate child. Albeit one that didn't survive.
 
Is it mentioned anywhere how Alistair found out about Goldanna? If his real mother is actually Fiona then who told him the lie about his mother being Goldanna and her mother? If it was a lie, why tell him it was someone who had another existing child?
 
This is all assuming of course that Fiona is his mother. If she’s not, then whatever happened to her baby? Another one of Maric’s sons is running around somewhere…
 
Too many questions! Has this been answered or explained somewhere else? I'd really like to know!

[Addai]

It's been discussed many times here in various threads. It's pretty established fanon, though never confirmed by the writers, that the baby in The Calling is Alistair. There are odd details that don't fit, but a lot of really glaring ones do, like Duncan looking out for the child and Fiona asking that he be told that his mother his human and dead.  Gaider also corrected the timeline (Cailan's age) and Alistair's age, putting Alistair in range to be born around the right time.

David Gaider has said that we'll find out what happened to Fiona and Maric. I assume this means we could find out for sure whether Alistair is Fionaspawn or not.

Modifié par Addai67, 15 février 2011 - 05:01 .

[errant_knight]

That's a popular theory for many, but has been neither confirmed nor denied. Me, I'm not going to believe it until it's actually in a game or book for a couple of reasons. One, I think it just makes things that much worse for Alistair. Being abandoned by one parent is bad enough, but two? That's pretty horrible, whatever their reasons may have been. Two, I'd like to think that there's still an heir of the Calenhad line out there somewhere--one who's capable of continuing the line.

Lots of people like the notion so much they practically consider it canon, though.

(Lol, 'Fionaspawn'....)

Modifié par errant_knight, 15 février 2011 - 05:02 .

[aMytallica]

I figured it had to have been discussed a lot at some point. Thanks for that!



I think I like the idea of Fiona being his mother. It would mean that he has a mother alive out there somewhere. Although I never considered the side that he would have been abondoned by both his parents if that is the case.

[OBakaSama]

I've been sceptical about Alistair being Fiona's child myself (so I think I'm in the minority).

After all Fiona wanted her son to lead a normal life. So why would her son be told he's the son of Maric? That is by no means 'normal' if you ask me (which no-one did, but figure of speech and all that), and would seem to go against her wishes which I can't really see Maric doing at the time.

Personally I'd like to think Fiona's son is Anders.

[errant_knight]

OBakaSama wrote...

I've been sceptical about Alistair being Fiona's child myself (so I think I'm in the minority).

After all Fiona wanted her son to lead a normal life. So why would her son be told he's the son of Maric? That is by no means 'normal' if you ask me (which no-one did, but figure of speech and all that), and would seem to go against her wishes which I can't really see Maric doing at the time.

Personally I'd like to think Fiona's son is Anders.

I agree about the normal life. It's hardly normal to know yourself to be the bastard, unwanted son of a king, and to grow up sleeping in a stable. He could just as easily have been placed with a scholar, a blacksmith or a merchant and raised to think that was his lineage. To me, his upbringing only makes sense if he really is the product of a one night stand with a servant. In that case, his situation was far more secure than most children born in similar circumstances.

Modifié par errant_knight, 15 février 2011 - 11:24 .

[Glorfindel709]

I believe (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) Mr Gaider already came out and said that Anders is not related to Alistair in any way. Which makes him being a Therin bastard impossible.

[errant_knight]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

I believe (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) Mr Gaider already came out and said that Anders is not related to Alistair in any way. Which makes him being a Therin bastard impossible.

Right, that's true, he did.

[Addai]

Even if you assume that Maric boffed a maid around the same time he was with Fiona, and that Duncan was also looking after that baby (or else randomly recruited him), it doesn't make any sense that Maric would want to recognize Fiona's child and be concerned about him not having to carry his legacy but show no inclination to recognize the maid's child nor any concern about concealing his patrimony. That just stretches the logic of The Calling beyond belief. Naturally DG can still surprise us, but it better be a pretty good story on how that happened.

It's much more logical for me to believe that Maric trusted Eamon with Fiona's child and Eamon mucked it up.

Modifié par Addai67, 16 février 2011 - 03:10 .

[errant_knight]

I don't see why he'd feel the need to publicly acknowledge a child he had with a woman he didn't know or care about as long as he believed that child would come to no harm. I can see that he'd have to make sure that child posed no threat. I think telling Alistair who he was probably came out of the fact that everyone though Eamon was his father. And if Duncan can randomly recruit the origins, I don't see any reason why he couldn't randomly recruit Alistair. If anything, it's a bit more likely as he's a whole lot like his father in many ways.

[Nuclear Pete]

This is my theory, assuming Fiona is his mother.



Alistair would have lived relatively normal life as a grey warden, if not for Cailens death. My Guess is, while respecting Finoa's wishes Duncan, Arl Eamon and perhaps Maric would have come to the conclusions that if anything were to happen to Cailen, Alistair would have a responsibility to the throne.



Therefore, I don’t believe he could ever really live a “normal” life.

[Glorfindel709]

Honestly, while I personally side more with the Fiona = Alistairs mum, I can see it going both ways. I expect that Eamon told Alistair because everyone thought Eamon was the father and he didnt want to give Alistair the wrong impression.



I guess we'll have to wait til Gaider decides to come clean

[White_Buffalo94]

OBakaSama wrote...

I've been sceptical about Alistair being Fiona's child myself (so I think I'm in the minority).

After all Fiona wanted her son to lead a normal life. So why would her son be told he's the son of Maric? That is by no means 'normal' if you ask me (which no-one did, but figure of speech and all that), and would seem to go against her wishes which I can't really see Maric doing at the time.

Personally I'd like to think Fiona's son is Anders.

Would be awesome, but DG said Alistair and Anders have no relation whatsoever

[aMytallica]

Nuclear Pete wrote...

This is my theory, assuming Fiona is his mother.

Alistair would have lived relatively normal life as a grey warden, if not for Cailens death. My Guess is, while respecting Finoa's wishes Duncan, Arl Eamon and perhaps Maric would have come to the conclusions that if anything were to happen to Cailen, Alistair would have a responsibility to the throne.

Therefore, I don’t believe he could ever really live a “normal” life.

I agree. Especially with Marics possible involvement. We're only really seeing this story from Alistair's perspective. It is mentioned that Maric hid Alistair's existence to keep it secret from his wife. Maybe Maric did care about Alistair to a point (he did leave him in Eamon's care after all) Enough to want him to know that he was his father perhaps, and as you said, a responsilbilty to take the throne.

[SynGMW]

I just finished The Calling earlier today and was hoping to actually discuss this very topic, so it was a pleasant surprise to find this thread just now. I assumed Alistair was Fiona's, but the issue of Goldanna was a troubling point to me, but maybe Goldanna's mother was just picked to raise him? The other thing I was trying to figure out is that on pg. 54 (of my copy, it's in ch. 3 while they're riding in to the Circle), Maric has the Grey Wardens stop at a small house that he enters alone. My first thought upon reading that was that he was visiting Alistair, or at least Alistair's mommy, but then everything with Fiona made me have to think about it more. So, my question is, if Alistair is Fiona's, then who's house did Maric visit, and if he was visiting Alistair, then who is Fiona's baby?

[errant_knight]

SynGMW wrote...

I just finished The Calling earlier today and was hoping to actually discuss this very topic, so it was a pleasant surprise to find this thread just now. I assumed Alistair was Fiona's, but the issue of Goldanna was a troubling point to me, but maybe Goldanna's mother was just picked to raise him? The other thing I was trying to figure out is that on pg. 54 (of my copy, it's in ch. 3 while they're riding in to the Circle), Maric has the Grey Wardens stop at a small house that he enters alone. My first thought upon reading that was that he was visiting Alistair, or at least Alistair's mommy, but then everything with Fiona made me have to think about it more. So, my question is, if Alistair is Fiona's, then who's house did Maric visit, and if he was visiting Alistair, then who is Fiona's baby?

My pet theory is that further down the road when there's no heir to the throne in Ferelden and civil war is looming, Fiona's child, or more likely, grandchild, will come into play. But who's to say, really?

[Addai]

How could the house he's visiting in the Bannorn have been Alistair's mother, if she was a maid in Redcliffe Castle and that's where he grew up?

[Addai]

errant_knight wrote...

I don't see why he'd feel the need to publicly acknowledge a child he had with a woman he didn't know or care about as long as he believed that child would come to no harm. I can see that he'd have to make sure that child posed no threat. I think telling Alistair who he was probably came out of the fact that everyone though Eamon was his father. And if Duncan can randomly recruit the origins, I don't see any reason why he couldn't randomly recruit Alistair. If anything, it's a bit more likely as he's a whole lot like his father in many ways.

Maric wants to acknowledge Fiona's baby- that's his first inclination (and also what Loghain says of his character, that he would live up to his responsibility).  The only reason he doesn't is because she insists on secrecy.  So if that is how Maric responds to illegitimate child A, he just tosses illegitimate child B aside without a second thought and when everyone already knows he's his son anyway??  How does that make any sense?

If Alistair had to be told that he was the king's son because people believed he was Eamon's, that kinda undercuts what you were saying earlier, that Fiona couldn't be the mother because it wouldn't make sense for people to know her baby was Maric's.

[Glorfindel709]

I myself am perfectly happy to say "Eamon f@&ked up" and leave it at that

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

I don't see why he'd feel the need to publicly acknowledge a child he had with a woman he didn't know or care about as long as he believed that child would come to no harm. I can see that he'd have to make sure that child posed no threat. I think telling Alistair who he was probably came out of the fact that everyone though Eamon was his father. And if Duncan can randomly recruit the origins, I don't see any reason why he couldn't randomly recruit Alistair. If anything, it's a bit more likely as he's a whole lot like his father in many ways.

Maric wants to acknowledge Fiona's baby- that's his first inclination (and also what Loghain says of his character, that he would live up to his responsibility).  The only reason he doesn't is because she insists on secrecy.  So if that is how Maric responds to illegitimate child A, he just tosses illegitimate child B aside without a second thought and when everyone already knows he's his son anyway??  How does that make any sense?

If Alistair had to be told that he was the king's son because people believed he was Eamon's, that kinda undercuts what you were saying earlier, that Fiona couldn't be the mother because it wouldn't make sense for people to know her baby was Maric's.

Maybe you could dial it back a notch, huh? We should be able to discuss this without throwing things like 'how does that make sense?' around and impugning each other's ideas.

Everyone doesn't know that Alistair is his son. It's a secret and only comes out when Eamon puts Alistair forward. Loghain and Anora know, and I expect Cailan did, too, but that doesn't make it common knowledge. It's not the same situation for the king to say 'I had this baby with the woman I love, a grey warden, and I acknowlege him' and 'I slept with a chamber maid at Eamon's when I may or may not have been married and she had this baby. '

[Glorfindel709]

@Errant, I thought the DG Timeline put Alistairs birth sometime after Rowans death?

[errant_knight]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

@Errant, I thought the DG Timeline put Alistairs birth sometime after Rowans death?

Could be. I wasn't sure about that, which is why I said may or may not. That makes it less bad, but I'm still not sure he'd want to advertise that kind of indescretion, or that he's think he was doing Alistair any favors by doing so. I think it's quite likely that Alistair was never intended to know, excepty under dire circumstances.

Modifié par errant_knight, 16 février 2011 - 04:22 .

[Addai]

errant_knight wrote...
Maybe you could dial it back a notch, huh? We should be able to discuss this without throwing things like 'how does that make sense?' around and impugning each other's ideas.

If you can make me see the logic, I'd be welcome to consider it.

Everyone doesn't know that Alistair is his son. It's a secret and only comes out when Eamon puts Alistair forward. Loghain and Anora know, and I expect Cailan did, too, but that doesn't make it common knowledge. It's not the same situation for the king to say 'I had this baby with the woman I love, a grey warden, and I acknowlege him' and 'I slept with a chamber maid at Eamon's when I may or may not have been married and she had this baby. '

Seems a fairly open secret.  He says he was teased for putting on airs about it.  And his birth can't have been in Rowan's lifetime because Gaider has stated on the forum that Alistair is early 20s.  He also corrected Cailan's age to put him at 5 years during the Calling- and Cailan is 5 years older than Alistair in Origins.

[LadyBri]

I just recently re-read "The Calling", and again I am left with the impression that Alistair is Fiona and Maric's son. Of course, it could still also be possible that some mystery son will pop up in a later game or book to blow this theory out of the water, but with all that we know now it just feels to me like it's Alistair.



Plus, in both books the way Maric is described I can't picture him just randomly sleeping with a maid. Sure, he was more Rowan's friend than true love, but he cared for Rowan and respected her and I don't think he would do something so disrespectful like sleeping with a maid at her family home. Maric, like Alistair, is not a casual lover so him chasing maids and getting them pregnant just doesn't make sense.

[errant_knight]

[quote]Addai67 wrote...

[quote]errant_knight wrote...
Maybe you could dial it back a notch, huh? We should be able to discuss this without throwing things like 'how does that make sense?' around and impugning each other's ideas. [/quote]
If you can make me see the logic, I'd be welcome to consider it.
[quote]
Or we could just be moderately polite whether we agree with each other's logic or not.