278 réponses à ce sujet

[s0meguy6672]

I'll go out of my way to crush the chantry & templar fascists.

Though this thread sounds kinda trolly/attention whor-e.

Modifié par s0meguy6672, 15 février 2011 - 07:14 .

[D.Kain]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I hope we can side with the Chantry and the Templars in DA II. Mages are simply too dangerous to live.

Damn right we are dangerous! We are the makers children! We are the new begining and the end! You filthy thrall will serve us or die a painful and slow death. Our time has come! Mages unite! Burn the chantry, burn the templars, let us sit in the golden halls of the maker, do it right this time!

Edit: Seriously though. That's my playthrough right there. Magic is ment to serve mages and to rule over everybody else.

Modifié par D.Kain, 15 février 2011 - 07:17 .

[LobselVith8]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I respectfully disagree. It's not cherry picking

Yes it was.

It's not cherry picking when I point out a fundamental aspect to the Circle that wasn't addressed.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

to point out the fundamental nature of what the Circle currently is and not what it should be.

That's not what you did, though.

There's a difference between a prison and a place of learning, so I don't agree with your point.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

That doesn't mean it can't be undone.

It kind of does.  At least not in the way people are presupposing.

It wouldn't be the first time in history that two groups of people who nobody thought could live together ended up proving everyone wrong.

[October Sixth]

LobselVith8 wrote...

October Sixth wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

So you decided to mock the other side of the argument? I don't see the purpose to it. Why not act like an adult instead?

You don't listen to reason, so there is no point in using it.

So I lack reason because I refuse to agree with you?

No, I'm not sure why you lack reason.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

Love you too Maria

[upsettingshorts]

LobselVith8 wrote...

It's not cherry picking when I point out a fundamental aspect to the Circle that wasn't addressed.

Yes it was, observe:

LobselVith8 wrote...

There's a difference between a prison and a place of learning, so I don't agree with your point.

Not when I claim that it is both.  

LobselVith8 wrote...

It wouldn't be the first time in history that two groups of people who nobody thought could live together ended up proving everyone wrong.

History doesn't have mages.  History also doesn't have too many examples of top-down, absolute, unilateral violent revolutions either.  Popular local support - and "local" means the community and where it resides which in this case is anywhere where mages are under Chantry control, and this demands a significant number of sympathetic mundanes - is almost mandatory.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 février 2011 - 07:18 .

[LobselVith8]

October Sixth wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

So I lack reason because I refuse to agree with you?

No, I'm not sure why you lack reason.

Your behavior makes you little more than a troll. There's no reason to attack people because they disagree with your viewpoint.

[HolyJellyfish]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Sounds like 1984 man. Just like it. The chantry's just doing for everyone's good, and everyone is afraid of mages. Anyone who hides a mage can be prosecuted. People are forced to out Mages, even if they maybe close friends, family members, loved ones,for the good of the state...

I've read 1984.  I've studied 1984.  The Circle Tower is not like 1984.  The Chantry is not the state.  The mages are not regular people. 

But that wasn't my point.  My point was that the institution exists and cannot be washed away without consequences.  Consequences that are often acknowledged in such discussions, but never seriously considered.

While there are some main stay differences, for the most part there are connections between Chantry, Oceania, and any other totalitarian police state. Any country ruled by the Chantry is, effectively, a police government.

Indeed, I'm not disagreeing that there wouldn't be consequences. Every revolution has consequences. These happen when power dynamics shift. Sometimes they are negative, sometimes positive.

As far as the question of mages and their role, I've heard both sides of the coin, and I'm still siding with mages. If the Arlathan did it before and the Dalish are capable of governing themselves now, mages and non-mages can live peacefully. The chantry's way of doing things just doesn't sit well with me, specifically because I get the notion they are doing it less to protect people and more to safeguard their own political power.

Modifié par HolyJellyfish, 15 février 2011 - 07:20 .

[lost lupus]

ah yes distroy mages they are dangrous see 1 shot mana clash on a desire demon!



also as mages are the quickest way for desire demons to reach through the fade shouldnt you support them?



also im conflicted on one hand anarchy is cool one the other it will prevent's the Magi from once again ruling the backward non magic folk! Go Tevinter



also how come theirs non jibes at normal people in DA? maleficar, apostate, hedge mage

wheres harsh slang back at the Templars? are mages above it?

[HighMoon]

Slightly off topic, but, here are my guesses on some key character's views on the Chantry and Templars...



Anders - Anti-Chantry, Anti-Templars

Aveline - Pro-chantry, Pro-Templars

Bethany - Neutral towards the Chantry, Anti-Templars

Carver - Neutral

Fenris - Neutral, however, he dislikes mages, so I'm guessing he would sooner side with the templars and chantry

Isabela - Neutral, perhaps leaning slightly towards the anti-chantry side

Merrill - Anti-Chantry, Anti-Templars

Sebastian - Pro-Templars and Chantry

Varric - Neutral



It would seem that Meredith and Orsino are going to be on the extreme ends of pro/anti Chantry. Cassandra is clearly in support of the Chantry. Hawke's mother couldn't give a hoot about the Chantry or Templars, seeing as she married an apostate and had children with him, and didn't hand Bethany (or Hawke) to the Circle. She may even be against them. Flemeth... who knows. Probably anti-chantry.

[mesmerizedish]

Hey, guys. Guys, Fat Lee + jumprope = win. No exceptions.



This is what I do when I have nothing constructive to say.

[October Sixth]

LobselVith8 wrote...

October Sixth wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

So I lack reason because I refuse to agree with you?

No, I'm not sure why you lack reason.

There's no reason to attack people because they disagree with your viewpoint.

Agreed. That's why I don't.

[Fidget6]

s0meguy6672 wrote...

I'll go out of my way to crush the chantry & templar fascists.

Oh come now, they're not so bad. You'd want to keep tabs on the people who could light your balls on fire with their mind too wouldn't you? 

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Filament wrote...

I agree, and let's start with our sister. Or should I say, that woman who claims to be our sister, but no sister of mine is some filthy mage freak.

Come on Filament, in DA2 world, you know you're no better. 

[LobselVith8]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Not when I claim that it is both.  

Prisons have also provided prisoners with academic opportunities, but it doesn't change that it's not an institute of learning. The Circle is no different; it's primary function is to isolate the mages from the rest of society, and keep the mages under the authority of the military arm of the Chantry.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

History doesn't have mages.  History also doesn't have too many examples of top-down, absolute, unilateral violent revolutions either.  Popular local support - and "local" means the community and where it resides which in this case is anywhere where mages are under Chantry control, and this demands a significant number of sympathetic mundanes - is almost mandatory.

And the fact that there are people who don't think the Chantry controlled Circles are the proper means - per the codex - illustrates that not everyone agrees with what the templars do. Unexpected and transcendent change is a possibility.

[Dr. Explosion]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

As far as the question of mages and their role, I've heard both sides of the coin, and I'm still siding with mages. If the Arlathan did it before and the Dalish are capable of governing themselves now, mages and non-mages can live peacefully. The chantry's way of doing things just doesn't sit well with me, specifically because I get the notion they are doing it less to protect people and more to safeguard their own political power.

This.

I can understand why some think mages need to be watched by the chantry / templars, hells bells I even agree that it is prolly one of the better solutions, but as a die hard mage fan, I'm all for them breaking free and proving to the world that they can indeed police themselves and that they aren't as big a threat as the chantry insists they are





...until Uldred 2.0 comes along and ruins it for everyone:P (sorry, couldn't resist; I'm incapable of being serious for more than 3 minutes and 27 seconds)

[upsettingshorts]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Prisons have also provided prisoners with academic opportunities

Which isn't relevant.  I am saying they are prisons (which can have academic opportunities, sure) anyway.  We have access to an example of daily life in the Circle Tower in the mage origin.  I saw plenty of learning and teaching going on.   It was just as prevalent as the watchful eye of the Templars.

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Circle is no different; it's primary function is to isolate the mages from the rest of society, and keep the mages under the authority of the military arm of the Chantry.

That it is the primary function does not invalidate its other functions.  The whole situation must be considered, unless we (or our characters) are being idealogues.  

LobselVith8 wrote...

And the fact that there are people who don't think the Chantry controlled Circles are the proper means - per the codex - illustrates that not everyone agrees with what the templars do. Unexpected and transcendent change is a possibility.

And if the people rise up to overthrow the status quo in just that way, I wouldn't be making this argument.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 février 2011 - 07:55 .

[ObserverStatus]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I hope we can side with the Chantry and the Templars in DA II. Mages are simply too dangerous to live.

That's a low blow, how would you feel if I said that desire spirits are simpy too dangerous to live?

Modifié par bobobo878, 15 février 2011 - 07:56 .

[Teknor]

Mages spawned Darkspawn, they need to be controlled.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

Maria Caliban wrote...
Mages are simply too dangerous to live.

More importantly, they all have cooties. Death to them all I say!

[Knight_47K]

GodWood wrote...

General Malor wrote...
I actually, answering seriously and on topic here, really do hope that we can wipe out the Chantry and all their Templars.

The Bioware forums seem to attract a lot of anarchists.

And ones with fetish for genocides no less

[Silvanend]

Let me pose this question to you all, If you had a special power or magic which very few in the world had, would you not use that power to push your interests and desires forward? Would you not be inclined to use that power for yourself rather for the good of humanity? Mages must be controlled, people simply are unable to control themselves when given such vast powers such as the powers of the Arcane. Power Corrupts, Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.

[GameBoyish]

wait, why is Maria trolling...?