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The Chantry blows! It's time to remove them from power.


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#76
JJDrakken

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ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Rompa87 wrote...

Atheism as a philosophical and moral viewpoint exists in a society that is supposedly anchored in mediaeval Europe? I'm not talking about a simple lack of faith, of course. That has been around for as long as time


Morrigan's an atheist.


Actually from what The Hero of Ferelden mentioned to us, she believes in the maker, she just doens't believe in how we go about it.  She knows The Maker left us twice even! because we are such blood thirsty type -looks at the crazy mages-

But alas, your misinformation must be used to fuel your agenda I guess.


JJ

#77
JJDrakken

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(Off to work, was fun, check in after work for more fun) -winks-





JJ

#78
KenKenpachi

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Mike2640 wrote...

Then we'll take them out too. To invoke Godwins Law a little early here, when Hitler and the ****s were taken out of power Nega-Hitler and the Super ****s didn't rise up to replace them.

 
Err Cold War? Whole of Eastern Europe and Eastern Germany under control of the USSR, Threat of global atomic war  daily till the 1980's, And well a bit of people did die at the hands of the Soviet Liberators. So yes a New Hitler did not rise up, someone else did his name was Stalin. Reminds me of a Humorous qoute "World War Two was really a Race between Stalin and Hitler to see who could kill more Russians. Stalin Won." And lets not forget the 60's all the trouble over Cuba, "Broken Arrows". Or the Fact that the Germans DID resist for some time after the war till the Allies and Soviets adopted **** tactics in dealing with the werewolves. Also given Soviet dominace it set up a dangerous Chess game that makes todays concerns and politics look like checkers.

So your right no new Hitler, the best he managed was to threaten Europe, jews, and Moscow. 

I really don't understand the hate for the Chantry here, sure they treat mages baddly and I mean that term moderatly, I've seen no outward abuse of power by the chantry no more than some modern religious institutions whoes black marks were not possible without government support. A prophate can yell all he wants at another group and indeed some will fallow them, but not to a great extent.

Modern Islamist extreamist are proof of that. But if you look at the Crusades well national goverments give the same fanatics more firepower. So is the Chantry really that bad? More so than anything else? Or would you like to live next to someone who without training could set your hair on fire for making fun of them? Maybe the Chantry is not needed but undisputeablly is the fact SOME oversight is needed. As a close example as possible lets look at the FBI in the 50's they pretty much arrested and made anyone vanish that they wanted gone, those people had more power than me or you and are equal in terms to the mages of Dragon age.

Sure they could not set you on fire, but no one would ever find your body had you been spotted as a Communist. Can any of us here make anyone vanish for political views with no backlash? Eventually the FBI Finally had oversight for better or worse based on your views and it still is a powerful orginization. So though you may not agree with the chantry it should not be taken with a grain of salt that the mages can do it themselves. The KGB for another example was an orginization that policed its self and had a seat on the Soviet Government, and listen to no one, even a General of the Army was not beyond being shot in some basement. Russia's Modern FSB operates under Goverment oversight and though many as we call them in the West Civil Abuses happen, you don't see massed deportations to Siberia or thousands of people dying at any given time.

In short you may hate the Chantry but what makes you think the mages could hold power in there own hands and not have bad repercussions. Its like Jedi and Sith, but keep in mind pretty much ALL sith came from the Jedi ranks. All I'm saying is sure tear down the Chantry if you want or sideline its political force as happend to the Real Templars, but it seems many here just want to let the mages run wild. I would support the chantry lossing its power but only if a force that could rien in "bad mages" was set up, and just like bad Cops in the Real world all to often the good ones won't turn on "one of the boys."

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 15 février 2011 - 05:49 .


#79
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Glorfindel709 wrote...

*grabs Staff and murder-knife* Let's do this.

Maleficar unite!


Stupid maleficar! You make me look bad! **brings out a mask** BOOGA BOOGA BOOGA!!!!!!

#80
Face of Evil

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And how, pray tell, are we going to abolish the Chantry?



Andrasteism is the dominant religion of Thedas. Never mind getting rid of the templars; burn down a single Chantry and you would be facing a massive public outcry. Think torches and pitchforks and you get the idea. You can't tell people what they can or can't believe or they'll rebel.



The only way of suppressing belief in the Maker would be to establish an oppressive state like the Tevinter Imperium. And really, how would that be any better?


I also want to stress that the Chantry does not "rule" Thedas. All governments in Thedas are autonomous from the Chantry. Their sole authority is over the Circle of Magi.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 15 février 2011 - 06:02 .


#81
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Glorfindel709 wrote...



*grabs Staff and murder-knife* Let's do this.



Maleficar unite!




*grabs sword and breast plate* I tried to be merciful!



You will taste the bit of my blade, maleficar!

#82
Albatroz

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Yes, in a dark, cruel, dangerous world let's take away the place that gives a large majority the only comfort they'll ever have in their lives, just because we disagree with the beliefs and for no other good reason! This sounds like an excellent idea that in no possible way could have any negative results!

#83
Hawke92

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You can try to remove them from power but my Hawke will kill everyone that get in his way no matter if he is Templer or Mage !



*grabs sword and breast plate kills Mages and Templers*

Modifié par Hawke92, 15 février 2011 - 06:24 .


#84
ReallyRue

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I'd love to leave the Chantry as a tiny cult, little better than those lunatic dragon-worshippers in Origins. Grand Cleric will get a taste of force mage powers!

Would be best if they could just be left as some charity organisation instead of a controlling religion.

Should keep some templars though (or their fighting techniques, at least), so there's some non-mages capable of dealing with the bad mages.

Meh, one way or another, I approve of wanton violence. Posted Image

Modifié par ReallyRue, 15 février 2011 - 06:31 .


#85
panamakira

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Agreed! Let's join the revolucion!:devil:

#86
slumlord722

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I really really ree-e-e-eally hope that if the option to free the mages from the rule of the Chantry exists, it creates a horrible ending with abominations running rampant just to show how stupid most of this "free people who can become walking fountains of death and terror" claptrap is.

#87
GreyArea

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ErichHartmann wrote...

Destroy the Chantry and you create a power vacuum for a more oppressive organization.


I don't fear your power vacuums. Chantry is an evil organisation and must be destroyed. Feralden is better without chantry.

#88
Albatroz

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slumlord722 wrote...

I really really ree-e-e-eally hope that if the option to free the mages from the rule of the Chantry exists, it creates a horrible ending with abominations running rampant just to show how stupid most of this "free people who can become walking fountains of death and terror" claptrap is.


I would of thought the Broken Circle was enough for people to realize that mages are a serious potential threat, and that without the Circle and the Chantry that incident could of gone so much worse than it did. And before people type it, I know they'll be thinking, "Uldred only became a blood mage and an abomination because he was being oppressed!' OK, I'll give that to them, but even if that incident was averted, it's 100% guaranteed that something like that would happen eventually and if it happened outside the Circle Tower things would've gone to heck in a handbasket reall fast. The Chantry provides a genuine service to Thedas in the form of the Templars and the Circle. Sure, it may be a morally grey service, but what isn't in Dragon Age?

#89
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The RustMonster wrote...

slumlord722 wrote...

I really really ree-e-e-eally hope that if the option to free the mages from the rule of the Chantry exists, it creates a horrible ending with abominations running rampant just to show how stupid most of this "free people who can become walking fountains of death and terror" claptrap is.


I would of thought the Broken Circle was enough for people to realize that mages are a serious potential threat, and that without the Circle and the Chantry that incident could of gone so much worse than it did. And before people type it, I know they'll be thinking, "Uldred only became a blood mage and an abomination because he was being oppressed!' OK, I'll give that to them, but even if that incident was averted, it's 100% guaranteed that something like that would happen eventually and if it happened outside the Circle Tower things would've gone to heck in a handbasket reall fast. The Chantry provides a genuine service to Thedas in the form of the Templars and the Circle. Sure, it may be a morally grey service, but what isn't in Dragon Age?


The Circle of Magi is a good thing to have but it doesn't need the Chantry to have authority over them. Mages can be trained to handle any abomination and maleficar that threaten the outside world but were not given enough training due to the Chantry fearing they'll be too powerful to control. The Broken Circle had also proved that Templars couldn't even handle the situation and had to resort to completey wiping out the circle entirely with no regard to any of the surviving mages and that are still within.

Modifié par Burayan_Koga, 15 février 2011 - 07:07 .


#90
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Personally I think the chantry should be used to overthrow the qun before being toppled itself, it's not safe to topple the chantry first.

#91
GreyArea

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KenKenpachi wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...

Then we'll take them out too. To invoke Godwins Law a little early here, when Hitler and the ****s were taken out of power Nega-Hitler and the Super ****s didn't rise up to replace them.

 
Err Cold War? Whole of Eastern Europe and Eastern Germany under control of the USSR, Threat of global atomic war  daily till the 1980's, And well a bit of people did die at the hands of the Soviet Liberators. So yes a New Hitler did not rise up, someone else did his name was Stalin. Reminds me of a Humorous qoute "World War Two was really a Race between Stalin and Hitler to see who could kill more Russians. Stalin Won." And lets not forget the 60's all the trouble over Cuba, "Broken Arrows". Or the Fact that the Germans DID resist for some time after the war till the Allies and Soviets adopted **** tactics in dealing with the werewolves. Also given Soviet dominace it set up a dangerous Chess game that makes todays concerns and politics look like checkers.

So your right no new Hitler, the best he managed was to threaten Europe, jews, and Moscow. 

I really don't understand the hate for the Chantry here, sure they treat mages baddly and I mean that term moderatly, I've seen no outward abuse of power by the chantry no more than some modern religious institutions whoes black marks were not possible without government support. A prophate can yell all he wants at another group and indeed some will fallow them, but not to a great extent.

Modern Islamist extreamist are proof of that. But if you look at the Crusades well national goverments give the same fanatics more firepower. So is the Chantry really that bad? More so than anything else? Or would you like to live next to someone who without training could set your hair on fire for making fun of them? Maybe the Chantry is not needed but undisputeablly is the fact SOME oversight is needed. As a close example as possible lets look at the FBI in the 50's they pretty much arrested and made anyone vanish that they wanted gone, those people had more power than me or you and are equal in terms to the mages of Dragon age.

Sure they could not set you on fire, but no one would ever find your body had you been spotted as a Communist. Can any of us here make anyone vanish for political views with no backlash? Eventually the FBI Finally had oversight for better or worse based on your views and it still is a powerful orginization. So though you may not agree with the chantry it should not be taken with a grain of salt that the mages can do it themselves. The KGB for another example was an orginization that policed its self and had a seat on the Soviet Government, and listen to no one, even a General of the Army was not beyond being shot in some basement. Russia's Modern FSB operates under Goverment oversight and though many as we call them in the West Civil Abuses happen, you don't see massed deportations to Siberia or thousands of people dying at any given time.

In short you may hate the Chantry but what makes you think the mages could hold power in there own hands and not have bad repercussions. Its like Jedi and Sith, but keep in mind pretty much ALL sith came from the Jedi ranks. All I'm saying is sure tear down the Chantry if you want or sideline its political force as happend to the Real Templars, but it seems many here just want to let the mages run wild. I would support the chantry lossing its power but only if a force that could rien in "bad mages" was set up, and just like bad Cops in the Real world all to often the good ones won't turn on "one of the boys."


You spend all that time writing word after word and still did not understand that mages are people and not some kind of shared mind acting as one unit.

Lets say for your argument's sake that 1% of mages want to destroy the world. Can they do it? No. They don't have tons of nuclear weapons.

#92
AtreiyaN7

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I'm all in favor of overthrowing our oppressors!

#93
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GreyArea wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

Destroy the Chantry and you create a power vacuum for a more oppressive organization.


I don't fear your power vacuums. Chantry is an evil organisation and must be destroyed. Feralden is better without chantry.

because they'd all be better off under the Qun, right? :devil:

#94
GreyArea

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slumlord722 wrote...

I really really ree-e-e-eally hope that if the option to free the mages from the rule of the Chantry exists, it creates a horrible ending with abominations running rampant just to show how stupid most of this "free people who can become walking fountains of death and terror" claptrap is.


And what would that prove? If I am a game designer I can do whatever stupid endings. The same goes with other game designers, and their endings prove nothing.

#95
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I agree the Chantry abuses power for their own views on 'what the world is, or should be like'. They oppress those who are different and fear governs this oppression. The Chantry needs to change its attitude and put an end to their exclusiveness and extreme paranoia. If in Dragon Age 2 the option of bringing to Chantry down is there I will most likely choose that than add to their already extreme power.

#96
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bobobo878 wrote...

GreyArea wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

Destroy the Chantry and you create a power vacuum for a more oppressive organization.


I don't fear your power vacuums. Chantry is an evil organisation and must be destroyed. Feralden is better without chantry.

because they'd all be better off under the Qun, right? :devil:


So are you saying chantry better slay innocent people because if they don't do it Qun come and do it?

#97
Albatroz

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Burayan_Koga wrote...

The RustMonster wrote...

slumlord722 wrote...

I really really ree-e-e-eally hope that if the option to free the mages from the rule of the Chantry exists, it creates a horrible ending with abominations running rampant just to show how stupid most of this "free people who can become walking fountains of death and terror" claptrap is.


I would of thought the Broken Circle was enough for people to realize that mages are a serious potential threat, and that without the Circle and the Chantry that incident could of gone so much worse than it did. And before people type it, I know they'll be thinking, "Uldred only became a blood mage and an abomination because he was being oppressed!' OK, I'll give that to them, but even if that incident was averted, it's 100% guaranteed that something like that would happen eventually and if it happened outside the Circle Tower things would've gone to heck in a handbasket reall fast. The Chantry provides a genuine service to Thedas in the form of the Templars and the Circle. Sure, it may be a morally grey service, but what isn't in Dragon Age?


The Circle of Magi is a good thing to have but it doesn't need the Chantry to have authority over them. Mages can be trained to handle any abomination and maleficar that threaten the outside world but were not given enough training due to the Chantry fearing they'll be too powerful to control. The Broken Circle had also proved that Templars couldn't even handle the situation and had to resort to completey wiping out the circle entirely with no regard to any of the surviving mages and that are still within.


We saw how well the mages fared against the abominations in Broken Circle. Given enough time Uldred would have corrupted them all. And while the Templars may have had a drastic solution, it's one they knew would work. Mages are powerful, but it's a double edged sword that they have. Mages are far too dangerous to just have the freedom to go anywhere and do anything. They should have freedom, but it needs to be regulated like it is in Dragon Age. We know that mages who have proven themselves responsible are able to go out of the Tower, look at Wynne, Finn, and the botanist lady from Awakening. But if they were all free, things would go real bad real quick.

#98
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GreyArea wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

GreyArea wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

Destroy the Chantry and you create a power vacuum for a more oppressive organization.


I don't fear your power vacuums. Chantry is an evil organisation and must be destroyed. Feralden is better without chantry.

because they'd all be better off under the Qun, right? :devil:


So are you saying chantry better slay innocent people because if they don't do it Qun come and do it?

Yes, and far more.  When the Qunari conquer a new country, they send anyone who won't convert to soviet-style work camps to be worked to death.  That kinda sucks brah.

#99
Taleroth

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bobobo878 wrote...

So are you saying chantry better slay innocent people because if they don't do it Qun come and do it?

Yes, and far more.  When the Qunari conquer a new country, they send anyone who won't convert to soviet-style work camps to be worked to death.  That kinda sucks brah.

So it's the Dales all over again?

Modifié par Taleroth, 15 février 2011 - 07:23 .


#100
GreyArea

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The RustMonster wrote...

Burayan_Koga wrote...

The RustMonster wrote...

slumlord722 wrote...

I really really ree-e-e-eally hope that if the option to free the mages from the rule of the Chantry exists, it creates a horrible ending with abominations running rampant just to show how stupid most of this "free people who can become walking fountains of death and terror" claptrap is.


I would of thought the Broken Circle was enough for people to realize that mages are a serious potential threat, and that without the Circle and the Chantry that incident could of gone so much worse than it did. And before people type it, I know they'll be thinking, "Uldred only became a blood mage and an abomination because he was being oppressed!' OK, I'll give that to them, but even if that incident was averted, it's 100% guaranteed that something like that would happen eventually and if it happened outside the Circle Tower things would've gone to heck in a handbasket reall fast. The Chantry provides a genuine service to Thedas in the form of the Templars and the Circle. Sure, it may be a morally grey service, but what isn't in Dragon Age?


The Circle of Magi is a good thing to have but it doesn't need the Chantry to have authority over them. Mages can be trained to handle any abomination and maleficar that threaten the outside world but were not given enough training due to the Chantry fearing they'll be too powerful to control. The Broken Circle had also proved that Templars couldn't even handle the situation and had to resort to completey wiping out the circle entirely with no regard to any of the surviving mages and that are still within.


We saw how well the mages fared against the abominations in Broken Circle. Given enough time Uldred would have corrupted them all. And while the Templars may have had a drastic solution, it's one they knew would work. Mages are powerful, but it's a double edged sword that they have. Mages are far too dangerous to just have the freedom to go anywhere and do anything. They should have freedom, but it needs to be regulated like it is in Dragon Age. We know that mages who have proven themselves responsible are able to go out of the Tower, look at Wynne, Finn, and the botanist lady from Awakening. But if they were all free, things would go real bad real quick.


No. Those mages who would begin to do bad things would just be slain. And it would be the right way to do it. There should be a crime done before you slay someone.