132 réponses à ce sujet

[Rivercurse]

Hackett's much more likely to have an involvement with Cerberus than Anderson is.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Assertion that Anderson is with Cerberus is definitely false. It stems from that Shadow Broker's vid-piece, but all that vid piece really means is that TIM is spreading his "rumors" about Shepard, in preparation for the "Operation High Noon" on Horizon.

That's an interesting way of looking at. Since watching that vid-piece, I've had the impression that Anderson himself is involved with Cerberus in some way.

Assertion that Hackett ordered operations against Cerberus is simply a "lolwhut?"

But that doesn't mean Hackett has zero ties with Cerberus. I wouldn't be surprised if he's dealt with them at some point, therefore establishing a relationship between him and Cerberus, regardless of what kind of relationship. Actually, this is what I believe is the other side of the argument here; in addition to trusting Shepard, Hackett might also have something to do with Cerberus.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 16 février 2011 - 02:28 .

[TuringPoint]

Hackett trusts Shepard. Or else, Hackett knows trying to capture Shepard would be a mistake

[omgodzilla]

They would lose a ridiculously high number of men if they tried to capture Shepard.

[jbblue05]

If the Alliance knew Shepard woulbd be on Horizon. Why just send the VS why not send an envoy of Allliance officials to interrogate Shepard and formally welcome Shepard back into the Alliance.



But the Alliance doesn't, this makes me think the Alliance approves of you working with Cerberus. The Alliance on multiple occassions could've tried to apprehend Shepard but they make no effort.to stop Shepard from working with "terrorists."

[Zulu_DFA]

Don't forget the "Normandy Crash Site" assignment.



Adm. Hackett sends Shepard a PM, and (unlike Anderson) he's got no doubts at all that Shepard is alive and kicking again. He just packs an... request at him, as if nothing happened.

[Nightwriter]

I love Hackett. Hackett is awesome. I would have made Hackett Councilor if they'd let me.

I would've said, "That man who I've never seen, with the voice! That one! I want that one!"

[Destroy Raiden_]

Because shep did a lot for the Alliance in ME he didn't have to do any request Hackett made during that time but chances are 90% of the players did something for him if not at least 2 missions. He obviously respects him/her and sense he is in a position to do some protection of the hero of the citadel then he'll at least give it a go. I'm wondering if in 3 if he'll get replaced or forced in some way to change that request denied to a request granted.

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Don't forget the "Normandy Crash Site" assignment.

Adm. Hackett sends Shepard a PM, and (unlike Anderson) he's got no doubts at all that Shepard is alive and kicking again. He just packs an... request at him, as if nothing happened.

I didn't think anyone doubts Shepard is alive again, even when everyone should doubt it. The only one who comes close to doubting is Aria in checking to make sure he isn't an imposter. Speaking of which, does everybody happen to have Shep's DNA profile on record 'just in case?" Even if they got it from the SB, isn't that a strange thing to get?

Lol I guess Aria should be added to the conspiracy theory too?

[Casuist]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Why would he? Clearly he isn't "whatever it takes" kind of guy, so he wouldn't need to know about the "darker" side the Alliance has to it.

In that case, you're pushing any affiliation outside the realm of any semi-official standing, as Anderson is clearly privy to interior workings of the Alliance in both games. If any continuing relationship relies upon keeping secrets from some of the highest ranking officers in the organization, then it is not part of the alliance- it is a situation where cerberus has sympathizers/infiltrators within the alliance (as is obviously the case).

Casuist wrote...

2) The Shadow Broker probably would have known about it.

It looks like he was always just one step away from knowing it.

How convenient.

Casuist wrote...

3) Hackett's actions concerning the Toombs mission make little sense.

Which part of them? Indicating that the Alliance scientists are targetted because they worked on a "classified project" on Akuze coinciding with the Thresher Maw attack? Or his promise to put Dr. Wayne on trial (if you save him), which is strangely not on the news in ME2 (if you kill Toombs)?

If Hackett were interested in keeping Cerberus' involvement in Akuze a secret, siccing Shepard on the matter with the forewarning that the scinetists were linked to that incident is the LAST thing he should do. This is the strongest evidence in either game concerning Hackett's allegiance, and it is fairly straightforward. - Hackett as Cerberus would have meant Toombs and Cerberus never see the light of day.

[Bailyn242]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

It's a complicated idea, with various variables scattered throughout. It leaves me thinking that Hackett may have some sort of long-term plan for Shepard, whatever that may be.

I hope he gets a bigger part in ME3 which he should because fleet actions are going to be more of a focus I think.

I don't really buy the Cerberus links because it would make more sense in that case to have the Marines go in heavy handed and destroy the evidence. Rather than Shepard who is more like a scalple than a sledgehammer.

I suspect that fleet actions will be handled like the Battle of the Citadel. Shepard's ground team will be in action while the Fleet battles in orbit. There is just no engine in ME3 to do starship combat and the mini games created so far are far too simplistic to do justice to this.

I suppose they could do something like the approach to the collector base but not much more unless they're going to shoehorn Wing Commander into ME3 somehow.

[AkiKishi]

Bailyn242 wrote...

I suspect that fleet actions will be handled like the Battle of the Citadel. Shepard's ground team will be in action while the Fleet battles in orbit. There is just no engine in ME3 to do starship combat and the mini games created so far are far too simplistic to do justice to this.

I suppose they could do something like the approach to the collector base but not much more unless they're going to shoehorn Wing Commander into ME3 somehow.

They could do it like the SM which is a scripted event too. Although why a commander with no fleet experience would be giving orders is anyones guess.

[wolfsite]

If certain people had there way they could link "Everyone" to Cerberus.

[Zulu_DFA]

Moiaussi wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Don't forget the "Normandy Crash Site" assignment.

Adm. Hackett sends Shepard a PM, and (unlike Anderson) he's got no doubts at all that Shepard is alive and kicking again. He just packs an... request at him, as if nothing happened.

I didn't think anyone doubts Shepard is alive again, even when everyone should doubt it. The only one who comes close to doubting is Aria in checking to make sure he isn't an imposter. Speaking of which, does everybody happen to have Shep's DNA profile on record 'just in case?" Even if they got it from the SB, isn't that a strange thing to get?

Lol I guess Aria should be added to the conspiracy theory too?

Anderson's message to Shepard.

[Pwener2313]

Hackett is with Cerberus. Everyone is involved somehow. There is no escaping us... err... them.

[Zulu_DFA]

Casuist wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Why would he? Clearly he isn't "whatever it takes" kind of guy, so he wouldn't need to know about the "darker" side the Alliance has to it.

In that case, you're pushing any affiliation outside the realm of any semi-official standing, as Anderson is clearly privy to interior workings of the Alliance in both games. If any continuing relationship relies upon keeping secrets from some of the highest ranking officers in the organization, then it is not part of the alliance- it is a situation where cerberus has sympathizers/infiltrators within the alliance (as is obviously the case).

Obviously the case is that you don't realize how many people in the Alliance are above Anderson. As of ME1, his rank is "Captain", that's equivalent of an army Colonel (in ME universe's Marines - Major). There must be hundreds of less famous, but not necessary less influential figures of the same rank. He may be Councillor in your ME2 game, but that's only another reason the Alliance proper would keep secrets from him. The real conspiracy (the cabal knowing about the real Cerberus function) is all above Anderson, just like it was all above Kahoku.

Casuist wrote...

Casuist wrote...

2) The Shadow Broker probably would have known about it.

It looks like he was always just one step away from knowing it.

How convenient.

How sad.

Casuist wrote...

Casuist wrote...

3) Hackett's actions concerning the Toombs mission make little sense.

Which part of them? Indicating that the Alliance scientists are targetted because they worked on a "classified project" on Akuze coinciding with the Thresher Maw attack? Or his promise to put Dr. Wayne on trial (if you save him), which is strangely not on the news in ME2 (if you kill Toombs)?

If Hackett were interested in keeping Cerberus' involvement in Akuze a secret, siccing Shepard on the matter with the forewarning that the scinetists were linked to that incident is the LAST thing he should do. This is the strongest evidence in either game concerning Hackett's allegiance, and it is fairly straightforward. - Hackett as Cerberus would have meant Toombs and Cerberus never see the light of day.

The problem with that is that Hackett "convenietly" pops up only when Shepard is already in the star system where Cerberus-related activities are taking place. Click here for more.

And he definitely was in no hurry to commend you for avenging Kahoku's death.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 février 2011 - 08:43 .

[Raanz]

It's a lead-in to one of the remaining "bridging" dlc packs.

[Pwener2313]

If Hackett had buried the Toombs story then he would have become a target and suspect. Because the project was over, he send Shepard to clean up the mess.



In paranoid land, Shepard is a Reaper, so it's all up in the air until everyone starts pointing fingers in that scene we all know will happen in ME3. Personally, I can't wait for it.



It's gonna be a lol fest. Hackett works for Cererus who is a division of the Alliance. Anderson is Shepard godfather. TIM is Shepard's ded. Tali is a man. ect....

[Casuist]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Obviously the case is that you don't realize how many people in the Alliance are above Anderson. As of ME1, his rank is "Captain", that's equivalent of an army Colonel (in ME universe's Marines - Major). There must be hundreds of less famous, but not necessary less influential figures of the same rank. He may be Councillor in your ME2 game, but that's only another reason the Alliance proper would keep secrets from him. The real conspiracy (the cabal knowing about the real Cerberus function) is all above Anderson, just like it was all above Kahoku.

Again, as of ME1, decorated special forces operative assigned to a mission of great significance to humanity, and is one of three individuals given influence on choosing the first human spectre. His response off the cuff on Banes speaks to a considerable knowledge of secret alliance affairs.

....and if you are relying upon the existence of a secret alliance shadow government for which you have no-universe evidence to make your case- feel free to enjoy your conspiracy theories. Shorter Zulu: "a wizard will make it happen."

How sad.

...so you acknowledge that given the shadow broker's infiltration of Cerberus and the alliance he probably would have been aware of any such persistent affiliation between the organizations (or, at least, you are unable to invent a credible argument to the contrary).  Not really "sad" ... more "matter of fact." We take the information that we are given by the game and choose the most rtional explanation given that.  

The problem with that is that Hackett "convenietly" pops up only when Shepard is already in the star system where Cerberus-related activities are taking place. Click here for more.

This is simply inaccurate. The star system trigger is one of multiple triggers for that mission... and the reason for the trigger is a game device, not necessarily related to the plot. 

[meh_cd]

As long as Hackett shows Shep the knife trick in ME3 he is a-ok in my book.

[Zulu_DFA]

Casuist wrote...

How sad.

...so you acknowledge that given the shadow broker's infiltration of Cerberus and the alliance he probably would have been aware of any such persistent affiliation between the organizations (or, at least, you are unable to invent a credible argument to the contrary).  Not really "sad" ... more "matter of fact." We take the information that we are given by the game and choose the most rtional explanation given that.  

I acknowledge that the Shadow Broker's story is sad. He infitrated both Cerberus and the Alliance, and was about a month away from learning that Admiral Hackett was treating Cerberus as an intellignce agency for the Alliance... and yet he didn't see Cerberus coming at him.

[Casuist]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Casuist wrote...

How sad.

...so you acknowledge that given the shadow broker's infiltration of Cerberus and the alliance he probably would have been aware of any such persistent affiliation between the organizations (or, at least, you are unable to invent a credible argument to the contrary).  Not really "sad" ... more "matter of fact." We take the information that we are given by the game and choose the most rtional explanation given that.  

I acknowledge that the Shadow Broker's story is sad. He infitrated both Cerberus and the Alliance, and was about a month away from learning that Admiral Hackett was treating Cerberus as an intellignce agency for the Alliance... and yet he didn't see Cerberus coming at him.

Why stop there? He was two months away from discovering the terrible secret behind tic-tacs, three months from the fountain of youth, five from El Dorado and no more han a year away from the question of life, the universe and  everything.

[Zulu_DFA]

Casuist wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Casuist wrote...

How sad.

...so you acknowledge that given the shadow broker's infiltration of Cerberus and the alliance he probably would have been aware of any such persistent affiliation between the organizations (or, at least, you are unable to invent a credible argument to the contrary).  Not really "sad" ... more "matter of fact." We take the information that we are given by the game and choose the most rtional explanation given that.  

I acknowledge that the Shadow Broker's story is sad. He infitrated both Cerberus and the Alliance, and was about a month away from learning that Admiral Hackett was treating Cerberus as an intellignce agency for the Alliance... and yet he didn't see Cerberus coming at him.

Why stop there? He was two months away from discovering the terrible secret behind tic-tacs, three months from the fountain of youth, five from El Dorado and no more han a year away from the question of life, the universe and  everything.

That may be, but like most Cerberus haters, you're missing the point entirely. The point being: Cerberus got to the Shadow Broker first, and that could only mean that the Shadow Broker was not so good at spy games as Cerberus was. Which makes your assertion that "the Shadow Broker would know" something about Cerberus a little bit frail.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 février 2011 - 11:34 .

[Bailyn242]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Casuist wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Casuist wrote...

How sad.

...so you acknowledge that given the shadow broker's infiltration of Cerberus and the alliance he probably would have been aware of any such persistent affiliation between the organizations (or, at least, you are unable to invent a credible argument to the contrary).  Not really "sad" ... more "matter of fact." We take the information that we are given by the game and choose the most rtional explanation given that.  

I acknowledge that the Shadow Broker's story is sad. He infitrated both Cerberus and the Alliance, and was about a month away from learning that Admiral Hackett was treating Cerberus as an intellignce agency for the Alliance... and yet he didn't see Cerberus coming at him.

Why stop there? He was two months away from discovering the terrible secret behind tic-tacs, three months from the fountain of youth, five from El Dorado and no more han a year away from the question of life, the universe and  everything.

That may be, but like most Cerberus haters, you're missing the point entirely. The point being: Cerberus got to the Shadow Broker first, and that could only mean that the Shadow Broker was not so good at spy games as Cerberus was. Which makes your assertion that "the Shadow Broker would know" something about Cerberus a little bit frail.

It could simply be that while the Shadow Broker has moles in Cerberus he doesn't in the communications loop between TIM and Shepard. Therefore he has no idea that TIM gave Shep the info for Liara.

Cerberus lovers really want Hackett to be on the take and Cerberus haters don't. Let the theories fly but I'm sure the writers will ****** someone off along the way.

[Casuist]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Casuist wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Casuist wrote...

How sad.

...so you acknowledge that given the shadow broker's infiltration of Cerberus and the alliance he probably would have been aware of any such persistent affiliation between the organizations (or, at least, you are unable to invent a credible argument to the contrary).  Not really "sad" ... more "matter of fact." We take the information that we are given by the game and choose the most rtional explanation given that.  

I acknowledge that the Shadow Broker's story is sad. He infitrated both Cerberus and the Alliance, and was about a month away from learning that Admiral Hackett was treating Cerberus as an intellignce agency for the Alliance... and yet he didn't see Cerberus coming at him.

Why stop there? He was two months away from discovering the terrible secret behind tic-tacs, three months from the fountain of youth, five from El Dorado and no more han a year away from the question of life, the universe and  everything.

That may be, but like most Cerberus haters, you're missing the point entirely. The point being: Cerberus got to the Shadow Broker first, and that can only mean that the Shadow Broker was not so good at spy games as Cerberus. Which makes your assertion that the Shadow Broker "would know" something about Cerberus a little bit frail.

In point of fact, Cerberus required Liara's intervention to make the final link.

In another point of fact... your assertion has nothing whatsoever to do with the matter at hand. A continuing link between Cerberus and the alliance would manifest in multiple personnel shifts/communications. All it takes is one to make the link. And it is, after all, the Shadow Broker's information in ME1 that informs us that Cerberus' military wing ever had any connection at all to the alliance (which is pretty blatant evidence that he'd infiltrated to a substantial extent and was aware of events related to that connection being severed).

What Cerberus knew or did not know does not inform what the Shadow Broker knew.