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Why Did Admiral Hackett "Deny the Request"?


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#126
Pro_Consul

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Arijharn wrote...

Casuist wrote...
...which has more to do with c-sec's complacency than Harkin's subtlety. Not paticularly relevant, besides.

If you can't see (or refuse to see) the actual relevance to this, then perhaps you really are as slow as what your proclivity on using eclipses seems to suggest. Harkin is a bad egg who has been illegally co-opting into C-Sec's security network. If C-Sec is 'complacent' in removing this, then why isn't the Alliance in the form of it's most senior military officer (that we know of at least) also 'complacent' in the Cerberus connection?


Before you jump on the dude, try to make sure you understand what he is saying. You are confusing the word complacent for the word complicit. As Casuist used complacent, it means to be negligent of their duties and/or with no sense of urgency about them. You, however, seem to have taken it to mean "in cooperation with", as if he was saying that C-Sec was working FOR Fade. If you are saying that Hackett is guilty of complacency, then you are just arguing that he is not bothering to do his job, but that seems completely counter to what you were saying before and since this bit here, so I assume that means you didn't understand what the word means. Just thought I'd clarify, there, just in case.

Arijharn wrote...
Seriously though, If we are to assume that Cerberus has the highest amount of penetration within the Alliance military, then it makes more sense for it to be Hackett than say one of his aides, because Hackett would be cleared to see all this as part of his duties, and so him opening top secret documents for example, wouldn't illicit the same sort of eyebrow raise as say an aide would.


Basically you are saying that if we assume that Hackett is guilty, then that means it is most likely that Hackett is guilty. Starting with an assumption that in itself denies the possibility that any other opinion than yours can be correct is about the weakest form of rhetorical dishonesty there is. "If we are to assume that Cerberus has the highest amount of penetration"?? Why do we need to begin with any such assumption? How about if we assume that Cerberus has an unknown level of penetration within Alliance command? That at least is an assumption that can be backed up, while your assumption cannot. Also, even if we were to assume that Alliance command is penetrated, it does not necessarily follow that Hackett is the most sensible  suspect to be the traitor, as you allege. Rather Hackett is merely the most desirable  person from Cerberus' standpoint, i.e. the one they might most wish to have. That in no way makes Hackett any more likely to be guilty of working for them, though. After all, I am sure Cerberus would be even more interested in turning Councilor Anderson into a mole for them, but that does not mean that Anderson is therefore more likely to actually BE a mole for them.

Oh, BTW, the word you were looking for in that last sentence was elicit, not illicit. "Illicit" means not legitimate, as in "he had illicit deals with Fade that could have sent him to jail if discovered" . Elicit means to evoke, as in "his attempts to hide his income were bound to elicit suspicion as soon as his accounts were audited".  This is not intended as an insult, if English is not your first language. I know that English is full of such tricky pitfalls that make it an enormous pain for non-native speakers to have to deal with, and I am just trying to avoid confusion resulting from such misunderstandings. OTOH, if English is your first language, then I suggest you make a greater effort to avoid using words whose meanings you don't know, or keep a dictionary handy.

Modifié par Pro_Consul, 18 février 2011 - 02:32 .


#127
IBPROFEN

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Well how about this:

Maybe the request to Hackett was sent before Horizon, and the reply was sent after the report from the VS. After all Anderson did say it came from higher up, if you talked to him after mission.

Cause I don't remeber seeing a date or time on the letter.

#128
Zulu_DFA

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Pro_Consul wrote...

Hackett any more likely to be guilty of working for them, though.

Hackett doesn't work for Cerberus. Cerberus works for Hackett. Just like TIM started by working for Gen. Williams back in the day, he continues to extend the reach of the Alliance into all kinds of twilight zones. That simple.

#129
Bailyn242

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Pro_Consul wrote...

Hackett any more likely to be guilty of working for them, though.

Hackett doesn't work for Cerberus. Cerberus works for Hackett. Just like TIM started by working for Gen. Williams back in the day, he continues to extend the reach of the Alliance into all kinds of twilight zones. That simple.


You're working really hard at convincing yourself that this is true to justify your belief that Anderson is a traitor.:P

#130
Arijharn

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Sigh...

Pro_Consul wrote...
Before you jump on the dude, try to make sure you understand what he is saying. You are confusing the word complacent for the word complicit. As Casuist used complacent, it means to be negligent of their duties and/or with no sense of urgency about them. You, however, seem to have taken it to mean "in cooperation with", as if he was saying that C-Sec was working FOR Fade. If you are saying that Hackett is guilty of complacency, then you are just arguing that he is not bothering to do his job, but that seems completely counter to what you were saying before and since this bit here, so I assume that means you didn't understand what the word means. Just thought I'd clarify, there, just in case.

You're right of course (and I do know what the words mean, although feel free not to believe me if you so wish), but I meant both. Apologies, for me being a moron though.

If he's complicit, then he could be complacent... as in 'trying not to show his hand.' Lets just say that he might not investigate the claims with as much due care as one would expect. "Request Denied" to me at least, doesn't ring true for an Admiral who might be serious about an 'avowed enemy.'

If they are worried about Shephard because he/she was (or still is) a Spectre, then they could just quietly 'snatch' our hero, even if they just stated they wanted a chat and were worried about Shephard's connections.

"Request Denied" to me sounds that it could be either Hackett being a dismissive bastard, a magnificient bastard, or a 'complicit' bastard.

Pro_Consul wrote...
Basically you are saying that if we assume that Hackett is guilty, then that means it is most likely that Hackett is guilty. Starting with an assumption that in itself denies the possibility that any other opinion than yours can be correct is about the weakest form of rhetorical dishonesty there is.

What? All I ever stated that because of the (keyword) circumstancial evidence we have about Hackett in the past it seems quite plausible (to me) that he is in bed with Cerberus. I formulated my hypothesis based from:
- Lord Darius (personality aspect of Hackett)
- Alliance scientists from the Corporal Toombs scenario (could go either way in regards to Hackett's knowledge about who these scientists are)
- 'Request Denied' dismissal to a Major's very real concerns (which I think is pretty close to being just plain negligent, if not actually so)
I never said that this is definitive proof, as in, proof that is established beyond reasonable doubt -- but merely a plausible hypothesis based off events as I see it that paint Hackett in a rather confusing light.

Pro_Consul wrote...
"If we are to assume that Cerberus has the highest amount of penetration"?? Why do we need to begin with any such assumption? How about if we assume that Cerberus has an unknown level of penetration within Alliance command?

Fine. An unknown but presumed high level penetration based off their successes with:
- SSV Genevia's Element Zero seizure
- Freedom to coerce the Systems Alliance to develop the Normandy SR-1
- Freedom to construct the SR-2 from those blue prints.
- Able to effectively hide their assets from Alliance Intelligence sweeps (presumably leading to the flash point with Anderson). Note; that the Alliance has their successes against Cerberus, but Cerberus is 'usually' able to stay in the lead.

Pro_Consul wrote...
 Also, even if we were to assume that Alliance command is penetrated, it does not necessarily follow that Hackett is the most sensible  suspect to be the traitor, as you allege. Rather Hackett is merely the most desirable  person from Cerberus' standpoint, i.e. the one they might most wish to have.

You are correct, however I formed my opinion based off the fact that
a) He's the most senior person we've met which implies to me at least that he has access to the most amount of intelligence that the Alliance has (of course, filtered for accessibility).
B) His personal ethics are somewhat hazy (Lord Darius)
c) He's senior ranking officer, but it's unlikely that he's at the very top, but to the point where he still might have operational oversight, and is able to act relatively autonomously (filtering key information to Cerberus contact points).

Pro_Consul wrote...
That in no way makes Hackett any more likely to be guilty of working for them, though. After all, I am sure Cerberus would be even more interested in turning Councilor Anderson into a mole for them, but that does not mean that Anderson is therefore more likely to actually BE a mole for them.

I discounted that possibility if only because Anderson is closer to the 'spotlight.' This would be true even if Anderson was an 'Advisor,' because Anderson does not necessarily have the temperment that aligns in Cerberus' (and possibly the Alliance's -- if you subscribe to that theory) interests.

Pro_Consul wrote...
Oh, BTW, the word you were looking for in that last sentence was elicit, not illicit. "Illicit" means not legitimate, as in "he had illicit deals with Fade that could have sent him to jail if discovered" . Elicit means to evoke, as in "his attempts to hide his income were bound to elicit suspicion as soon as his accounts were audited".  This is not intended as an insult, if English is not your first language. I know that English is full of such tricky pitfalls that make it an enormous pain for non-native speakers to have to deal with, and I am just trying to avoid confusion resulting from such misunderstandings. OTOH, if English is your first language, then I suggest you make a greater effort to avoid using words whose meanings you don't know, or keep a dictionary handy.

I think I'll just make sure I drink coffee before I crack my knuckles, start typing, and make myself sound like an idiot -- although I do get this impression that you took great delight in 'dressing me down' and not for reasons that you thought you were educating me, or maybe I'm still in a defensive mode.

EDIT: I removed a word because if I left it in you'd spend another paragraph typing why it is I shouldn't have used it ;)

Modifié par Arijharn, 18 février 2011 - 08:28 .


#131
Pro_Consul

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Arijharn wrote...

I think I'll just make sure I drink coffee before I crack my knuckles, start typing, and make myself sound like an idiot -- although I do get this impression that you took great delight in 'dressing me down' and not for reasons that you thought you were educating me, or maybe I'm still in a defensive mode.

EDIT: I removed a word because if I left it in you'd spend another paragraph typing why it is I shouldn't have used it ;)


I generally never mention it when people in the forum misuse words. The only reason I brought it up here is because the choice of those particular words completely changed the meaning of what you appeared to be saying. If I am going to argue against your position, I want it clear precisely what position I am arguing against. By clarifying the words as I thought you meant to use them, I was giving you an opportunity to tell me if I was barking up the wrong tree by misunderstanding what you intended to say. And as it happened I was one for two there; you meant to use one of those words and you didn't mean to use the other.

#132
Eterna1Soldier

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Hackett is the coolest NPC we never meet.

#133
redplague

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Because Hackett is gansta and he's Sheperd's bro.