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[HTTP 404]

philbo1965uk wrote...

Seriously...people are so disenfranchised by the direction taken with DA2 as to not really give a flying...about Anders !

Those that are seem not to care if the game had been cut to 5 hours and turned into a fps...they blindly kissdevbutt without so much as a whimper.

Anders inclusion is terrible writing and if you notice the very same people kissing butt about the wardens non participation....are browbeating those on complaining about Anders....ironic

I learned something on these forums: you are either an ass-kisser or a whiner

[Soul Cool]

HTTP 404 wrote...
I learned something on these forums: you are either an ass-kisser or a whiner

But only when the poster doesn't like the thread/you/other people in the thread.

At other times, you're 'great people', 'pleasant acquaintances', or something similarly gushy.

[HTTP 404]

Soul Cool wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...
I learned something on these forums: you are either an ass-kisser or a whiner

But only when the poster doesn't like the thread/you/other people in the thread.

At other times, you're 'great people', 'pleasant acquaintances', or something similarly gushy.

ah yes the rare gems of a thread

[nightcobra]

i hear the epilogues were relayed to us by Bodahn.


that's what i've heard on the road anyhow, take it for what it is. XD

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 16 février 2011 - 09:38 .

[Khayness]

No they aren't. The culprit is Varric.

Framed Narrative, remember?

[nightcobra]

Khayness wrote...

No they aren't. The culprit is Varric.
Framed Narrative, remember?

i was talking about the warden's epilogues, not hawke's.

[Johnny Shepard]

I agree. I do not understand why some fans whant to break down the story. Does it make anyone feel bether to pick at the story?



The only way for them to make it so that nothing ever gets hand-waved is to:



1. Not give us any epilogue or tell us what happens to the chatacters later.

2. Never kill any main characters.

3. Less free choices.



Now tell me, would you really whant a Dragon Age game to be like that?

[Pabasa]

As previously mentioned, the only problem was if Anders actually was said to have died in the epilogue. Honestly I don't mind if Bioware handwaved this, but since I made one save where I did kill off Anders, I'd be happy if DA2 acknowledged this, by dialogue or something. Probably instead of a living Anders making a deal with Justice, he'd just be possesed after his death like Wynne.



Doesn't need to have a WTF HE DIED moment, just a few extra lines of dialogue that acknowledges the epilogue, but switched anyway, instead of just saying that he never died.

[Amfortas]

Johnny Shepard wrote...

The only way for them to make it so that nothing ever gets hand-waved is to:

1. Not give us any epilogue or tell us what happens to the chatacters later.
2. Never kill any main characters.
3. Less free choices.

Now tell me, would you really whant a Dragon Age game to be like that?

there is another way. Make it a standalone game. You see the consequences for your actions at the end of the game and that's all. DAII, new story, new characters, there's no need to import saves and contratict the player's decisions. And it's even easier for Bioware.

[AtreiyaN7]

philbo1965uk wrote...

Seriously...people are so disenfranchised by the direction taken with DA2 as to not really give a flying...about Anders !

Those that are seem not to care if the game had been cut to 5 hours and turned into a fps...they blindly kissdevbutt without so much as a whimper.

Anders inclusion is terrible writing and if you notice the very same people kissing butt about the wardens non participation....are browbeating those on complaining about Anders....ironic

Hyperbole, thy name is philbo!

[Johnny Shepard]

Amfortas wrote...

Johnny Shepard wrote...

The only way for them to make it so that nothing ever gets hand-waved is to:

1. Not give us any epilogue or tell us what happens to the chatacters later.
2. Never kill any main characters.
3. Less free choices.

Now tell me, would you really whant a Dragon Age game to be like that?

there is another way. Make it a standalone game. You see the consequences for your actions at the end of the game and that's all. DAII, new story, new characters, there's no need to import saves and contratict the player's decisions. And it's even easier for Bioware.

Oh, how fun that would be. Everything you do is pointless and in future games you get no info about what happens later. They could just as well have made a new world and take another 8 years making the next game called "Spirituel secuel to Dragon Age".<_<

[Khayness]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

i was talking about the warden's epilogues, not hawke's.

Unless you are the OP, my comment isn't pointed at you.

[otaku4ever]

There can be MANY spiritis of Justice, just the same way there can be MANY pride/soth/desire demons.

/thread.

[Chibi Elemental]

Johnny Shepard wrote...

Amfortas wrote...

Johnny Shepard wrote...

The only way for them to make it so that nothing ever gets hand-waved is to:

1. Not give us any epilogue or tell us what happens to the chatacters later.
2. Never kill any main characters.
3. Less free choices.

Now tell me, would you really whant a Dragon Age game to be like that?

there is another way. Make it a standalone game. You see the consequences for your actions at the end of the game and that's all. DAII, new story, new characters, there's no need to import saves and contratict the player's decisions. And it's even easier for Bioware.

Oh, how fun that would be. Everything you do is pointless and in future games you get no info about what happens later. They could just as well have made a new world and take another 8 years making the next game called "Spirituel secuel to Dragon Age".<_<

That was sort of the point of his post to say, look its not perfect but atleast we have what we have.

As to the whole plot holes and nods not been taken, whats to say they wont make a nod to say that anders "died" Maybe he faked his own death, maybe other members of the wardens conspired against him. All we know at this point after reading the short stories is this, he eventually joined the wardens, he met justice, and is some how still alive because of this. Hell there may even be a nod in the story somewhere that he has already died several times, or even that this is not the Anders we have been looking for.

So really wait till the game comes out and see if there is a refrence to say hey we know you played our game have a little something for that.

[Dan_cw]

Do I get a cookie (or pizza preferably) for reading through 11 pages...?

Anyway, I'm not sure this has been addressed due to 'only' reading 11 pages, but David Gaider did say that even rumours etc. have some element of truth.

Also, as an aside, if people went to this expecting previous choices to affect many things, then well... Firstly, the game is set in a different part of Thedas. Your old character isn't present either. So, the most people should have hoped for are codex entries based on previous choices made and some dialog here and there referencing past events. Secondly, it's probably not out of the realm of possibility to expect one or two big choices have an effect on the game outside of just a few dialog changes. But we'll have to wait and see regarding that, it certainly won't be many.

Now then, from a gaming standpoint, the previous game was long and that's discounting DLC and the expansion. It's too much work to make everything be referenced going into the sequel. From a writer standpoint, I also imagine it'd be hell trying to account for every little detail. You've got to also remember that the game/world/stories are their baby.

Of course, BioWare could have just opted to not have the import feature at all. It would have certainly saved them less work. So, honestly be glad you have the import feature. Sure though, I do take the point that in the grand scheme of things, choices may not make a great difference outside of references. But really, after how Mass Effect handled the import, it was wise to not expect things to be any different.

Hopefully Mass Effect 3 will be different though with it being the last of the trilogy. And we'll have to wait and see how Dragon Age 2 pans out, to see how 'Hawke brings about a war and changes Thedas', before you can even imagine how the third game will be affected by previous choices. And even after that, you'll need to wait and see what the third game is even about and where it's set.

(I'm hoping though that Dragon Age 2 will make your choices matter in the actual game itself, due to the framed narrative and span of time it covers.)

Edit: The above isn't to say that the problems aren't valid btw. But it is meant to say 'understand how much work is required to make the game react to everything and that the developers also have a story they wish to tell, which may at times interfere with what you want or did in the game.' It's their right after all due to being the creators, but yes, I do acknowledge why it can be frustrating. Also, as TJ mentioned earlier in the thread (seems we share relatively similar views), it's perhaps best to save worrying and complaining until the game releases. You will then know for certain if your worries were unfounded. Right now, it might turn out that you had no reason to get worked up. And again as I always say... it's just a game.

Modifié par Dan_cw, 16 février 2011 - 11:39 .

[Wishpig]

Johnny Shepard wrote...
The only way for them to make it so that nothing ever gets hand-waved is to:

1. Not give us any epilogue or tell us what happens to the chatacters later.
2. Never kill any main characters.
3. Less free choices.

Now tell me, would you really whant a Dragon Age game to be like that?

QFT AGAIN.

With each new bioware game, your companions stories branch out more and more. In DA:O nearly EVERY character could die. Same with Awakening.

Sure it has its drawbacks... mainly making it very difficult to bring them back in any sort of companion role. But I do feel the strengths outwiegh the drawbacks.

[AlexXIV]

Well you can write a book with a story that starts and ends in it. Or you can a write a book and leave many ends open to continue the story in another book. And if you do the latter your second book should not contradict the first or make it obsolete. If you say that you like the choices Bioware gave you can't be indifferent about whether they were real choices or just a dialogue option you click just to be pushed in the direction they want you to go later. Nobody needs choices that don't matter.

I saved Anders from the Templars, broke into a building and killed Templars. That was my choice. But now I learn that I should have handed him to the Templars because for once he would escape anyway, become a Grey Warden anyway and gets possessed by Justice (or a justice spirit) anyway. And I don't need to break into rooms or kill templars at all. They made Morrigan unkillable, I assume to use her in another game. I wonder why, if they can just ressurrect her anyway. Reason is it would be bad storytelling and it always was and always will be.

[Amfortas]

Johnny Shepard wrote...

Oh, how fun that would be. Everything you do is pointless and in future games you get no info about what happens later.

pointless? are you trying to say that a game can not be self-contained? You are rewarded in game, without having to wait, it's more inmediate. It's true that it's not as good as seeing the long term consequences, but it's something that I'm willing to sacrifice. I'd rather have the results here and now than wait for promises of big consequences in future games. Even more if some of my decisions have to be contradicted for the sake of the story.
Besides, and this is the most important thing for me, standalone games allow you to mess with the ending as you see fit, without having to worry about it not making sense in future games.

Johnny Shepard wrote...
They could just as well have made a new world and take another 8 years making the next game called "Spirituel secuel to Dragon Age".<_<

so? I don't see what's wrong with that, Dragon Age turned out to be a pretty good game


* edit: by the way, after reading what David Gaider said, I support bringing Duncan back so that I can kill him myself.

Modifié par Amfortas, 16 février 2011 - 11:56 .

[chrestan15]

Anders died - It is possible he just wanted you to think he was dead, because he wanted to roam freely again.

Anders given to Templars - Escaped

Anders not made Grey Warden - Justice was though, so in the short story, perhaps that is Justice's thoughts sifting through.



Justice and Anders might not have met in Awakenings in your play through (in which case you played it wrong!), but why could they not meet after. Justice has learned about the world, and agrees with Anders views.



I don't know, it doesn't matter. Every scenario is easily explained. And who is to say they won't based on your choice import from DA:O.

[earl of the north]

I treat the ending epilogues as being written in the same way the lore is written......vague and often contradictory with its 'facts'.

In the world of DA, the history is being written by people with open biases and with the backing of the nobles, the Chantry or the Circle etc. There isn't a totally trustworthy source of historic facts so why would the epilogues be any different?

Oh and my awakening epilogue doesn't match either for DA2.

Modifié par earl of the north, 16 février 2011 - 12:13 .

[stephen1493]

Harid wrote...

TheDarkestSpawn wrote...

awww... does baby need his bottle? did the story not go the way you wanted? Baby not happy with the epilogue? Well suck it up. Bioware is a game company that has devs nice enough to feed us tablescraps of info every now and then. They and the forumites aren't hear to coddle you everytime a change happens that hurts your wittle immersion. Things like this give us all a bad name. No wonder the media doesn't take us seriously.

I would argue the reason gamers aren't taken seriously is precisely because they 'take it', but that is an argument  you can take to pm, buddy.

The 'tablescraps' we are 'fed' can be found elsewhere, and I am not asking for anyone to coddle me, so. . .nice trolling, man.

Then I say you go find'em elsewhere if you have such a big problem with the devs and this community, but I digress.

I will agree with him that going on the forums for the sole purpose of whining cheapens us all.

[Wishpig]

AlexXIV wrote...

Well you can write a book with a story that starts and ends in it. Or you can a write a book and leave many ends open to continue the story in another book. And if you do the latter your second book should not contradict the first or make it obsolete. If you say that you like the choices Bioware gave you can't be indifferent about whether they were real choices or just a dialogue option you click just to be pushed in the direction they want you to go later. Nobody needs choices that don't matter.

I saved Anders from the Templars, broke into a building and killed Templars. That was my choice. But now I learn that I should have handed him to the Templars because for once he would escape anyway, become a Grey Warden anyway and gets possessed by Justice (or a justice spirit) anyway. And I don't need to break into rooms or kill templars at all. They made Morrigan unkillable, I assume to use her in another game. I wonder why, if they can just ressurrect her anyway. Reason is it would be bad storytelling and it always was and always will be.

Thats a terrible comprison. A book has one possible outcome, open ended or not. This game has a ton of diffrent endings and possibilities.

Yes, retcon sucks most of the time, yes it would be awesome if the devs accounted for everything and the story was never stretched or altered. But game design is a very take and give. With limited time and money, you can't always get what you want.

[Elite Midget]

See, fans of donning fantastical armor understand what our spacefleeting bretheren don't.

[AlexXIV]

Wishpig wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well you can write a book with a story that starts and ends in it. Or you can a write a book and leave many ends open to continue the story in another book. And if you do the latter your second book should not contradict the first or make it obsolete. If you say that you like the choices Bioware gave you can't be indifferent about whether they were real choices or just a dialogue option you click just to be pushed in the direction they want you to go later. Nobody needs choices that don't matter.

I saved Anders from the Templars, broke into a building and killed Templars. That was my choice. But now I learn that I should have handed him to the Templars because for once he would escape anyway, become a Grey Warden anyway and gets possessed by Justice (or a justice spirit) anyway. And I don't need to break into rooms or kill templars at all. They made Morrigan unkillable, I assume to use her in another game. I wonder why, if they can just ressurrect her anyway. Reason is it would be bad storytelling and it always was and always will be.

Thats a terrible comprison. A book has one possible outcome, open ended or not. This game has a ton of diffrent endings and possibilities.

Yes, retcon sucks most of the time, yes it would be awesome if the devs accounted for everything and the story was never stretched or altered. But game design is a very take and give. With limited time and money, you can't always get what you want.

Well, lame apologies won't make people buy the game.