457 réponses à ce sujet

[SnakeStrike8]

This thread makes me chuckle. Here's the OP grumblnig about how Bioware handwaved the stroy as far as Anders goes, and Mr. Gaider actually comes in and tries to explain it with in-universe reasoning (all of it made perfect sense to me, by the way), and people still fight to find loopholes in it.

I shall raise a toast in your name, Mr. Gaider! I'm certain I wouldn't have been able to summon the will to do what you're trying to do, despite everything going on. Cheers!

[David Gaider]

Aldaris951 wrote...
Duncan would of still been alive during the starting events of DA2, It would of been a huge nod to the fans if he was just there for a short cameo. (like hawk meets up with duncan and they compare beards  )

Yes, I can't imagine anyone who would consider bringing Duncan back another hand-wave.

Alistair talks to the warden about him going to highever to honor duncan. thats in the game itself.

And who's to say that he didn't?

[The Big Nothing]

David Gaider wrote...

Aldaris951 wrote...
In future games, I would prefer that if a character is killed off, that there wont be some loophole for that character to come back. Doing what they did with anders just removes choices from the game.

Not every choice carries forward into a future game, and of those that do they do not have an equal effect. That's simply the way it is, and it doesn't "remove" anything from the original game. Even had we established a single canon to carry forward (which many games do) that still wouldn't "remove" anything from the original game.

If you or anyone wish to treat the epilogues as something other than rumors and hearsay, as I said, that's your choice. If you treat them as hard and fast canon, however, never to be controverted, then you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

Btw Duncan's body was never found, so why not bring him back as well? if we are going by that reasoning. (I would love a duncan cameo in DA2)

We could bring Duncan back, if we wished. You could have seen him killed, and we could still bring him back if we really wanted to. We don't.

Fair enough, David. But answer the most important question, the one that is on everyone's mind: Did Duncan's ponytail survive? Is there still hope for it?

[SammyJB17]

David Gaider wrote...

Aldaris951 wrote...
Duncan would of still been alive during the starting events of DA2, It would of been a huge nod to the fans if he was just there for a short cameo. (like hawk meets up with duncan and they compare beards  )

Yes, I can't imagine anyone who would consider bringing Duncan back another hand-wave.

Considering Duncan IS ALREADY DEAD before you start DA 2, I think you are spot on there, Mr. Gaider.

[White_Buffalo94]

[quote]stephen1493 wrote...

[quote]Aldaris951 wrote...


[quote]Btw Duncan's body was never found, so why not bring him back as well? if we are going by that reasoning. (I would love a duncan cameo in DA2)[/quote]

We could bring Duncan back, if we wished. You could have seen him killed, and we could still bring him back if we really wanted to. We don't.

[/quote]


Duncan would of still been alive during the starting events of DA2, It would of been a huge nod to the fans if he was just there for a short cameo. (like hawk meets up with duncan and they compare beards  )

I still dont forgive bioware making a return to ostagar DLC and make it about burying a king that no one cared about but totally ignored Duncan, Who alot of people cared about, Even allistair.

Alistair talks to the warden about him going to highever to honor duncan. thats in the game itself.[/quote]


^^ not me

I believe that the starting events of DA2 isat the attack of Lothering. Every source I've seen claim this as so. If that's the case then Duncan would already be dead at that time.

[/quote]
DG said Duncan is dead and would not return besides in a prologue I think

[stephen1493]

[quote]White_Buffalo94 wrote...

[quote]stephen1493 wrote...

[quote]Aldaris951 wrote...


[quote]Btw Duncan's body was never found, so why not bring him back as well? if we are going by that reasoning. (I would love a duncan cameo in DA2)[/quote]

We could bring Duncan back, if we wished. You could have seen him killed, and we could still bring him back if we really wanted to. We don't.

[/quote]


Duncan would of still been alive during the starting events of DA2, It would of been a huge nod to the fans if he was just there for a short cameo. (like hawk meets up with duncan and they compare beards  )

I still dont forgive bioware making a return to ostagar DLC and make it about burying a king that no one cared about but totally ignored Duncan, Who alot of people cared about, Even allistair.

Alistair talks to the warden about him going to highever to honor duncan. thats in the game itself.[/quote]


^^ not me

I believe that the starting events of DA2 isat the attack of Lothering. Every source I've seen claim this as so. If that's the case then Duncan would already be dead at that time.

[/quote]
DG said Duncan is dead and would not return besides in a prologue I think[/quote]
^^ not me.

Then I suppose that's not enough time to compare the beards now is it.

[Purple People Eater]

The self important snobbery in this thread is hilarious. Who cares if your precious Awakenings decisions dont rumble through the foundation of DA2. Nothing happened in Awakening that was of any importance anyway save for the a few details about the Architect. All these inconsequential details involving Anders just dont matter.

[HTTP 404]

again? its happened before?

where was I when this happened int he first place?

Modifié par HTTP 404, 16 février 2011 - 03:16 .

[MColes]

White_Buffalo94 wrote...

Aldaris951 wrote...
This is all abit far fetched though,
Wardens from another country wouldnt defy the chantry because as we all
know, Wardens like to stay out of it, Our character had motivation to
recruit anders by other grey wardens from other countrys wouldnt of
recruited anders because they werent in their own country and would of
angered the chantry, thus risking war.

The wardens do not side with rulers of countries as I remember it, they will oppose the Chantry as they see fit. I may be wrong, but I remember reading that somewhere.
And news flash my friend, Duncan went against the wishes of the Revered Mother to recruit Alistair. She couldn't touch him.
Wardens have TOTAL rights over who they recruit. Duncan recruited Daveth out from under the royal guards nose, he took Alistair from the Chantry, he can take your Warden from certain death in the Dwarven Origins as well as the magi and City Elf Origins.
I'm sure David Gaider has everything down. Whatever you got in the epilogue or whatever you decided in Origins/Awakening can be waved. Nothing Gaider has written for DAII as of yet is contradicting

I believe it's explained in a codex entry, or maybe even by Duncan himself.  But sometimes Warden's do have consequences when they use the right of conscription (The Chantry/Guards/etc are only 'human'), it's just that on paper, in theory, they can recruit whomever they want.  The Wardens are an autonomous entity, essentially an army with no loyalty but their own cause, idealy. AS was seen in Ander's short story, sometime's they bring a bit of baggage along with them.

[Zanallen]

MColes wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

I never said joined. I said harbored. Wynne is a potential companion to the warden. Though the events of DA:O, you find out that Wynne is possessed by a spirit, though it is by all accounts a good spirit who lets Wynne do the talking. Since you can allow Wynne to stay with you at this point, you are, in fact, harboring her or at the very least aiding and abetting a known abomination. And what makes Justice any less an abomination? I mean, sure, he is technically closer to a walking corpse than anything else, but does that make him any less a being possessed by a spirit?

You forget there are scenarios where Wynne does not become a companion or dies by the Warden's hand. Kristoff can NOT be an Abomination because he's not a possessed mage.

Yes and you don't have to recruit Anders at all. Just because something can go one way doesn't mean other scenarios don't exist. Just because you don't have to have Wynne doesn't mean that you can potentionally have the Grey Wardens harboring an abomination. Also, from the DA wiki about abominations: . While mages stand the greatest chance of being possessed, as they draw their magic from the Fade, it is made clear than any elf or human is a potential host.

Yes, others may become possessed, but that doesn't make them Abominations. And the Wiki is full of inaccuracies that contradict ingame data.

Abominations are also demon possessions.  Not Spirits.  Justice is a Spirit.  There is, in fact, a difference.

But, as we see with Justice, spirits can become demons. So is there really a difference? From what I've seen it seems like demons are just evil spirits of the fade, but are still, in fact, spirits of the fade.

[Aldaris951]

Ah I made a mistake, Duncan would be dead at the start of DA2 though i do feel Duncan didnt really get a proper end, We never got to bury him or see his body, It will just shameful that bioware made return to ostagar DLC about the king that no one cared about, You have to be mad to like a king that you only spoke to twice, Over duncan who possibly saves your life, plus you see him in all 6 origins.



Most of the fans wanted Duncans robes as well, The kings armor was lore breaking because the wardens were accused of killing the king and your there wearing his armor lmao.

[stephen1493]

Purple People Eater wrote...

The self important snobbery in this thread is hilarious. Who cares if your precious Awakenings decisions dont rumble through the foundation of DA2. Nothing happened in Awakening that was of any importance anyway save for the a few details about the Architect. All these inconsequential details involving Anders just dont matter.

I'm sorry, are you answering with snobbery to be ironic?

Import is the main reason I'm a Bioware fan. Excuse us for wanting our choices to matter.

[leeboi2]

It's called canon, end of story.

[bluewolv1970]

So i essence the save game transfer is a useless feature, where the writers can show us ho wlittle our choices matter?

[stephen1493]

Aldaris951 wrote...

Ah I made a mistake, Duncan would be dead at the start of DA2 though i do feel Duncan didnt really get a proper end, We never got to bury him or see his body, It will just shameful that bioware made return to ostagar DLC about the king that no one cared about, You have to be mad to like a king that you only spoke to twice, Over duncan who possibly saves your life, plus you see him in all 6 origins.

Most of the fans wanted Duncans robes as well, The kings armor was lore breaking because the wardens were accused of killing the king and your there wearing his armor lmao.

*pats on back*
He was honered afterwards. He wouldn't have wanted us to take time away from the Blight the mourn him.

[Aldaris951]

(warden turns up at the landsmeet wearing the kings armor)



Warden: I didnt do it.

[Reaverwind]

Zanallen wrote...

So, I found a quote from David: "Regular people can be possessed by demons, and are still dangerous, but
they are not abominations. Abominations have access to a mage's full
power -- even a weak mage turned into an abomination is dangerous --
while a possessed human (or possessed anything) is only as dangerous as
the demon that did the possessing."

So, I guess non-mages are not abominations, but really...Is that the distinction that the Grey Wardens are making? Oh, this guy is possessed by a demon, but he doesn't have access to his own magic supply on top of the demon's, so he's cool.

To be honest, I didn't like the deal with either Wynne's "spirit helper" or Kristoff's possession. The game doesn't allow you to do anything about Wynne once you learn of her condition, although she does NOT go on rampage ala Anders and doesn't appear to be battling for control. I would have preferred an option to send Justice back to the Fade - he was transforming into something more disturbing. As for Anders - he's your poster boy for Abominations R US - freaks out when the merger takes place, loses control and slaughters people. In his lucid moments - he knows he's gone seriously wrong.

[stephen1493]

bluewolv1970 wrote...

So i essence the save game transfer is a useless feature, where the writers can show us ho wlittle our choices matter?

Umm no?
Gaider backed his reasoning over the subject and being blunt about this is kind of inflammatory.

[Purple People Eater]

stephen1493 wrote...

Purple People Eater wrote...

The self important snobbery in this thread is hilarious. Who cares if your precious Awakenings decisions dont rumble through the foundation of DA2. Nothing happened in Awakening that was of any importance anyway save for the a few details about the Architect. All these inconsequential details involving Anders just dont matter.

I'm sorry, are you answering with snobbery to be ironic?

Import is the main reason I'm a Bioware fan. Excuse us for wanting our choices to matter.

You're ****ing about an expantion that isnt cannon. David Gaider has come in here and literally given people the thought process behind how the events of Awakenings pertain to what will occur in DA2. Still the persistent whining. And yes, my snobbery was meant to be ironic. Annoying isnt it?

[Gabriel S.]

Aldaris951 wrote...

(warden turns up at the landsmeet wearing the kings armor)

Warden: I didnt do it.

Return to Ostagar DLC?

[The Big Nothing]

What's with this sense of entitlement? The save transfer is a perk, like eating with a utensil. Get over it.

[MColes]

Zanallen wrote...

MColes wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

I never said joined. I said harbored. Wynne is a potential companion to the warden. Though the events of DA:O, you find out that Wynne is possessed by a spirit, though it is by all accounts a good spirit who lets Wynne do the talking. Since you can allow Wynne to stay with you at this point, you are, in fact, harboring her or at the very least aiding and abetting a known abomination. And what makes Justice any less an abomination? I mean, sure, he is technically closer to a walking corpse than anything else, but does that make him any less a being possessed by a spirit?

You forget there are scenarios where Wynne does not become a companion or dies by the Warden's hand. Kristoff can NOT be an Abomination because he's not a possessed mage.

Yes and you don't have to recruit Anders at all. Just because something can go one way doesn't mean other scenarios don't exist. Just because you don't have to have Wynne doesn't mean that you can potentionally have the Grey Wardens harboring an abomination. Also, from the DA wiki about abominations: . While mages stand the greatest chance of being possessed, as they draw their magic from the Fade, it is made clear than any elf or human is a potential host.

Yes, others may become possessed, but that doesn't make them Abominations. And the Wiki is full of inaccuracies that contradict ingame data.

Abominations are also demon possessions.  Not Spirits.  Justice is a Spirit.  There is, in fact, a difference.

But, as we see with Justice, spirits can become demons. So is there really a difference? From what I've seen it seems like demons are just evil spirits of the fade, but are still, in fact, spirits of the fade.

Does Justice become a demon?  Does he really? Or does he become a SPIRIT of Vengeance?  Vengeance being a bad thing, is morally ambiguous. I don't think it's a bad thing. 

Also, playing devil's advocate because that's just how I roll.. *scroll flipping* Abominations are when Demons inhabit MAGES, not others.  I suppose it has something to do with the magic, yea? Also the fact that demon's can't inhabit dwarves, for the exact opposite reason (No magic) makes things very very interesting indeed.

[GothDude]

bluewolv1970 wrote...

So i essence the save game transfer is a useless feature, where the writers can show us ho wlittle our choices matter?

NO!
this is not confirmed!

for all we know the mini story bout Anders could be from one of the 3 default world saves!
maybe not from a import save

so there is no proof that they dont cover everything. it its not a proven Canon yet!!! DX<

wait for the friggin game before you start making claims and accusations bout Bioware's game!!

[Sticky Controller]

[quote]Aldaris951 wrote...


[quote]Btw Duncan's body was never found, so why not bring him back as well? if we are going by that reasoning. (I would love a duncan cameo in DA2)[/quote]

David Gaider:  -We could bring Duncan back, if we wished. You could have seen him killed, and we could still bring him back if we really wanted to. We don't.-

[/quote]


Duncan would of still been alive during the starting events of DA2, It would of been a huge nod to the fans if he was just there for a short cameo. (like hawk meets up with duncan and they compare beards  )

I still dont forgive bioware making a return to ostagar DLC and make it about burying a king that no one cared about but totally ignored Duncan, Who alot of people cared about, Even allistair.

Alistair talks to the warden about him going to highever to honor duncan. thats in the game itself.[/quote]

You should really wait to play the game....
Duncan is long dead when the game starts. Lothering is being attacked by Darkspawn when DA2 starts. That means Duncan was killed already and the Wardens already passed through there.

[stephen1493]

Purple People Eater wrote...

stephen1493 wrote...

Purple People Eater wrote...

The self important snobbery in this thread is hilarious. Who cares if your precious Awakenings decisions dont rumble through the foundation of DA2. Nothing happened in Awakening that was of any importance anyway save for the a few details about the Architect. All these inconsequential details involving Anders just dont matter.

I'm sorry, are you answering with snobbery to be ironic?

Import is the main reason I'm a Bioware fan. Excuse us for wanting our choices to matter.

You're ****ing about an expantion that isnt cannon. David Gaider has come in here and literally given people the thought process behind how the events of Awakenings pertain to what will occur in DA2. Still the persistent whining. And yes, my snobbery was meant to be ironic. Annoying isnt it?

Going into a thread to call everyone idiots is more along the lines of trolling.

Either way you mentioned That Awakening didn't matter unless it had to do with the Archetect and that is just sooo untrue.