134 réponses à ce sujet

[lazuli]

SebastianDA wrote...

re: Lazuli

I think the lines are starting to get blurred. We now have bad-ass heorines in movies like Resident Evil that guys want to watch and guys that need to be saved in some movies, or a more "save each other" type of approach where the guy saves the girl, but then the guy gets overwhelmed and the girl has to land the final blow on the villain.

Also we have shows like CougarTown / Sex & the City that shows women as powerful and the mean as sex objects/stupid.

Even in men's magazines, men's bodies are now objectified - I don't know how many male torsoes I have to look at in GQ trying to sell me a cologne.

I think gone are the days where all women have to be portrayed as weak/helpless/demure. In fact many people find those representations of women to be dull.

Agreed.  We have certainly come a long way.  But western civilization has highly patriarchal roots, roots that still hold undeniable sway.  I don't think there's any harm in being aware of traits that our society would stereotypically associate with masculinity and femininity, though, especially when we use such an awareness to inform a healthy critique.

[Reaverwind]

RainyDayLover wrote...

Why restrict them to only male?

I want my bald, masculine ladyHawke DAMMIT.

Sorry, masculine models lack sufficient boobage for this game.

[yuncas]

D.Kain wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

When I described Isabella as feminine it was in regards to her large boobs, and large butt, with a small waist. She also has long hair, is well groomed, and appears to be wearing makeup.

When I describe god of war, or boris kodjoe as masculine, it is in regards to their lack of hair (high testosterone causes men to lose hair), chiseled physiques (muscles also caused by testosterone), and height (males are much taller than females). Thats all I meant with masculine and feminine. It had nothing to do with personality.

A masculine looking guy can have a very feminine personality, and vice versa. I was speaking in regards to looks alone.

That's the second time you've made this almost exact post on this page, bro

D.Kain wrote...
Let me guess you are offended because you are a woman? Well guess what. I haven't said anything about women at all... ../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png

I am a woman. And I'm "offended" because your incredibly clumsy handle on basic gender studies 101 is like watching a cat trying to climb a tree with no back legs.

I'm gonna go crazy... I'm not talking to you about gender! 

Let's say feminine is wine and masculine is beer. Then let's say female is a glass and male is a cup. 
You can put wine in a glass or cup, and you can put beer in a glass or cup! 

Maybe that will make it clear? Hm? Feminine traits are not about female,  and masculine traits are not about male.

How many more times.  

I usually can understand when people don't agree with me. But you don't even understand what I'm saying.

Because your "masculine" and "feminine" are barely veiled GENDER STEREOTYPES!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing more.

[London]

I can completely agree there - we still have a long way to go. And I'm not so sure that just turning the tables and reversing the roles men and women play is really the answer, but I do see how that can play a role in turning the tides.

[Maria Caliban]

D.Kain wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Exactly. A female is competitive? +1 to being masculine. A male is stupid? +1 to being feminine.

Please, please just stop talking. There isn't a cringe big enough in the world to encompass this

Let me guess you are offended because you are a woman? Well guess what. I haven't said anything about women at all... 

Are you going to pull out the Bell Curve next and 'pass along' the information that blacks have a higher IQ than whites? Oh no, you're not saying it yourself, you're just telling us all what someone else says while using that person as a legitimate authority.

How stupid do you think the moderators are?

[yuncas]

lazuli wrote...


Agreed.  We have certainly come a long way.  But western civilization has highly patriarchal roots, roots that still hold undeniable sway.  I don't think there's any harm in being aware of traits that our society would stereotypically associate with masculinity and femininity, though, especially when we use such an awareness to inform a healthy critique.

Well put.

[RosaAquafire]

SebastianDA wrote...

D. Kain kind of misses the point.

Kind of ?

[D.Kain]

SebastianDA wrote...

D. Kain kind of misses the point. Weaker/less valued/more passive roles have been assigned "feminine" because they are based on antiquated notions of men and women.

You cannot use those terms and completely ignore why those terms are assigned the "gender" that they are.

Trying to say that you aren't talking about gender is just an unconscious attempt to perpetuate traditionalist notions of men and women.

Oh I can easily do that. We live in different times. Times when people are equal. I understand how it used to be, but it isn't like that anymore. 

I can make a simple example. I have a fancy hairstyle. If I were to live in tribal times, that hairstyle wouldn't be possible to have, because I wouldn't have everything I need to make that kind of hair, more over my hair would make me hunt bad because it is not suited for that kind of envierment. If we were to take all things as they were some hundred years ago, my hairstyle would still be considered bad, but it's not considered bad, because it's different times.

Same goes for this topic.

[yuncas]

D.Kain wrote...

SebastianDA wrote...

D. Kain kind of misses the point. Weaker/less valued/more passive roles have been assigned "feminine" because they are based on antiquated notions of men and women.

You cannot use those terms and completely ignore why those terms are assigned the "gender" that they are.

Trying to say that you aren't talking about gender is just an unconscious attempt to perpetuate traditionalist notions of men and women.

Oh I can easily do that. We live in different times. Times when people are equal. I understand how it used to be, but it isn't like that anymore. 

I can make a simple example. I have a fancy hairstyle. If I were to live in tribal times, that hairstyle wouldn't be possible to have, because I wouldn't have everything I need to make that kind of hair, more over my hair would make me hunt bad because it is not suited for that kind of envierment. If we were to take all things as they were some hundred years ago, my hairstyle would still be considered bad, but it's not considered bad, because it's different times.

Same goes for this topic.

uhh. You're seriously gonna try and equate hair wax and gender equality? Really?

[London]

D. Kain - unfortunately you are just wrong.



We might live in different times but there are still people alive from the 20's. You may believe that you can speak however you please and that those connotations of what you are saying have only the meaning you intend to those around you, but it just isn't true.



Your analogy to hair-styles doens't really apply; we are more talking about social indoctrination to gender norms and how the past continues to disempower people today, even subconsciously.

[mesmerizedish]

D.Kain wrote...

yuncas wrote...

I can read, yes. And I say even if you feel it has nothing to do with gender it's still antiquated. The only reason those things can be associated like that is because of cultural attitudes and societal mores. It's feminine to be stupid? It's masculine to be competitive? Come on.

Exactly. A female is competitive? +1 to being masculine. A male is stupid? +1 to being feminine.

Wait, really? Stupidity is a feminine trait? Oh, no, because "feminine" doesn't have anything to do with being a woman, so it's okay. Sorry I didn't see that. Must be my feminine stupidity again.

[kcwME]

My brain feels like it's folding in on itself.

[Sierra Crisis]

Saying feminine doesn't relate to females is like saying feline doesn't relate to cats. And strapping intelligence to either gender is retarded, sure in the 1700's women had to use male pseudonyms or have their brothers/fathers publish their works, but that stupidity is no longer around, and there's no reason to hold onto that anymore.



On topic.



Clearly the OP was referring to looks. The question..? Why is their a hollywood female cast in the companions, but not a male counterpart. I think the answer is probably the same reason why all the advertisement and cinematic characters are always male. It's a demographic. They're using Isabella as a hook for gamers, (typically male, but made her avalible for us too.)



I think a strong male companion, like the GOW guy or like, Dwayne Johnson, for instance would need a custom sculpt body/animations in order for the bald look to look good, And then people would want to beable to have/be envious of why their male hero is not like that guy, and if they didn't have the choice not to be that, then they'd complain about why they hafta be some overmasculine brute.



There's also the face of dominant/submissive... in which, assuming this guy would be a LI for Lady Hawke, in which he most certainly would, his choices would be backseat to Hawke's, she would always have to initiate everything, so on, and so forth, which seems to kill it. I don't know if they can do a dominant male LI, but if they can, I certainly wish they would. It gets so tiring having to always place the moves on these guys.



That's about all.

[London]

And times when people are equal? Are you kidding me?



Times when less than 10% of all law firm partners are women; times when we are still litigating class action lawsuits every year where women are being paid less, on average, for the same jobs as men, times when women still have the glass ceiling because only recently have they had opportunity to move up the corporate ladder, where women are expected to work today but still take care of most of the housework; where employers still fear hiring a woman for certain roles for fear they will just end up needing to take maternity leave, where men are just outspoken but women are ****es for speaking their minds, where women take up a disproprortionate number of "female" roles like secretary and nurse for high powered male CEOs and surgeons....



This hardly feels equal.

[yuncas]

D.Kain is a closet misogynist but he hasn't figured it out yet.

[Pacifien]

I'm pretty sure this thread didn't start out as an analysis of sociological gender issues. It should not become a thread about such issues. (Reacquaint yourself with the Site Rules.) Would you like to get back on topic or has the topic run its course?

Modifié par Pacifien, 16 février 2011 - 06:01 .

[D.Kain]

SebastianDA wrote...

D. Kain - unfortunately you are just wrong.

We might live in different times but there are still people alive from the 20's. You may believe that you can speak however you please and that those connotations of what you are saying have only the meaning you intend to those around you, but it just isn't true.

Your analogy to hair-styles doens't really apply; we are more talking about social indoctrination to gender norms and how the past continues to disempower people today, even subconsciously.

Ok if you think feminine and masculine are linked with sex, then a simple question for you:

You see a muscular person, that is rational, that is agressive, that is not emotional, that is dominant. But that person has breasts and a vagina. 

What are you going to call that person a man or a woman? 

[Talon_Wu]

SebastianDA wrote...

I think gone are the days where all women have to be portrayed as weak/helpless/demure. In fact many people find those representations of women to be dull.

Unfortunately, I'd have to disagree somewhat. Some men might enjoy seeing Milla Jovovich kicking ass on screen, but an awful lot still find strong, assertive, "masculine" men a complete turnoff. The number of individuals who find FemShep "butch" and "manly" is rather disheartening, as is the lack of interest in Aveline. A lot of men don't find strong representations of women dull, they find them downright threatening, and, in all fairness, so do some women.

[London]

In conclusion, this is why Dragon Age 2 needs a hypermasculine character to counter Isabela, preferably bald. *whistles innocently*

[RosaAquafire]

D.Kain wrote...

Ok if you think feminine and masculine are linked with sex, then a simple question for you:

You see a muscular person, that is rational, that is agressive, that is not emotional, that is dominant. But that person has breasts and a vagina. 

What are you going to call that person a man or a woman?

Going to call them a woman. Also, not going to call them masculine.

[D.Kain]

Modifié par D.Kain, 16 février 2011 - 06:03 .

[yuncas]

SebastianDA wrote...

In conclusion, this is why Dragon Age 2 needs a hypermasculine character to counter Isabela, preferably bald. *whistles innocently*

Yup. This.

[Sabresandiego]

SebastianDA wrote...

In conclusion, this is why Dragon Age 2 needs a hypermasculine character to counter Isabela, preferably bald. *whistles innocently*

I vote for a god of war Kratos type character as a future DLC

[JetsoverEverything]

why isnt there any black companions?

[D.Kain]

RosaAquafire wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Ok if you think feminine and masculine are linked with sex, then a simple question for you:

You see a muscular person, that is rational, that is agressive, that is not emotional, that is dominant. But that person has breasts and a vagina. 

What are you going to call that person a man or a woman?

Going to call them a woman. Also, not going to call them masculine.

So basically your saying: masculine and feminine is your genitalia?