345 réponses à ce sujet

[FereldenDweller]

I have now preordered, too late of course, because by the time I found out about Origins and finished it it was already too late (wish there had been a lot more marketing when it came out so I would have known about the best game ever back then...) And frankly, I don't feel entitled to ANY free content. All I ask is to be able to BUY the content that was available in the special edition. I am more than happy to pay for it. My only gripe is if any of the content is exclusive and can't even be purchased by other loyal pre-ordering (albeit late) customers. Let the rest of the pre-order customers at least buy the rest of the content is all I ask. And it's not a question of entitlement, it's a question of taking care of your customers and rewarding good customers instead of punishing them. Heck, if that stuff is unavailable to the rest of us then what incentive does anyone else have to preorder the regular edition that is still available to preorder? Do they want pre-orders or don't they?

[crimzontearz]

JrayM16 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Morroian wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

Wait, which reason?

The reasons why Vale is DLC.

what people question is not wether the reason given to us is logical or not....they are questioning its truthfulness because, let's face it, unless you work for the company you will never know if what they tell you is the truth. As I said I do work for such a company (not in the videoludic business) and since I've been working for them I question everything coming from a marketing department 

We all know that some companies do use shady business tactics.  The fact that you work at one doesn't make you any more enlighteded than the rest of us.  Is is possible that Bioware is lying to us?  Absolutely, and if they are then I would switch my viewpoint in a heartbeat.  But the doubt alone is not enough to convince me whatsoever.  Especially since content has been cut for time from Bioware games for a long time. 

As it stands right now, Bioware has put out an offer for extra content if you preorder or buy new.  This is a valid business tactic and there is no proof whatsoever of any shady play.  Innocent until proven guilty.

you are assuming I am pissed at this because I either did not preorder or do not want to buy the game new. No, this is not the case...I have preordered LONG ago......and obviously will get the game new but I cannot help but  doubt. Yes just because my company adopts shady tactics (in my opinion) or divulges lies of omission that does not mean Bioware does. But Bioware now belongs to EA, they are NOT just Bioware anymore.......yes yes yes we have all heard how EA is very accomodating and whatnot and how people should stop calling it "evil", and hey some of the latest franchises are AMAZING (Dead space? Crysis 2 on all platforms?)...but it is still a large company with a Marketing department that has a chockehold on Bioware (in certain areas) and has a bottom line. Therefore I question everything because this can be the beginning of a slippery slope....because up until...what 4 years ago? up until 4 years ago what Capcom did with SF would have been unthinkable yet there we have it

[JrayM16]

Nighteye2 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Autolycus wrote...
There are things with DA2 I am very unsure of, things I 'personally' do not like etc etc etc, so I will not buy it until there is more information available, actual real customer reviews and I can then make a 'more' informed decision.
So why would I pre-order something that I wish to wait until is out, before making a decision?

Why would/should we extend the offer past the deadline date just to satisfy your subjective need to be more informed? Jeopardy doesn't wait until you've consulted an encyclopedia or called your friends before answering the Final Jeopardy question. It has a very definite start and end period, during which you make your choice. A store is under no obligation to keep the tills open for you past their operating hours. Businesses are not obligated to honour coupons past the stated expiry date.

But I do understand what you're both saying, I could pre-order, have all bonuses and be a happy bunny. But thats dependent on me just trusting a few biased magazine reviews, and a titbit of info on here, along with as has been discussed, blind faith in Bioware.
Again, from what I have seen of DA2 so far, I'm turned off, so wish to wait for more information. so again, why is that wrong?

it's not wrong. but by the same token, you could hem and haw all you like and wait for the information you require. but the limited time special offer will expire in the process. When do you take responsibility for choosing not to take advantage of the deal while it's being offered?

While that may sound logical, it does not do justice to how people feel. Feelings are not always logical.

In this case, people who intend to buy the game ay day 1 or close to it feel entitled to the extra content being offered for free. So, instead of seeing the bonus content as an extra, a present, their perception is instead that, by not pre-ordering, they;re losing out on the bonus content.

So, you're placing them in a dilemma: either buy the game on good faith and a tiny bit of info, or miss out on the bonus content. A lose-lose scenario. Which isn't fun. So it's not surprising that people complain about it...

THere are times when emotion is and isn't a good idea to bring into a debate.  FOr really intense issues like gay marriage or abortion, emotions must be considered because these issues affect lives. 

FOr the issue of preorder bonuses for a videogame, there is zero need to go any further than a quick logical appraisal, which is what Stan has done. 

[JrayM16]

crimzontearz wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Morroian wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

Wait, which reason?

The reasons why Vale is DLC.

what people question is not wether the reason given to us is logical or not....they are questioning its truthfulness because, let's face it, unless you work for the company you will never know if what they tell you is the truth. As I said I do work for such a company (not in the videoludic business) and since I've been working for them I question everything coming from a marketing department 

We all know that some companies do use shady business tactics.  The fact that you work at one doesn't make you any more enlighteded than the rest of us.  Is is possible that Bioware is lying to us?  Absolutely, and if they are then I would switch my viewpoint in a heartbeat.  But the doubt alone is not enough to convince me whatsoever.  Especially since content has been cut for time from Bioware games for a long time. 

As it stands right now, Bioware has put out an offer for extra content if you preorder or buy new.  This is a valid business tactic and there is no proof whatsoever of any shady play.  Innocent until proven guilty.

you are assuming I am pissed at this because I either did not preorder or do not want to buy the game new. No, this is not the case...I have preordered LONG ago......and obviously will get the game new but I cannot help but  doubt. Yes just because my company adopts shady tactics (in my opinion) or divulges lies of omission that does not mean Bioware does. But Bioware now belongs to EA, they are NOT just Bioware anymore.......yes yes yes we have all heard how EA is very accomodating and whatnot and how people should stop calling it "evil", and hey some of the latest franchises are AMAZING (Dead space? Crysis 2 on all platforms?)...but it is still a large company with a Marketing department that has a chockehold on Bioware (in certain areas) and has a bottom line. Therefore I question everything because this can be the beginning of a slippery slope....because up until...what 4 years ago? up until 4 years ago what Capcom did with SF would have been unthinkable yet there we have it

No, I ams imply arguiing innocent until proven guilty.

[Black_Warden]

FereldenDweller wrote...

I have now preordered, too late of course, because by the time I found out about Origins and finished it it was already too late (wish there had been a lot more marketing when it came out so I would have known about the best game ever back then...) And frankly, I don't feel entitled to ANY free content. All I ask is to be able to BUY the content that was available in the special edition. I am more than happy to pay for it. My only gripe is if any of the content is exclusive and can't even be purchased by other loyal pre-ordering (albeit late) customers. Let the rest of the pre-order customers at least buy the rest of the content is all I ask. And it's not a question of entitlement, it's a question of taking care of your customers and rewarding good customers instead of punishing them. Heck, if that stuff is unavailable to the rest of us then what incentive does anyone else have to preorder the regular edition that is still available to preorder? Do they want pre-orders or don't they?

The point of offering an exclusive collector's/special/signature edition is that it's exclusive. This point would be defeated if the items making this edition exclusive were, you know, not exclusive....

[Morroian]

crimzontearz wrote...

you are assuming I am pissed at this because I either did not preorder or do not want to buy the game new. No, this is not the case...I have preordered LONG ago......and obviously will get the game new but I cannot help but  doubt. Yes just because my company adopts shady tactics (in my opinion) or divulges lies of omission that does not mean Bioware does. But Bioware now belongs to EA, they are NOT just Bioware anymore.......yes yes yes we have all heard how EA is very accomodating and whatnot and how people should stop calling it "evil", and hey some of the latest franchises are 

Yeah but its Bioware people talking to us not EA.

[crimzontearz]

JrayM16 wrote...

No, I ams imply arguiing innocent until proven guilty.

and I'm implying profiling is good :innocent:

[AlexXIV]

Black_Warden wrote...

FereldenDweller wrote...

I have now preordered, too late of course, because by the time I found out about Origins and finished it it was already too late (wish there had been a lot more marketing when it came out so I would have known about the best game ever back then...) And frankly, I don't feel entitled to ANY free content. All I ask is to be able to BUY the content that was available in the special edition. I am more than happy to pay for it. My only gripe is if any of the content is exclusive and can't even be purchased by other loyal pre-ordering (albeit late) customers. Let the rest of the pre-order customers at least buy the rest of the content is all I ask. And it's not a question of entitlement, it's a question of taking care of your customers and rewarding good customers instead of punishing them. Heck, if that stuff is unavailable to the rest of us then what incentive does anyone else have to preorder the regular edition that is still available to preorder? Do they want pre-orders or don't they?

The point of offering an exclusive collector's/special/signature edition is that it's exclusive. This point would be defeated if the items making this edition exclusive were, you know, not exclusive....

The point of offering exclusive collerctor/special/signature edition is that's it's exclusive. But what's the point of having exclusive items in a video game? That you can point at your friend and laugh at him because he doesn't have it?

[Morroian]

Autolycus wrote...

Mr Woo...
It has nothing at all to do with the limited time offer, and I actually never said it did. I am referring specifically to bonus items that are only available if you pre-order. Some people can't, some people wish to wait, some people I am sure have other reasons. So they miss out.

The point is Bioware have given full disclosure and thus people have the choice. Its possible to pre-order without putting down a deposit and cancel before its ships therefore there are very few excuses that hold water.

[crimzontearz]

Morroian wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

you are assuming I am pissed at this because I either did not preorder or do not want to buy the game new. No, this is not the case...I have preordered LONG ago......and obviously will get the game new but I cannot help but  doubt. Yes just because my company adopts shady tactics (in my opinion) or divulges lies of omission that does not mean Bioware does. But Bioware now belongs to EA, they are NOT just Bioware anymore.......yes yes yes we have all heard how EA is very accomodating and whatnot and how people should stop calling it "evil", and hey some of the latest franchises are 

Yeah but its Bioware people talking to us not EA.

yeah but  they report to EA not to other Bioware employees

[the_one_54321]

crimzontearz wrote...
you are assuming I am pissed at this because I either did not preorder or do not want to buy the game new. No, this is not the case...I have preordered LONG ago......and obviously will get the game new but I cannot help but  doubt. Yes just because my company adopts shady tactics (in my opinion) or divulges lies of omission that does not mean Bioware does. But Bioware now belongs to EA, they are NOT just Bioware anymore.......yes yes yes we have all heard how EA is very accomodating and whatnot and how people should stop calling it "evil", and hey some of the latest franchises are AMAZING (Dead space? Crysis 2 on all platforms?)...but it is still a large company with a Marketing department that has a chockehold on Bioware (in certain areas) and has a bottom line. Therefore I question everything because this can be the beginning of a slippery slope....because up until...what 4 years ago? up until 4 years ago what Capcom did with SF would have been unthinkable yet there we have it

Likewise, I am not trying to say that BioWare has sold its soul to the devil in exchange for more sales. But I'm always going to be a skeptic first, and I think that any consumer would be incredibly unwise to not be a skeptic first. As of right now, I know that I am very unhappy with the sales options BioWare has presented us with and all I'm doing is talking about why, and letting them and other folks know that I won't be supporting those choices with my money.

[Black_Warden]

AlexXIV wrote...

Black_Warden wrote...

FereldenDweller wrote...

I have now preordered, too late of course, because by the time I found out about Origins and finished it it was already too late (wish there had been a lot more marketing when it came out so I would have known about the best game ever back then...) And frankly, I don't feel entitled to ANY free content. All I ask is to be able to BUY the content that was available in the special edition. I am more than happy to pay for it. My only gripe is if any of the content is exclusive and can't even be purchased by other loyal pre-ordering (albeit late) customers. Let the rest of the pre-order customers at least buy the rest of the content is all I ask. And it's not a question of entitlement, it's a question of taking care of your customers and rewarding good customers instead of punishing them. Heck, if that stuff is unavailable to the rest of us then what incentive does anyone else have to preorder the regular edition that is still available to preorder? Do they want pre-orders or don't they?

The point of offering an exclusive collector's/special/signature edition is that it's exclusive. This point would be defeated if the items making this edition exclusive were, you know, not exclusive....

The point of offering exclusive collerctor/special/signature edition is that's it's exclusive. But what's the point of having exclusive items in a video game? That you can point at your friend and laugh at him because he doesn't have it?

...Yes

[crimzontearz]

the_one_54321 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
you are assuming I am pissed at this because I either did not preorder or do not want to buy the game new. No, this is not the case...I have preordered LONG ago......and obviously will get the game new but I cannot help but  doubt. Yes just because my company adopts shady tactics (in my opinion) or divulges lies of omission that does not mean Bioware does. But Bioware now belongs to EA, they are NOT just Bioware anymore.......yes yes yes we have all heard how EA is very accomodating and whatnot and how people should stop calling it "evil", and hey some of the latest franchises are AMAZING (Dead space? Crysis 2 on all platforms?)...but it is still a large company with a Marketing department that has a chockehold on Bioware (in certain areas) and has a bottom line. Therefore I question everything because this can be the beginning of a slippery slope....because up until...what 4 years ago? up until 4 years ago what Capcom did with SF would have been unthinkable yet there we have it

Likewise, I am not trying to say that BioWare has sold its soul to the devil in exchange for more sales. But I'm always going to be a skeptic first, and I think that any consumer would be incredibly unwise to not be a skeptic first. As of right now, I know that I am very unhappy with the sales options BioWare has presented us with and all I'm doing is talking about why, and letting them and other folks know that I won't be supporting those choices with my money.

I can afford  to preorder regardless because, well I work and I buy very little games...most of them Bioware games so I'm ok...but I do understand for instance those who want to WAIT and were miffed by the timeline

[KyleOrdrum]

I don't get the problem here. They decided to do something nice for the loyal fanbase and encourage us not to ignore the game based on early changes from the previous game that might have scared people away.



It's not really a question of faith even as some have put it. I preordered at gamestop before the collector's edition was announced. If the information coming out turned out to be a game I wouldn't enjoy, I would simply cancel my pre-order. Basically, I got free stuff because I enjoyed the first game, and decided I wanted to keep playing the series.



As to the point of an exclusive item in a video game, it comes down to replay value. In DA:O for instance, I liked playing with story driven characters and teams. As such, to play on the harder difficulties, some DLC items were needed to make this work. Why is getting more out of a game ever a bad thing?

[John Epler]

crimzontearz wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Yeah but its Bioware people talking to us not EA.

yeah but  they report to EA not to other Bioware employees

You are aware, of course, that no one on the development team is required to respond to threads. We come on these boards of our own free will and often in our own free time. Not to mention, none of us are obligated to respond to any post or topic if we don't want to. So to suggest that we're just repeating the EA company line - well, frankly, I don't need to post at all, and if I'm posting something it's because I want to clarify a point. If I'm not allowed to comment on something, or if I don't have something to add, I just won't post.

So if you're getting a response from a developer, as far as we're aware it's 100% true. We're not in the business of lying, particularly when it's relating to part of our job that's entirely optional. I'm not about to sacrifice my integrity just because someone on the forums is upset about a decision we've made.

[Gill Kaiser]

Why couldn't you just have pre-ordered for free?

[CheesecakeRecipe]

The amount of "[Darn] you, I got mine" attitudes these threads see is quite frankly sickening.

[No swearing, please.]

The asterisks did the job of telling me not to do that just fine, thanks.

Modifié par CheesecakeRecipe, 16 février 2011 - 11:09 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Autolycus wrote...

Mr Woo...
It has nothing at all to do with the limited time offer, and I actually never said it did. I am referring specifically to bonus items that are only available if you pre-order. Some people can't, some people wish to wait, some people I am sure have other reasons. So they miss out.

As for your other comments, I will take your advice about not making things worse, so I shall say nothing else.

What dont you understand about the concept of a limited time offer, with a bonus for those who utilize it. It's a tried and true business concept.

Have you ever seen a credit card commercial?  Use my credit card, get a free tote bag, or win super bowl tickets, or get cash back or........insert offer.

Offer expires at XX/XX/XXXX

I did not get "insert offer"

Why dont people get mad at that?

[shnizzler93]

[Off-topic link removed]

This is the worst marketing idea ever.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 16 février 2011 - 11:10 .

[Black_Warden]

JohnEpler wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Yeah but its Bioware people talking to us not EA.

yeah but  they report to EA not to other Bioware employees

You are aware, of course, that no one on the development team is required to respond to threads. We come on these boards of our own free will and often in our own free time. *snip*

And here i was under the impression "free time" was a myth at the BioWare studios...

[the_one_54321]

shnizzler93
This is the worst marketing idea ever.

Actually, I thought that was hilarious. Though it didn't make me want to buy the game at all.

[Cloaking_Thane]

AlexXIV wrote...

Black_Warden wrote...

FereldenDweller wrote...

I have now preordered, too late of course, because by the time I found out about Origins and finished it it was already too late (wish there had been a lot more marketing when it came out so I would have known about the best game ever back then...) And frankly, I don't feel entitled to ANY free content. All I ask is to be able to BUY the content that was available in the special edition. I am more than happy to pay for it. My only gripe is if any of the content is exclusive and can't even be purchased by other loyal pre-ordering (albeit late) customers. Let the rest of the pre-order customers at least buy the rest of the content is all I ask. And it's not a question of entitlement, it's a question of taking care of your customers and rewarding good customers instead of punishing them. Heck, if that stuff is unavailable to the rest of us then what incentive does anyone else have to preorder the regular edition that is still available to preorder? Do they want pre-orders or don't they?

The point of offering an exclusive collector's/special/signature edition is that it's exclusive. This point would be defeated if the items making this edition exclusive were, you know, not exclusive....

The point of offering exclusive collerctor/special/signature edition is that's it's exclusive. But what's the point of having exclusive items in a video game? That you can point at your friend and laugh at him because he doesn't have it?

The general premise of pre-order goodies in this case is to fight against Used Video game sale companies companies such as Gamestop.

Because on pure used game sales the producer/developer dont see a red cent

[coomber]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Why would/should we extend the offer past the deadline date just to satisfy your subjective need to be more informed? Jeopardy doesn't wait until you've consulted an encyclopedia or called your friends before answering the Final Jeopardy question. It has a very definite start and end period, during which you make your choice. A store is under no obligation to keep the tills open for you past their operating hours. Businesses are not obligated to honour coupons past the stated expiry date.

First, thank you for posting in this thread. It's good to see Bioware's stance on this, as most of us who disapprove of this marketing had laid the blame for this entirely at EA's feet. Now we know nobody twisted Bioware's arm.

To respond to your analogy, you are quite right - a store is not obligated to stay open beyond its hours. But it *chooses* the hours it stays open for - and Bioware decided to shut up shop months before the game was released. And it is that *choice* that we feel was unfair.

Edit: Reading that back, I can see a predictable response coming my way in that I chose not to pre-order. No - I was not aware of the pre-order offer until the day it ended, otherwise I would have put my money down.

Modifié par coomber, 16 février 2011 - 11:23 .

[Black_Warden]

coomber wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Why would/should we extend the offer past the deadline date just to satisfy your subjective need to be more informed? Jeopardy doesn't wait until you've consulted an encyclopedia or called your friends before answering the Final Jeopardy question. It has a very definite start and end period, during which you make your choice. A store is under no obligation to keep the tills open for you past their operating hours. Businesses are not obligated to honour coupons past the stated expiry date.

First, thank you for posting in this thread. It's good to see Bioware's stance on this, as most of us who disapprove of this marketing had laid the blame for this entirely at EA's feet. Now we know nobody twisted Bioware's arm.

To respond to your analogy, you are quite right - a store is not obligated to stay open beyond its hours. But it *chooses* the hours it stays open for - and Bioware decided to shut up shop months before the game was released. And it is that *choice* that we feel was unfair.

If bioware tried to account for how everyone would "feel" about [insert decision], they would never do anything.