345 réponses à ce sujet

[Pixieking]

Phoenixblight wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Was the demo out before the SE offer finished?

No.

How much pre-publicity for the PC version specifically was out?

Not much, trust me. Oh, sure there were pics and vids. But they were mostly console version.

Also, I always waited for the reviews back then, so no, no grudge.

Thats the thing about preordering you generally don't know enough about the game but you could have easily preordered the game wait while info comes out or play the demo. If you don't like what you are playing or reading *shock* You can cancel your preorder. I know its a hard concept, giving up something you paid nothing for. 

My point was that I can see how some people will feel suckered with the SE. Sure, they can cancel the pre-order, but what reviews are there to say if it's any good in the first place? They trust the PC Gamer exclusive and not cancel, and if it's a case of PC Gamer being biased and it's a rubbish game then the consumer feels conned. Or, they cancel the pre-order, wait for reviews, and then have to pay out for the DLC. Either way, it's just bad marketing.

[Pixieking]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Um. He's the consumer. You may not care, but he has the right to complain.

Ah yes "right to complain"

Complain about what that he wasnt self -aware enough or had enough gumption to fid out specifically what he was buying, and what monetary value he associated with such items?

No thanks, sure he has a right to complain, but it falls on majorly deaf ears due to a complete lack of any sort of due diligence on his/her part. Two distinctive and separate issues.

Really? Oddly enough, I still don't know what exactly is in the SE. This is because 1) I don't keep track of the forums 24/7, 2) I don't wish to be spoilered about a game that I'll probably buy and 3) There was no official announcement of what was in the SE. That's right, I was tracking the front page of the DA2 site up to the end of the offer, and the only that that I knew was included was "$20 dollars of free stuff, including a character".

Now, it may be you'll tell me that it was announced on X page, or Y site. But it wasn't fully announced on the front page.

All of it was available on the "game info" section of the site

It included "in game digital armory (5 items), Soundtrack, and character *Vrael".........

I knew exactly what was in it when I pre-ordered Jan 8.

1) personal choice, 2) personal choice, 3)Official announcement by who and to who?

Hah. Then I would say their website needs to be changed. I never saw that section. *shrugs*

Modifié par Emoking, 16 février 2011 - 04:22 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Finis Valorum wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Finis Valorum wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Finis Valorum wrote...

halokitty wrote...

I am actually quite grateful to Bioware for the simplicity of the Signature Edition.

In this instance, Bioware is nice enough to give me unique stuff I will actually use in the game I'm playing for FREE! Sure I don't end up with a gold-plated and individually numbered Anders earring (Available in right-ear version or the left-ear "chase" variant) or a vial of real Darkspawn blood, but that's okay, they'd just end up forgotten alongside Big Daddy anyway.

Your milealage may vary as they say.
Since I won't use Sebastian (unless he turns out to be a LI for MHawke after all) and the soundtrack really doesn't interest me all that much and considering the Signature edition has cost me about $15 more in shipping and handling I've just ended up paying about $3 per item for five "unique" in game items.
So yes I do feel just a bit foolish right now.

No one cares about your own personal microeconomic plight

I don't care all that much about the tiny amount of money either, it's the principle of the thing. Next time I just want more information about the DLC companion up front so I can actually make an informed decision.
Since that isn't likely to happen from now on I'm only going to buy collectors editions with actual physical bonuses I know about from the get go.

If you needed more information you could have waited for more information, there is always a risk-reward value attatched with a preorder.......dont pretend you were sold some bill of goods

Right... the kind of more information they only publish after the cut off date.
And in order to properly do due dilligence research you actually need legally obtainable information if companies, rights holders or the government either do not make this information legally available or frustrate your every attempt "due dilligence" is worthless.

They gave the information well before the cut off date of specifically what was included in the SE, It may not have been enough information to your personal liking, but thats where you made the choice to committ dollars anyway.

You had every opportunity 1) not to buy, 2) cancel [still do by the way] at no cost , or 3) call, email or use other means of communication to contact EA/Bioware and ask for more specifics

[Queen Nothing]

I honestly think it was a decent idea. For fans such as myself, I paid the same price I was going to pay - just earlier - and got some added goodies because of it. And yes, my order is still valid.

Modifié par Kusho, 16 février 2011 - 04:27 .

[Phoenixblight]

Emoking wrote...



Really? Oddly enough, I still don't know what exactly is in the SE. This is because 1) I don't keep track of the forums 24/7, 2) I don't wish to be spoilered about a game that I'll probably buy and 3) There was no official announcement of what was in the SE. That's right, I was tracking the front page of the DA2 site up to the end of the offer, and the only that that I knew was included was "$20 dollars of free stuff, including a character".

Now, it may be you'll tell me that it was announced on X page, or Y site. But it wasn't fully announced on the front page.

*cough*October 2010 *cough*

Modifié par Phoenixblight, 16 février 2011 - 04:26 .

[Giltspur]

I think it was a bit of a marketing fail.  But I don't think it violates any business ethics.  (Disclosure: I pre-ordered the Signature Edition--so I don't feel the sting of having missed it.)

Why was it a minor marketing fail?

Limited Time Offer: Pre-Order Dragon Age II Before January 11, 2011* and automatically get upgraded to the Bioware Signature Edition.

*Dragon Age II Bioware Signature Edition not available after January 11, 2011.

So to EA/Bio's credit, they did tell you that it wouldn't be available after January 11, 2011.  But they did it with an asterisk.  And if you were looking at an embedded image on a news site you might not even see it.  And without having read the asterisk the natural assumption is that the Signature edition will be available at no extra cost before January 11 and go up in price afterwards.  At any rate, something like "Will no longer be available...at all" shouldn't be in an asterisk.  It should be in the headline.

And the ambiguity with Steam was a bit of a fail too.  In the past, CE's were always up for pre-order via conventional retailers sooner.  But Steam eventual would always get some kind of deluxe version to sell.  But that didn't happen this time.

So I think they could have worded things better than they did.

But they didn't do anything wrong.  They stated their intentions at the outset--just not as obviously and clearly as they should have.  I don't think there's any deceit here.  There's no point in that.  They want you to pre-order.  Just some suboptimal communication.

Modifié par Giltspur, 16 février 2011 - 04:41 .

[Pixieking]

"additional downloadable items."? What are they?



Fair fair. I wasn't paying attention to the games media. *shrugs* It's not like I care about the SE anyways. *cough* Devil's Advocate *cough*

[TheRevanchist]

For goodness sake...I think it's the most generous offer I've ever seen from ANY developer. $20 worth of stuff for no extra charge? PFFT...hellz yea man, I woulda paid the same amount for LESS if I waited...way to go BIoware!

Modifié par kylecouch, 16 février 2011 - 04:38 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Emoking wrote...

"additional downloadable items."? What are they?

Fair fair. I wasn't paying attention to the games media. *shrugs* It's not like I care about the SE anyways. *cough* Devil's Advocate *cough*

Fair enough fair enough

Apostates Courage, Seekers Bulwark, Might of Sten, Adder of Antiva, and a ring of some sort, all on the same page.

The Character was hidden until after Jan 11 I believe, but could be mistaken about that, in any case A character adds greater value than almost any other CE/SE item I can think of.

Anyway while I would agree 2 months early is a fair amount of time away from release, would it be any different if the cut off were today?

[Note I would be outraged if my SE was cancelled by my place of purchase and could understand those outrages}

[hawat333]

Apparently not.

[Cloaking_Thane]

kylecouch wrote...

For goodness sake...I think it's the most generous offer I've ever seen from ANY developer. $20 worth of stuff for no extra charge? PFFT...hellz yea man, I woulda paid the same amount for LESS if I waited...way to go BIoware!

True this is a first, I think it may be the last free one, but I doubt that it will be the last cut off date at all, as it gives them a greater expectation of how many copies to produce.

Who knows though

[Cloaking_Thane]

Giltspur wrote...

I think it was a bit of a marketing fail.  But I don't think it violates any business ethics.  (Disclosure: I pre-ordered the Signature Edition--so I don't feel the sting of having missed it.)

Why was it a minor marketing fail?

Limited Time Offer: Pre-Order Dragon Age II Before January 11, 2011* and automatically get upgraded to the Bioware Signature Edition.

*Dragon Age II Bioware Signature Edition not available after January 11, 2011.

So to EA/Bio's credit, they did tell you that it wouldn't be available after January 11, 2011.  But they did it with an asterisk.  And if you were looking at an embedded image on a news site you might not even see it.  And without having read the asterisk the natural assumption is that the Signature edition will be available at no extra cost before January 11 and go up in price afterwards.  At any rate, something like "Will no longer be available...at all" shouldn't be in an asterisk.  It should be in the headline.

And the ambiguity with Steam was a bit of a fail too.  In the past, CE's were always up for pre-order via conventional retailers sooner.  But Steam eventual would always get some kind of deluxe version to sell.  But that didn't happen this time.

So I think they could have worded things better than they did.

But they didn't do anything wrong.  They stated their intentions at the outset--just not as obviously and clearly as they should have.  I don't think there's any deceit here.  There's no point in that.  They want you to pre-order.  Just some suboptimal communication.

Well stated, and agree, when I initially read it I thought it would be available for $70 or so until release date, but It looks like they've gone this route and then straight to DLC which in reality would give the consumer more options about what to purchase, but some will lack that foresight

[milena87]

I think it was a good idea, it's basically just an evolution of EA's Project Ten Dollar and it's a nice bonus to those who decided to trust Bioware.

Now, if only they could stop making a gazillion of different bonus items for different retailer/games on facebook I'd be happier

[Finis Valorum]

[/quote]

They gave the information well before the cut off date of specifically what was included in the SE, It may not have been enough information to your personal liking, but thats where you made the choice to committ dollars anyway.

You had every opportunity 1) not to buy, 2) cancel [still do by the way] at no cost , or 3) call, email or use other means of communication to contact EA/Bioware and ask for more specifics
[/quote]


About the information they claimed it would be content with an approximate value of $20 indeed including the character. However for me at least that is almost certainly going to be proven false since with what I know now the character is most likely going to be worthless to me,unless he does turn out to be an Li, which as you will note is more information that is not yet legally obtainable.
If I had paid anything extra specifically for this content then, yes, I would most likely have contacted EA and asked them for the approximate value of the character in rebates.

1) I actually want the game it's just the SE and their sleazy marketing tactics (even if the SE content itself was a free upgrade) that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

2) I can and I probably will if they release the final tidbit of information about the bonus character I need in time for me to do so.

3) About your oh...so insightful point number 3, usually you don't get any kind of cooperation from big business or the government on that front unless you bring out the heavy artillery like court orders and subpoena's which for one license of a video game is rather pointless.

So in short I feel dissapointed and don't much care for Bioware EA's marketing department and I'm definately going to be leery about preordering from them again unless they significantly improve the quality of the information they provide about their offers.

Modifié par Finis Valorum, 16 février 2011 - 05:35 .

[Noviere]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

The Character was hidden until after Jan 11 I believe, but could be mistaken about that, in any case A character adds greater value than almost any other CE/SE item I can think of.

I just did a quick search on Google and it looks like The Exiled Prince was announced(with the video) on January 7th.

Modifié par Noviere, 16 février 2011 - 05:33 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

[quote]Finis Valorum wrote...


[/quote]

They gave the information well before the cut off date of specifically what was included in the SE, It may not have been enough information to your personal liking, but thats where you made the choice to committ dollars anyway.

You had every opportunity 1) not to buy, 2) cancel [still do by the way] at no cost , or 3) call, email or use other means of communication to contact EA/Bioware and ask for more specifics
[/quote]


About the information they claimed it would be content with an approximate value of $20 indeed including the character. However for me at least that is almost certainly going to be proven false since with what I know now the character is most likely going to be worthless to me,unless he does turn out to be an Li, which as you will note is more information that is not yet legally obtainable.
If I had paid anything extra specifically for this content then, yes, I would most likely have contacted EA and asked them for the approximate value of the character in rebates.

1) I actually want the game it's just the SE and their sleazy marketing tactics (even if the SE content itself was a free upgrade) that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

2) I can and I probably will if they release the final tidbit of information about the bonus character I need in time for me to do so.

3) About your oh...so insightful point number 3, usually you don't get any kind of cooperation from big business or the government on that front unless you bring out the heavy artillery like court orders and subpoena's which for one license of a video game is rather pointless.

So in short I feel dissapointed and don't much care for Bioware EA's marketing department and I'm definately going to be leery about preordering from them again unless they significantly improve their information about their offers.



[/quote]

Again, all personal choice. Your value of Vael may be $0, mine may be $12, the market price is $7. Digital armory will be in the neighborhood of 160 MS points i would presume ($2) and I guess they value the soundtrack at roughly $10.

Sure you can chide the system and "blame the man" as it were, but not everything is top secret government infromation that requires court orders, talk about hyperbole.

also IIRC Vael trailer was launched ever so slightly before Jan 11, I could be mistaken on this last point however

[the_one_54321]

I would just like to point out that advertisers very often give all the honest information available on very bad deals and still always paint them with the most favorable language possible. Providing all the info doesn't mean the deal is pitched fairly.

[Cloaking_Thane]

the_one_54321 wrote...

I would just like to point out that advertisers very often give all the honest information available on very bad deals and still always paint them with the most favorable language possible. Providing all the info doesn't mean the deal is pitched fairly.

It's your job to cut through the bs and get to the crux of it, if you (and possibly hundred/thousands) take real exception to it there is always recourse in the judicial system.

Many cases have been won for false advertisement, similarly even more cases have been lost.

Generally the company is not going to hold your hand when making a purchase....

I digress

[the_one_54321]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
I would just like to point out that advertisers very often give all the honest information available on very bad deals and still always paint them with the most favorable language possible. Providing all the info doesn't mean the deal is pitched fairly.

It's your job to cut through the bs and get to the crux of it, if you (and possibly hundred/thousands) take real exception to it there is always recourse in the judicial system.

Many cases have been won for false advertisement, similarly even more cases have been lost.

Generally the company is not going to hold your hand when making a purchase....

I digress

Yeah, that's all fair and true. But, the consumer would, in general, benefit from being a sceptic first and a fan second. With any purchase.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 16 février 2011 - 05:45 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Noviere wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

The Character was hidden until after Jan 11 I believe, but could be mistaken about that, in any case A character adds greater value than almost any other CE/SE item I can think of.

I just did a quick search on Google and it looks like The Exiled Prince was announced(with the video) on January 7th.

Well there you go, thank you!

So you did indeed have all the information about the SE before Jan 11 if you were actively seeking it as you suggest you have Fenis.

The LI's have been revealed as well as of Monday Feb 14, so still ample time for you to cancel

Modifié par Cloaking_Thane, 16 février 2011 - 05:47 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
I would just like to point out that advertisers very often give all the honest information available on very bad deals and still always paint them with the most favorable language possible. Providing all the info doesn't mean the deal is pitched fairly.

It's your job to cut through the bs and get to the crux of it, if you (and possibly hundred/thousands) take real exception to it there is always recourse in the judicial system.

Many cases have been won for false advertisement, similarly even more cases have been lost.

Generally the company is not going to hold your hand when making a purchase....

I digress

Yeah, that's all fair and true. But, the consumer would, in general, benefit from being a sceptic first and a fan second. With any purchase.

Naturally, but what I'm pointing at here is you were never really mislead about anything in this case at all.....

[Felene]

Sir Isaac of Clarke is marketing decision. Clearly EA's idea, cross game developer also letting people who play different games interest in another game.

Signature Edition is for fan appreciation. Way early announcement, charge the same price as regular edition, I see minimum marketing decision here.

[the_one_54321]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...
Naturally, but what I'm pointing at here is you were never really mislead about anything in this case at all.....

Well I have to dissagree with that. I believe you can be given all accurate information and still be misslead by the language and tone used to present it.

[Arthur Cousland]

I'm on here at least a few times a week and I found out a week or two in advance when I went to the DA2 site. It was on the front page, and it did say that you needed to pre-order before Jan 11th.

If the bonus items for DA2 are anything like what Origins had, then you'll be quickly selling the items anyway once DA2 dlc comes out. This isn't end-game quality equipment that you'll be missing out on, and the important stuff like Sebastian, the mirror and the mabari will all be available for download. If you missed out on the SE, it shouldn't feel like the end of the world.

Hopefully, in the future Bioware doesn't continue to give exclusive items to various retailers, which makes it impossible for people to get everything without buying multiple copies of the game. That part is the only thing that slightly annoys me.

I got the regular retail version of Origins and was happy with it.  Besides missing out on a tome or two, I hardly felt like I missed out by not getting the collectors edition of Origins.

Modifié par Arthur Cousland, 16 février 2011 - 05:51 .