345 réponses à ce sujet

[Dazaster Dellus]

Not having it in stock is a stupid reason?! I wonder what your idea of a good reason is then. Bioware and all companies that carry the signature edition have said it time and time again. Preorder before January 11 to get it. If people missed it or reserved it after that date than oh well. Sucks to be them.



That age old saying about how people people will complain about anything is 100% true. People get a ton of free stuff and they complain about it. People who miss out on free stuff because of their own stupidity or laziness complain about it. People complaining about optional Issac armor(which some of those same people still bought anyways). People complaining about Female Hawke not being the center of attention. People complaining about all romanceable characters not being bi. People complaining about complaing.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Autolycus wrote...

has the Paradigm shifted slightly, certainly, but to be honest at this point in time if you arent confident in the quality of Bioware games I would question why you have a forum account....and if your a fan of the RPG genre then its well known that bioware are one of the few quality game makers left/around...

I'll assume your were not actually trying to be condescending there, so I will reply politely. I loved DA:O, and I love Mass Effect (thank god that has a different dev team), and there is DLC i have purchased for both games.
Thus, I have amforum account (or maybe that was actually too simplstic in it's logic for you to understand?)....I have been a fan of RPG's both paper and CRPG since the original DnD....but opinions change...
And from what I have seen so far of DA2, I'm (personally) not impressed with the direction it's going in. Also, all this marketing, hundreds of different bonuses, retailers (in my country) not being told about things and pre-order incentives does not sit well with me. Look at it however you like, but if there is a reward, likewise their 'is' a punishment (as another poster failed to comprehend).
Just because I 'choose' to get more information first before buying something, why should I be 'punished' or perhaps better better worded...penalised?

As for my faith in Bioware, if it was not for ME2, I actually do not think right now I would have any faith in their ability to create a 'great' game anymore (but thats my political argument alone with their owners)...any idiot can see that as a company, their standards have slipped considerably since EA bought them. Anyone who can not see that, must be wearing blinkers.
Now yes, most of my comments are purely my 'opinions' and I appreciate that. Bioware could have had my money almost instantly regardless of the me even 'knowing' what the game was about once upon a time, but unfortunately, those times have long passed as like many a company, they are no longer what they were. I also accept thats just a part of life and the world we live in.

I also accept I am in the minority regarding DA2, and thats fine too.

I wasnt being condesceding or trying to be, but mate you just described to me that you are not confident in Bioware at all, hence your hesitation to put down the money....

[the_one_54321]

JrayM16 wrote...
But the "we don't know for sure" argument works just as well in support of Bioware's line being true as it does against.  It's the Argument from Ignorance logical fallacy, a fallacy in this case because it does not prove either side or resolve the argument in any way.

Indeed. You may have missed it because it was in another thread that got locked, but I've been saying that this is all conjectural. There is no "proof" one way or the other. But conjectural support is not entirely meaningless. In fact it can be quite meaningful when applied properly in a discussion.

[JohnCena94]

Pre order with gamestop fools lol I hate to sound mean but honestly some sites I looked at that offered the deal looked sketchy and I wouldn't buy anything from them to begin with.

[crimzontearz]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...
Crimson......its the line because its true in this case

my point is we do not know for sure, we can only go on faith

Well, in this case a bioware employee (Woo) came an told us re:Vael, but I suppose its generally advisable to always be skeptical.

But the broad fundamentals of the processes of making a game are fairly well known (Design, Develop, Complete, QA, Gold, etc)

yes but he is a Bioware eployee, even if the "line" was a lie he could not just say so here. Again I like Bioware and I want to believe them....it's just not always easy to

[JrayM16]

crimzontearz wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...
Crimson......its the line because its true in this case

my point is we do not know for sure, we can only go on faith

Well, in this case a bioware employee (Woo) came an told us re:Vael, but I suppose its generally advisable to always be skeptical.

But the broad fundamentals of the processes of making a game are fairly well known (Design, Develop, Complete, QA, Gold, etc)

yes but he is a Bioware eployee, even if the "line" was a lie he could not just say so here. Again I like Bioware and I want to believe them....it's just not always easy to

But there is no compelling evidence that it was a lie.  Content has been cut due to lack of time since the dawn of gaming.  Day-1 dlc is a recent devlelopment.  There is some reason to think that they are telling the truth in this case.

[Black_Warden]

Autolycus wrote...

Look at it however you like, but if there is a reward, likewise their 'is' a punishment (as another poster failed to comprehend).
Just because I 'choose' to get more information first before buying something, why should I be 'punished' or perhaps better better worded...penalised?

1) Many people pre-odered the game early on, based solely on faith.

2) Bioware had a special offer available to reward those who pre-ordered early

you do not fall under the category of number 1, so why on earth should you benefit from number 2?

there was literally nothin stopping you from pre-ordering the SE, taking in new info as it is released, playing the demo, deciding you don't like the direction the game has taken, and cancelling your order at no loss.

The_One has stated he isn't buying the game at launch due to issues he has with how the game is being sold, etc. that is his right, and i respect him for it. you have said you're not buying it because you wanted to wait for more info and are being "punished" as a result. as i have just outlined a *risk-free* way that you could have waited for said info while still receiving the SE and other pre-order bonuses (should you decide to get the game after all), you have no real grounds to complain about being "punished" or "penalised" as it is through fault of no one but yourself that you will not receive these promotional offers.

Modifié par Black_Warden, 16 février 2011 - 09:08 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Autolycus wrote...

Of course I am penalised (if I do eventually buy it). I am not after a 'better deal', I just want more information before I spend any money.

There is a distinct difference there.

and...

I wasnt being condesceding or trying to be, but mate you just described to me that you are not confident in Bioware at all, hence your hesitation to put down the money....

K fair enough, I just read it that way at first, so apologies.  And yes I did say I'm not confident.  Given the way the company has acted and operated since DA:O was released, is that not understandable.  Same with religion, I am not so easily blinded and gullible as to believe everything they say.

Lets take a 'real world' case example shall we?  Toyota, the worlds biggest car maker, even more impressive considering how long they have been going for......had a majot catastrophe with ONE model of car.....their reputation is now in tatters throughout the world....

Would you go and pre-order a new car model with minimal information about it?  Unlikely I would imagine.

So to go back to the point in question, why should someone (me, you, whoever) be penalised, or miss out on something (possibly  - unless there will be another UE), just because their 'faith' and 'trust' has been rocked slightly, and they wish to be better informed regarding the product they are thinking of purchasing?

There is an underlying premise we are missing here that, you may cancel your preorder at any time.

You could have pre-ordered OCT 14 2010*(whenever the actual date was) at no cost to you mind you, and up until March 7, 2011,11:59PM (theoretically) cancelled said game.

At that point you not only have the benefit of Previews, videos, etc, you have a Demo where you can test said game yourself and make your decision based off that, not even relying on others opinion.

So while appreciate your plight I think you would have all the info you needed to make an informed decision and moreover wouldnt have had to spend a dime

[JrayM16]

Autolycus wrote...

Black_warden...
If you read 'all' my posts, you would already know that currently I am also not buying the game. For different reasons to the_one entirely.
So, at this moment in time, any and all pre-order bonuses, quite frankly, mean jack to me. The point I was making (similar to the_one), is that just because someone doesnt blindly trust a game company and pre-order their game with pretty much no information, why should they miss out just because they wish to make a more informed decision once the game is out?

It is a shady business model (that I agree with the_one) and personally I feel thats because the game is going to disappoint a lot of peoploe, but thats another subject/thread.
As has been said before, if the game is so bloody marvelous, there is no need for 'incentives' is there by pre-order?
Again, personally, right now, it's neither here nor there to me. But the 'principal' is something that irks me in general.

I would argue that it's not shady business simply cause of the ability to cancel one's preorder without loss.  If somone is considering not buying the game then they must be considering buying the game as well.  Just more incentives.

And besides, the real reason for these incentives is to hurt used game sales, which have been annoying publisher for a while now.  If a person preorders and gets a game, that is a game they will not be buying a used copy of.  That's why there's bonuses for just buying new games as well.  The idea that it's to hoodwink people into buying the game is not sound.  It's to fight used game sales, plain and simple.

[Ensgnblack]

Worst marketing idea? Id say no since the game went gold already.



Didnt get it? Order got screwed up by a third party site? Hardly BW's fault.

[Black_Warden]

Autolycus wrote...

Black_warden...
If you read 'all' my posts, you would already know that currently I am also not buying the game. For different reasons to the_one entirely.
So, at this moment in time, any and all pre-order bonuses, quite frankly, mean jack to me. The point I was making (similar to the_one), is that just because someone doesnt blindly trust a game company and pre-order their game with pretty much no information, why should they miss out just because they wish to make a more informed decision once the game is out?

It is a shady business model (that I agree with the_one) and personally I feel thats because the game is going to disappoint a lot of peoploe, but thats another subject/thread.
As has been said before, if the game is so bloody marvelous, there is no need for 'incentives' is there by pre-order?
Again, personally, right now, it's neither here nor there to me. But the 'principal' is something that irks me in general.

I was saying that your reasons for not buying are different from The_one's.

anyway, i did miss that you are arguing in general against the pre-order, and not because it was your personal issue. i apologize for that.

however, my point still stands, there is nothing to prevent a person from pre-ordering, and then cancelling their orders even days before release if they feel the game is not something they will enjoy. If an individual chooses not to take advantage of that opportunity, they have no grounds to complain that they are being slighted by not receiving the benefits of the offer, as it is their own fault.

From the Bioware/EA/[insert developer] standpoint, pre-orders serve as an early indicator as to the success of a game, helping them to judge what funding to put into the franchise (among other things). To that end, 'bonus' incentives encourage more people to pre-order in general, with the added bonus of convincing some to buy new instead of used so that they get the "extra swag."

From a consumer perspective, Pre-ordering and it's associated incentives allow a commitment free means of gettin a little extra bang for our back, with the added bonus of ensuring the collector-minded customers can secure their respective special editions. those who chose not to pre-order but buy the game at or after launch still get a complete game (hopefully, i'll admit some companies are shadier in this regard than others, however i've had no experience to indicate bioware is such a company).

[JrayM16]

Autolycus wrote...

What you are both failing to understand is, pre-ordered or not, is ina way irrelevent.
There are things with DA2 I am very unsure of, things I 'personally' do not like etc etc etc, so I will not buy it until there is more information available, actual real customer reviews and I can then make a 'more' informed decision.
So why would I pre-order something that I wish to wait until is out, before making a decision?

But I do understand what you're both saying, I could pre-order, have all bonuses and be a happy bunny. But thats dependent on me just trusting a few biased magazine reviews, and a titbit of info on here, along with as has been discussed, blind faith in Bioware.
Again, from what I have seen of DA2 so far, I'm turned off, so wish to wait for more information. so again, why is that wrong?

Well, if you are still considering buying the game, then it is a fairly sound proposition.  And reviews are biased by their nature as they are subjectve opinions.  In that sense, every piece of information you could get on DA2 pre and psot launch is biased, whether it be from Bioware a a poster here. 

I didn't preorder, but I don't feel I am getting penalized for it. 

[crimzontearz]

JrayM16 wrote...
But there is no compelling evidence that it was a lie.  Content has been cut due to lack of time since the dawn of gaming.  Day-1 dlc is a recent devlelopment.  There is some reason to think that they are telling the truth in this case.

there is no evidence because we are on the outside and because it is not in EA's interest to let this kinf of evidence out.


still, not the point. Day one dlc blurs the lines because budgets are thrown in the mix and a lot of these characters and contents were originally made with the main game's budget but they get a return of investment from a dlc venue. Illegal...no, Ethical....depends on who you ask to

[Lethys1]

It has to do exclusively with the quality of a retailer and if they can't get their act together than the consumers get screwed.  Order on Amazon or something next time.

Certainly not bad marketing though.  Completely wrong word.

[DanteGunZ]

You had to preorder the game before January 11th (if I'm not mistaken) that means you had the entire time it has been in development (GameStop lets you preorder a year or so before the game is even out) to put $5 smackers down on it.

It is a nice bonus to those of us that chose to support Bioware with our cash early, showing the ever needed support for the game. I don't see a problem with it at all, I hardly ever preorder games, save for the few I actually care for and luckily in this case it ended up with a nice little bonus for myself.

Modifié par DanteGunZ, 16 février 2011 - 09:35 .

[Black_Warden]

Ensgnblack wrote...

Worst marketing idea? Id say no since the game went gold already.

I'm.... not sure you know what "going gold" means in video game context, as it has nothing to do with marketing.

Autolycus wrote...

What you are both failing to understand is, pre-ordered or not, is ina way irrelevent.
There are things with DA2 I am very unsure of, things I 'personally' do not like etc etc etc, so I will not buy it until there is more information available, actual real customer reviews and I can then make a 'more' informed decision.
So why would I pre-order something that I wish to wait until is out, before making a decision?

But I do understand what you're both saying, I could pre-order, have all bonuses and be a happy bunny. But thats dependent on me just trusting a few biased magazine reviews, and a titbit of info on here, along with as has been discussed, blind faith in Bioware.
Again, from what I have seen of DA2 so far, I'm turned off, so wish to wait for more information. so again, why is that wrong?

If you wish to wait until the game is out, by all means that is your right. what i'm saying is

The pre-order bonuses/incentives are a reward for a specific behavior. if you do not exhibit said behavior, you do not receive the rewards for it. plain and simple, nothing unfair or shady about that in my opinion.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Autolycus wrote...

What you are both failing to understand is, pre-ordered or not, is ina way irrelevent.
There are things with DA2 I am very unsure of, things I 'personally' do not like etc etc etc, so I will not buy it until there is more information available, actual real customer reviews and I can then make a 'more' informed decision.
So why would I pre-order something that I wish to wait until is out, before making a decision?

But I do understand what you're both saying, I could pre-order, have all bonuses and be a happy bunny. But thats dependent on me just trusting a few biased magazine reviews, and a titbit of info on here, along with as has been discussed, blind faith in Bioware.
Again, from what I have seen of DA2 so far, I'm turned off, so wish to wait for more information. so again, why is that wrong?

fair enough, but what we do know is that there is a demo for this game out next tuesday.

Granted we did not know before Jan 11.

But again you are making the choice to wait for even more time, Deals expire, deals change, if we walk into a mall tomorrow then walk in two weeks from now there will be different deals/sales etc.

Dont want 30% off that shirt, wait a few months til its on clearance for 60%.

There is a time/opportunity, window. Conversely to your logic, why should you be rewarded with additional content for waiting...say 2 months....and then only MAYBE buy the game depending on your thoughts...........what incentive does Bioware have in that case to provide you with an Extra charater, on top of the in game Emporium and Mabari Warhound?

Because the equivalent of Shale = Emporium and Warhound, buy game new get this (to discourage used sales)

Vrael is the equivalent of a witch hunt say, finished early.

[JrayM16]

crimzontearz wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...
But there is no compelling evidence that it was a lie.  Content has been cut due to lack of time since the dawn of gaming.  Day-1 dlc is a recent devlelopment.  There is some reason to think that they are telling the truth in this case.

there is no evidence because we are on the outside and because it is not in EA's interest to let this kinf of evidence out.


still, not the point. Day one dlc blurs the lines because budgets are thrown in the mix and a lot of these characters and contents were originally made with the main game's budget but they get a return of investment from a dlc venue. Illegal...no, Ethical....depends on who you ask to

Let's look at the history of cut content.  KOTOR 1 & 2 cut entire PLANETS cause they couldn't be finished in time for release.  In the past, all of this content was lost unless some modders tried to restore it in some fashion.  Even more stuff is cut at the conceptual level because devs know that they will not have enough time.  It is perfectly reasonable to think that content still gets cut all the time.  Now thoug, if the content is good, there is a way we can play it, albeit for a modest investment.  I'd prefer that over stuff like Sebastian being lost forever.

[Morroian]

Autolycus wrote...
And from what I have seen so far of DA2, I'm (personally) not impressed with the direction it's going in. Also, all this marketing, hundreds of different bonuses, retailers (in my country) not being told about things and pre-order incentives does not sit well with me. Look at it however you like, but if there is a reward, likewise their 'is' a punishment (as another poster failed to comprehend). Just because I 'choose' to get more information first before buying something, why should I be 'punished' or perhaps better better worded...penalised?
As for my faith in Bioware, if it was not for ME2, I actually do not think right now I would have any faith in their ability to create a 'great' game anymore (but thats my political argument alone with their owners)...any idiot can see that as a company, their standards have slipped considerably since EA bought them. Anyone who can not see that, must be wearing blinkers.

So you liked ME 2 and DA2 is adopting some of the features of ME2 yet you don't like the direction of the game. That doesn't follow.

Modifié par Morroian, 16 février 2011 - 09:57 .

[crimzontearz]

and that's why the argument is futile. It's a very subjective subject.

[JrayM16]

I still think the reward/punishment thing is a glass half-full/half-empty argument. It just depends on whether or not you look at it as if you were entitled to the preorder content in the first place.



And if for some reason it turns out that Bioware was indeed taking content out to distribute as preorder items when that stuff coul've easily been ready for launch, thn I would flip opinions, cause that WOULD be shady.



But as it stands now, incentivizing is not shady. It's a common business tactic that doesn't HURT the consumer.

[Stanley Woo]

Autolycus wrote...
There are things with DA2 I am very unsure of, things I 'personally' do not like etc etc etc, so I will not buy it until there is more information available, actual real customer reviews and I can then make a 'more' informed decision.
So why would I pre-order something that I wish to wait until is out, before making a decision?

Why would/should we extend the offer past the deadline date just to satisfy your subjective need to be more informed? Jeopardy doesn't wait until you've consulted an encyclopedia or called your friends before answering the Final Jeopardy question. It has a very definite start and end period, during which you make your choice. A store is under no obligation to keep the tills open for you past their operating hours. Businesses are not obligated to honour coupons past the stated expiry date.

But I do understand what you're both saying, I could pre-order, have all bonuses and be a happy bunny. But thats dependent on me just trusting a few biased magazine reviews, and a titbit of info on here, along with as has been discussed, blind faith in Bioware.
Again, from what I have seen of DA2 so far, I'm turned off, so wish to wait for more information. so again, why is that wrong?

it's not wrong. but by the same token, you could hem and haw all you like and wait for the information you require. but the limited time special offer will expire in the process. When do you take responsibility for choosing not to take advantage of the deal while it's being offered?