19 réponses à ce sujet

[lastpatriot]

For starters, the point of this thread is to open up a comparison discussion between both styles of play and what the advantages/disadvantages are for each.  As I for one am not an expert, I’ll leave the detailed analysis up to
those of you who are.  For me, I have played both classes (to some extent) though I have spent much of my time as a Vanguard and have learned that though the Vanguard is insanely fun once you get into a solid rhythm, there are some serious limitations to the class as well.  For that reason, I have been trying to build a modification from another class to make them a shotgun-wielding death machine.  With that in mind, here
are my thoughts thus far but really, I would like to see what you all think.

Infiltrator CQC

With using Reave or Neural Shock as a bonus power, the class appears to have some nice tricks where you can stealth, run up to a target, and then kill it before they have any idea you are there.  The problem is that the class has little defensive ability so I found I became more dependent on my CC ability or that of the group to avoid being overrun.  The other nice skill is that for those heavy targets off in the distance, you can always stealth and snipe them.  Basically, it appears that you have attack skills for any range on the battlefield.  However, over time, this CQC build begins to feel somewhat “slow” and not all that heroic.  Granted, you do have the ability to think out your attacks more and be more tactical, it doesn’t have that exciting, heart-pounding feel of crushing
your enemy.



Sentinel CQC

To me, (and I’ve not played it much at all) the class almost seams built for running through a mob of targets and just mowing them down with a few shotgun blasts and melee strikes.  The explosive shields combined with either energy drain or warp ammo for a bonus ability really feel to compliment the desire to almost feel invincible.  Granted, you lose that ability to stealth/reset the combat but with your biotic abilities combined with tech
armor, I kind of felt less concerned about my position on the battlefield and was more focused on which target to kill next.  Though this CQC style doesn’t appear to get much focus on the forums, I am somewhat impressed on how devastating/balanced this class build can be.
 


Well, there is my opinion (for what it’s worth).  What do you all think?

Modifié par lastpatriot, 16 février 2011 - 01:44 .

[Kronner]

The main difference is that Sentinel is a much tougher class, so it is also more forgiving.
When it comes to CQC, Infiltrator can't match Sentinel's blend of toughness, forgiveness, and in the end effectiveness. Sentinel with Assault Armor is arguably the most powerful build in the game. Infiltrator gives you Sniper Rifle training (so basically you get a Viper in addition to your Shotgun), but if your focus is close quarters combat, Sentinel is a far better choice imho.

Modifié par Kronner, 16 février 2011 - 02:06 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Yeah, Sentinel is definitely the better CQC class, but they can't have the Viper and a shotgun like the Infiltrator. They can use the Viper to soften enemies before cloaking and going in with a shotgun.

[lastpatriot]

Well if you wanted, you can always alter the Cini so the Sentinel can use the Widow as well.

[thisisme8]

The difference in my opinion is not which class is more effective up close, but actually how each class approaches the battlefield.

The Sentinel's focus is very direct.  Shepard walks right in with guns and powers blazing while depending on Tech Armor to soak up the initial burst.

The Infiltrator focuses on using stealth to flank enemies, picking them off in a deliberate sequence.

While they can be compared to each other as Close Quarters combatants, they are essentially very different in execution.  I guess you can say the feeling you get after a hard won fight is different.  The Sentinel says, "damn I'm a tough sunofa****."  The Infiltrator says, "I love it when a plan comes together."

Edit/Note:  And neither need the shotgun.  Sentinel works fine with the Firestorm (surprisingly), and the Infiltrator is still a beast with just an SMG (although the AR is better for armor).

Modifié par thisisme8, 16 février 2011 - 07:07 .

[SpezXVII]

As previously stated, the Sentinel is basically a direct-attack, forgiving class. The Infiltrator has to rely on tactics and frequently flank their enemies. The Infiltrator is all about positioning. Personally, I enjoy the Infiltrator more since I feel it requires more skill on my part and I'm not just spamming Assault Armor.

[lastpatriot]

thisisme8 wrote...

While they can be compared to each other as Close Quarters combatants, they are essentially very different in execution.  I guess you can say the feeling you get after a hard won fight is different.  The Sentinel says, "damn I'm a tough sunofa****."  The Infiltrator says, "I love it when a plan comes together."

That is probably the best perspectives I've heard yet on the differences between the two classes.  I tend to think of the infiltrator as the guy that the enemy never really knows is even out there until it's too late.  Once they see him/her, the battle is already over.  For the sentinel, he/she just appears to be that who isn't concerned about image, detailed attack plans, or tactical knowledge of the enemy.  All he/she wants is to kill every living threat out there in the quickest, most aggressive method possible.

[thisisme8]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Assault Sentinel is too simple & straightforward. It is also ridiculous from an RP perspective: "I want my shiny armor to break. WTF?" It's much more interesting to play other Sentinels, like thisisme's Deep Cryo/Heavy Throw Sentinel:
www.youtube.com/watch

Or, if you like Warp Bombs, Sentinel can Warp Bomb more often than Adept:
www.youtube.com/watch

Shotgun Infiltrator is fun and powerful, but I always feel the Sniper time slowdown is wasted.

Try a Shotgun Engineer. It's more fun than either of the two IMO.

My personal fav:  Cryo/Throw Sentinel with Firestorm

[lazuli]

I prefer the Infiltrator, or, if I'm being completely honest, whichever one I didn't play most recently. Without sounding like a snob, I'd like to say that the CQC Infiltrator takes a bit more planning to be effective. This isn't to say that a CQC Sentinel is brainless by any means, just that, like many of you have said, it's more forgiving.

[termokanden]

Yes the infiltrator isn't exactly forgiving. It really hurts to have your regen stopped by the cloak. But if you want to kill things quickly, you have to use cloak all the time. So you really to pick the right positions and not get hit. Or you have to take chances and start a fight with half health once in a while.



It's so much fun when it all works though.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Let's sum up what we've all discussed so far, in terms of analogy. I'm just gonna throw in the Vanguard and the Soldier too for good measure.

CQC Infiltrator is like a scalpel. Precise, efficient, delicate.

Vanguard is like a hockey puck. Slapshot ppl in the face.

Soldier is like a bowling ball. Just roll over everything.

CQC Sentinel is a hand grenade. Toss 'em in there and blow 'er up.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 17 février 2011 - 04:00 .

[XCPTNL]

I never got used to a CQC Shotgun Infiltrator. My main problem with this build is the enemy behaviour if you are cloaked. Because then "the plan" often doesn't come together because the moron you picked as your target is suddenly moving to a completely different location and you have just waisted a tactical cloak and/or a shotgun blast for nothing. Obviously this doesn't happen all the time but often enough to annoy me a lot. Without squadmates it's a different story. I tend to mix things up with my Widow Infiltrator and use him for CQC as well - just not with a Shotgun. From range I 1S/1K with the Widow and then I often flank with a cloak and put some SMG rounds into their brains. I hva emuch more fun this way than I had with a SG wielding Infiltrator.

The Sentinel however is perfect for this loadout. I love playing a Sentinel with a Shotgun. If you don't run around in the open like crazy all the time and have to spam Tech Armor nonstop (which can be fun as well) you can also use some of you other powers like Warp, Throw, Cryo, Active Bonus Power or whatever you put points into and add some more versatility to the Sentinel. Both classes rock, I just like the Infiltrator better with a real sniper rilfe (aka Widow) and a SMG for CQC and prefer the Sentinel to wield that SG.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^Very much so. The CQC Infiltrator, much like the standard Sniper Infiltrator relies on singling out individual enemies and eliminating them with high burst damage. This makes it a lot less forgiving, which means you always gotta be on your toes in case your ambush doesn't work. In particular, I find that with my shotgun infiltrator, I get bogged down easily when I mess up my attacks, which isn't really that fun.

[Sparrow44]

The best way to prevent enemies running off when you try to storm them with Cloak is to use your squadmates powers to stagger them, that 1 second stagger may be all you need to get your shot successful or at least close the distance.

Think of it like leaving your squaddies on standby while you go for the kill and if need be they'll provide suppressing fire to ensure it doesn't go wrong.

Modifié par Sparroww, 01 mars 2011 - 04:22 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^You can also melee an enemy before firing, which also stagger them. The melee attack is fast enough that you still get the cloak bonus when sooting, but staggering might force you to do a body shot instead of head shot (if headshots are your thing).

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 01 mars 2011 - 04:38 .

[Sparrow44]

Depends on what version of Cloak, what shotgun and which ammo you're using. Assassin's Cloak and the Evi or GPS ensures you could kill them outright or the Scimi with Cryo ammo means you've potentially got ice statues to mess around with.

[JimL68]

I'm playing a CQC Infiltrator now. Sentinel was definitely easier, much more margin for error with Tech Armor. With Infiltrator, two or more enemies shooting at you rip through your shields like tissue paper. I've found that I have to be opportunistic. If there isn't a good tactical situation for charging in with the shotty, I hang back and snipe or whatever and wait for my set.

[Tony Gunslinger]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

^You can also melee an enemy before firing, which also stagger them. The melee attack is fast enough that you still get the cloak bonus when sooting, but staggering might force you to do a body shot instead of head shot (if headshots are your thing).

With my shotgun infiltrator, I do use melee a lot to stop them from running around and it works great. Also gets you the Brawler achievement if you care about that sort of thing.

[ScroguBlitzen]

lastpatriot wrote...

However, over time, this CQC build begins to feel somewhat “slow” and not all that heroic.  Granted, you do have the ability to think out your attacks more and be more tactical, it doesn’t have that exciting, heart-pounding feel of crushing
your enemy.

I don't find CQC Infiltrator to be either "slow" or unexciting.  Infiltrator only gets boring if you use him just at long or short range.  Just mix it up between the Viper and the Shotgun and stay on the offensive.  Just uploaded a video of a Reaver Infiltrator vs Geth. (Energy Drain would make this faster and safer but less exciting maybe?).  Also, don't play a CQC Infiltrator without teamates, the enemy AI is bugged so they'll just stand there.  It's stupid.

Reaver Infiltrator: Haestrom