37 réponses à ce sujet

[AgentGeej]

So the deed is done and the first playthrough sits glowing amongst your personal "I did this" trophies of gaming.

Yay

Having finally let myself pile through a lot of posts I'd held off on (end game stuff) I find me brain porridge bubbling somewhat.

A lot of people (lets face it most of us) are looking forward to a sequel.
A fair percentage of these folks are ball-parking the idea that Morrigan may end up being the Big-Bad of said sequel.

Now for anyone who took the swamp witche's offer before the battle and perhaps romanced her its easy to see the thought process behind this. I mean she does admit to the reasons she came along with you and is fairly darn insistant on not telling you why she wants the little terror.
The arguments I've read are well thought out and sound pretty damn good too.
Shame is that I can't help but think its wrong.

Morrigan in my opinion isn't the magic weilding lady we should be worrying about.
Its Flemeth

Run that around in your mind for a second.
Play through Morrigans sidestories and you discover Flemeths paticular method of immortality (sneaky abomination tsk tsk), hell Morrigan even gets you to try and bump the old gal off to buy her time, right?
My thoughts are
1-In all the chat over Flemeths immortality its never actually said that the target be blood related to Flemeth.
2-It was said that the more powerfull the target was magically the easier it would be for Flemeth to "fit in".
3-Morrigan herself admits killing her mother wouldn't kill her but merely put her plans back a few years.
4-Morrigan also makes a reference to using the time to defend herself in some way.
5-The heebie bedroom boogie magic Morrigan offers was taught to her by Flemeth.
6-The heebie bedroom boogie magic is the reason Morrigan left the swamps with you
7-Its also why the PC and alistar were saved by Flemeth.

So to finalise Morrigan (in some playthroughs) is pegging it for the horizion with a bellyful of Old God baby to raise it in the wilds.
And my money is on Flemeth using the little tyke (of awsome power) as her new home.
Discuss

[Flamin Jesus]

I'm still standing by my statement that that creatures power comes from its soul (since that's the one thing of it that is preserved in the ritual), so destroying its soul just to steal the body back doesn't seem particularly useful. Not to mention it's entirely possible that Flemeth took over control of Morrigan when you 'killed' her, or that Flemeth and Morrigan are in a way one and the same.

Anyway, I just don't think there's any benefit for either Flemeth or Morrigan in trying to take over the child's body instead of trying to control it.

[Kyrellic]

Personally, I don't think that the sequels will have anything to do, directly, with Flemeth, Morrigan or the Bhaalspa..err...demon-kid.

There remain three more Old God dragons to work through.

Hypothesis: We will have more than one active at the same time. A Blight with multiple archdemons.

Hypothesis: Morrigan will re-appear, as an ally (or companion).

Hypothesis: We won't see Flemeth again.



Desire (quick, find a desire demon to grant it): We will have access to other parts of the world, such as the much more fashionable Orlais.

[Vilegrim]

hmm if Morrigan is the big bad, doubt I'll buy it tbh, strange to be that attached to a bunch of pixels, but of all the characters she is the one I want back in the sequel the most, the story between her and my character is involved for me to ever want to kill her.

[Bill_Deatherage]

I agree with most of what you just said, Heres my take on it.

Flemmeth originaly raises Morrigan to be her new host.  However, when the Blight happens right in her back yard she sees an opportunity to create a more powerful host body, possibly one that would last longer than the ones shes able to currently.  So she rescues you and Alistair, and has Morrigan accompany you to do the deed.  (probably didn't tell Morrigan the real reason she wanted the child either.)  Then you discover the Grimoire in the mages tower (which i think is the How To.. manual on the the body snatching process) Morrigan discovers first what was intended for her and second what Flemmeth really plans for the demon baby.  Well Morrigan, being the ambitious sort, decides she might like to give this imortality thing a shot and decides to follow through with the plan anyways, but first she needs Flemmeth out of the way. So she asks you to do it.  Now regardless of whether you actually kill Flemmeth or not, Morrigan believes she has the time she needs to raise the child and take it for herself.  (if you didnt kill Flemmeth this means that shes free to watch Morrigan and jump in when the time is right.)  What i think this means for a sequal is that Flemmeth and Morrigan, both have the opportunety to make an appearance and continue their little games with eachother. (cuz lets be  honest, it was never about you.  you were just a tool.)

there hope that makes some sort of sense.

Modifié par Bill_Deatherage, 14 novembre 2009 - 05:36 .

[Madlax27]

Keep in mind that Morrigan's "ending" is not the same ending that other people may have gotten. Not all of us let her bear a demon-child after all. Some people sacrificed themselves or sacrificed Alastair/Loghain.

There are too many possible outcomes to assume Morrigan will be in a sequel. It is possible BioWare will "choose" an ending for us but that isn't Bioware's style to just choose an ending for us. A good example is the transition from Baldur's gate 1 and 2. The story of BG2 was completely ending neutral to BG1 meaning no matter how your BG1 ending was it would properly be imported into BG2.

It would be safer to assume we will never hear about Morrigan again other than possible lore/codex entries.

If anything,  Bioware would be greatly undermining their own epic story by choosing the "correct" ending for us like that.  I think people should just give up on future speculation on the issue.

Modifié par Madlax27, 14 novembre 2009 - 05:42 .

[CerebusAlteri]

if you do not take her offer at the end and die, does she steal the ashes in the end info?



i never turned her down lol, but when you do give her a kid and noone dies, it seems the ashes stay. some people said in their games she stole the ashes.



so if you do die and that is when the ashes get stolen maybe she is going to do something with them to bring you back to life in the next game. what i thought anyway when someone mentioned that bit of info.

[Bill_Deatherage]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

I'm still standing by my statement that that creatures power comes from its soul (since that's the one thing of it that is preserved in the ritual), so destroying its soul just to steal the body back doesn't seem particularly useful. Not to mention it's entirely possible that Flemeth took over control of Morrigan when you 'killed' her, or that Flemeth and Morrigan are in a way one and the same.
Anyway, I just don't think there's any benefit for either Flemeth or Morrigan in trying to take over the child's body instead of trying to control it.

I dont think they actually say that the soul is destroyed in the ritual.  It could be that its just repressed, or made dormant or something like that.  but it is a valid point

[Dnarris]

I think that you're probably right about Flemmeth.



I think that the reason why Morrigan wanted that baby at the end was not to save you, but to save herself.



She wanted to figure out a way to stop Flemmeth from taking her body. What better way then to offer her a vessel that would be more powerful than herself?



A baby with the essence of an old god would be a perfect vessel, now wouldn't it?

[Madlax27]

jynthor wrote...

Madlax27 wrote...

Keep in mind that Morrigan's "ending" is not the same ending that other people may have gotten. Not all of us let her bear a demon-child after all. Some people sacrificed themselves or sacrificed Alastair/Loghain.

There are too many possible outcomes to assume Morrigan will be in a sequel. It is possible BioWare will "choose" an ending for us but that isn't Bioware's style to just choose an ending for us. A good example is the transition from Baldur's gate 1 and 2. The story of BG2 was completely ending neutral to BG1 meaning no matter how your BG1 ending was it would properly be imported into BG2.

It would be safer to assume we will never hear about Morrigan again other than possible lore/codex entries.

If anything,  Bioware would be greatly undermining their own epic
story by choosing the "correct" ending for us like that.  I think
people should just give up on future speculation on the issue.

"No"

-Sten

No what?  Trying to look cool by quoting something from the game that has no relevence to the topic and no explanation?

Would you rather wait years for the sequel to come out in hopes that Morrigan is going to make an appearance with demon-child only to have your hopes crushed?

Give it up

[Bill_Deatherage]

Madlax27 wrote...


...  I think people should just give up on future speculation on the issue.

Perhaps but its just so much fun

[Madlax27]

jynthor wrote...


Actually i wouldn't really care

would be nice if they pulled "a Revan" like in KOTOR 2 though never really meeting the npc but hearing stuff about it and maybe even flashbacks

Yeah thats what I am expecting as well.  More likely we will just hear the lore about it via codex entries and such, not to mention plenty of excitement and hype for us players as we piece together the Morrigan lore. .   

I think it offers more mystique leaving it open like they did personally.

[Flamin Jesus]

In all fairness, KOTOR2 wasn't really a BW product.

Anyway, the reason that BG2 worked so "seamlessly" with BG1 was that BG1 and 2 had almost no storyline connection beyond your character background.

The fact that your character can die means that if they want to follow the storyline any further (especially with all the promises the characters gave to survivors that they'd return, which, while not made "by BioWare" were rather clear hints of what is to come) they either have to pull some rather illogical resurrection story (No, no no) or simply select an ending for you.

[Vilegrim]

David Gaider has stated that morrigans story isn't finished so..

[Flamin Jesus]

jynthor wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...

In all fairness, KOTOR2 wasn't really a BW product.
Anyway, the reason that BG2 worked so "seamlessly" with BG1 was that BG1 and 2 had almost no storyline connection beyond your character background.
The fact that your character can die means that if they want to follow the storyline any further (especially with all the promises the characters gave to survivors that they'd return, which, while not made "by BioWare" were rather clear hints of what is to come) they either have to pull some rather illogical resurrection story (No, no no) or simply select an ending for you.

i know doesn't mean they can't do that

I know, I'm absolutely convinced that the Morrigan's child ending will become canon, or that they'll pull something to make it canon (Whatever, Morrigan extracting remains of the Archdemons soul from your corpse or something), I was more answering to Madlax.

[RanosB]

Don't forget the main campaign is modular.  Content can be added to the main campaign.  We could see a kind of expansion dlc to continue the story.  Which could go off your current save and build the future off of what you have already done.  Did you character die at the end?  Maybe The Grey Warden didn't tell you the whole truth.  They do tend to be secrative.  Maybe your not truely destroyed and that you are recreated in some way?  All we can only really do is have our own opinions of what is to come and wait to see what Bioware has in store.

[Dnarris]

I think that no matter what you did in the first story that Morrigan and/or Flemmeth will have found some round about way to manipulate the essence of the archdemon for their own means.



Whether through the baby or through the conflict between your soul and the essence or whoever struck the last blow.



Of course, I have to wonder whether or not Morrigan would be using the baby to extend her life as Flemmeth had done or if she'd be turning the baby over to Flemmeth to spare herself from being taken by Flemmeth.



Or if the essence were to be manipulated by Morrigan or Flemmeth or both.



Whether or not it develops the main nemesis, who knows, but I am certain that this will be in the next game in this aspect some way or another.

[Flamin Jesus]

The most simple reason beyond anything that has to do with the storyline is that BW and EA have done their best to shove Morrigan down our throats for well over a year. They've built brand recognition, and thanks to the fact that there is no "one, true player character", right now Morrigan is more the face of the DA line than any other character in the game, which was a deliberate choice. A choice that worked on the vast majority of players, especially the male 20-30 segment, after all she is both "dark and edgy" as well as genuinely well written and -to some extend- believable. Most like her, some hate her, almost nobody has no opinion of her, and almost everyone will remember her. Say what you will about manipulation, but the simple truth is that her story is more interesting and leaves more questions open than any other.
And you don't build up a representative for your brand just to abandon him/her.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised at all if, in DA2, she would be our very first companion, in the role of our mother.

Modifié par Flamin Jesus, 14 novembre 2009 - 06:11 .

[Vilegrim]

hmm possibly, but the GW story isn't done (unless you died ofc) Finidng Morrigan/Morrigan finding you through the ring, w/e (yes yes fan boi I know ) would make a greta story on it's own,

[Flamin Jesus]

I'd rather have the option between being an old god or an old god than between being an elf, human or dwarf.

Also, god souls do funny things with genes sometimes, especially shapeshifty genes mixed with elf, human or dwarf genes and a sprinkle of taint.