85 réponses à ce sujet

[wizardryforever]

I think people are being a bit short-sighted when they equate small with bad.  Sure, each individual hub world was smaller and lacked that wide open feeling, but they were each several times more alive and vibrant than anything in the first game.  So you can't wander around lost on one massive hub, so what?  You get to immerse yourself with the people, the places (note the plural), and the overall atmosphere that was lacking in that one giant hub.  All that is subjective of course, but I can't help but be baffled at this mindset, especially when you compare hard facts to back up one's opinion.

[Pwener2313]

I did not see Feros with the Salarian merchant in that list.



ME1: 7

ME2: 12

[wizardryforever]

Pwener2313 wrote...

I did not see Feros with the Salarian merchant in that list.

ME1: 7
ME2: 12

Probably because Feros really isn't a hub in the conventional sense.  A hub world would be a place within the game that has significance by being linked to the gameplay and the story in a way that makes it central.  Because there is really nothing of note on Feros (in-universe) and because it links to only one mission, I don't consider it a hub, per se.  Port Hanshan wasn't much better, hence why I kinda labeled it as a half-hub.  And technically speaking the Zakera Cafe (where you buy the ingredients and the in-universe novels) is a merchant as well.  But I didn't count them because I didn't really consider them to be merchants in the conventional sense.  But yeah.

I think we need to reach consensus on what constitutes a hub world.

Edit: Also consider that like Opold on Noveria, Ledra can be gotten rid of by killing him in the final raid on Zhu's Hope.  Though I'm a little fuzzy on whether or not he actually goes away after you kill him.  I have a vague recollection that he inexplicably shows up again even if you killed him.  Meh.

Modifié par wizardryforever, 17 février 2011 - 04:24 .

[Pwener2313]

wizardryforever wrote...

Pwener2313 wrote...

I did not see Feros with the Salarian merchant in that list.

ME1: 7
ME2: 12

Probably because Feros really isn't a hub in the conventional sense.  A hub world would be a place within the game that has significance by being linked to the gameplay and the story in a way that makes it central.  Because there is really nothing of note on Feros (in-universe) and because it links to only one mission, I don't consider it a hub, per se.  Port Hanshan wasn't much better, hence why I kinda labeled it as a half-hub.  And technically speaking the Zakera Cafe (where you buy the ingredients and the in-universe novels) is a merchant as well.  But I didn't count them because I didn't really consider them to be merchants in the conventional sense.  But yeah.

I think we need to reach consensus on what constitutes a hub world.

Consensus not reached!

[ShamieGTX]

I do agree with you, however the hubs in ME2 feel cramped so the whole improvement largely goes unnoticed

[Pwener2313]

There were too big and lacked an attachment. ME2's are fun, funny, interesting and very cool. Have you seen the view of the Citadel from Zakera Ward? It's amazing!

[JKoopman]

Neither the Citadel, nor Omega, nor Illium felt like true "hub worlds" in ME2. You went there to do recruitment/loyalty missions, you bought whatever half-dozen items the merchants sold and then you never had reason to go back there again.

Let's take Illium, for example. You go there to get Samara and Thane and to complete Miranda's loyalty mission. There's also two equipment dealers, a novelty merchant and a star chart kiosk all of which you can wipe out in your first stop and never have cause to visit again. Once you've done Samara and Thane's recruitment missions and Miranda's loyalty mission, what else is there? What reason do you have to ever set foot on Illium again? Sure, there are a few sidequests to do. But most of them tie back to actions in ME1 and, if you're not playing off an imported save or your ME1 import had the Rachni exterminated, you didn't cooperate with Gianna Parasini, Conrad Verner was killed,and Shiala was executed, there's literally nothing else going on there. Illium is probably the "biggest" of ME2's hubs, and it's basically no larger or more alive than Port Hanshan...

That's the problem with the ME2 "hub" areas. In ME1, they were huge and felt alive, and there were constantly new missions popping up on the Citadel as the story progressed, giving you reason to check back between each major plot mission. In ME2, the hub areas just feel like cramped corridors that funnel you to a few plot missions and then give you no reason to ever visit them again. That we're tempted by the entirety of the Presidium but are otherwise locked in the human embassy when outside of Zakera Ward is just rubbing salt in the wound.

There were so many places to explore on the Citadel in ME1 compared to what we've got with ME2, and it felt more alive because of it. You had the Embassies, the Embassy Lounge, the Presidium main drag, the Consort chambers, the Citadel Tower, C-SEC HQ, the Lower Wards main drag, the Med-Clinic, both Flux and Chora's Den and the Docks. It felt like a fully-functional environment. In ME2, the Citadel has... three corridors with two shops each, the Dark Star club and Anderson/Udina's office. That's not a city, it's a strip mall. The fact that you don't even converse/barter with a physical being when you purchase items but instead just click on a kiosk and select from a menu just adds to the emptyness and lack of life.

Modifié par JKoopman, 17 février 2011 - 05:12 .

[Vena_86]

wizardryforever wrote...

I hear a lot of complaining that the hub worlds in ME2 were small and boring, especially compared to the completely perfect in every way ME1. <_< 

I stopped reading right there. Your saracasm is aimed at people who say ME1 is perfect, which would be nobody.
In all the discussions of ME1 vs ME2 I have never seen anyone say ME1 is perfect, because it's not. If you are trying to start a discussion like that, then it is very clear where this will end, and all that will happen is growing walls of ignorance.
With a statement like that you made it clear right away that you can not handle objective criticism towards ME2.

Modifié par Vena_86, 17 février 2011 - 05:13 .

[marshalleck]

wizardryforever wrote...

Probably because Feros really isn't a hub in the conventional sense.  A hub world would be a place within the game that has significance by being linked to the gameplay and the story in a way that makes it central.  Because there is really nothing of note on Feros (in-universe) and because it links to only one mission,

Only one mission? You're not even trying, are you. And there certainly is something of note on Feros: it's one of two places in the game that foreshadows the geth/heretic split. The other being the uncharted world for Tali's geth data.

Anyways, regarding missions. There are missions to supply power cells, food, and water. There is the geth communication beacon which needs to be shut down. The ExoGeni guy wants his weapon data retrieved. Examining consoles and whatnot also provide clues to discovering uncharted world missions dealing with experiments on thorian creepers. 

It's as much a hub as any other "hub" world in ME1.

Modifié par marshalleck, 17 février 2011 - 05:19 .

[titusrsoooooo1337]

wizardryforever wrote...

.  Add em up and compare: ME1 = 6, ME2 = 12. 

you forgot the salarian on feros, the salarian on virmire, and the requisition officer.

[Quole]

wizardryforever wrote...


The Citadel in ME1 has five merchants on the Citadel, the hanar on the Presidium, the volus in the Wards, Morlan, Dr. Michel (once you rescue her), and the C-Sec officer in charge of equipment.  And Port Hanshan only has one merchant, Opold (can be taken out of the picture by having him arrested).  All well and good.  Now in ME2: on Omega you have Kenn's salvage, Harrot's store, and the Batarian merchant.  On Zakera ward, you have the Sirta Foundation, Saronis Applications, Rodham Expeditions, and Citadel Sovenirs (which is only for aesthetic crap, so you might omit them).  On Illium there are three more, Hermia's store, Gateway weapons, and the souvenir shop.  And finally, on Tuchanka there are two more stores, Ratch's and Fortack's.  Add em up and compare: ME1 = 6, ME2 = 12.  Having "no inventory" (whole other issue) sure didn't stop us from having twice as many merchants on hub worlds, now did it?

Its been a while since I played ME1, but didnt the merchants in ME1 have a lot more items for sale? A lot of the ones in ME2 only have 3-5 items roughly.

Modifié par Quole, 17 février 2011 - 05:31 .

[marshalleck]

Quole wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...


The Citadel in ME1 has five merchants on the Citadel, the hanar on the Presidium, the volus in the Wards, Morlan, Dr. Michel (once you rescue her), and the C-Sec officer in charge of equipment.  And Port Hanshan only has one merchant, Opold (can be taken out of the picture by having him arrested).  All well and good.  Now in ME2: on Omega you have Kenn's salvage, Harrot's store, and the Batarian merchant.  On Zakera ward, you have the Sirta Foundation, Saronis Applications, Rodham Expeditions, and Citadel Sovenirs (which is only for aesthetic crap, so you might omit them).  On Illium there are three more, Hermia's store, Gateway weapons, and the souvenir shop.  And finally, on Tuchanka there are two more stores, Ratch's and Fortack's.  Add em up and compare: ME1 = 6, ME2 = 12.  Having "no inventory" (whole other issue) sure didn't stop us from having twice as many merchants on hub worlds, now did it?

Its been a while since I played ME1, but didnt the merchants in ME1 have a lot more items for sale? A lot of the ones in ME2 only have 3-5 items roughly.

They do, and their quality is relative to their location, for example really high quality weapon and armor mods can be most easily found with the hanar on the Presidium. They also actively restock each time the Normandy docks with the hub world, as opposed to the scripted limited restocks (1-2 items) in ME2 that happen after each Collector mission.

Modifié par marshalleck, 17 février 2011 - 05:37 .

[Marta Rio]

I hear semantics and numbers being thrown around...but I tell you what, all that matters for me is how immersive a place is.  What killed immersion for me in ME2 was that (1) most places you visit during "hub"-world missions get closed off after they have served their purpose, and (2) there are way too many coincidentally placed mission-relevant items in close proximity to one another (by this I mean you often don't really have to go anywhere to complete an assignment - this is especially true on Ilium where the given asari that you need to talk to is always standing a few feet away).

The OP seems have a problem with people repeating actions on the Citadel in ME1.  A fair point, and although it's not something that I happened to notice, I can concede that it would be an immersion killer if you did notice.  I do think it's a bit unfair to characterize the Citadel as empty though.  There were plenty of people to talk to and small side missions to be had, not all of which were available from the start of the game.

What's my point?  I guess I don't care about the size of a "hub", or what the definition of a hub is, or how many of them there are.  I know when something feels immersive and when it doesn't.  For me, the environments in ME1 were incredibly immersive (even if that led to some drawbacks like backtracking through levels or having to take the Citadel rapid transit system for the umpteenth time).  In ME2, they just weren't.

[Nidarrock]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Have you seen the view of the Citadel from Zakera Ward? It's amazing!

Yes and it's stunning!  One of my favorite "images" of ME2 actually.  I'll admit that ME2's worlds seemed more alive and real while feeling a bit small.  However that only lasted for the first visit, after that it was obvious how static things were.  NPCs were in the same spot doing the same things, "Repent!"  While NPCs walking in circles doesn't fix this issue there is without a doubt a way to create a more lasting feeling of ambiance and immersion. Think about it would you really be able to take Legion onto the Citadel without inciting somesort of major confrontation?  Are the same group of guys going to be hanging out in The Eternity Club for the whole duration of the game?

[wizardryforever]

marshalleck wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Probably because Feros really isn't a hub in the conventional sense.  A hub world would be a place within the game that has significance by being linked to the gameplay and the story in a way that makes it central.  Because there is really nothing of note on Feros (in-universe) and because it links to only one mission,

Only one mission? You're not even trying, are you. And there certainly is something of note on Feros: it's one of two places in the game that foreshadows the geth/heretic split. The other being the uncharted world for Tali's geth data.

Anyways, regarding missions. There are missions to supply power cells, food, and water. There is the geth communication beacon which needs to be shut down. The ExoGeni guy wants his weapon data retrieved. Examining consoles and whatnot also provide clues to discovering uncharted world missions dealing with experiments on thorian creepers. 

It's as much a hub as any other "hub" world in ME1.

I'll clarify, since people seem to get their undergarments twisted into knots about this for some reason.

A hub is a place in which there is lots of trade and stuff to do.  An isolated colony cut off from the rest of the galaxy may be interesting, but it really doesn't fit the definition of "hub," yes?  Also, missions being given in a certain location is irrelevant unless they are also solved in that location.  For instance, Kahoku's mission starts on the Citadel, but is it a Citadel mission?  I'd say not.  This is why things like mission hooks found on terminals on Feros don't really count as Feros missions.  As for the little "help the colony" missions, that doesn't do too much to make the place a hub.  The colonists don't have too much to say, beyond giving off a creepy vibe, and there is little to no dialogue between NPCs.

Even if you don't agree with my definition of a hub, and want to include Feros in the totals, ME2's hubs still had more stuff going on that was atmospheric and immersive.  This is in spite of not having miles of empty space and long elevator rides.

[wizardryforever]

Marta Rio wrote...

I hear semantics and numbers being thrown around...but I tell you what, all that matters for me is how immersive a place is.  What killed immersion for me in ME2 was that (1) most places you visit during "hub"-world missions get closed off after they have served their purpose, and (2) there are way too many coincidentally placed mission-relevant items in close proximity to one another (by this I mean you often don't really have to go anywhere to complete an assignment - this is especially true on Ilium where the given asari that you need to talk to is always standing a few feet away).

This is also true of quite a few places in ME1.  Can you return to Peak 15 after you complete it?  Can you go back through the back part of Chora's den?  What about the Exogeni building on Feros?
I'd argue that it is only more noticable in ME2 because ME2 had more main missions than ME1 did, so there are more areas being cut off.  Regardless, I don't understand what's so important about being able to revisit places you have no need to ever go back to.  I never felt the need to go back into the Eclipse base on Illium where I recruited Samara, or to go back to the Weyrloc base after I'd cleaned it out.  What would be the point?

The OP seems have a problem with people repeating actions on the Citadel in ME1.  A fair point, and although it's not something that I happened to notice, I can concede that it would be an immersion killer if you did notice.  I do think it's a bit unfair to characterize the Citadel as empty though.  There were plenty of people to talk to and small side missions to be had, not all of which were available from the start of the game.

I say it's comparitively empty because for its size, there is remarkably little actually going on.  While everything being too close together can be jarring as well, I found the rich, populated environments more immersive than the big quiet one(s) in ME1.

What's my point?  I guess I don't care about the size of a "hub", or what the definition of a hub is, or how many of them there are.  I know when something feels immersive and when it doesn't.  For me, the environments in ME1 were incredibly immersive (even if that led to some drawbacks like backtracking through levels or having to take the Citadel rapid transit system for the umpteenth time).  In ME2, they just weren't.

I'm really having trouble understanding this point of view.  I'm not trying to pick a fight, I really want to know why people feel this.  I just don't get it.  To me, everything about the way the inhabitants acted in ME2 was miles better than anything in ME1 for making it seem real.

[wizardryforever]

Vena_86 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

I hear a lot of complaining that the hub worlds in ME2 were small and boring, especially compared to the completely perfect in every way ME1. <_< 

I stopped reading right there. Your saracasm is aimed at people who say ME1 is perfect, which would be nobody.
In all the discussions of ME1 vs ME2 I have never seen anyone say ME1 is perfect, because it's not. If you are trying to start a discussion like that, then it is very clear where this will end, and all that will happen is growing walls of ignorance.
With a statement like that you made it clear right away that you can not handle objective criticism towards ME2.

What, a snarky opening sentence automatically means I'm a rabid fan who won't listen to anything?  How does that follow, especially since you didn't even read the rest?

Modifié par wizardryforever, 17 février 2011 - 01:19 .

[PauseforEffect]

The hub worlds were not bad; but it did feel cramped having to back and forth, back and forth. Whether through hallways on Illium or the winding steps on the Zakera Ward, there was a frequent sense of turning, turning and turning while looking at blank walls and doors that opened too slowly (claustrophobia settling in)

What I miss is the Presidium from ME1 where you could take 3 different paths to get to that hanar's shop. All without tunnels

[Marta Rio]

wizardryforever wrote...

What's my point?  I guess I don't care about the size of a "hub", or what the definition of a hub is, or how many of them there are.  I know when something feels immersive and when it doesn't.  For me, the environments in ME1 were incredibly immersive (even if that led to some drawbacks like backtracking through levels or having to take the Citadel rapid transit system for the umpteenth time).  In ME2, they just weren't.

I'm really having trouble understanding this point of view.  I'm not trying to pick a fight, I really want to know why people feel this.  I just don't get it.  To me, everything about the way the inhabitants acted in ME2 was miles better than anything in ME1 for making it seem real.

Ok, I'll give you specific examples, if that helps.  (Slight spoilers follow) 

In ME1, in the main storyline you have to track down Fist.  You can either go to Chora's den to get a lead on Garrus, which you then follow up at the med clinic, or go to C-sec and find Wrex.  If you pass through a certain part of the wards on the way you may run into Emily Wong, who gives you the assignment regarding Fists's OSD.  Then you have to fight your way through Chora's den to get to Fist.  Then you have to go rescue Tali. 

But after all that's done, you can still go back to the Med Clinic and talk to Dr. Michelle.  You can still go to C-sec (and you have to to get to your ship).  You can go back to the wards to give Emily Wong the OSD.  And you can go back to Chora's den, if you choose to do a couple of extra assignments.  You may even go back to the place where you rescue Tali to complete the "find the keepers" quest.  For me, the fact that there are still things going on in the places that you've already visited makes the place seem more 'real'.

Contrast this with Zakera ward on ME2 - it seems like every single person of importance can be linked to the three floors of Zakera ward in some way - you meet Mouse there, Fade's contact is there, Kasumi hangs out there. Or take Ilium - the Rachni contact seems to be hanging out several feet away from the undercover cop you met at Port Hanshan, and if you go upstairs, well, Conrad's there, as well as Miranda's contact.  Similar story for Omega (I'll give Tuchanka a pass, since it's supposed to be a small camp).  Most of the assignments in these places can be resolved by walking a few feet.  It's one stop shopping, which is convenient for gameplay purposes but makes me conscious that I'm playing a game, not exploring a world. 

The designers could have changed things slightly to make it more immersive for me.  One example: Nef's apartment on Omega is conveniently located on the main map of Omega.  Instead of putting it there (and having it look conspicuous as the only apartment in the vicinity), they could have made you go back to the area near Mordin's clinic, where there are plenty of apartments owned by poor individuals (which Nef totally is).  If you had to go back to that area, you could have chatted with Mordin's assistant, and maybe gotten a minor quest where you have to go get medical supplies or negotiate a deal with Aria or something.  Certainly, you don't need to go back to every location after you've visited, but there are certain ones that it makes sense to revisit.

[Whatever42]

In ME2, on Illium, I can speak with the Rachni courier, Gianna, Shiala, Conrad, get employment for the slave, hack terminals, recover a locket for a grieving widow, retreive the geneological record of a salarian familiy, get evidence against an embezzler, set up 2 merchants, debate a racist asari, save Liara from a SB agent, and break up a couple.

I can listen to conversations about shorting prefabs, importing dangerous drugs, joining a merc band, buying a gift to be remembered by, buying tech to impress an asari mistress, a bachelor party explaining cultural attitudes towards sex, a turian trying to get it on with a quarian, and a discussion on purebloods.

I can also see the docks by recruiting Samara. I can see the warehouses by rescuing Miranda's sister. I can see an imcomplete office building by recruiting Thane. I can chase all of the city in the LotSB mission.

And the reason people think the Citadel is better than that is because you can recruit Garrus and Wrex in any order? And pick up a quest to get info for Emily Wong? That's the whole argument about why ME1 is great and ME2 sucks?

The Citadel did have a number of neat little side missions, I won't bash it. But the whole argument that it was a better hub seems to be that there was a lot of empty, bland space and more running around. Instead of talking with people to have them give you long explanations about how C-Sec works or how the SB works, we overhear that information in side-conversations or get it in quest dialogue. IMO, ME2 does it much more naturally than ME1.

But again, I think we're not really comparing ME2 to ME1 but ME2 to some imagined ideal.

I agree that Illium would be made better if we could revisit some areas. It would be cool if we could go back to the docks later and talk to the Asari cops. Or go to the slums on Omega. Bioware could put a few conversations to reflect how we changed it by our ramage through there. It would add some illusion of size to these places. But that doesn't mean ME1 had decent hubs.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 17 février 2011 - 03:04 .

[Marta Rio]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
And the reason people think the Citadel is better than that is because you can recruit Garrus and Wrex in any order? And pick up a quest to get info for Emily Wong? That's the whole argument about why ME1 is great and ME2 sucks?

Aww man, I think you're misrepresenting my argument a bit.  I gave one example to try to illustrate my point, so as to keep an already large wall of text somewhat readable.  There are other examples I could have listed.  And I wasn't trying to say that ME1 is perfect and ME2 is terrible, I was trying to explain to the OP why I feel the way I do (which is exactly what the OP asked for).

[-Skorpious-]

There is one very significant reason why ME had the better hub world(s) in my opinion - they had music and background themes. Afterlife aside, ME2's hub worlds were completely silent.

Music is an essential part of movies and videogames, as they help convey emotion where words or actions cannot.

[JKoopman]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

In ME2, on Illium, I can speak with the Rachni courier, Gianna, Shiala, Conrad, get employment for the slave, hack terminals, recover a locket for a grieving widow, retreive the geneological record of a salarian familiy, get evidence against an embezzler, set up 2 merchants, debate a racist asari, save Liara from a SB agent, and break up a couple.

The Rachni courier, Gianna Parasini, Shiala and Conrad Verner all can not exist depending on the previous actions of your imported Shepard or whether you imported a Shepard at all. The Synthetic Insights representative is also standing literally 5 ft away from the slave broker who gives you the quarian slave assignment (as is Gianna Parasini and the Serrice Technology dealer and Shiala and the Baria Frontiers representative), which goes back to what Marta Rio was saying about feeling cramped.

Neither the locket nor the salarian geneological data nor the embezzling evidence are "assignments" that are picked up in Nos Astra; you find the locket on Miranda's loyalty mission, you find the geneological data on Thane's recruitment mission and you find the embezzling evidence on Samara's recruitment mission, and you simply deliver them to their respective owners in Nos Atra (with the exception of Thax's representative who actually approaches you) in return for a few lines of dialog. Are those really "assignments" worth mentioning?

I'm also not sure what you mean by "set up 2 merchants [and] debate a racist asari" as the only examples of setting up merchants that I can recall is Hermia, the Serrice Technology dealer you speak with for Gianna Parasini's assignment, and the Gateway Personal Defense dealer you can con into threatening the bar owner to complete Conrad's assignment, and the only debate with a racist asari that I'm aware of is the conversation with the Baria Frontiers representative for Shiala's assignment. Each has already been mentioned previously, so you're apparently counting the same three assignments twice?

All things considered, that leaves hacking 3 terminals in the merchant area for Liara, hacking 5 more terminals on the trading floor to help her pinpoint the Shadow Broker's agent, walking 5 ft to find employment for the quarian slave in the Eternity Bar and speaking with the asari owner of the Memories of Illium kiosk about her boyfriend Charr in order to get a discount there as the only solid assignments in the Illium "hub". Not really a whole lot going on in Nos Astra, is there?

And Nos Astra is the "largest" of ME2's hub areas. Omega and the Citadel are smaller and actually have less going on in them.

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

I can listen to conversations about shorting prefabs, importing dangerous drugs, joining a merc band, buying a gift to be remembered by, buying tech to impress an asari mistress, a bachelor party explaining cultural attitudes towards sex, a turian trying to get it on with a quarian, and a discussion on purebloods.

And I could listen to a conversation every time I got in an elevator in ME1. What's your point?

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

I can also see the docks by recruiting Samara. I can see the warehouses by rescuing Miranda's sister. I can see an imcomplete office building by recruiting Thane. I can chase all of the city in the LotSB mission.

And I could walk the entire length of the Citadel Tower from the outside while a gigantic space battle roared around me during the final battle of ME1. Again, what's your point? Those areas aren't part of the Nos Astra hub and can never be revisited again once their respective missions are completed.

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

And the reason people think the Citadel is better than that is because you can recruit Garrus and Wrex in any order? And pick up a quest to get info for Emily Wong? That's the whole argument about why ME1 is great and ME2 sucks?

No. People think the Citadel in ME1 was better because it actually felt like a living place and not just a convenient centrally-located one-stop strip mall. As I and others have said, at any time you could visit the Embassies, the Embassy Lounge, the Consort's Chambers, the Presidium main drag, the Citadel Tower/Council Chambers, C-SEC HQ and it's respective training area, the Lower Wards main drag, the Med-Clinic, Flux, Chora's Den and the Docks. There were multi-stage assignments that took you all over the station (as opposed to start and finish being literally 5 steps away) and new assignments were constantly added throughout the main story to entice you to return and explore those areas again.

Compare that to ME2 where you've got three levels of corridors making up Zakera Ward with the Dark Star lounge and Anderson/Udina's office as the only optional areas to visit. Heck, if you really want to see the contrast, simply compare the difference in the number of assignments available on the Citadel: 30 vs. 3 (Found Forged ID and False Positives are the same thing).

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

The Citadel did have a number of neat little side missions, I won't bash it. But the whole argument that it was a better hub seems to be that there was a lot of empty, bland space and more running around. Instead of talking with people to have them give you long explanations about how C-Sec works or how the SB works, we overhear that information in side-conversations or get it in quest dialogue. IMO, ME2 does it much more naturally than ME1.

Because approaching a C-SEC officer and asking him how C-SEC operates, with options for input from Shepard himself, is less "natural" than simply overhearing a random conversation about how C-SEC operates from two random C-SEC officers while Shepard silently listens in? I'm not following you.

Modifié par JKoopman, 17 février 2011 - 07:53 .

[Cra5y Pineapple]

 

[JKoopman]

@Cra5y Pineapple:

Are you referring to me or the OP?

I just think it's ludicrous that someone would dismiss Port Hanshan and Zhu's Hope as not being "true hubs" when the fact is that both of them are equal to or larger than either the Zakera Ward, Omega or Nos Atra hubs in ME2, both in terms of size/square footage and number of assignments available.

Lets look at ME2. Nos Astra has the Trading Floor, Eternity Bar, Liara's Office, the Cargo Transport Terminal, and the Transportation Hub, with 3 missions and 2-5 assignments depending on previous actions. Omega has the Main Drag, Club Afterlife, Lower Afterlife, and the Markets, with 3 missions and 5 assignments.

Compare that to ME1. Port Hanshan had the Docking Bay, Plaza, Mezzanine, Synthetic Insights Offices and Garage, with 1 mission and 2 assignments available. Zhu's Hope had the Docking Bay, Colony, Tower, and Tunnels, with 1 mission and 5 assignments available.

How are the former "large full hub areas" but the later are "too small to be considered true hubs"? It seems to me that they're pretty much equal. And if the insignificant hub areas in ME1 are as large or larger than the real hubs in ME2--with as many or more assignments to offer--what does that say about ME2's hubs?

Modifié par JKoopman, 17 février 2011 - 08:26 .