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[Humanoid_Taifun]

Bhryaen wrote...

Grond0 wrote...
As BGT uses the BG2 game engine it would include by default the standard lock-picking, trap removal and spell learning bonuses. 

Damn, you're right! I'm getting 10xp for stealing things from the Candlekeep guards... which kind of makes sense since it's experience from skills, but still... not really necessary. Is there a mod that removes all XP rewards for traps/spells (rather than just nerfs it)? Maybe I missed a component in BGT Tweaks or something.

One of the best tweakpacks out there...

Edit: Social Bioware doesn't like my link?

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 19 février 2011 - 05:13 .

[Grond0]

You could also try the DEFJAM experience fixer. This allows you to separately nerf xp for creatures, quests and skills, although I think it may have a minimum of 10% rather than 0%. I haven't tried the skills component, but I've got creatures set at 75% at the moment and that works fine.

[Bhryaen]

Ah, yes, aTweaks is where the BG2 Trap/spell XP remover is. Odd that I didn't select it... Does it show up in a BGT install? Maybe I selected "n" for "no nerf" instead of, say, "2" for Remove. Oh no. Now my .bat is missing an essential element!! *jumps off bridge... but Umberlee saves me as a favor*

[Squidmaster]

Ah, that explains my graphic issues with BG1 for sure. I may just do a fresh install. If I decide to do that, can I keep my current savegame and restore it or will that be unsafe.



Speaking of unsafe, can anyone enlighten me a bit about the Beregost save situation with Tutu? I have read about it but I am not sure if there is a workaround other than hoping that all you did in there will save ok when you get out. For example, can you save outside, walk in, save, then back out, save, and then go back to the save in Beregost if the third one works out? That would sure save a lot of time to be able to test it right at entry instead of waiting and hoping.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Squidmaster wrote...
Speaking of unsafe, can anyone enlighten me a bit about the Beregost save situation with Tutu?

SCS fixes it for Tutu. BGT contains the fix itself. If you are already victim to it, the Beregost Crash Fixer supposedly saves your save games.
So far I've only used BGT (ever since graduating from pure BG1), so I have no first-hand experience with either the SCS component nor the save game fixer, but I've never heard any complaints (except that the SCS component needs to be installed before you visit Beregost for the first time).

[Squidmaster]

Should I add SCS for a first play through or is it too hard for that?

[Humanoid_Taifun]

You don't need to install the whole thing. Conveniently the readme would state which component exactly helps against the Beregost crash thing, unfortunately the author didn't believe that necessary - I believe it's one of the core components though, which shouldn't hurt to install in any case.

What other components to install... In your case you should skip any component that says it improves casters (from practically useless in vanilla BG1 to nightmare fuel for the unprepared). General AI improvements (like Better Calls For Help) shouldn't be too dangerous.

Normal fighters aren't much of a threat anymore once you know the basics of the game, so an AI improvement wouldn't hurt too much - unfortunately this would also improve (for example) thieves, and it's possible you are not ready yet to have your characters get killed by invisible enemies. Besides these basic informations, try to use your own judgement. (and if you raise the difficulty too far, we'll still be here to help you through)

[Bhryaen]

Squidmaster wrote...
Should I add SCS for a first play through or is it too hard for that?

The readme  lists a number of different added difficulties to choose from (or skip). You can use components just to toughen the "boss battles" or just to enhance the AI of enemies or just make bears run a lot faster. (I don't recommend the "Improved Spiders" unless you're ready to face some serious surprises and reloads, at least at first...)

The AI improvements are a qualitative enhancement, not just a toughener, because vanilla BG allows you to creep up and absurdly keep pelting a member of a large group who's at the edge of the group without ever triggering a response from their buddies who are standing nearby just out of sight. SCS's "better calls for help" makes enemies react to any attack of their buddies, so it's more realistic... and challenging. But it doesn't add powers to the enemies, just makes them smarter that way. There are some vanilla BG characteristics that I refuse to endure any longer now that I can mod them into something better.

Other good "basic" SCS tweaks... "Better AI" makes enemies able to determine who is the mage or who has the lower AC and target intelligently rather than the vanilla "attack whoever's nearest." Again: doesn't make enemies stronger, but you have to stay on your toes more as if fighting another player. Actually you end up fighting the same monsters with a sort of auto-DavidW intelligence (mod creator of SCS). "Smarter mages" and "smarter priests" makes spellcasters better at choosing targets and spells and able to prepare themselves better with defense spells. SCS has plenty of options... I'd avoid most of the monster enhancements, but if you want to have fun with combat, they still might be good for you. The basics would be the first ones- AI and "call for help".

[Squidmaster]

You know, I think I remember mages being too easy. Maybe I should try that. Will they come prebuffed if I sneak up though? My main character is a stealthier and it would be a shame to penalize that. I'm not sure about the better AI. How far out of the way will monsters go to target mages? Part of the game is obviously to keep them attacking your tough guys, and if that is impossible I wonder how fun that would be, or if you could even use archery for instance.

[Bhryaen]

Squidmaster wrote...
You know, I think I remember mages being too easy. Maybe I should try that. Will they come prebuffed if I sneak up though? My main character is a stealthier and it would be a shame to penalize that. I'm not sure about the better AI. How far out of the way will monsters go to target mages? Part of the game is obviously to keep them attacking your tough guys, and if that is impossible I wonder how fun that would be, or if you could even use archery for instance.

The readme doesn't say it, but when you come to that component you can choose 1 of 4 options: 1. mages have BG2 spells and pre-buff, 2. mages have only BG1 spells and pre-buff, 3. mages have BG2 spells but don't pre-buff, 4. mages have only BG1 spells and don't pre-buff. (WARNING: those numbers aren't accurate- just read the actual command prompt choices- my memory isn't that good.) I choose BG2 spells but no pre-buffing. It just seems unrealistic that they walk around pre-buffed. If I tried that I'd waste all my spells before I actually ran into anything.

As for AI, I've only played with SCS once, and it wasn't so bad but then I had no pure mages. Everyone was dual or multi-class mage. They may target a mage, but if your mage goes invisible they have to retarget. Or if they're a melee fighter and your mage casts Blindness on them (or Sleep or Web, etc etc), well... not so smart an AI anymore. They don't always go after mages, but for sure archers may try to disrupt spells, and what Humanoid_Taifun was saying about thief enemies going into stealth and sneaking up on low AC chars is also true. But mages aren't defenseless! Mirror Image is a lifesaver... as is Invisibility...

The advantages of archery for BG1, however: still viable. Ranged weapons... don't leave home without them. And just because they're trying to target mages or a lower AC guy like a kensai or monk doesn't mean your own tank can't rush an archer and force them into melee or rush a cleric and smack the spell out of their hands. Oh, and not all enemy AI is the same either. A heavy melee fighter might just try to plow through anything in front of them. Or a mage might target a tank in order to disable them (the same way you'll be targeting theirs).

The one comfort in all of it is that they can't do anything that you can't do. The mod Tactics gives enemies unrealistic advantages, spells, and abilities. SCS simply makes them smarter, more realistic opponents, or adds specific advantages that make sense for the type of creature or opponent they are.

As so sayeth the Wise Humanoid_Taifun, however, it all depends on the challenge you prefer. Nothing is unbeatable (obviously) but some people don't seem to like the kind of challenge that makes you sit up in your chair on occasion, puzzling and fretting. I do, so I go advocating lots of mods and willy nilly SCS components. You may be content simply with "Better calls for help." I just like it to stay interesting...

Modifié par Bhryaen, 20 février 2011 - 01:21 .

[Squidmaster]

Hehe, good deal. Do you happen to know if rogue rebalancing (which sounds awesome) will work ok if I start a new game but import my main character (gnome)? It says to start a new game but makes no mention of imports. I sort of assume this would work based on the fact that it was originally made for BG2 but knowing for sure doesn't hurt.



Here's a non mod one: Summon Familiar - awesome or big liability? Does the game know how to deal with it if you import from BG1 to 2 with a familiar also? I could see that inflating HP artificially.

[Bhryaen]

Squidmaster wrote...

Hehe, good deal. Do you happen to know if rogue rebalancing (which sounds awesome) will work ok if I start a new game but import my main character (gnome)? It says to start a new game but makes no mention of imports. I sort of assume this would work based on the fact that it was originally made for BG2 but knowing for sure doesn't hurt.

I'm probably not the one to answer, but I assume that your imported  BG2-made char would work so long as you have a BG2 engine in place (i.e., Tutu or BGT).

Here's a non mod one: Summon Familiar - awesome or big liability? Does the game know how to deal with it if you import from BG1 to 2 with a familiar also? I could see that inflating HP artificially.

Also potentially out of my league. Never tried it. I never went with a familiar, but if you've read the No Reload thread at all (in the BG1 Spoilers section) you'll know that some familiars are very useful. I'd assume importation compatibility, but don't know.

By the way if, when you go ahead into a game and try it, you have questions, post them in the "spoilers allowed" section so we can answer without  restricting what we talk about. It's easier to say, "Well, Gorgothion  tends to have one invisible mage behind him, so if you throw an Oggle  Mage spell right at the Kobold Lord beside him, you'll cause the mage's  spell to enter a wild mage surge..." In this section we can only say,  "Uh... yeah, that's a tricky one. Maybe try a spell?"

Modifié par Bhryaen, 20 février 2011 - 01:25 .

[Bhryaen]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
Conveniently the readme would state which component exactly helps against the Beregost crash thing, unfortunately the author didn't believe that necessary - I believe it's one of the core components though,

Come to think of it, there is an independent component just for the Beregost Crash fix:

~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #60 // Prevent random crashes in Beregost (by Ascension64): v16
Actually it's odder that it's an option than that it's not in the core, but I suppose some might enjoy a Beregost crash every once in a while...

[Squidmaster]

I'm not trying to import a BG2 character. I just exported the guy I have been playing because I like him so I could use him after my game reinstall here, since I did some things wrong. I guess the point is this: does the rogue mod only work on brand new characters?

[Bhryaen]

Squidmaster wrote...
does the rogue mod only work on brand new characters?

I just tried to check in the RR readme to see if it said anything helpful in this regard, but apparently it's not accessible right now. They just upgraded RR from 4.38 to 4.40, and apparently part of 4.40 involved having "proofread the readme," so that might have something to do with it... RR involves kits, thief skills, racial bonuses... so it could affect a char at development. If in doubt, make a new char, apportion like your old char, then use Shadowkeeper to put the stats where they were.

[Squidmaster]

I compared a new one with my saved one and there were no differences. I'm gonna go with it unless I hear otherwise.

[Grond0]

Squidmaster wrote...
Here's a non mod one: Summon Familiar - awesome or big liability? Does the game know how to deal with it if you import from BG1 to 2 with a familiar also? I could see that inflating HP artificially.

I would definitely say awesome.  Personally my familiar tends to stay in the PCs backpack all the time (so just giving a HP benefit), but you might want to read up on their abilities - one has an extremely useful spell that's worth getting him out of the pack for briefly.

It's a long time since I did the transition to BG2 unmodded, but I think this could cause problems.  Actually it was a bit buggy on HP irrespective of whether you had a familiar - I remember once screaming at the computer after seeing a character with exceptionally high HP rerolled to average on transfer (this would not be a problem if you use maximum HP rolls anyway).  I now use BGT and this will correctly do the transition - your familiar will be imported to Irenicus' dungeon with you (although you'll have to pick him up out of a container on arrival).

[Squidmaster]

Cool, I will use one and then just make sure the HP converts properly. I can always edit it to the correct values in Shadowkeeper if need be. My years of dorking out with the PnP version has me hard coded with the HP tables.



I have a few less technical questions (finally). I installed one of the tweak mods that gave me the choice to choose the NPCs' skills and such. I am curious if there are any particularly bad choices. I also have a few specific questions.



Are there ever any magic clubs Jaheira can use? What about scimitars? What's her best angle to take? Ranged sling user with shield?



Is it ever worth taking a shield on a warrior-type in this game? I know in PnP the shield was always a dubious choice in the earlier editions. For instance, I could make Khalid a dual wielder (the default with Tutu it seems) or go sword/board. Either way I seem hosed with ranged weapons but ideas are welcome.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

In BG1 Tutu you should always go for ranged combat. Shield + weapon gives you a bonus to AC while at the same time allowing you to employ throwing axes, knives or slings. Two-handed weapons also allow for bows and crossbows. Dual-wielding can be roughly translated to suicide (that's an exxageration, but seriously: stay away from the enemy or keep your defenses up!)
This table shows what weapons can be found where in the vanilla game, but there are several mods that introduce some more weapons from BG2 (because otherwise your points in katana will be completely wasted). I think I'd go for quarterstaffs and slings with her (and replace the quarterstaff with staff mace+shield when I got there).

[Squidmaster]

Awesome. I will tweak them a bit I think. For a fighter like Khalid, is weapon/shield + sling/axe/dagger superior to bow plus 1 hander or a swap of some sort? It seems odd to me to make Khalid use axes as his main melee attack or to use 2H weapons.

[Bhryaen]

Squidmaster wrote...
... is weapon/shield + sling/axe/dagger superior to bow plus 1 hander or a swap of some sort? It seems odd to me to make Khalid use axes as his main melee attack or to use 2H weapons.

What Humanoid_Taifun is speaking about is the game engine mechanic of 1st hand and 2nd hand. If you use a shield, the only thing you can use with the shield that is a ranged weapon would be throwing axes and daggers, slings, and darts. If you use a two-handed sword with no shield, then you can also equip a bow or crossbow. It's a matter of what you can equip simultaneously- or rather what you can stick in your active inventory slots simultaneously...

Now, I tend to go the hard route... I want to have a shield on me because if I get cornered, or if there's really no way to fight except to press in with an attack, I want my AC as best as it can get. But I also want to use a bow because of the extra range from a target, extra attack per round, and the extra damage of composite longbows. So I carry both. However, this means living with inconvenience. If I must quickly switch to melee, I have to enter inventory, strip the bow from my right hand, throw the shield onto my left arm, and equip my [one-handed weapon]. If I need to switch back to a bow I have to enter inventory again, strip the shield from the left, and put the bow back in the right-hand slots. It's very doable but also very inconvenient and tedious, so most people simply stick with either two 2-handed items (2-handed sword and bow) or 1-handed items (longsword and sling) and shield.

Now that option doesn't exist for bards who can't use shieldsanyway and thus may as well go with two-handeds or druids who can't use bows or other two-handeds, and so may as well go with shields and one-handeds. Thus in Jaheira's case- so long as she remains a druid, that is- she tends to be best off with a shield + sling/ club (or whatever). Of course the universally usable staff is two-handed, so there are exceptions, and if you use the Level1NPCs weapons restriction removal everyone becomes available for the inconvenient path...

Modifié par Bhryaen, 20 février 2011 - 11:42 .

[Grond0]

Bhryaen wrote...
Now that option doesn't exist for bards who can't use shieldsanyway and thus may as well go with two-handeds or druids who can't use bows or other two-handeds, and so may as well go with shields and one-handeds. Thus in Jaheira's case- so long as she remains a druid, that is- she tends to be best off with a shield + sling/ club (or whatever). Of course the universally usable staff is two-handed, so there are exceptions, and if you use the Level1NPCs weapons restriction removal everyone becomes available for the inconvenient path...

Daggers make an excellent throwing weapon for a druid and also have the advantage you can use these as your main weapon.  Once you've got grandmastery you can start learning 2 weapon proficiency to give yourself the option of dual-wielding rather than hanging back or using a shield.  However, having just taken a character through  BG1 with dagger proficiency, it is far more hassle than swapping weapons as Bryaen describes.  This is largely because throwing daggers only come in stacks of 10 and use weapon slots rather than missile slots so need a lot of micro-management.  Therefore you may not want to go down this route unless you have a strong RP commitment to this (which I did).

[Squidmaster]

Great tips. One of the nice things about this game is that I can edit the characters a bit after the fact if need be now that I have some advice on the subject.



So far I'm having a blast with this, even more than I expected honestly. The story is great, and I forget enough of it to enjoy it all over again. I just finished the final battle in the mines, enhanced by SCS, which I wound up installing almost fully. Good stuff. Challenging but not insane. I almost lost Khalid but my last cure light wounds kept him going with him and half my party immobilized.



I have a few more questions. Is there a way to speed up trap detection? I have Imoen at 100 but I feel like I have to move her 3 inches and then wait 2 seconds in order to really use the skill. It is irritating.



Are there any good rogue scripts I could use to streamline things? I have eRogue or some such along with a couple others that installed with some of the mods recommended here, but none seem to really work properly (one of them breaks stealth as soon as I hit it for instance.) I would love one that would allow me to swap weapons while stealthed without breaking stealth or going into inventory, and one to allow Imoen to detect traps all the time except when engaging in combat, where it would be nice if she would fire a bow for me without direct intervention.



Do you guys find Jaheira to be enough healing for the game? I don't really get why she is multiclassed to be honest.

[FFLB]

I just got used to memorizing and casting Find Traps. Much faster and reliable, even during combat.

[Bhryaen]

Squidmaster wrote...
Is there a way to speed up trap detection? I have Imoen at 100 but I feel like I have to move her 3 inches and then wait 2 seconds in order to really use the skill. It is irritating.

With two rogues, one stealthy, the other trap-detecting, i keep the stealthed one directly in front, only proceeding forward when I've waited maybe 3-5 sec, with the detecting one not stealthed and rejoining behind... but yeah, it takes a while. I don't like the wait, but it does simulate the time required to actually thoroughly scour the surroundings. My impatience has cost me before. Don't know any mods that remove the "no-simultaneous-stealth-&-trap-detection" feature, enable insta-detection, or allow weapon swaps that don't break stealth. The first two seem like cheats, but given that going to inventory doesn't interrupt stealth, it seems reasonable to have the third. Better stick with FFLB's suggestion and get a good cleric.

As fpr detecting all the time, I believe there is a component in SCS that enables your thief NPCs to have an AI that, when not in combat, auto-resorts to trap detection. There is another that auto-enables bardsong for bards when not in combat.

Do you guys find Jaheira to be enough healing for the game? I don't really get why she is multiclassed to be honest.

I made her a full druid with Level1NPCs, but haven't recruited her yet to test it out... The Jaheira/Khalid pair are both fighters though in that way, so it sort of works storywise. Not as believeable to see a nature-first druid willingly joining the Harpers and consorting regularly with a fighters. For me though, there's never enough healing to go 'round!