78 réponses à ce sujet

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Since traps are only detected once per round, you'd have to speed up the round to speed up the trap detection. Spells like Improved Haste split a person's round into 2 mini rounds (but that one is unavailable in BG1). Raising the frame rate would speed up the entire game (and thereby the rounds as well). Not very good solutions, sorry.

I always go into the inventory when swapping weapons while stealthed, so I never get unstealthed.

In BG1 you want multiclasses. They get a whole lot more than singleclasses. In BG2, singleclasses start to make sense, but druid is one of the more forsaken classes imo, and mixing some fighter into it enhances the overall capability (though it does mean you need 6M XP for level 15).

[Grond0]

Bhryaen wrote...
I don't like the wait, but it does simulate the time required to actually thoroughly scour the surroundings. My impatience has cost me before.

Me too.  One of the hardest areas in the game for me is the Firewine ruins, just because of the patience required.  Of course you can always make your thief invisible.  As disarming traps is counted as passive your thief can in theory detrap an entire area filled with enemies (although I've noticed that SCS has set up roadblocks of monsters filling passageways in several places to make this harder)

[Squidmaster]

Yeah, I was planning to try invisibility next. I don't necessarily want to be able to stealth and disarm at the same time. I just want disarm to have a decent range and work at a reasonable clip. Sure, it's more life-like, but I don't think any of us want to spend 16 days going between 3 maps either.

I could use some advice about backstabbing. My protagonist is doing it more and more lately since he is my stealth specialist, but it seems so finicky that I can't get a good read on it. The only reliable way I can see would be to assign the "thief aggressive", which I don't really want. He is an illusionist/thief after all, and I use his stealth for lots of other things than just backstabbing.

While we're on thief abilities, how does detect illusion work? Is it totally passive or is it rolled into the detect traps button or something? As far as setting traps is concerned, do you have to set them and then lure guys into them basically, or is this an in combat skill as well?

Lastly, I got a mithril ring on a monster just now, but that doesn't show on websites as an option.  I assume it is added by a mod, but my question is, should I sell it or keep it for something?  The description says keep it but it's just a description.

Modifié par Squidmaster, 22 février 2011 - 09:50 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Squidmaster wrote...
I could use some advice about backstabbing. My protagonist is doing it more and more lately since he is my stealth specialist, but it seems so finicky that I can't get a good read on it.

You need to be invisible and behind the enemy when attacking.

The only reliable way I can see would be to assign the "thief aggressive", which I don't really want.

I think you are relying too much on scripts.
Baldur's Gate is different from Dragon Age. You shouldn't program your characters to behave in a certain way but manually order them for best effect.
Yes, that requires more work and takes longer, but that's one of the reasons why the combat system is still so popular after all these years and despite drastically improved animations in newer games.

While we're on thief abilities, how does detect illusion work? Is it totally passive or is it rolled into the detect traps button or something?

When Detect Traps is activated, both traps and illusions are searched for in a small radius around the thief. If your thief succeeds (need some points in Detect Illusions for that), illusions in the area of effect are removed.

As far as setting traps is concerned, do you have to set them and then lure guys into them basically, or is this an in combat skill as well?

Generally you can only set traps when your character cannot see any enemies (just as you can only hide in shadows while you cannot see any enemies), This can be exploited by the spell Blindness (if you feel like crippling yourself) or by walking around corners. A backstabber should be rather mobile anyway, constantly running back and forth between shadows and the backs of his enemies, so it shouldn't be too difficult to set some traps on the way (and if somebody happens to follow yout thief to where you are planning on hiding, the trap may put him out of his misery).
There are many ways to use traps though. The Bounty Hunter's special traps may even be used over a certain distance (so you can lay them even closer to the enemy).

Lastly, I got a mithril ring on a monster just now, but that doesn't show on websites as an option.  I assume it is added by a mod, but my question is, should I sell it or keep it for something?  The description says keep it but it's just a description.

I think you can sell it without worries. At least that's what I did, after about 6 chapters where nobody ran up to me asking for "the 5 Mithril Rings you are carrying in that bag there."

[Squidmaster]

Thanks! The backstab problem is primarily this: I am stealthed with my short sword. I have to move behind the target, who is probably already moving. If I have to take even 1 step after I click to attack him, stealth is considered broken and there is no backstab. It's frustrating.

Also, is it me, or do the "mage improvements" added in SCS basically just mean they are much higher level.  I just loved dealing with Silke at level 1 when she was at least level 7.  Ugh.

Modifié par Squidmaster, 22 février 2011 - 10:26 .

[Bhryaen]

Squidmaster wrote...
Thanks! The backstab problem is primarily this: I am stealthed with my short sword. I have to move behind the target, who is probably already moving. If I have to take even 1 step after I click to attack him, stealth is considered broken and there is no backstab. It's frustrating.

So long as you're still stealthed you can get another attack or two in. I tend to backstab with the idea to run afterward, so I pause as soon as my avatar's swing comes forward, but it often is just a misleading animation swish, so I have to wait until the next one before I find if I've missed or hit. Once you get better THAC0 & attacks per round you'll be more sure of your swings. Bandits are the hardest to backstab because they have serious ADD...

Humanoid_Taifun is right though about "auto-AI." I've had much worse difficulties with NPCs doing things "automatically"... like refusing to retreat because they keep seeing an enemy and thus wanting to attack, or firing an arrow at an enemy automatically when we're supposed to be creeping invisibly into a tactically more advantageous position. And besides, micromanaging can be fun too!

I've actually been meaning to ask about your other thief questions though because I'm not used to the BG2 thief abilitites and system. I don't know how to judge Move Silently, Set Traps, or Detect Illusions. I'm only given 4 categories at level up to invest skill points in: Hide in Shadows, Pickpocket, Open Locks, and Detect Traps. I figured that Move Silently was connected with Hide somehow, but even when my thief got 130% natural Hide, MS was still 10-20%. I thought at first that ST was also just a level-based skill that improved in direct proportion to DT, but I didn't see that happening either and sprung a few traps on myself before noticing I only had 10% in it.

Also, is it me, or do the "mage improvements" added in SCS basically just mean they are much higher level.  I just loved dealing with Silke at level 1 when she was at least level 7.  Ugh.

The SCS1 readme says it better than any sum-up I might make. Clearly it's not just a matter of raising spellcaster levels by several notches but of wisening them, preparing them defensively, and giving them specialist abilities. No matter what level I've been, Silke can cast a mean lightning bolt. And they target your party well also. If you got the component that lets them recognize your possessions, they'll know after one ineffective fireball that it's sime to use magic missile instead.

Smarter Mages
This component substantially increases the intelligence of the wizards (and ogre magi) who encounter the party. Area-effect spells won't be cast so as to kill the caster, wizards will use defensive spells like Invisibility and Minor Globe of Invulnerability, attack spells will be targetted at the most useful target rather than some random summoned monster, etc. Magic items such as wands and scrolls will be used against the party; fighter-mages will use spare moments to attack.
The component also changes the spell choices made by wizards so as to use less hopeless spells, and in some cases to remember to memorize the right number of spells; and in some cases it adjusts a wizard's level to match the spells he actually demonstrates in the game.
As of version 9 of this mod, many wizards will be specialists of one sort or another (I use necromancers, conjurers, invokers and enchanters), and this should - hopefully - lead to a little more variety in the kind of spell use you see.
Also as of version 9, you can choose at install time if wizards will restrict themselves to BG spells - no spell sequencers, no Stoneskins, etc - or if they will memorise and use BG2 spells. Particularly if you choose the first of these, I recommend that you install the "Make Protection from Normal Missiles affect magical projectiles" mod in order to make the wizards have a bit more of a fighting chance.
In addition, you can choose at install time whether or not wizards "pre-buff" - that is, whether they pre-cast a range of defensive spells (Minor Globe, Mirror Image, etc.), simulating the pre-castings that players can do just before a fight starts. Mages presumably prepare in advance for a party's arrival by scrying, scouts etc., but this is impossible to simulate within the game engine. (Mages cast very-long-duration spells (Armor, Stoneskin, Minute Meteors) whether or not you install this component, because they're assumed to have cast them at the start of the day or beforehand.)
Prebuffing is optional because opinions seem to vary about this sort of pre-battle casting. If you normally scout and raise defensive spells yourself, use it in order to ensure a fair fight; if not, you might not want to bother. Note, though, that "Smarter Mages" is primarily designed to use with this component; it's slightly less well optimized if you leave it uninstalled.
Incidentally, if you're worried about realism, it might help to assume (contradicting pen-and-paper D&D, to be sure) that mages can mentally deactivate their running defence spells, rendering them invisible and ineffective, at will. You more or less have to assume something like this for the party anyway, to explain why various people you meet don't bat an eyelid at the panoply of defensive magic swirling around the party mages!

[Squidmaster]

Yeah, you definitely need both of the stealth skills to succeed at it. I would imagine your actual skill equates to the lower of the two, but maybe you can correct me if you found yourself hiding reasonably well with the numbers you mentioned. Detect Illusions doesn't have any use in BG1 I believe, since it didn't exist in the game till 2. I haven't gotten into detect traps yet but I plan to do that after "Pickles" McGee has his stealth effectively maxed out. Speaking of which, does anyone know what the daylight penalty is? Is it just to hide in shadows as I would guess? As such, should I go with something like 120% hide in shadows and 100% move silently for that situation?

I know Silke is at least level 7 because she (and a lot of other mages) cast Stoneskin. Maybe they just increase the levels specifically to be able to cast that one time, I don't know, but it's a bit crazy when the game expects you to deal with Silke at such a low level.

I have a forum question also.  How are you guys managing to have sensible spacing in your posts?  If I space mine with a line break in between as I would in a word processor I get this double spaced thing.  If I just hit enter at the end of one paragraph and start the next there is no space at all between them.

Modifié par Squidmaster, 23 février 2011 - 02:04 .

[Grond0]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
I think you can sell it without worries. At least that's what I did, after about 6 chapters where nobody ran up to me asking for "the 5 Mithril Rings you are carrying in that bag there."

The mithril rings are introduced by BG1 NPC project as part of a quest for Xzar, so if you're not going to use him in your party the only use is to sell them.

There are many ways to use traps though. The Bounty Hunter's special traps may even be used over a certain distance (so you can lay them even closer to the enemy).

I don't use traps very much normally, but it is possible to use them extensively.  I used to regularly use traps to kill golems, e.g. in de'Arnise Hold, but have other strategies now.  In my current no-reload game I did use traps to help kill Firkraag, when he was proving difficult (send thief away from the action to lay a trap, other party members draw Firkraag that way, while thief goes to the other end of the room ...) and this sort of strategy can be used in many combats if you want.

Bhryaen wrote...
So long as you're still stealthed you can get another attack or two in. I tend to backstab with the idea to run afterward, so I pause as soon as my avatar's swing comes forward, but it often is just a misleading animation swish, so I have to wait until the next one before I find if I've missed or hit. Once you get better THAC0 & attacks per round you'll be more sure of your swings. Bandits are the hardest to backstab because they have serious ADD...

It does sound a bit as though you're relying on the animation.  I always have the option to display attack rolls turned on.  That allows you to check whether your character has actually attacked, as well as giving you clues you need when fighting, e.g. if an enemies AC is so good that you need to use magic rather than might.

Squidmaster wrote...
Yeah, you definitely need both of the stealth skills to succeed at it. I would imagine your actual skill equates to the lower of the two, but maybe you can correct me if you found yourself hiding reasonably well with the numbers you mentioned.

Your chance to succeed is the average of the two skills, i.e. there is actually no difference between them (I think this is another instance where Bioware had an idea, but didn't actually implement it in the game mechanics).
 

Detect Illusions doesn't have any use in BG1 I believe, since it didn't exist in the game till 2.

As you are using Tutu you are using the BG2 game engine and therefore Detect Illusions is operational.  You only need 100% in DI to be successful every time at dispelling illusions near the thief.  This would be handy as a precursor to a thief backstab if you didn't have SCS, but as you have you will normally find mages have stoneskin active.

I haven't gotten into detect traps yet but I plan to do that after "Pickles" McGee has his stealth effectively maxed out. Speaking of which, does anyone know what the daylight penalty is? Is it just to hide in shadows as I would guess? As such, should I go with something like 120% hide in shadows and 100% move silently for that situation?

I'm not sure exactly what the penalty is, but think it's more than 20%.  I suspect you would probably need more like 150% (as the average of your 2 skills) to succeed all the time if trying to hide in daylight, i.e. I don't think you will achieve this level in BG1 - stick to using shadows.

I have a forum question also.  How are you guys managing to have sensible spacing in your posts?  If I space mine with a line break in between as I would in a word processor I get this double spaced thing.  If I just hit enter at the end of one paragraph and start the next there is no space at all between them.

Sounds like you're always using the Quick Reply method.  If you use the standard form the line-spacing will work as you expect (and you also have more formatting options - such as Smileys).

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Bhryaen wrote...
So long as you're still stealthed you can get another attack or two in. I tend to backstab with the idea to run afterward, so I pause as soon as my avatar's swing comes forward, but it often is just a misleading animation swish, so I have to wait until the next one before I find if I've missed or hit. Once you get better THAC0 & attacks per round

A thief-mage will always have 1APR - unless using dualweapon style - which is not very beneficial for backstabbing.

I've actually been meaning to ask about your other thief questions though because I'm not used to the BG2 thief abilitites and system. I don't know how to judge Move Silently, Set Traps, or Detect Illusions. I'm only given 4 categories at level up to invest skill points in

Every second newcomer to BG2 asks this question. Maybe somebody should start a betting pool for the old comers, which ones figure it out on their own... (just joking, sorry... )
You can scroll down, the other abilities are below the first ones.

Squidmaster wrote...
Yeah, you definitely need both of the
stealth skills to succeed at it. I would imagine your actual skill
equates to the lower of the two,

Nah, it's one + the other divided by two (so it's the average of both).

Detect Illusions doesn't have any use in BG1 I believe, since it didn't
exist in the game till 2.

But Illusion spells exist. Mirror Image, Invisibility... Lots of them. And your mage is low level, so he won't have infinite spell slots (at least not for any other spell level than 1).

I know Silke is at least level 7 because she (and a
lot of other mages) cast Stoneskin. Maybe they just increase the levels
specifically to be able to cast that one time, I don't know, but it's a
bit crazy when the game expects you to deal with Silke at such a low
level.

You know I did warn you about mages.
You were lucky she was alone this time.

I have a forum question also.  How are you guys managing
to have sensible spacing in your posts?  If I space mine with a line
break in between as I would in a word processor I get this double spaced
thing.  If I just hit enter at the end of one paragraph and start the
next there is no space at all between them.

That's because you use the speed-form for posting. If you click on that little link underneath, ... or use the standard form you'll have access to a lot more formatting options.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 23 février 2011 - 08:20 .

[The Cow King]

Yeah, you definitely need both of the stealth skills to succeed at it. I would imagine your actual skill equates to the lower of the two

False. It's super easy to test in ToB.

You can leave your HiS somewhere around 10 and pump MS to 190 = you will always succeed at hiding.

You can leave your MS somewhere around 10 and pump HiS to 190 = you will always succeeed at hiding.

The daylight penalty however, can mess things up. Even my familiar cat with 99% HiS& MS can fail five times (doesn't luckily happen often though) in a row during daytime.

Modifié par The Cow King, 23 février 2011 - 07:46 .

[Squidmaster]

Do you guys have any general tips against the new improved casters? I don't know that I want to get rid of it, but I could use some advice against it. I am in the level 3-5 range.

[Bhryaen]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Every second newcomer to BG2 asks this question. Maybe somebody should start a betting pool for the old comers, which ones figure it out on their own... (just joking, sorry... )
You can scroll down, the other abilities are below the first ones.

:happy:Well, it was a 50% chance.

Actually I could've checked my BG manual but it seems to have disappeared recently. Also it's online without too much difficulty. However, I'm wondering if the fact that the BG2 thief abilities don't show up on character creation or level up is a result of TutuGUI. I didn't notice any scroll bar to use.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

I doubt it. The bounty hunter kit would be crippled from that change.

[Flamedance]

Just a short note on Silke. She's a lvl 10 Bard. She's that allready in vanilla, SCS doesn't change her level, it just gives her the spellcasting abilities that belong to that lvl.



And yes, tbh it's a bit silly that Bioware placed an npc of that high a lvl in Beregost.

[Grond0]

Squidmaster wrote...

Do you guys have any general tips against the new improved casters? I don't know that I want to get rid of it, but I could use some advice against it. I am in the level 3-5 range.

Depends how cheesy you want to be.  Seeding traps around an enemy who's not hostile, e.g. Silke, can be effective, but is not very realistic real world behaviour.  A bit more realistic is to backstab a known enemy before they declare themselves, although personally I don't like doing that.  You may well be able to kill them quickly at the start of combat anyway if you haven't activated the pre-buff option in SCS, e.g. by throwing in 2 or 3 fireballs together with other attacks. 

If you fail to manage this you are likely to have trouble as they will probably go improved invisibility, heal themselves and put up magic protection and then unload potentially fatal spells on you.  My tactic at this stage is for everyone to scatter and preferably hide, e.g. in buildings.  Usually doing this will mean that at most one of your characters will die (make sure that your main character is first away from the action) and the others can reform for another attempt after a while when the spell protections have worn off.  You may need to do this 2 or 3 times to get rid of the protections before closing in for the kill (still being wary with your main character).

[Squidmaster]

My backstabbing is pretty terrible as an illusionist thief but I have been trying that some. The trouble is that usually the fight begins with dialogue.



I encountered a bit of a situation today that maybe you can help me resolve. I am in the blacksmith in Beregost looking at the Dagger of Venom. It says the proficiency for it is "short blade", which of course doesn't exist with Tutu. Does this mean that anyone using the dagger of venom will have the proficiency penalty in play? Other daggers show the correct "dagger" skill.

[The Cow King]

Squidmaster wrote...

My backstabbing is pretty terrible as an illusionist thief but I have been trying that some. The trouble is that usually the fight begins with dialogue.

I encountered a bit of a situation today that maybe you can help me resolve. I am in the blacksmith in Beregost looking at the Dagger of Venom. It says the proficiency for it is "short blade", which of course doesn't exist with Tutu. Does this mean that anyone using the dagger of venom will have the proficiency penalty in play? Other daggers show the correct "dagger" skill.

I have dagger of venom on my wild mage, but I never noticed the proficiency error (until now).

I also tested, it counts as dagger, because I'm profient in daggers but not  in quarterstaves, and my thaco drops from 15 to over 20 if I switch from DoV (+2) to Quarterstaff +1.

Also all hits against held, unconscious, webbed etc... targets are automatic hits, if you ever have problems with thaco. Web is my favorite, you can either use a ring of free action or Globe of Minor Invulnerability to avoid getting stuck yourself.

Backstabbing also requires some micromanaging (running behind obstacles so you can hide when you lose sight of your target), or simply running outside their sight with boots of speed. It gets alot easier in BG2 (mislead), if you're thief/mage.

Modifié par The Cow King, 24 février 2011 - 12:31 .

[The Cow King]

Double post, weird lag.

Modifié par The Cow King, 23 février 2011 - 11:59 .

[Squidmaster]

Random question - is there a trick to lugging ankheg shells to the smith?  I can only carry 4 or *maybe* 5 if I remove one character's gear, and it's a long trip.

Nevermind.  I guess I can only sell either one or make the armor.  Bummer!  If this is false let me know.  All of the forum posts on the subject say I can sell them as long as I don't keep more than 1 on me at a time, but selling the smith a single shell stops it for good for me.

Modifié par Squidmaster, 24 février 2011 - 04:31 .

[Grond0]

Squidmaster wrote...

Random question - is there a trick to lugging ankheg shells to the smith?  I can only carry 4 or *maybe* 5 if I remove one character's gear, and it's a long trip.

Nevermind.  I guess I can only sell either one or make the armor.  Bummer!  If this is false let me know.  All of the forum posts on the subject say I can sell them as long as I don't keep more than 1 on me at a time, but selling the smith a single shell stops it for good for me.

If you have a bag of holding introduced by a mod then you can stash them all in there, but, yes, a mod has restricted the smith's appetite for shells.  There is a character in Baldur's Gate that wants shells - I've not checked whether he still wants an infinite number.

[Bhryaen]

Grond0 wrote...
There is a character in Baldur's Gate that wants shells - I've not checked whether he still wants an infinite number.

I don't know which mod, but I recall last game that he only wanted one. Although if you approach him with 20, he takes all 20, but pays you the same as with one.

[Squidmaster]

Did the mod change that on purpose or by accident?

[wise grimwald]

One of the mods actually makes it so that you cannot sell any shells to the man in Baldur's Gate.



In the vanilla version you can carry the shells to the edge of the hunting area. Then pick them up and take them to Beregost. If you are ambushed, you will have to drop them in order to move as you will be overladen. (Potions could help) On arrival in Beregost, leave them in a heap on the ground apart from one. take one character to the smith. Speak to him to sell the shell. Pick up a shell, speak to him again, sell it, pick up a shell again etc. etc. I've forgotten how many you can sell, but it's quite a lot.

[Squidmaster]

Huh, fair enough.



I have yet another question. My main character is both my face man and my stealther. This means that a lot of the time, guys who walk up to talk to my group wind up talking to someone else. Does this mean my charisma is wasted? What do you do in this situation?

[wise grimwald]

Having Imoen or Ajantis leading your group is one solution.