196 réponses à ce sujet

[Elite Midget]

The reason is simple...



Consoles.



I kid, I kid.



Though really, Bethesda gets the same scorn for lifelessness. Luckily the modding tools can remedy this for PC versions.

[Saibh]

Really? We only saw a brief clip of Kirkwall during the day. The rest was at night.

[Giantdeathrobot]

 I think it's functionnal to put a relatively empty city if all the NPCs have something different to say (even the generic ones generaly had some unique speech to tell you). New Vegas was a gem of a game, but I nearly lost it with the generic NPC chatter. I friggin know it's been a long tour and you want to get back home, I heard it five or six times during my visit, even the damn Colonel told me! And Primm didn't wimp out and accept NRC rule! I gave it an awesome robot sheriff! What the hell are you ten talking about<_
Erm, anyways, Assassin's Creed could get away with it because A) NPCs were completely generic and could not be interacted with in any way if they did not glow white if you look closely, they are superbly ugly and lower-textured than main characters and C) they were spawned as the game went (sometimes before your very eyes, too), meaning they virtually dissapeared if you went too far. Whereas Bioware and Bethesda/Obsidian use fixed NPCs that always stay in their place.

Also, the only place in DA that had lots of NPCs (like, a realistic proportion for a city) was at the Alienage during the Landsmeet plot, and it always made my game lag (I've also seen it lag the game on the 360). So if they have to make a choice, I say stick to the old way, because it favors RPGs.

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

i actually like what they have been able to do with such a short time span...they improved the things that needed improvement and thwe things most care about....if you like you can start a petition to cancel da2 and have them start a new game so they can make a believable world...you only have so much time to do things and i think bioware has done all the right things for the sequel with theirs....

[Kileyan]

This really doesn't bother me. I imagined a busy huge city, even when all we had was a circular path, a tavern, 3 shops, and a couple "alley" zones. If we want to get nit picky, we need to actually have a proper large city before we complain it isn't full of people:)



Really though, I can't imagine this will bother me in the game. I'm ok with filling in the gaps with my imagination.



Beyond that, people keep throwing out numbers, like we spend 90 percent of the game in Kirkwall, it should be fleshed out better! I hope people are wrong. I understand Kirkwall is important, our home and base of operations, but I hope we aren't spending most of our time in the game there. I can only look at city streets and dirty back alleys for so long.

[Phoenixblight]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

i actually like what they have been able to do with such a short time span...they improved the things that needed improvement and thwe things most care about....if you like you can start a petition to cancel da2 and have them start a new game so they can make a believable world...you only have so much time to do things and i think bioware has done all the right things for the sequel with theirs....

Petitions don't work this is not a democracy. They create a game, if you don't like it you simply "vote" with your dollor. 

Modifié par Phoenixblight, 17 février 2011 - 02:19 .

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

Phoenixblight wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

i actually like what they have been able to do with such a short time span...they improved the things that needed improvement and thwe things most care about....if you like you can start a petition to cancel da2 and have them start a new game so they can make a believable world...you only have so much time to do things and i think bioware has done all the right things for the sequel with theirs....

Petitions don't work this is not a democracy. They create a game, if you don't like it you simply "vote" with your dollor. 

i wasnt being serious...i was trying to show that for the release of da2 to be march 8 they could only do so much in a given time frame....

[Apolyon6k]

A realistic city in a middle age comparable setting would not be populated by millions of people and as being part of an action game there is danger lurking around every corner. So why should people be on the streets? To get killed by a stray arrow or a misplaced spell?

In DAO there was a blight at the horizon and people were scared to leave their homes, in DA2 it would be Qunaris or demons or whatever.

When I was playing DAO I was surpriced to find any people on the streets at all, some of them going about their business as if everything was fine, no threat at all.
In the cutscenes the populace was shown to go to war or saying goodbye to loved ones. The Landsmeet was crowded with nobles from all over ferelden because they all wanted there grief to be heard.

We have no numbers of actual population of a mayor city in thedas so speculating if it is crowded or not seams kind of pointless despite being part of the whole immersion.

Modifié par Apolyon6k, 17 février 2011 - 02:24 .

[Phoenixblight]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

i actually like what they have been able to do with such a short time span...they improved the things that needed improvement and thwe things most care about....if you like you can start a petition to cancel da2 and have them start a new game so they can make a believable world...you only have so much time to do things and i think bioware has done all the right things for the sequel with theirs....

Petitions don't work this is not a democracy. They create a game, if you don't like it you simply "vote" with your dollor. 

i wasnt being serious...i was trying to show that for the release of da2 to be march 8 they could only do so much in a given time frame....

I understand that part but in the sentence prior to that you say don't like it create a petition to have Bioware create a new game. Are You trying to be humorous? Instead of saying go cry in a corner you say create pointless petition because the game is already gold and there is no stopping the process now.

Modifié par Phoenixblight, 17 février 2011 - 02:27 .

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

Phoenixblight wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

i actually like what they have been able to do with such a short time span...they improved the things that needed improvement and thwe things most care about....if you like you can start a petition to cancel da2 and have them start a new game so they can make a believable world...you only have so much time to do things and i think bioware has done all the right things for the sequel with theirs....

Petitions don't work this is not a democracy. They create a game, if you don't like it you simply "vote" with your dollor. 

i wasnt being serious...i was trying to show that for the release of da2 to be march 8 they could only do so much in a given time frame....

I understand that part but in the sentence prior to that you say don't like it create a petition to have Bioware create a new game. Are You trying to be humorous? Instead of saying go cry in a corner you say create pointless petition because the game is already gold and there is no stopping the process now.

yes i was being humorous...or at least attempting to be unsuccessfully....o well...there is always next time for laughs

[Dr. Nexas]

Most people run away when they see Hawke coming, as they don't want to be caught in the crossover of his latest fight.

[Wishpig]

Apolyon6k wrote...

A realistic city in a middle age comparable setting would not be populated by millions of people and as being part of an action game there is danger lurking around every corner. So why should people be on the streets? To get killed by a stray arrow or a misplaced spell?

In DAO there was a blight at the horizon and people were scared to leave their homes, in DA2 it would be Qunaris or demons or whatever.

When I was playing DAO I was surpriced to find any people on the streets at all, some of them going about their business as if everything was fine, no threat at all.
In the cutscenes the populace was shown to go to war or saying goodbye to loved ones. The Landsmeet was crowded with nobles from all over ferelden because they all wanted there grief to be heard.

We have no numbers of actual population of a mayor city in thedas so speculating if it is crowded or not seams kind of pointless despite being part of the whole immersion.

I'm sure the people aren't saying to themselves "well it looks a little action gamey outside today, I'll think I'll stay in."

Modifié par Wishpig, 17 février 2011 - 02:33 .

[Rimfrost]

If their engine can't handle it the then I'm a little surpassed they decided to put the brunt of the story in Kirkwall. It will be interesting to see if it feels as empty whe you play and have atmosphere through music and as other correctly pointed out most gameplay was from night time so perhaps it will be lively enough during the day. We will soon find out. Perhaps as early as next weekG

Modifié par Rimfrost, 17 février 2011 - 02:36 .

[The Night Haunter]

Well fact 1 - Thedas is Pre Industrial Revolution.



This means that the majority of people will still live in small towns and farms, with only the very wealthy and very poor living in cities. A middle class did not exist prior to the industrial and agricultural revolutions. So a city like Hong Kong is completely impossible in Thedas. A city like New York is highly improbable. And a city like Washington DC is moderatly unlikely.



Fact 2 - We have only seen versions of the game that the Dev's felt conforatble showing us.

A common misconception is that whenever we see images or videos of the game that is the most current and up to date build of the game. WRONG. Their are several Environments in the development of a product, Production, Q/A, Performance, Development are the ones Ive found to be most common, they are in reverse order of who gets it, when dev finishes it goes to Perf etc.



The Production version (Im using Production because the products ive worked on have been maintenance type things so i dont know what the most 'complete' {ie bug free and post Q/A test} version is called) is usually at the least several weeks and probably atleast a month older than the Development Version and also even a couple weeks behind the Q/A version. What is shown to us isnt even the Production version. So what we see is months old. The 'Gone Gold' version of the game has yet to be seen, besides potentially a few review copies.



So basing what the final product looks like from a preproduction build is folly.



Fact 3 -

[mariosgh]

Apolyon6k wrote...
[...]

We have no numbers of actual population of a mayor city in thedas so speculating if it is crowded or not seams kind of pointless despite being part of the whole immersion.

But number on building and scenery suggest that this city should be crowded. It's weird when you see such big city, which is empty.

[MColes]

Blacklash93 wrote...

For a bustling capital city overpopulated with desperate refugees... Kirkwall is surprisingly empty.

In the live demo, we can there's barely anyone walking around and those that are seem to be walking in short, jagged paths. You could look down an entire road and not see more than 4 people. These city enviroments look pretty expansive, with wide open streets and big plazas, but there's nothing filling these spaces...

The Refugees are OUTSIDE the city.  There is a difference, only some people are let inside.  The Hawke's happen to be some of them, and earn that through the story.

[addiction21]

mariosgh wrote...

Apolyon6k wrote...
[...]

We have no numbers of actual population of a mayor city in thedas so speculating if it is crowded or not seams kind of pointless despite being part of the whole immersion.

But number on building and scenery suggest that this city should be crowded. It's weird when you see such big city, which is empty.

Do you just hang out side your building all day and night? There is no mass transit either so you dont have hundreds of thousands of people commuting into these cities either.

[tmp7704]

addiction21 wrote...

Do you just hang out side your building all day and night?

The idea of organized factories is relatively new. Before then your "building" would be frequently used also as your work place.

So basically, yes.

(that would be more of "around your building" rather than specifically outside. Still, it's really not unreasonable to expect some activity on city streets. Even something on level of Planescape would be decent enough)

Modifié par tmp7704, 17 février 2011 - 05:30 .

[sickserb]

i like how a bioware still hasn't responded here :/

[Kileyan]

MColes wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

For a bustling capital city overpopulated with desperate refugees... Kirkwall is surprisingly empty.

In the live demo, we can there's barely anyone walking around and those that are seem to be walking in short, jagged paths. You could look down an entire road and not see more than 4 people. These city enviroments look pretty expansive, with wide open streets and big plazas, but there's nothing filling these spaces...

The Refugees are OUTSIDE the city.  There is a difference, only some people are let inside.  The Hawke's happen to be some of them, and earn that through the story.

A city is a city for a reason. If if was a backwater area with a population of 40, it would be called a village or a farm town.

Regardless of if they let refugees in the city, this is a city. It became that because people were attracted to this area for commerce, jobs and making a living. The stone walls, many building, paved streets didn't happen first. They happened because the city was full of people that made it possible.

The rich go to work everyday, maybe with body guards if they are rich enough. The poor go to work everyday because no matter how dangerous it is, they don't work, they don't eat or keep their dwelling. These people choose to live and work there, if they wanted to move out into the farms they would, but they are not farmers, and wouldn't know what to do outside the city.

Short version, quit making up reasons for why there are no crowds in the city. I'd much rather  admit Bioware didn't have time, than try to explain this city actually has no people living there:) That is silly.

I don't mind at all, I can imagine it is a busy city, without having to turn down all my graphics everytime I enter the city full of scores of useless random people wandering around.

[White_Buffalo94]

Blacklash93 wrote...

For a bustling capital city overpopulated with desperate refugees... Kirkwall is surprisingly empty.

In the live demo, we can there's barely anyone walking around and those that are seem to be walking in short, jagged paths. You could look down an entire road and not see more than 4 people. These city enviroments look pretty expansive, with wide open streets and big plazas, but there's nothing filling these spaces...

To be fair, the parts we have seen are the parts where the city hasn't taken in refugees yet I believe. If that is the case, it would not be crowded until later years. Also, no refugees are in Hightown, all are in Lowtown. So even if they have allowed refugees into Kirkwall, they would all be in Lowtown, which we have seen probably 5-10 seconds of.
Still, you could be right and the cities are just lifeless. I just hope they aren't, such as the alienage being called so crowded there are lines of people on the walls begging, which we never get to see.

[Mr-Ludluck]

ghostmessiah202 wrote...

Well fact 1 - Thedas is Pre Industrial Revolution.

This means that the majority of people will still live in small towns and farms, with only the very wealthy and very poor living in cities. A middle class did not exist prior to the industrial and agricultural revolutions. So a city like Hong Kong is completely impossible in Thedas. A city like New York is highly improbable. And a city like Washington DC is moderatly unlikely.

Fact 2 - We have only seen versions of the game that the Dev's felt conforatble showing us.
A common misconception is that whenever we see images or videos of the game that is the most current and up to date build of the game. WRONG. Their are several Environments in the development of a product, Production, Q/A, Performance, Development are the ones Ive found to be most common, they are in reverse order of who gets it, when dev finishes it goes to Perf etc.

The Production version (Im using Production because the products ive worked on have been maintenance type things so i dont know what the most 'complete' {ie bug free and post Q/A test} version is called) is usually at the least several weeks and probably atleast a month older than the Development Version and also even a couple weeks behind the Q/A version. What is shown to us isnt even the Production version. So what we see is months old. The 'Gone Gold' version of the game has yet to be seen, besides potentially a few review copies.

So basing what the final product looks like from a preproduction build is folly.

Fact 3 -

Yes, thank you. A sensible person on this thread, joy of joys.

[Sakanade]

I agree, the city is so called "Full" as to Hawke not even being allowed entry at first.



Yet in the live Demo clips it looks even more desolate than Denerim

[WidowMaker9394]

You were expecting Assassins Creed Brotherhood?

[packardbell]

This is not an issue for me.