196 réponses à ce sujet

[terrordactyl1]

Well it has to run on console too. I imagine that hundreds of active npc's moving around a city would hit the memory and graphics chips very hard.

[hawat333]

How do you know it is that lifeless when the game isn't even out?

It's possible, I mean, but we haven't seen it in its full glory yet.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Yrkoon wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...
It is not one or the other. The people on the streets don't need lines. If the engine can handle it, placing a non-interactive NPC in the environment shouldn't take much effort.

Oh great idea there.  Bring on the the mimes and the inanimate people !

Yeah, that'll make the city look real and "bustling"

How about "Sorry, I don't talk to stranger". or "leave me alone".. or "Why are you listening in on our conversation? Please move away sir!"
A few lines. After all, not everyone WANTS to talk to you.

Do you go around teh city talking to every person on the street.
A lively city means a city that feels like it's being lived in. It means there being epople doing s***, and not standing inamitately.

Like a woman passing by a store and stopping to look at the window. A blackmith forging a balde. People talking (you dont' really need to understand or hear what they are talking.)

[Parkimus]

^ agreed

[Dubya75]

Phoenixblight wrote...

They can't exactly do that there are hardware and software restrictions to get the 30FPS. I honestly can't remember a game that had a city that was actually full of people. Hmmm

You clearly haven't played Assassins Creed. It is possible to achieve.

[ROD525]

Dubya75 wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

They can't exactly do that there are hardware and software restrictions to get the 30FPS. I honestly can't remember a game that had a city that was actually full of people. Hmmm

You clearly haven't played Assassins Creed. It is possible to achieve.

Just got done with AC brotherhood and if Bioware could make their citys a quarter as alive as the AC series I would be happy. The fact that I could be ruthless and people would comment and back away blew my mind. The little details really help to maintain immersion,I really felt like I was in 15th century Italy.

[RiverLucky]

ROD525 wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

They can't exactly do that there are hardware and software restrictions to get the 30FPS. I honestly can't remember a game that had a city that was actually full of people. Hmmm

You clearly haven't played Assassins Creed. It is possible to achieve.

Just got done with AC brotherhood and if Bioware could make their citys a quarter as alive as the AC series I would be happy. The fact that I could be ruthless and people would comment and back away blew my mind. The little details really help to maintain immersion,I really felt like I was in 15th century Italy.

Well it's too late to complain now anyway, the game has gone gold...

For me it's the NPC's who stand at the exact same place all the time...

[FurousJoe]

This is why the Scimitar/Anvil engine (Assassin's Creed series) is so ****ing amazing, it handles a ton of NPC's so well, makes the envirnoments come alive!

It's kinda funny because even when Assasin's Creed is an open world game with only load times between HUGE areas the graphics are tons better than DAO/DA2. Just goes to show what happens when you put experienced people on building your engine.

Not saying DA2 graphics wont cut it, because they will, they're completely fine. BUT it would have been a much more visually appealing game if they just licensed a better engine instead of this inhouse stuff.

terrordactyl1 wrote...

Well it has to run on console too. I imagine that hundreds of active npc's moving around a city would hit the memory and graphics chips very hard.

Again, assassin's creed. 'nuf said.

Modifié par FurousJoe, 17 février 2011 - 04:12 .

[bloodreaperfx]

Its Varric's storytelling. Selfish dwarf is selfish. No love for Kirkwall's inhabitants.



On a more serious note, they probably didn't include too many NPC's out of pure designing choice. The hardware power argument drops, as there are pleny games with a fair number of NPCs on screen at once. (GTA, Oblivion, Fable, etc).



I think The Witcher did an amazing job with idle NPC's. You can't really interact with them but they seem to go about their own buisness, hide from the rain ,etc.



Mind you, this is not a game-breaking or serious factor in whether I'll enjoy the game or not.

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

bloodreaperfx wrote...

Its Varric's storytelling. Selfish dwarf is selfish. No love for Kirkwall's inhabitants.

On a more serious note, they probably didn't include too many NPC's out of pure designing choice. The hardware power argument drops, as there are pleny games with a fair number of NPCs on screen at once. (GTA, Oblivion, Fable, etc).

I think The Witcher did an amazing job with idle NPC's. You can't really interact with them but they seem to go about their own buisness, hide from the rain ,etc.

Mind you, this is not a game-breaking or serious factor in whether I'll enjoy the game or not.

good point about reminding people that it is a story being told...i doubt that cassandra would want to hear about all of the normal people talking about the day.....
also silly to comment about AC/ GTA and there crowds...both have bustling cities but thats it...no one can argue that the shooting mechanics are the best in GTA. And as satisfying as AC's combat is it is just stabbing people in the gut over and over.....ill choose much better gameplay over crowds that gasp any day of the week

Modifié par TGFKAMAdmaX, 17 février 2011 - 04:40 .

[Russalka]

The lag will be horrendous with too many people.

[FurousJoe]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

bloodreaperfx wrote...

Its Varric's storytelling. Selfish dwarf is selfish. No love for Kirkwall's inhabitants.

On a more serious note, they probably didn't include too many NPC's out of pure designing choice. The hardware power argument drops, as there are pleny games with a fair number of NPCs on screen at once. (GTA, Oblivion, Fable, etc).

I think The Witcher did an amazing job with idle NPC's. You can't really interact with them but they seem to go about their own buisness, hide from the rain ,etc.

Mind you, this is not a game-breaking or serious factor in whether I'll enjoy the game or not.

good point about reminding people that it is a story being told...i doubt that cassandra would want to hear about all of the normal people talking about the day.....
also silly to comment about AC/ GTA and there crowds...both have bustling cities but thats it...no one can argue that the shooting mechanics are the best in GTA. And as satisfying as AC's combat is it is just stabbing people in the gut over and over.....ill choose much better gameplay over crowds that gasp any day of the week

You understand we could go on all day about the things any of those games do better than the other right?

Simple fact is that one doesn't exclude the other, you can have both.

[bloodreaperfx]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

bloodreaperfx wrote...

Its Varric's storytelling. Selfish dwarf is selfish. No love for Kirkwall's inhabitants.

On a more serious note, they probably didn't include too many NPC's out of pure designing choice. The hardware power argument drops, as there are pleny games with a fair number of NPCs on screen at once. (GTA, Oblivion, Fable, etc).

I think The Witcher did an amazing job with idle NPC's. You can't really interact with them but they seem to go about their own buisness, hide from the rain ,etc.

Mind you, this is not a game-breaking or serious factor in whether I'll enjoy the game or not.

good point about reminding people that it is a story being told...i doubt that cassandra would want to hear about all of the normal people talking about the day.....
also silly to comment about AC/ GTA and there crowds...both have bustling cities but thats it...no one can argue that the shooting mechanics are the best in GTA. And as satisfying as AC's combat is it is just stabbing people in the gut over and over.....ill choose much better gameplay over crowds that gasp any day of the week

The comparison was not betwen game mechanics or features. It was purely from a Hardware point of view. Someone said less npc's = moar framerates, to put it bluntly, which is simply not true with today's mid or even entry-level PC's or consoles.

[tmp7704]

Russalka wrote...

The lag will be horrendous with too many people.

Not necessarily -- DAO would quite a few times show 20+ units on screen, be it in the Deep Roads or in Denerim during the darkspawn attack. That without horrendous lag. And it's decent enough number to put some crowd on the screen.

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

FurousJoe wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

bloodreaperfx wrote...

Its Varric's storytelling. Selfish dwarf is selfish. No love for Kirkwall's inhabitants.

On a more serious note, they probably didn't include too many NPC's out of pure designing choice. The hardware power argument drops, as there are pleny games with a fair number of NPCs on screen at once. (GTA, Oblivion, Fable, etc).

I think The Witcher did an amazing job with idle NPC's. You can't really interact with them but they seem to go about their own buisness, hide from the rain ,etc.

Mind you, this is not a game-breaking or serious factor in whether I'll enjoy the game or not.

good point about reminding people that it is a story being told...i doubt that cassandra would want to hear about all of the normal people talking about the day.....
also silly to comment about AC/ GTA and there crowds...both have bustling cities but thats it...no one can argue that the shooting mechanics are the best in GTA. And as satisfying as AC's combat is it is just stabbing people in the gut over and over.....ill choose much better gameplay over crowds that gasp any day of the week

You understand we could go on all day about the things any of those games do better than the other right?

Simple fact is that one doesn't exclude the other, you can have both.

read my earlier posts.....i clearly say you can only do so much with ur given time....now if you had a time machine then maybe you could go back a year and a half and then tell the team that you would like better crowds at the expense of gameplay or  a later release date however i doubt you would...then you would be complaining about the later release date.....

and to say we could go on arguing about what those games are better in is only reinforcing my point.......if you can point out a game that is the perfect including combat, storytelling, and bustling crowds...along with graphics and anything else......than you may have a point. But what i am saying is this game is focusing on combat and story....AC on corwd immersion.....so stop ur bellyaching about crowds when we should be so lucky to have a great sequel coming out so soon

[FurousJoe]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

FurousJoe wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

bloodreaperfx wrote...

Its Varric's storytelling. Selfish dwarf is selfish. No love for Kirkwall's inhabitants.

On a more serious note, they probably didn't include too many NPC's out of pure designing choice. The hardware power argument drops, as there are pleny games with a fair number of NPCs on screen at once. (GTA, Oblivion, Fable, etc).

I think The Witcher did an amazing job with idle NPC's. You can't really interact with them but they seem to go about their own buisness, hide from the rain ,etc.

Mind you, this is not a game-breaking or serious factor in whether I'll enjoy the game or not.

good point about reminding people that it is a story being told...i doubt that cassandra would want to hear about all of the normal people talking about the day.....
also silly to comment about AC/ GTA and there crowds...both have bustling cities but thats it...no one can argue that the shooting mechanics are the best in GTA. And as satisfying as AC's combat is it is just stabbing people in the gut over and over.....ill choose much better gameplay over crowds that gasp any day of the week

You understand we could go on all day about the things any of those games do better than the other right?

Simple fact is that one doesn't exclude the other, you can have both.

read my earlier posts.....i clearly say you can only do so much with ur given time....now if you had a time machine then maybe you could go back a year and a half and then tell the team that you would like better crowds at the expense of gameplay or  a later release date however i doubt you would...then you would be complaining about the later release date.....

and to say we could go on arguing about what those games are better in is only reinforcing my point.......if you can point out a game that is the perfect including combat, storytelling, and bustling crowds...along with graphics and anything else......than you may have a point. But what i am saying is this game is focusing on combat and story....AC on corwd immersion.....so stop ur bellyaching about crowds when we should be so lucky to have a great sequel coming out so soon

Wow. umm. Okay....

*slowly back out, realising there's even more hardcore DA fans than myself*

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

FurousJoe wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

FurousJoe wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

bloodreaperfx wrote...

Its Varric's storytelling. Selfish dwarf is selfish. No love for Kirkwall's inhabitants.

On a more serious note, they probably didn't include too many NPC's out of pure designing choice. The hardware power argument drops, as there are pleny games with a fair number of NPCs on screen at once. (GTA, Oblivion, Fable, etc).

I think The Witcher did an amazing job with idle NPC's. You can't really interact with them but they seem to go about their own buisness, hide from the rain ,etc.

Mind you, this is not a game-breaking or serious factor in whether I'll enjoy the game or not.

good point about reminding people that it is a story being told...i doubt that cassandra would want to hear about all of the normal people talking about the day.....
also silly to comment about AC/ GTA and there crowds...both have bustling cities but thats it...no one can argue that the shooting mechanics are the best in GTA. And as satisfying as AC's combat is it is just stabbing people in the gut over and over.....ill choose much better gameplay over crowds that gasp any day of the week

You understand we could go on all day about the things any of those games do better than the other right?

Simple fact is that one doesn't exclude the other, you can have both.

read my earlier posts.....i clearly say you can only do so much with ur given time....now if you had a time machine then maybe you could go back a year and a half and then tell the team that you would like better crowds at the expense of gameplay or  a later release date however i doubt you would...then you would be complaining about the later release date.....

and to say we could go on arguing about what those games are better in is only reinforcing my point.......if you can point out a game that is the perfect including combat, storytelling, and bustling crowds...along with graphics and anything else......than you may have a point. But what i am saying is this game is focusing on combat and story....AC on corwd immersion.....so stop ur bellyaching about crowds when we should be so lucky to have a great sequel coming out so soon

Wow. umm. Okay....

*slowly back out, realising there's even more hardcore DA fans than myself*

sorry if im abrasive...i get worked up over this because no one is going "we want better immersion despite the cost" whatever it may be...everyone is crying and saying they want it with no cost...except the ones that arent....

[tmp7704]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

at the expense of (..)  a later release date however i doubt you would...then you would be complaining about the later release date.....

I wouldn't mind if the game was announced from the start with say, half year later release date and certainly wouldn't see it as something to complain about -- that'd be still effectively what, less than two years after DAO and year and half after Awakening? When DA2 was initially announced people were actually surprised it'd come out so fast, if anything.

[FurousJoe]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

FurousJoe wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

FurousJoe wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

bloodreaperfx wrote...

Its Varric's storytelling. Selfish dwarf is selfish. No love for Kirkwall's inhabitants.

On a more serious note, they probably didn't include too many NPC's out of pure designing choice. The hardware power argument drops, as there are pleny games with a fair number of NPCs on screen at once. (GTA, Oblivion, Fable, etc).

I think The Witcher did an amazing job with idle NPC's. You can't really interact with them but they seem to go about their own buisness, hide from the rain ,etc.

Mind you, this is not a game-breaking or serious factor in whether I'll enjoy the game or not.

good point about reminding people that it is a story being told...i doubt that cassandra would want to hear about all of the normal people talking about the day.....
also silly to comment about AC/ GTA and there crowds...both have bustling cities but thats it...no one can argue that the shooting mechanics are the best in GTA. And as satisfying as AC's combat is it is just stabbing people in the gut over and over.....ill choose much better gameplay over crowds that gasp any day of the week

You understand we could go on all day about the things any of those games do better than the other right?

Simple fact is that one doesn't exclude the other, you can have both.

read my earlier posts.....i clearly say you can only do so much with ur given time....now if you had a time machine then maybe you could go back a year and a half and then tell the team that you would like better crowds at the expense of gameplay or  a later release date however i doubt you would...then you would be complaining about the later release date.....

and to say we could go on arguing about what those games are better in is only reinforcing my point.......if you can point out a game that is the perfect including combat, storytelling, and bustling crowds...along with graphics and anything else......than you may have a point. But what i am saying is this game is focusing on combat and story....AC on corwd immersion.....so stop ur bellyaching about crowds when we should be so lucky to have a great sequel coming out so soon

Wow. umm. Okay....

*slowly back out, realising there's even more hardcore DA fans than myself*

sorry if im abrasive...i get worked up over this because no one is going "we want better immersion despite the cost" whatever it may be...everyone is crying and saying they want it with no cost...except the ones that arent....

Look I understand we can't have everything we want, but to say they couldn't have done it is not really true. A major contributing factor is of course their inhouse engine which appearently isn't capable of crowds. But it doesn't really matter, the game is done, I'm going to love it, but one can still dream of better games right?

[The Spirit of Dance]

Lifeless? i think its too early to form an opinion like Lifeless yet.

[bloodreaperfx]

"More NPC's in Kirkwall" - DLC. 5$.



It could happen

[ROD525]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

bloodreaperfx wrote...

Its Varric's storytelling. Selfish dwarf is selfish. No love for Kirkwall's inhabitants.

On a more serious note, they probably didn't include too many NPC's out of pure designing choice. The hardware power argument drops, as there are pleny games with a fair number of NPCs on screen at once. (GTA, Oblivion, Fable, etc).

I think The Witcher did an amazing job with idle NPC's. You can't really interact with them but they seem to go about their own buisness, hide from the rain ,etc.

Mind you, this is not a game-breaking or serious factor in whether I'll enjoy the game or not.

good point about reminding people that it is a story being told...i doubt that cassandra would want to hear about all of the normal people talking about the day.....
also silly to comment about AC/ GTA and there crowds...both have bustling cities but thats it...no one can argue that the shooting mechanics are the best in GTA. And as satisfying as AC's combat is it is just stabbing people in the gut over and over.....ill choose much better gameplay over crowds that gasp any day of the week

If thats all you got out of the combat then you barely touched the surface.
But back on topic why cant we have good combat and a bustling city?

[bloodreaperfx]

^ It seems the game's engine is not optimized for crowds display.

[FurousJoe]

bloodreaperfx wrote...

^ It seems the game's engine is not optimized for crowds display.

Actually in some parts of DAO even though I have a beastly computer that rips Crysis a new one, I actually had stuttering in a few fights due to large numbers of NPC's. The one I remember the most is the wolf fight in lothering at the chantry board. It always lagged my computer a bit even though I'm twice or tripple the recommend requirements.