Interesting read, even if they miss the point in some areas (such as "ammo" and the fact that Liara is the only guaranteed survivor while ignoring LotSB). It's good to see some professional reviewers also pointing out some of ME2's faults again too.
www.pcgamer.com/2011/02/16/15-things-we-want-to-see-in-mass-effect-3/
PC Gamer's "15 things we want to see in Mass Effect 3" list.
Débuté par
Terror_K
, févr. 17 2011 07:59
Retour en haut
#3
Posté 17 février 2011 - 08:17
Milana_Saros
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Wow...the Character - Fate chart makes the whole Liara-thing even more obvious and painful.
#4
Posté 17 février 2011 - 08:19
Bogsnot1
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Point 15 invalidates the entire list. The author assume everyone has the hots for a faceless bunch of pixelated hips.
Sure, I like Tali, but no more than I like Liara, Miranda, Jack, Wrex, Garrus or any of the other bunches of pixels that are on my screen.
Sure, I like Tali, but no more than I like Liara, Miranda, Jack, Wrex, Garrus or any of the other bunches of pixels that are on my screen.
#5
Posté 17 février 2011 - 08:19
Terror_K
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Bann Duncan wrote...
Liara can die in LotSB?
No, but... well... let's just say events in LotSB would seem to strongly indicate that she wouldn't be a squaddie again in ME3.
#6
Posté 17 février 2011 - 08:19
Harmless Crunch
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Like Bann Duncan said I didn't think Liara could die in LOSTB?
#7
Posté 17 février 2011 - 08:33
Bann Duncan
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I've played it, Terror. My point is just that she's still alive.
Modifié par Bann Duncan, 17 février 2011 - 08:33 .
#8
Posté 17 février 2011 - 08:39
Ulathar
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Kaiden
Why is it so hard to spell his name right? o_0
All in all, though, I see lots of good points there. Good find.
#9
Posté 17 février 2011 - 08:53
CannotCompute
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Terror_K wrote...
No, but... well... let's just say events in LotSB would seem to strongly indicate that she wouldn't be a squaddie again in ME3.
Indeed.
Also, Wrex will (most likely) be leading a Krogan army against the Reapers.
Anyway, the points in the article that I fully agree with:
- More varied combat (2);
- Still having a galaxy to explore (3);
- Broader choice of weapons (4);
- A mix of the personal and epic (7);
- Not working for Cerberus (have the choice not to) (9);
- Better class abilities (11)
#10
Posté 17 février 2011 - 09:08
Jebel Krong
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they don't miss the point, they just don't have your priorities - their points about coolant clips were apt and correct, however i don't think #13 or #14 will happen, thankfully.
#11
Posté 17 février 2011 - 09:14
Sleepicub09
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maybe because bioware spelled it kaiden in the media, but kaidan in game.Systemlord Baal wrote...
Why is it so hard to spell his name right? o_0Kaiden
All in all, though, I see lots of good points there. Good find.
Modifié par Sleepicub09, 17 février 2011 - 09:34 .
#12
Posté 17 février 2011 - 10:16
Captain_Obvious_au
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Disturbingly enough, I agree with Jebel Krong. I like the list, except for 13 and 14, just completely unnecessary.
#13
Posté 17 février 2011 - 10:26
Terror_K
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Jebel Krong wrote...
they don't miss the point, they just don't have your priorities - their points about coolant clips were apt and correct, however i don't think #13 or #14 will happen, thankfully.
You misunderstand me. I actually mostly agree with them with that point. The point they missed was that you can't just have ammo and call it as such because of the lore (or if you did you'd not be running out for ages anyway) which leads me to believe they didn't pay attention to the lore and reasons behind there being no ammo.
#14
Posté 17 février 2011 - 10:41
silver-crescent
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It's a good list. I agree with pretty much every point.
#15
Posté 17 février 2011 - 10:44
AkodoRyu
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Sleepicub09 wrote...
maybe because bioware spelled it kaiden in the media, but kaidan in game.Systemlord Baal wrote...
Why is it so hard to spell his name right? o_0Kaiden
All in all, though, I see lots of good points there. Good find.
Recently there was the same spelling error in the PS3 comic. I've heard this was patched. Thus "Kaidan" is official.
My Polish version of the game had "Kaidan" in it all the time and I was reading and hearing Kaidan through the whole game. Still, they are Polish players who misspell the name. Not sure if it because of the ME1 media stuff or just out of laziness.
Official ME2 page has "Kaidan" on characters list. I'm a person who remembers spelling visually, so I cannot speak for anyone else, but "not enough information" is the first reason that comes to my mind. Kaidan is not the most popular character, "so who cares how his name is spelled"...
EDIT: EOT. If anyone wanna talk about this, I suggest visiting his support thread.
Modifié par AkodoRyu, 17 février 2011 - 10:47 .
#16
Posté 17 février 2011 - 10:46
Vali
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I love it when people in gaming reviews release these lists of quality suggestions for sequels. It puts a fresh perspective on things and shows genuine care for the game, and I think it is a great way to influence the game design itself.
One setence summary for each of their points interpreted to the best of my ability and my own opinions. Wall of text incoming because that's how much I love Mass Effect!
1. After all that Shepard has done, interstellar authorities ought to pay more attention to what Shepard has to say.
I whole-heartedly agree with this. Shepard is a person who has proven time and time again that she is capable of distinguishing between what is truly important and what is not, and is willing to make sacrifices on behalf of all the citizens of the universe (or humanity) to do what is necessary. She should not be treated as a paranoid triviality. I remember in ME1 when the council was unreasonably stubborn when faced with Shepard's suggestions and it really leads to the question "Why the heck wouldn't they at least pretend to listen to me? I've only gone out of my way to prove it to them oh so many times!". I understand that a hero usually has to face some kind of resistance from their friends and allies to tell an engaging story which contains consequences, but if this is played too often, it just feels somehow that Shepard is like the boy who cried wolf.
2. The combat environment is a little repetitive.
I can see their point somewhat. I really enjoyed combat in ME2, so I don't have too much to contribute on this topic. One thing I can say though is that players should be able to use their imagination to influence some of the terrain. For instance, Shepard could try find a hidden passage to gain an advantage over her enemies, or blow something up to create vital cover that otherwise wouldn't exist.
3. More exploration, newer environments.
The cities in ME2 allowed some great freedom of exploration, and every one of them really had a unique vibe. Outside of those however, ME2 did feel a bit linear when it came to exploring the "battle areas". However, I know this is really an unsatiable request- exploration is a great chunk of the RPG experience but it can only go so far...
4. Greater selection of weapons.
YES. ME2 got steamlined too much in my opinion when it comes to weapons. A stable of RPGs has always been to acquire new toys through the open markets and that's something I feel ought to be brought back. It gives the player more choices, and a sense of progression- both of which are always invariably important in an RPG. Keep the upgrades and give a medal to whoever came up with that idea, but let us do shopping!!
5. More complex romances.
I have to admit the romance options in Mass Effect, and BioWare games in general, is not something I take to heart. I enjoy them, and I appreciate BioWare doing this on every single game they make, but it's just not me. Most people love them though, and I'm sure you guys get more than enough romance craze requests on the forums. Some people have more to say about this than I do, and if romances ever get taken out... boy, there are going to be riots that's for sure.
6. Coolant clips are not fun, and neither is trying to find them after every single battle. However, if you must have them, at least just call them 'ammo'.
I really enjoyed the weapons overheat concept, and I have to admit running out of amm- "coolant clips" after every single battle was not very fun. If coolant clips are once again a staple in ME3, please at least make the weapons have a bigger total ammo capacity. Sure, carrying "realistic amount of ammo from our modern perspective" is great for games like COD where people also... you know, realistically "die" from a single bullet, it is not quite as awesome when you're carrying a futuristic rail-rifle and realize that "hey, I carry thousands of micro-ammunition, but I only have enough coolant to take down one krogan, maybe two, before I have to scurry over to the enemy and steal theirs! ".
Why not take a middle stance and introduce both weapons with overheat, and weapons that use coolant clips? It'll make for some great variation and leads to more choices!
7. Team building in ME2 feels more like a heroic milk-run with a big climax rather than a heroic adventure leading up to a big climax.
This I feel is a game development choice rather than a flaw. Both options have their ups and downs, and ME2 was certainly a very enjoyable experience. It was unique, and the way it was carried out allowed for much more in-depth character development, but it did invariably sacrifice the momentum that was so prevalent in ME1. I have no doubt ME3 will be different, and I'm definitely not going to suggest how the entire game should be designed so... yeah.
8. Refine cover and movement controls; mistakes can be costly and be easily made.
I have absolutely zero problems with how cover and movement worked in ME2. I felt it was extremely polished. Yay for short opinion!
9. Cooperating Cerberus should've been an option- Shepard did not have happy past experiences with Cerberus so what if we don't want our Shepard to be so easily swayed by the Illusive Man? (whhaaat how can you not?? Oh btw, and at a total contradiction to my earlier statement about romance, Illusive Man... L.I?
)
I think this part is more opinion than anything else really. Shepard could be interpreted in so many different ways it's impossible to say "well she would do this but wouldn't do this". In fact, it is possible for Renegrade Shepard to actually have quite similar goals compared to Cerberus, with the human superiority and all. And besides, Illusive Man + Martin Sheen = Suave Persuasive Man. What? I find voice to be very important in actors!
10. Squadmates: Too many members can put an unwanted distance between the player and his team.
I have to agree with this somewhat, although it feels like having to choose between an arm and a leg. I certainly do feel at times I don't get to interact much with the party members outside of their respective quests, but at the same time, those quests were so great and offered so much in character development that I would hate to see them go. Glad I'm not the one making the calls...
11. More class-defining abilities, especially for the Engineer and Soldier.
I kinda see the point they are making here, but I overall I was extremely satisfied with how the classes turned out. New abilities are always nice to have of course, but even in the worst cases, it was rather the choice between Super Cool, or Really Cool as opposed to Awesome or "Meh" in my opinion.
12. Take the chance! Don't leave out the old characters because there is a chance that all that hard work will not be put to use.
I completely agree with this. First of all BioWare, I think I speak for everyone when I say "we would definitely play your games over and over again to see the other outcomes". As Lays potato chips would say, you just can't do one play through and be done with it! If Wrex or Ashley or Kaiden comes back, you can be sure that eventually, on at least on one playthrough, we will be using them. It does a lot to add to the game's continuity, and it would be a huge service for everyone who loved the original members. We would probably understand if you guys chose efficiency over other things, but sometimes you just have to throw that out the window and do whats right by your fans!
13. Elcor teammate.
Well this is rather self-explanatory. Who wouldn't want to see an elcor teammate? How can this be done? Well... I don't have a clue. However, if the team still has that same writer who came up with the Hanarr commando, anything is possible I guess!
14. Female Shepard on the cover. The sci-fi genre as a whole needs as many characters like Commander Shepard as possible. And Jennifer Hale is awesome.
I agree with this so much, and it is so painful to accept that it will never happen... *sigh*.
And Jennifer Hale is so totally awesome. When I searched her up on IMDB, my jaw literally dropped upon finding out that she has been a part of my childhood ever since I was a little girl.
15. Tali really needs to take her mask off!
Tali is such a fun and well developed character. I think it would be a shame if we go throug the entire series without seeing her face! Although the link was rather unsettling...
Edit: Huh, I just realized I spent over 2 hours writing this.
One setence summary for each of their points interpreted to the best of my ability and my own opinions. Wall of text incoming because that's how much I love Mass Effect!
1. After all that Shepard has done, interstellar authorities ought to pay more attention to what Shepard has to say.
I whole-heartedly agree with this. Shepard is a person who has proven time and time again that she is capable of distinguishing between what is truly important and what is not, and is willing to make sacrifices on behalf of all the citizens of the universe (or humanity) to do what is necessary. She should not be treated as a paranoid triviality. I remember in ME1 when the council was unreasonably stubborn when faced with Shepard's suggestions and it really leads to the question "Why the heck wouldn't they at least pretend to listen to me? I've only gone out of my way to prove it to them oh so many times!". I understand that a hero usually has to face some kind of resistance from their friends and allies to tell an engaging story which contains consequences, but if this is played too often, it just feels somehow that Shepard is like the boy who cried wolf.
2. The combat environment is a little repetitive.
I can see their point somewhat. I really enjoyed combat in ME2, so I don't have too much to contribute on this topic. One thing I can say though is that players should be able to use their imagination to influence some of the terrain. For instance, Shepard could try find a hidden passage to gain an advantage over her enemies, or blow something up to create vital cover that otherwise wouldn't exist.
3. More exploration, newer environments.
The cities in ME2 allowed some great freedom of exploration, and every one of them really had a unique vibe. Outside of those however, ME2 did feel a bit linear when it came to exploring the "battle areas". However, I know this is really an unsatiable request- exploration is a great chunk of the RPG experience but it can only go so far...
4. Greater selection of weapons.
YES. ME2 got steamlined too much in my opinion when it comes to weapons. A stable of RPGs has always been to acquire new toys through the open markets and that's something I feel ought to be brought back. It gives the player more choices, and a sense of progression- both of which are always invariably important in an RPG. Keep the upgrades and give a medal to whoever came up with that idea, but let us do shopping!!
5. More complex romances.
I have to admit the romance options in Mass Effect, and BioWare games in general, is not something I take to heart. I enjoy them, and I appreciate BioWare doing this on every single game they make, but it's just not me. Most people love them though, and I'm sure you guys get more than enough romance craze requests on the forums. Some people have more to say about this than I do, and if romances ever get taken out... boy, there are going to be riots that's for sure.
6. Coolant clips are not fun, and neither is trying to find them after every single battle. However, if you must have them, at least just call them 'ammo'.
I really enjoyed the weapons overheat concept, and I have to admit running out of amm- "coolant clips" after every single battle was not very fun. If coolant clips are once again a staple in ME3, please at least make the weapons have a bigger total ammo capacity. Sure, carrying "realistic amount of ammo from our modern perspective" is great for games like COD where people also... you know, realistically "die" from a single bullet, it is not quite as awesome when you're carrying a futuristic rail-rifle and realize that "hey, I carry thousands of micro-ammunition, but I only have enough coolant to take down one krogan, maybe two, before I have to scurry over to the enemy and steal theirs! ".
Why not take a middle stance and introduce both weapons with overheat, and weapons that use coolant clips? It'll make for some great variation and leads to more choices!
7. Team building in ME2 feels more like a heroic milk-run with a big climax rather than a heroic adventure leading up to a big climax.
This I feel is a game development choice rather than a flaw. Both options have their ups and downs, and ME2 was certainly a very enjoyable experience. It was unique, and the way it was carried out allowed for much more in-depth character development, but it did invariably sacrifice the momentum that was so prevalent in ME1. I have no doubt ME3 will be different, and I'm definitely not going to suggest how the entire game should be designed so... yeah.
8. Refine cover and movement controls; mistakes can be costly and be easily made.
I have absolutely zero problems with how cover and movement worked in ME2. I felt it was extremely polished. Yay for short opinion!
9. Cooperating Cerberus should've been an option- Shepard did not have happy past experiences with Cerberus so what if we don't want our Shepard to be so easily swayed by the Illusive Man? (whhaaat how can you not?? Oh btw, and at a total contradiction to my earlier statement about romance, Illusive Man... L.I?
)I think this part is more opinion than anything else really. Shepard could be interpreted in so many different ways it's impossible to say "well she would do this but wouldn't do this". In fact, it is possible for Renegrade Shepard to actually have quite similar goals compared to Cerberus, with the human superiority and all. And besides, Illusive Man + Martin Sheen = Suave Persuasive Man. What? I find voice to be very important in actors!
10. Squadmates: Too many members can put an unwanted distance between the player and his team.
I have to agree with this somewhat, although it feels like having to choose between an arm and a leg. I certainly do feel at times I don't get to interact much with the party members outside of their respective quests, but at the same time, those quests were so great and offered so much in character development that I would hate to see them go. Glad I'm not the one making the calls...
11. More class-defining abilities, especially for the Engineer and Soldier.
I kinda see the point they are making here, but I overall I was extremely satisfied with how the classes turned out. New abilities are always nice to have of course, but even in the worst cases, it was rather the choice between Super Cool, or Really Cool as opposed to Awesome or "Meh" in my opinion.
12. Take the chance! Don't leave out the old characters because there is a chance that all that hard work will not be put to use.
I completely agree with this. First of all BioWare, I think I speak for everyone when I say "we would definitely play your games over and over again to see the other outcomes". As Lays potato chips would say, you just can't do one play through and be done with it! If Wrex or Ashley or Kaiden comes back, you can be sure that eventually, on at least on one playthrough, we will be using them. It does a lot to add to the game's continuity, and it would be a huge service for everyone who loved the original members. We would probably understand if you guys chose efficiency over other things, but sometimes you just have to throw that out the window and do whats right by your fans!
13. Elcor teammate.
Well this is rather self-explanatory. Who wouldn't want to see an elcor teammate? How can this be done? Well... I don't have a clue. However, if the team still has that same writer who came up with the Hanarr commando, anything is possible I guess!
14. Female Shepard on the cover. The sci-fi genre as a whole needs as many characters like Commander Shepard as possible. And Jennifer Hale is awesome.
I agree with this so much, and it is so painful to accept that it will never happen... *sigh*.
And Jennifer Hale is so totally awesome. When I searched her up on IMDB, my jaw literally dropped upon finding out that she has been a part of my childhood ever since I was a little girl.
15. Tali really needs to take her mask off!
Tali is such a fun and well developed character. I think it would be a shame if we go throug the entire series without seeing her face! Although the link was rather unsettling...
Edit: Huh, I just realized I spent over 2 hours writing this.
Modifié par Vali, 17 février 2011 - 10:53 .
#17
Posté 17 février 2011 - 10:58
Theobeau
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Great list and ideas.
Completely agree with Point 14.
Hale's Shepherd Rocks!
Completely agree with Point 14.
Hale's Shepherd Rocks!
#19
Posté 17 février 2011 - 11:07
Chaos Gate
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I agree with pretty much everything on the list, even the Elcor team mate!
It's so refreshing to see respected games journalists voice some criticism of Mass Effect 2 for a change.
It's so refreshing to see respected games journalists voice some criticism of Mass Effect 2 for a change.
Modifié par Chaos Gate, 17 février 2011 - 11:08 .
#20
Posté 17 février 2011 - 11:12
SantosCapela
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The points I don't agree:
6 - the colling system of me1 was game breaking to me due to a bug that made weapons unusable. as such I would prefer an hybrid system were by using the clips you can have an higher rate of fire. It makes sense to me;
9 - "no cerberus" is a little strong. yes I do think more choice in alignment there is important but cerberus must have an important role in me3 as should TIM. Of course the alliance and the council must be as important as cerberus. Also I would like to know more about the present cerberus and alliance relation. In fact I think we could have two much different play throughs considering the side you align with;
10 - maybe maybe not. I could think of uses to a bigger squad and not always in missions. Some in the squad could be used as ambassadors to other species for example or could take certain roles to prepare to what's coming. Like in me2 we can choose squad mates for roles in the suicide mission we could choose squad mates in me3 for roles outside of missions. me2 did that for Wrex and Liara with lotsb, the difference is that we didn't have a choice. With this I'm only saying that I see no sense in reducing the current squad. I also don't see a need to increase it;
13 - don't see them really in battle. Not against but don't see the point;
14 - don't care... I don't buy a game by the cover. Maybe the cover shouldn't have Sheppard on it;
15 - please no. I'm no tali fan but I like the mystery surrounding her face.
6 - the colling system of me1 was game breaking to me due to a bug that made weapons unusable. as such I would prefer an hybrid system were by using the clips you can have an higher rate of fire. It makes sense to me;
9 - "no cerberus" is a little strong. yes I do think more choice in alignment there is important but cerberus must have an important role in me3 as should TIM. Of course the alliance and the council must be as important as cerberus. Also I would like to know more about the present cerberus and alliance relation. In fact I think we could have two much different play throughs considering the side you align with;
10 - maybe maybe not. I could think of uses to a bigger squad and not always in missions. Some in the squad could be used as ambassadors to other species for example or could take certain roles to prepare to what's coming. Like in me2 we can choose squad mates for roles in the suicide mission we could choose squad mates in me3 for roles outside of missions. me2 did that for Wrex and Liara with lotsb, the difference is that we didn't have a choice. With this I'm only saying that I see no sense in reducing the current squad. I also don't see a need to increase it;
13 - don't see them really in battle. Not against but don't see the point;
14 - don't care... I don't buy a game by the cover. Maybe the cover shouldn't have Sheppard on it;
15 - please no. I'm no tali fan but I like the mystery surrounding her face.
#21
Posté 17 février 2011 - 11:14
nubbers666
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wow right on the money with most of it
#1 on the list had me laughing up a storm
thanx for that link i needed a good laugh:happy:
#1 on the list had me laughing up a storm
thanx for that link i needed a good laugh:happy:
#22
Posté 17 février 2011 - 11:20
Mister Mida
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Save the last three points, I actually agree with them.
#23
Posté 17 février 2011 - 11:21
Lumenadducere
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I actually agree with all the points. And as for FemShep on the cover, why not have them both? That way those who are easily confused will still see MaleShep and recognize it as Mass Effect, and those of us that want a little bit of progress can have it. It's not like it has to be an either/or scenario, here. Or you could have a cover similar to the Collector's Edition of ME2, which was just the battered N7 armor.
Note that when I refer to "easily confused" people I don't refer to those who prefer MaleShep for aesthetic reasons - while I vehemently disagree with that, I guess I can understand. I refer to those who have made it through the first two games without realizing that Shep can be a class other than a soldier, let alone physically customizable. And before you ask me how that's possible, I have no idea, but I've actually met a couple people who have managed it.
Note that when I refer to "easily confused" people I don't refer to those who prefer MaleShep for aesthetic reasons - while I vehemently disagree with that, I guess I can understand. I refer to those who have made it through the first two games without realizing that Shep can be a class other than a soldier, let alone physically customizable. And before you ask me how that's possible, I have no idea, but I've actually met a couple people who have managed it.
#24
Posté 17 février 2011 - 11:23
Jebel Krong
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Terror_K wrote...
Jebel Krong wrote...
they don't miss the point, they just don't have your priorities - their points about coolant clips were apt and correct, however i don't think #13 or #14 will happen, thankfully.
You misunderstand me. I actually mostly agree with them with that point. The point they missed was that you can't just have ammo and call it as such because of the lore (or if you did you'd not be running out for ages anyway) which leads me to believe they didn't pay attention to the lore and reasons behind there being no ammo.
ah, well tbh i don't think they considered it that deeply for the article - not enough sound-bites and too many long words for pc gamer.
