90 réponses à ce sujet

[Moiaussi]

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

The known galaxy is being attacked by a race of machines that have constantly wiped out everything for millions of years, it's quite hard to think of a way in which the galaxy can look the same.

And what exactly is "doing things right"?  The Paragon path?

Personally though, I just don't want a repeat of the Suicide Mission.  Having every squad mate survive because of 3 decisions.

The reapers have always had complete surprise and always cut off command structures first and decisively. This time the Citadel is hardened against them and they have lost the element of surprise.

It isn't the same fight as the prior races fought.

If you want to assess the costs, consider the costs the Protheans have paid just securing the Citadel and getting the warning out. It is already far from a bloodless war.

Oh and 'doing things right' does not neccessarily mean 'paragon' and paragon does involve sacrifices too. In ME2 we get details of how many Alliance ships were lost saving the Destiny Ascension. Paragon is often portrayed as inviting the enemy to tea and crumpets and hoping for the best. It isn't. It is about a rational approach to threat recognition and weighing potential outcomes, rather than the more pragmatic renegade approach of assuming everything is a threat and acting accordingly.

The ideal approach is likely a situational healthy balance between the two philosophies. Fanatics are usually problematic no matter what the cause, good or bad.

Sorry for the mini-rant. Just getting tired of the 'label and dismiss' debate strategies used too often on these boards.

[AdmiralCheez]

It's okay, Moiaussi. It was a good rant.

[Therefore_I_Am]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

This how I'd start ME3:

Shepard is summoned back to the Citadel by Anderson, but the meeting turns out to be a setup (Anderson was in the dark) and Shepard is arrested by Alliance/Council authorities as a member of a terrorist group, and accused of having gone rogue. While Shepard is imprisoned pending his Court Martial/Trial, the Reaper Fleet arrives in Council Space and attacks the Citadel. There is a massive space battle and during the confusion of the battle, Anderson and the Virmire Survivor break Shepard out of his cell. At the same moment some of the Reapers break through the Council Fleet formation and 'dock' with the Citadel, while legions of the Reapers minions disembark with one purpose: Kill or Capture Commander Shepard.  With Anderson and the Virmire Survivor as Shepard's temporary squad, Shep has to fight his way to the loading dock first through security mechs that flag Shep as an escaping prisoner, and then the Reaper's foot soldiers in order to get to the previously locked down Normandy SR2, which has now been seized and liberated by agents of the Shadow Broker. (Liara) Along the way Shep gets a few panoramic views of the massive battle going on beyond the Citadel, where the Council Fleet is beginning to be defeated in detail. Escaping the Citadel with the Normandy just as the surviving Council and Alliance ships sound the retreat and abandon the Citadel to it's fate, Shep & company jump to Hagalaz .
 
In the wake of the defeat, all 13 million inhabitants of the Citadel are killed or indoctrinated, including the Council, and through the Citadel the Reapers reconfigure the Relay system to only allow Reaper flagged ships to pass through any relay, effectively cutting off the Council species off from each other, so that the Reapers may divide and conquer. The bombardment of alien worlds and the 'reaping' of humanity begins in earnest as Shep must now find a way to bypass the shutdown of the Mass Effect relays, unify the now divided factions against the Reapers, and find a way to defeat the Reaper fleet.

I like this... only replace Anderson with Udina and you have a deal. Anderson is too awesome to turn you in.
Or you can have Udina open up the relay. : P

All in all, I want to see the reapers cause mass havoc on all fronts... nearly every planet under attack and being annihilated.

Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 17 février 2011 - 11:10 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

I think 3 will be about convincing people to fight with you as opposed to them taking on the reapers on their own. One of 3 out comes I feel will happen in 3. #1 They join you in the fight #2 they decide to fight the reapers on their own without you and your allies or #3 they join the reapers in fighting against you and all resisters.

[Kingthlayer]

Moiaussi wrote...

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

The known galaxy is being attacked by a race of machines that have constantly wiped out everything for millions of years, it's quite hard to think of a way in which the galaxy can look the same.

And what exactly is "doing things right"?  The Paragon path?

Personally though, I just don't want a repeat of the Suicide Mission.  Having every squad mate survive because of 3 decisions.

The reapers have always had complete surprise and always cut off command structures first and decisively. This time the Citadel is hardened against them and they have lost the element of surprise.

It isn't the same fight as the prior races fought.

If you want to assess the costs, consider the costs the Protheans have paid just securing the Citadel and getting the warning out. It is already far from a bloodless war.

Oh and 'doing things right' does not neccessarily mean 'paragon' and paragon does involve sacrifices too. In ME2 we get details of how many Alliance ships were lost saving the Destiny Ascension. Paragon is often portrayed as inviting the enemy to tea and crumpets and hoping for the best. It isn't. It is about a rational approach to threat recognition and weighing potential outcomes, rather than the more pragmatic renegade approach of assuming everything is a threat and acting accordingly.

The ideal approach is likely a situational healthy balance between the two philosophies. Fanatics are usually problematic no matter what the cause, good or bad.

Sorry for the mini-rant. Just getting tired of the 'label and dismiss' debate strategies used too often on these boards.

You go right down the middle and you won't even be able to see those little blue and red lines.  There should be no right path in ME3, none of the decisions made in either game prior are going to make that big a difference in ME3 anyways.

And while the Reapers might have to take a different approach this time around they've still had 2+ years to figure out what to do, while the rest of the Galaxy have been pretending they don't exist.

[Capeo]

You know we'll be trying to convince civilizations to help us in ME3. You know it. Instead of doing sidequests for squad members loyalty you'll be doing it for specific civilizations because somehow BW is going to make it so that all these (implausibly) ignorant factions are going to ignore a Reaper fleet inside galactic space. The Reapers will probably beeline right to earth because now, for whatever reason, humans are their main focus and while Earth is getting attacked you're going to be running around trying to convince people these are Reapers and not rogue geth or some other equally implausible thing. I wish it weren't so but I'm pretty confident you will be jumping through hoops for people once more.

[Femlob]

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

There should be no right path in ME3, none of the decisions made in either game prior are going to make that big a difference in ME3 anyways.

Assuming ME3's scale will be gallactic as opposed to the more localized stuff we've been doing the past two games (although Saren and co. and the Collectors were dangerous, the odds were manageable for a crack team of specialists; forty billion Reapers threatening to rape the Milky Way is a league of its own), one could argue that what happened in ME2 will only affect who you have to work with, not what you have to do.

Of course, no official confirmation of anything beyond Big Ben shooting heroin and taking potshots at Reapers means I could easily be talking out of my ass.

[Bailyn242]

Capeo wrote...

You know we'll be trying to convince civilizations to help us in ME3. You know it. Instead of doing sidequests for squad members loyalty you'll be doing it for specific civilizations because somehow BW is going to make it so that all these (implausibly) ignorant factions are going to ignore a Reaper fleet inside galactic space. The Reapers will probably beeline right to earth because now, for whatever reason, humans are their main focus and while Earth is getting attacked you're going to be running around trying to convince people these are Reapers and not rogue geth or some other equally implausible thing. I wish it weren't so but I'm pretty confident you will be jumping through hoops for people once more.

Funny thing though, during the Tali loyalty mission there is a conversation with Han'Gerrel where Tali talks about needing the fleet to fight the Reapers and the Admiral responds "Then we need someplace to shelter our noncombatants" or something along those lines. The Quarians and Geth don't question the existence of the Reapers, nor do the Rachni or Krogan (with Wrex). Shaman Urdnot even says that he suspects your killing of the Giant sentient machine is mere foreshadowing when you tell him about killing Sovereign.

[Femlob]

Bailyn242 wrote...

Funny thing though, during the Tali loyalty mission there is a conversation with Han'Gerrel where Tali talks about needing the fleet to fight the Reapers and the Admiral responds "Then we need someplace to shelter our noncombatants" or something along those lines. The Quarians and Geth don't question the existence of the Reapers, nor do the Rachni or Krogan (with Wrex). Shaman Urdnot even says that he suspects your killing of the Giant sentient machine is mere foreshadowing when you tell him about killing Sovereign.

Interesting. With Wrex being the clan badass, it doesn't require a leap of faith to imagine that if Wrex says Reapers will come to reap, the rest of the Krogan'll just say "if you say so, cap'n". For the Quarians, though, it could be an indication of Tali's true influence on Quarian affairs - more so than we've seen so far.

As for the Geth, well, we all know why they know.

[Femlob]

Double post since the previous one didn't show up. Database should stop smoking pot.

[knightnblu]

I'm pretty sure that the death and destruction raining down on their heads will convince them that something is wrong.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

This how I'd start ME3:
*snip*

I love your brain, dude!

On-topic: I have to say I really think ME3 will be along the lines of DA:O in this regard, where you travel to the potential ally's homeworld, introduce yourself to them, help them with an internal problem, and finally get them to join your "army". Of course, I'd like to be wrong and see a more original approach, but I'm not holding my breath and, in any case, I'm really fine with this.

[Undertone]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

This how I'd start ME3:
*snip*

I love your brain, dude!

On-topic: I have to say I really think ME3 will be along the lines of DA:O in this regard, where you travel to the potential ally's homeworld, introduce yourself to them, help them with an internal problem, and finally get them to join your "army". Of course, I'd like to be wrong and see a more original approach, but I'm not holding my breath and, in any case, I'm really fine with this.

If they make it in some new way that is better - by all means. The system DA:O sets up is also nice in my opinion.

[Arijharn]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

I think 3 will be about convincing people to fight with you as opposed to them taking on the reapers on their own. One of 3 out comes I feel will happen in 3. #1 They join you in the fight #2 they decide to fight the reapers on their own without you and your allies or #3 they join the reapers in fighting against you and all resisters.

I like this idea quite a bit. I mean, even the Turian Councillor will throw his fist if someone punches him in the face.

[lawp79]

I always take internet speculation and "facts" with a bucket of salt, but if this is to be believed we will be doing just that. This has been posted here a few times, not sure if its already been in this thread though.



http://www.holyfragg..._3/news/?a=1825

[Destroy Raiden_]

Capeo wrote...

You know we'll be trying to convince civilizations to help us in ME3. You know it. Instead of doing sidequests for squad members loyalty you'll be doing it for specific civilizations because somehow BW is going to make it so that all these (implausibly) ignorant factions are going to ignore a Reaper fleet inside galactic space. The Reapers will probably beeline right to earth because now, for whatever reason, humans are their main focus and while Earth is getting attacked you're going to be running around trying to convince people these are Reapers and not rogue geth or some other equally implausible thing.

yeah I kind of imagined it going like that. I just got done w/ dragon age now so I can finally talk about how all that went. I didn't mind doing some quest and others seemed optional enough and others were more implied you have to do this inorder to get your help like the urn mission. Overall I didn't mind going from area to area and helping the aid missions were unique enough in the forest I'm fighting warewolves that then turns into blackmagic and a forest spirit creature but it worked out plausibly well sure if I wanted to I could definitely poke some serious holes in the plot and how everyone magically turns back to their natural state with perfect clothing on but for now I won't.

I would hope that in ME3 its not so easy as  it was in DA do a mission and we're good it should be based off of Sheps past alignments, and the current deeds he's doing in ME3. Along with I feel table negotiations using your brain instead of your brawns. In my idea of how it should go you get to a world you need to fight w/ you they say go here and do this and then we'll see. So you do that thing then you get an audience w/ the heads of that world and negoiate and depending on how that goes they edge closer to joining you now if sheps past and his current track record match up with beliefs, governmental trends, or aspiration the planet leaders hold then they're on board if not shep gets one last mission and depending on the pass/fail he/she has on this they're either on board or not.

And for anyone who could easily get frustrated or board with this set up you can leave and come back for instance you do their deed then they say ok we'll meet with you now so come to this building when you're ready a board person or one who just needs a break can leave go to other homeworlds, sidequest, just hangout then return to that world go to that building talk then if another mission is given they've got their ship they can either go to it or go to other homeworlds,sidequest, ect then do that last mission for that particular world.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 18 février 2011 - 04:25 .

[Northern Sun]

I hope it's not for their sakes, because if the turian councilor tries to dismiss the reapers while they're attacking Earth my paragon Shep will leave Palaven to burn.

[Gabey5]

it is a given that you will have to rally the forces

[Jackal904]

I also fear that ME3 may end up being DA:O in space, story-wise. While I'm sure it would still be an amazing game. I would always be a little dissapointed that they couldn't come up with something more original and unexpected.

[Ahriman]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

*snip*

Impressive, I would like if game starts like that. But I can see it a bit different in one part.

Shepard is summoned back to the Citadel by Anderson, but the meeting
turns out to be a setup (Anderson was in the dark) and Shepard is
arrested by Alliance/Council authorities as a member of a terrorist
group, and accused of having gone rogue. Interrogations and medical experiments change each over day by day, merging into one gray unconsciousness. Then nightmare, bright and colourful: Citadel is under Reaper attack, Citadel fleet smashed without any chance and Citadel caked with Reapers. Shepard awakes in dark cell, no light, no guards, only strange mechanical noise and almost silent whisper. Finally Shepard finds the reasons of this noise, someone cutting wall. Who do you think it is? Right, another keeper with it's mad restructuring, but it is a chance and Shepard uses it. Citadel is in ruins and swarmed by husks and another strange creatures, but Shepard has to find out. Somebody still tries to resist, you even meet c-ses officer, survived by miracle after week of this hell on Citadel [I'm serious, a week]. Shepard's target is commuincation channel of Shadow Broker in Presidium...

Then goes original Aedan's variant.

Prologue was supposed to be dark and creepy, but I cannot describe it well enough.

[Sajuro]

@ Wizz

Would it be Keeper 20, slayer of krogan?

[Saaziel]

I don't see why the need to rally forces should be overlooked.



In everyday life its hard enough for people to get involved until its too late. And even then some won't budge. Frankly I'd like some epic diplomatic effort mission finishing by the recruit saying something like: "Thanks for all the fish Shepp, but there's this rerun of "Survivor Tuchanka" i just can't miss. Good luck with them errr... Feeders or whatever..."



(P.S. i haven't watch Tele in ages , is Survivor still a show? )

[Marta Rio]

I have somewhat mixed feelings about the "rallying the troops" plotline.  On one hand, we have a near perfect setup for it - we have Tali and Legion for the Quarian/Geth conflict, we have Mordin and Wrex (or possibly Grunt) for the Krogan genophage issue, and we have Anderson and TIM (and Miranda, Jacob, and Kaidan or Ashley) for the Alliance/Cerberus schism.  We also have the rachni waiting in the wings.  And the help of the Shadowbroker.  (Although I'm not sure how Bioware would handle the "Tali, Legion, Mordin, and Wrex are dead" scenario...).  If we do rally the troops it would mean that some fan favorite characters would have meaningful roles to play, and also that we would get to resolve some very interesting and complex issues in the ME universe.

However, I'm kind of against a rallying troops story because, well, (1) it has been done, (2) I'm really looking forward to hearing some more Prothean and/or Reaper lore, and (3) Shepard is not a diplomat.  The idea that Shep (a career soldier) is going to go running around the galaxy mediating conflicts that no one else has been able to resolve in hundreds of years of trying seems a little silly to me.  Shep's good at leading small teams in venues that require combat.  I could see a "tracking down the secret to defeating the Reapers" plot exploiting this particular talent. 

If Bioware's good (which I know they are) they could integrate some troop rallying with some secret tracking.  I kind of hope that's the direction they take, although I am wary of them trying to cram too much into ME3.

[Yeti13]

nobody is going to want to die for humanity they will try to stop the Reapers when they threatn thier planets

[Dean_the_Young]

Yeti13 wrote...

nobody is going to want to die for humanity they will try to stop the Reapers when they threatn thier planets

I actually had a conversation on this subject just the other day via PM, in which my views were asked as to why in the world any alien species would die to try and save the humans.

Copy and pasted below. (Forgive the formatting.)



The biggest reason to fight over Earth, though I doubt the game will
cite this, is that the Reapers have broadcast their intent to capture
it. Which means they have to break its defenses and subjugate, which
takes time. And that time is important because it's a time in which the
Reapers are in one place, where we can find them, and they are less
likely to fly away.



The scariest thing about the Reaper armada, and something I've seen
no one else recognize or address, is that the Reapers don't have
to stay in a fight they might lose. For all the hypotheticals about how
important the Destiny Ascension might be in a fight, or how we can just
board the Reapers, and a hundred other strategems ranging from sensible
to stupid... the Reapers remain star ships. They have FTL, and that
means that if a battle starts being disadvantageous to them, they can
leave. And for any other location, from Noveria to the Asari homeworld,
any place they don't have to occupy and enslave, they can simply
genocide from orbit, much faster. The Reapers don't need to occupy the
other Council homeworlds. They probably won't: the thralls and slaves
they need, they can get from colonies much more easily. We can't expect
to maintain a stand-up fight anywhere else, where the Reapers have
reason to stay and accept losses.



But Earth... 'humans are special', in that the Reapers want to make
us like them. They want to capture Earth, not raze it from orbit.
They're willing to fight over it. Earth is the only plausible anvil upon
which the Reapers may be broken.



And, we can hopefully helpfully remind everyone else, if Earth
falls, they stand to face even more Reapers. Shepard can attest to that.
So we do have an argument to take to the aliens for our relief:
Earth is where you can fight the Reapers on our own terms, not theirs.
And Earth stands to be the cradle of even more Reapers, if you think to
let us fall.







Unfortunately, however, we don't have much hope for unconditional
support. Especially not given the history of the Council, though I have
little doubt that Paragons will get any unconditional faith rewarded
by the Council.