21 réponses à ce sujet

[Killmonger]

gratefully i was dirtected here to repost my question from the general discussion forum

Killmonger wrote...
Hey,
As a long time player/builder of Nwn1, I've grown more interested in making new phenotypes. I am somewhat skilled in max and I've created my own content. However, I want to know more about how to use the controllers in max7 to produce keyframes onto the Nwn mesh (yes using biped not cat). Sort of like the excellent work by NinjaWeasel and others.
I understand how to fully rig and apply mocap files thru biped, but the automation of keyframe placement and the correct alignment of assemblies and list controllers still eludes me. Online tutorials that I've found are not explicit enough.
Could anyone please help me sort it out or at least point me in the correct direction?

Thankyou for your assistance in advance

[Bannor Bloodfist]

CCG On Animation



That gives you the 10 base animations that a general mdl can use. It can be a bit difficult to read as the coding for underlining, bolding, etc, got damaged/lost at some point in time.



Beyond that, it might be best to actually follow the directions on that page, and export a mdl to see how it is accomplished in NWN. the a_ba base mdl is inherited downwards into most other mdls in game. Any mdl you create, would be overwriting the inherited versions, for your specific mdl.



However, it does NOT explain how to use MOCAP at all. NWMax will allow you to move frame by frame through each animation sequence, shorten or lengthen them as necessary and "blend" them as well. All of that IS explained in the link above.

[gutwrench66kg]

side note: we now get 20 custom animations as of 1.69! (and mount/dismount got moved to their own unique ones)

[Killmonger]

Thankyou Sir Bloodfist



The link, (NWMax) tho a bit busted up, does relate to me the inclusions of custom animations (both the start/finish and looping) and the roots of inheritance that the engine follows (Re the CustomContentGuide v3) These are processes that I do understand and can create (in game) upon models, either thru text editing or file exports (All praise to the model suite creators and Velmar). However, the constraints of max require some special "wiring" in order to translate biped info into animations upon the Nwn1 mesh. Once the biped is removed from the file, it takes all the keyframe info with it unless the controller parameters are correctly set. It is this "wiring profile" that I seek. Exporting new mdl animations is quite a straightforward process, but transferring detailled mocap info, and retaining it upon the mdl format seems a bit more complex (due to my ignorance and/or oversight)



Short of an extremely tedious processing task, I remain confident that the methodology for what I seek is relatively simple, but it requires a deep understanding of the principles of max (or blender or whatever). I would like to use some mocap to "humanize" and improve upon the animations that I already have.



Thanks tho, for your input along my quest

[Bannor Bloodfist]

Using NWMax, you can easily edit the start/end frames, and actually add/delete frames etc. The wiring dummy is displayed in max for you, according to the bone structure of the creature. The data IS there, but you have to dig around a bit and get used to the NWMax rollout menus for where to find things etc.



MOCap appears to do a lot of the grunt work for you, and there MAY be a script somewhere that will directly import/export what you need from Mocap into NWmax / NWN format. I have NOT seen it, so I can't link you to it, but I have seen references to MOCap on the old bioware nwn custom content forums.



Old Bioware Custom Content Forum You will have to dig/search around in there for the actual help though.

[OldTimeRadio]

This has been a daunting task for me but I'll try to share what I know and maybe that will help you. 

So, nomatter what road you go down (either using fancy controllers and hand-animating or using a biped rig loaded with a BVH) it all gets baked down to linear keys at the end because it appears that's all that NWN can understand.  There are lots of different approaches to exactly how that conversion is performed.  The "Bake Anims" in NWMax is just one way to do it.  I've also exported to FBX to bake the controllers and used a couple of homebrew MaxScripts to bake out the Character Studio rigs as well.  Depending on what the controllers are, you're going to have to look for a baking process which works best with them.  You might also puzzle over some elements of this very old post (pre NWMax, IIRC) which maybe hints that there are (non-Biped) controllers which can be baked down to rotation keys only (but by what method they meant remains a mystery), which is what I'd be shooting for based on what I know so far.  They might have been talking about a baking process performed by the official BioWare export scripts/plugin or something else (maybe even a function inside Max).  If for some reason you find yourself needing KeyManager and AttributeKeyer (which are mentioned in that thread) I think I have copies of them floating around somewhere.

Animators like NinjaWeaselMan and every other animator I've either been able to contact or learn about have all done their animations by hand even when it looked good enough to be mocap.  He talks about his process for creating the animations starting about 38 minutes into the podcast and it goes on for about 5 minutes.  I bring this up because in my hunt to tame BVH files one of my first tasks was to find out if anyone else had done it before.  It doesn't look like it.

Ok, so that's hand animating and controllers and baking things down.  You can probably get pretty far if you're good with setting up your rig and the animations you're looking to get in-game are something you can make yourself.  I was pleasently surprised what a good HI-IK rig can do after watching a video which showed how to rig with it but I'm usually too busy to get lost in hand animation.

Now for the fun part! Biped!

Using Biped to get something out to NWN is a nightmare and you probably already know that by now, LOL.  In trying to bend this damned thing to my will I had devised three milestones in using a Biped rig with a single BVH loaded on it:

1. Export a biped rig converted to editable mesh and bake the Biped keys into linear position and rotation
2. Same as above but with a series of animations (producing the smaller animation list subset of a "creature", basically)
3. All of the above, plus a zillion more animations converted into a phenotype OR developing a successful method of replacing individual player animations seamlessly with ones from BVH files.

I was only able to get the first part achieved by using "Biped Dumper" (look here for it).  That's a slightly newer version than I was using so it may work even better.  There's a chance that's not the right script but it jives with what I've got in my MaxScript directory.  If it fubars for you let me know and I'll do more digging.

So with that you make your Biped rig, load a BVH onto it, turn on in-place mode so the model doesn't go traipsing around (i.e. leave X/Y 0-ish of the model base), run biped dumper and then you should be able to figure out where to go from there.  It's not pretty but pretty doesn't matter: It's all about those animations.  If you know what you're doing, that'll basically get you an animated dancing (or whatever) skeleton placeable.

At least milestone 2 is technically possible using the above method if you want to throw the time at it to start stitching those animations together, assuming you have the BVH animations to support walking, running, fighting, etc and assuming that you can make decent "bookend" (neutral pose/bind pose/whatever you want to call it) frames for your animation so NWN (hopefully) plays everything back correctly.

Ok, let's stop right there for a sec.  Just like I said there were more than one way to bake animation keys, there's actually a better way to do all this, but I wasn't able to actually execute it.  Hypothetically, there's a much more elegant solution and one which also should allow you to make a phenotype much more easily, and here it is:

1. Create a custom .fig file for Character Studio whose pivot points match pmh0's pivot point locations and which also matches the pmh0 skeleton, including being named correctly (i.e. torso_g, rhand_g)
2. Create a custom .mnm file so importing the BVH animations maps the animations correctly onto your new skeleton.  This is not a perfect approximation but it's going to look something like this. You can just open it up in a text editor. Notice how you're going to have to make some tradeoffs and tradeoffs mean cleanup, probably in the Curve Editor.  Now, if you know how to interpolate the rotations (for instance) of several different objects into a new, single, object then you could take a regular Biped rig (or one with only minor changes) and use that conversion process to "blend down" the animations to the NWN skeleton.  I have no idea if such a thing is even possible.

If you can get that part achieved you'll basically have a NWN-friendly Biped rig which you can load BVH anims onto, dump them to something usable, and turn around and export them to NWN.

I'm no expert but when I see you talking about the assemblies and list controllers I'm thinking you may be getting hung up on a problem (in regards to Biped rigs with BVH anims on them, at least) which isn't something you have to deal with.  However, as with everything in Max, there are always multiple paths to get to the same finish line.  I came to my own conclusions about what was the absolute shortest path from beginning to goal and those conclusions might not have been authoritative.

I am busy but I might have some time to work with you to develop either a technique, a MaxScript interface, or both in order to make it possible to realize BVH->NWN and share that with the community.

Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 18 février 2011 - 12:10 .

[Killmonger]

From those very boards, long ago, I do still recall a thread or two that did relate to this topic but my answers seem to require human innovation rather than archival restoration. I believe it was pre-DLA, near the time that horse animations were being prototyped. I have been on this trail for quite some time. Thank you tho, I shall continue to dig thru the info.





The "script" is for me, perhaps, an excellent clue. I already know some basics of how to wire up in max7, but I'd need more info (detailled top down), because I'm not so confident in Maxscripting the matrices. The technology is already in max, but expeditiously arriving at a solution still confounds my progress:

A program to translate the Biped movement data into rotational controllers for assimilation into the Nwn mesh.

Clearly, there still is much to learn...



Also thanks for NWMax plus

and so much more.....

[Killmonger]

OMG !!



OldTimeRadio, a mighty helpful dissertation.... Thanxs !!



It'll take a moment to read it and get it, but I do get it. Wow



afk

[OldTimeRadio]

As far as I've ever been able to find, there is no way to bake down a Biped rig to pure rotation keys. You always get stuck with position keys too. Hope I'm wrong, though.  It's been a while since I mucked with this anyway.  Finding out whether it really is possible would, I think, require understanding a lot about how the Max animation system (and Character Studio) works at a really deep level and I've never been able to find anything from Discreet on the topic.

Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 18 février 2011 - 12:32 .

[OldTimeRadio]

usagreco66kg wrote...
side note: we now get 20 custom animations as of 1.69! (and mount/dismount got moved to their own unique ones)

The latest version of NWMax does not allow one to work with those new animations very well but I made a fix for that and Michael Darkangel was kind enough to include it in his newest release of NWMax Plus.  I have been using NWMax Plus after slowly weaning myself off the original BioWare export scripts over the last few months and I have no complaints.

I used NWMax Plus exclusively (in 3ds Max 2011, no less) to create my Jarilith model and it was a pleasure to use.  The only complaints people migth receive from Max is in regards to heapsize when starting the script and that's a trivial matter to either change or comment out.  And it may also have solely been based on some settings on my end, anyway.

Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 18 février 2011 - 12:04 .

[Killmonger]

Fantastic stuff OldTimeRadio !!

Had to go eat nutrition....

I've gone thru the links, listened to the podcast (around minute 38, he spoke of his methods)

Now I will immediately learn about Joco and apply NWMaxPlus. Although I'm restricted to max7, I trust the plugin will function. In the past, I tended not to use it, preferring the works of Velmar and the mdl suite but "baking" the controllers down to an approximation is all that is initially required (detailling can be done later). I will proceed with all the variations that you had mentioned with great care, and test their productivity against what I can gleen from NWMaxPlus.

I've put quite a lot of research into this too, I probably could have animated my intentions by hand by now, but the siren of some form of limited mocap keeps drawing me in. Despite the manyears to be invested, I believe it would speed up the innovative animation process for a wonderful game like Nwn

A very big Thankyou for helping me consolidate my thoughts. I could not have expressed what you did, so eloquently and concisely so quickly. I am confident that I will be on the right "track" very soon. Furthermore, I would be interested to know more about the Keymanager and AttributeKeyer, but as yet I don't know if they are required.



And yes, I liked and dloaded your Jarilith long before this posting



I have downloaded the various things that you have indicated above and I will be "at IT" probabably for the rest of my tonights (ahahaha). The "baking process" is clearly the crucial step to producing the linear keyframes. All I have to do now is figure out the correct recipe (LOL, as I sip my Coke)



As an aside, it was Nwn1 that inspired me to really learn max in the first place, rekindling my interests in animation and digital production. Thank you for sharing your experience with me. I am giddy with anticipation as I continue my attempt to tame the wicked BVH file. Especially as it is new territory for the mighty Nwn to yet overcome. It is gratifying to know that I am not alone.



I can see far because I have stood upon the shoulder of giants....



< posts pending>

[OldTimeRadio]

Glad that helped.  If you don't have NWMax installed, here is a tutorial video I made explaining exactly what you need to do to get all your tools and scripts installed and here is a tutorial video I made which covers playing around with non-linear controllers and collapsing them down to linear using the NWMax "Bake Anims" button. The first video might cover things you've probably already done so it may only be of limited use but that second video will walk you through the workflow of carrying out these kinds of operations in Max,  including setting your environment in Max/GMax and setting your default animations keys to linear (that stuff only needs to be done once), along with other things it's easy to get rusty on like setting up the base properly for a quick-n-dirty experiment like you'd be doing with a biped export.

Drop a line or post here with progress/problems. It would be pretty sweet to start getting more animations in this old game.

Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 18 février 2011 - 05:41 .

[Killmonger]

Yes it will be



I have, as of this post, tried many iterations of your suggestions, upto and including the mnm file edit. Each with limited success. Fear not, I will continue to refine my ideas in the tomorrows.



Of note

The BipedDumper v03 worked well and is the most promising avenue except the mdl explodes when imported (even after restructuring the hierarchy) But the work is early yet

The NWMaxPlus heap size crashes the script program in max7> can I just reduce that parameter?

Does Joco's Toolsv123 contain the plus upgrade? It does work in max7

Nwn, tho primitive, is still the best. Besides, who doesn't enjoy a good cartoon on occasion....



afk

<posts pending>

[OldTimeRadio]

Killmonger wrote...
The BipedDumper v03 worked well and is the most promising avenue except the mdl explodes when imported (even after restructuring the hierarchy) But the work is early yet

Select all the parts of the model and select the Reset Xform button in either NWMax or NWMax Plus.  If you can see it animating fine in Max then it just needs a Reset XForms.  But use the one I direct you to, not the one in Max.

The NWMaxPlus heap size crashes the script program in max7> can I just reduce that parameter?

Yes, or comment out the code entirely in the script or adjust the heapsize in Max. Customize->Preferences->MaxScript Tab->Memory

I think NWMax Plus is set for either 50 or 500 megs scripts space, can't recall.

Does Joco's Toolsv123 contain the plus upgrade? It does work in max7

It's VelTools you're thinking of and Velmar was the creator, not Joco. Joco "just" made NWMax. VelTools does not contain NWMax Plus. NWMax Plus is an updated version of NWMax released only a few months ago or soemthing like that. VelTools is very old, but absolutely indespensible. If one sets VelTools to work with "NWMax", it will also work with NWMax Plus.

[Killmonger]

Indeed

Apologies to Velmar for my last send, it was late and I'd been at it for many hours
Now to try again...

Commenting out the "if Heap..." caused error condition and it still won't run
Ouch, Increased max Heapsize from 7.5Mb to 50Mb crashed max very badly (I must reinstall)
Back soon (I hope)

Modifié par Killmonger, 18 février 2011 - 03:52 .

[Killmonger]

Ok,

max is back (whew)

Upon careful recalibration of all things biped, I can perform all the functions to "benchmark 1" however the dumped biped's animation keys are not retained upon my few attempts of copying them over to the mesh (B2). I still am of the belief that this data must be processed thru maxscript and controllers. It will take me some study to comprehend the architecture required to make the conversions possible.

Someone out there has already got the knowledge and perhaps the program to accomplish this in an old version of max.

The application of mocap would allow for quick and detailled animation. However, as OldTimeRadio has pointed out, a well rigged 1k animation is a fairly smooth and productive workflow. Hmm....

Perhaps those freelance Kinect gurus have some insight? A layered, incrementing series of snapshots (see plugin) would produce the linear keys desired.

I shall continue with some applied research...

More input is welcome

[OldTimeRadio]

Killmonger wrote...
Upon careful recalibration of all things biped, I can perform all the functions to "benchmark 1" however the dumped biped's animation keys are not retained upon my few attempts of copying them over to the mesh (B2). I still am of the belief that this data must be processed thru maxscript and controllers. It will take me some study to comprehend the architecture required to make the conversions possible.

Whoops, my bad.  Or maybe not.  I couldn't pull up my notes (I had 500 gigs of data go up in smoke, might have been there) so I walked through it again.  Anyway, I think I missed a step and I apologize.  After the biped dump it looks like the keys aren't converted to linear.  So, refined steps go something like this:

* Create a biped and scale it up till it's 2-3 meters or big enough to see

* Load the BIP or BVH onto the biped.  BIP is preferred because that's the native biped animation format.  Character Studio has a built in conversion/mass conversion utility for converting BVH to BIP.  You should be able to scrub the animation timeline and see your biped move about with the new animation at this point.

* Turn on "In Place Mode" in the Biped rollout.  This keeps X/Y movement to a minimum.  To find this guy, with the root of the Biped selected, click on the Motion Tab, scroll down till you see Biped rollout (it'll be under the Biped Apps rollout), and click the + next to Modes and Display.  The icon looks like a target.  Just click on it to turn it on.  Now when you scrub the aniamtion timeline the biped should not move around so much.

*  Ok, now run the Biped Baker and when it's done, delete the original biped (which I think will be hidden).  The one you want to keep will have the suffix "snap" and the hierarchy should be maintained so no worries there.

* Now for this next step I used the "Bake Anims" function in NWMax Plus but you might be able to get away with just doing a "Reset Controllers" (also in NWMax under Anims rollout).  Anyway, Bake Anims definitely works.  After that's done, just like the Biped Dumper, there will be two copies of the biped and the original one will be hidden.  Delete that or leave it, as long as it's not connected to the animation base it won't export anyway.  You should be able to confirm that all the keys are linear by selecting any part of the geometry and going to the motion tab and visually inspecting that the keys for rotation, position and scale are all linear.

* Drop a NWMax/Plus "Reset XForms" on all geometry because some of them (fingers and toes, for whatever reason) may still have world scale which does not equal 1.  If you've got VelTools installed, and EVERYONE should have VelTools installed, you can (with all that geometry still selected) apply the Aurora Trimesh modifier en masse to all of it which is going to help out with potential problems caused by the crappy shadow system NWN uses.  It's in VelTools under "NWN Tools" rollout, called "Object Parameters".  Just make sure Render is the only thing selected and click "Add Properties".  Now all your geometry has a basic trimesh modifer and the engine doesn't have to make any guesses.

* Create an Aurora base and put a "default" animation segment on it and be sure to give it the appropriate length for your full animation and make sure that that edit is applied to the animation segment.  In my case the animation segment starts at 0 and goes to frame 574.  Link the base of the Biped to the Aurora Base and then export anims.  You should get errors on export but only because there are spaces in each of the geometry's names.  Just click yes to each little message if you want to rename them and then check over the sanity check.  Also turn off the Weld To Nearest CM check.  You can also export it again and with those two things dealt with you shouldn't get any sanity check issues.

I...heh heh....I think that's "it".  As you know these things aren't really that difficult if you've done it a few times but the descriptions can make it seem more imposing than it is.



My machine isn't that great at recording video but you get the idea. You can download the .mdl here. Just drop it in your override folder, go into the toolset and search for the "armoire" placeable, place it and you should see it dancing.  If not just hit F9 to run the module and you will.  Hands and head are a bit tweaked but that only has to do with the specific mocap data/import method I used.

And yes, if other people have been working on this kind of thing I'd love to hear any input they have, or suggestions.

Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 21 février 2011 - 01:34 .

[Killmonger]

After eating my keyboard a few times.....
OMG....
OldTimeRadio, I am agog at the ease with which you have demonstrated your prowess.
Your insight is gratefully appreciated....

I got it.
(But I'm not as savvy as you to demonstrate it online)
My skeletal "biped snap", also dances in celebration too.

I had to study the procedure and model file very closely and insure that I was correctly operating the NWMax/Plus gui (I recommend that all those interested download it now !!)
Furthermore, as instructed, one must use the control panels NWmax Aura export function (not Mdl suite). Old Time Radio, your updated info was critical to comprehending the process. The + control on the motion roll out was a special kind of surprise !! Thankyou very much.....

The procedural recipe takes a bit of caution (but the process can be ironed out thru careful repetition)
I expect to get better, and faster at it.

Kudos to the NWMax/Plus plugin. I had not upgraded to this new version. Although I will probably never use the Nwn2 functions, it has expanded the toolbox for Nwn1. Excellent ! If one's max is correctly setup it runs just fine, so far. (Yes I crashed the program(s) a few times, pesky current startup, dlms,dlu,dle, ms et al LOL)
It is important to be current and correct with the maxscript files. I had to re-jig and restart max quite a few times. If one is low on RAM the edit of the parameters in the nwmax.ms works just fine too (I reduced the Heapsize by 100 (I also compared it with the NWmax v08 .ms file)) but, for those interested, take care with the current auto startup scripts.

Now the hard part...

The replacement of the biped_snap with useful in game meshes
The animations so far have resisted mapping or transfer to a body rig (torso_g, etc) The inclusion of .nmn and Fig files in the workflow, has not yet been explored by me.
My biped mesh is either not recognized (by 3rd party plugins) or the "merge" collapses the mesh into the node. However, the head texture, tho distorted, will appear on the biped head. The internal structure of the objects in max, I believe, is the culprit.

My interests in Nwn mocap will continue renewed ....
Imagine:     Angry mob/crowd placeables, or a Scavenger placeable (for a couple of ideas)

This forum was the crucible in which I could discern some answers....
Thanxs
i'll be back

Modifié par Killmonger, 22 février 2011 - 01:54 .

[OldTimeRadio]

Killmonger wrote...
Now the hard part...

The replacement of the biped_snap with useful in game meshes.  The animations so far have resisted mapping or transfer to a body rig (torso_g, etc)

Here are 3 approaches which you might consider.  These are basically notes I'm going to be trying to make headway on, as well.

One thing you can try is using the Anim Mapper in NWMax/Plus. It allows you to import animations from geometry in saved .MDL files meshes in Max.  I don't have time to do a mini tutorial on it but you can get the hang of using its features by grabbing using NWN Explorer Reborn to export c_yinnkeep.mdl and (for instance) a_ba_non_combat.mdl from the game resources, import c_yinnkeep.mdl into NWMax/Plus and practice using the Anim Mapper to load one or more animations from a_ba.non_combat.mdl onto the c_yinnkeep.mdl "target".  In regards to your goal, a_ba_non_combat.mdl would be a proxy for an exported biped model (like my dancing skeleton) and c_yinnkeep.mdl makes for a good all-around male human base.

The other way you could approach this is to change the Biped into Figure Mode and either modify the geometry on the biped to be equivalent to an NWN model or attach an NWN model's pieces to the bones directly.  Remember, bones don't have to manipulate a skin, they can also act as support struts for other rigid geometry.

Ok, so buffer the thought about attaching rigid NWN geometry (i.e. player/creature parts) to a Biped while I go on a tangent about Biped.  Biped is really inflexible.  You can't delete a Biped bone on a native Biped rig without the whole rig disappearing.  You can't even rotate a Biped rig without using a specific button the Biped rollout, IIRC.  Nor collapse the transforms via the Curve editor or the Motion tab->Trajectories->Collapse Transform->Collapse, or reassign a controller manually on Motion tab->Parameters->Assign Controllers. The "answer" to this inflexibility is Figure Mode.  Figure mode allows a great deal of flexibility, including substantially changing the length and orientation of bones.  There are a lot of good rigging videos on YouTube and I can't find the one I wanted you to look at but the model being rigged is kind of dressed like Grand Moff Tarkin from Star Wars.  That's what his uniform looks like.  The guy who does that video gives a good breakdown of using Figure mode but it's still not all encompassing.  Whatever you do, don't start out by going into figure mode and rigging anything up because as soon as you drop out of Figure mode it could all go "Poof!".  Character Studio Bipeds are really non-intuitive and picky.  One thing I've heard bandied about a lot from Max artists is you can't bend Biped to your art, you have to bend your art to Biped.

And while all the stuff we've talked about and experimented with so far results in geometry with a lot of keys, there's a trick I've just come across which I wanted to share with you, especially in case you could understand it better than I could.

Look down to Cactus Dan's response in this thread at CGSociety. What I take away from that is to take a Biped rig and make an IK/HI-IK bone rig which basically takes up the same space and is attached to the Biped rig. So when you load a BVH/BIP (in, say, autokey mode?) it manipulates the IK/HI-IK rig.  Which might be able to be collapsed to rotation keys. Which would mean, hopefully, just a few keys instead of dense 1 keyframe per frame results.

The inclusion of .nmn and Fig files in the workflow, has not yet been explored by me.

If you know enough about rigging an IK/HI-IK (and especially have experience collapsing them via Max rollouts, not NWMax/Plus, you might be able to skip the .MNM because your IK/HI-IK would be set up like a NWN skeleton but attached to a Biped skeleton- with you making the choices for tradeoffs.

My biped mesh is either not recognized (by 3rd party plugins) or the
"merge" collapses the mesh into the node. However, the head texture, tho
distorted, will appear on the biped head. The internal structure of the
objects in max, I believe, is the culprit.

Eh?  What are you trying to do, specifically?  What plugins are you using, etc?

Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 22 février 2011 - 11:55 .

[Killmonger]

Bit busy today, cant experiment just yet, maybe later

However,

I had begun using Anim map in NWmax/Plus. Also coming to terms with the other features

My old max seems to have had few applicable plugins written but so far:

Attribute keyer v2

Automatron v12 (for max8)

KeyTransfer v107

Manakin (version?)

Ani-pose (version?)

Those learnings aside, I have begun using the techniques available inside max. By constraining the dumped biped and making it drive a 1k rig seemed the logical approach (aka like a puppeteer)

The indicated thread seems to confirm the idea. PEN's notions of layers and point helpers to gather the animations and then bake them into a "proxy place holder for animations" (my words) which may then be transferred to the mesh could be a viable avenue (aargh, list controllers again)



My interests for doing this thing are mostly intellectual (to learn and to see if it can be done)

Beyond that I have some ideas to help make Nwn more interactive and immersive. (ala Dom Queron's interactives) That said, I realize that straight forward hand animation most often will achieve the goal without dealing with all the editting tweaks in mocap that will be necessary.

Evaluating the necessary trade offs is, for me, the slow part of this process

To use the Anim Mapper well, the key density must be reduced, preserving the animation. Initially I am going to degrade the BVH import. Yes, I agree that biped is very inflexible.

I have often used the c_yinnkeeper as a template for model transpositions. Although decoding the pivot points (from an npc to a pc) is a procedural annoyance that must be accounted for, my initial goal is just to make it work first. It will take some time to become proficent in NWmax/Plus but using the Nwn aba models provided will be the fastest approach. So far I am in agreement with everything that you have indicated

How much do i know about quickly manipulating FK and IK? Probabably alot, but for me to express it in words is nearly impossible. Properly transferring the data from one type of controller to another is a process that I am fast learning. (But I do comprehend how to manipulate the Track view and work with curve editting) Although I practice, animation is not my career, more of a hobby.

But due to this fine forum, I will try to gear up the specificity of my words so as to be both more concise and accurate (I think you type faster than me too).

But first I must consolidate my experimental procedure...



Thanks again for your insights (and useful links)

[Killmonger]

Upon some idle reflections, the Reaction controller and Block controllers seem promising

[OldTimeRadio]

Just thought I'd tack on a little addendum, changing my recommendation of "Biped Dumper" above to IK Tools v3.1. These scripts might only run under Max, unfortunately.

To convert an animated, skinned (skinned is optional) Biped rig just add all the biped bones and skin under the Bones area in the IK Replicate v3.0 rollout, select solving method Simple under "Solving Method" spot. Under Animation Range set the "to time" to whatever the animation length is, but leave the step time 3. I tried lowering it and received errors. Don't really know what the deal is there but it might require being at least 3 for the conversion process. Then just click the "Simple Replicate" button, wait for it to process and you'll have two copies. Delete your Biped rig, move the geometry along with skin to 0,0. Select geometry (bones) only, make sure they're converted to editable mesh, have render turned off and attach all geometry you can get away with to lower the bones to at least 17, you migth be able to get away with one or two more but it's right up to the limit. Then, with all bones selected use the NWMax "Reset Controllers" and I believe you're good to create an Aurora Base, attach, and go from there.

For Biped rigs, I recommending taking the upper torso and attaching the left and right clavicle. For the hands, collapse fingers and thumb into palm/wrist/whatever they call it. It's not that bad to get a full biped rig down to 17 bones this way. I use Max to make sure that no more than 3 bones are affecting each vert, I suppose you can go up to 4 but I never found I really needed that.

I may not have described everything perfectly but if you have a biped rig that you can load a BIP animation onto (Max allows you to convert from BVH to BIP, which is handy) you can play around with this yourself using the rigged/skinned/animated biped as your starting point.

Lot of words but it only took me 10 minutes, max, to actually get this working from having a rigged skinned biped to an in-game placeable. And, of course, don't forget if you use a skin mesh on your placeable to have all properties (Plot/Static/Usable) to be unchecked. Don't know how much the animated-NWN -placeable-as-character can be abused by loading more animations on the placeable than just "default" but even to crank one-trick pony placeables is still pretty nice for giving flavor to areas with NPC's.

Check it out in action here, NUDITY WARNING (she's just naked, nothing lewd):


So, my first impression is that this MaxScript will probably allow you to do a subset of all the above tasks more easily. Mainly, that means being able to animate Biped, convert to editable mesh geometry with linear controllers and then swap out the geometry for NWN parts which can then (theoretically) be made into a custom model which could be supermodeled into a_ba. You'd have to rename the Biped parts to NWN parts for that to work. In this way a total animation amateur (with a little help from YouTube tutorials) could crank out animations, like a few of the simpler examples from Vaéi's Additional Animations.

Without having to do it in FK or IK.

Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 21 avril 2011 - 01:10 .