178 réponses à ce sujet

[moilami]

Dayshadow wrote...

I agree with the OP. Not so much that it doesn't exist at all, but it is extremely cheap.  Especially against mages and rogues.

It's not so much that they can overwhelm it's the fact that it is too overpowered.  I recall a random fight in awakening against 10 shadow werwolves and all they did was overwhelm. Once one was done another one hooped on right afterwards. That's when it gets ridiculous. If not for the fact that I was playing a 2-hander and been able to attack them all at once when I finally got a chance to come up for air I would have lost.  That that was pure luck.

Another thing I hate if when they come out of stealth and instantly overwhelm.  Or they overwhlem, you manage to knock the damn thing off, but then its buddy insta warps over and takes the other's place continuing the damage uninterrupted. Cheap is cheap. I can't fight Flemeth without Shale because she literally does the bite n grab thing to any regular humanoid tank as if it was her auto-attack.

Alistari is down. Rez him. Flemeth stops attacking Shale. "overwhlems" Alistair. Flemeth continues fighting Shale.
Alistair is down, Rez him. Flemeth stops attacking Shale. "overwhlems" Alistair. Flemeth continues fighting Shale.
Alistair is down, Rez him. Flemeth stops attacking Shale. "overwhlems" Alistair. Flemeth continues fighting Shale.
Alistair is down, Rez him. Flemeth stops attacking Shale. "overwhlems" Alistair. Flemeth continues fighting Shale.
Alistair is down, Screw it, let him lie there.

Oi good memories. Stuff like that makes it very sweet to go to the camp and say "Hey, Morri, is this the book you wanted?"

[Yrkoon]

lordlokai wrote...
 I do not and can not STAND abilities in any game that instantly SLAUGHTER your characters with no defense at all! at least in D&D are saves or spells that can grant reistsances

Your memory is faulty.

There's no resistance or saving throw against Imprisonment or Timestop (for example)....  spells that  exist in D&D and some previous Bioware titles.... spells that your enemies often used against you to great death dealing effect.

[Wishpig]

The problem wasn't overwhelm (or similar moves)... it was the sluggish response of characters.

Overwhelm on paper isn't an instant win button, it can be countered by certain moves (such as shield bash) or certain spells (for example force field).

The problem was combat in general was slow, sluggish, and a bit clumsy. Being able to knock someone free with shieldbash is all good and fair... except when it takes forever to actually get close to the enemy and pull off the move.

With combat getting such an overhall, this hopefully won't be the case anymore.

[The Lesser Evil]

Reapers239 wrote...

The Lesser Evil wrote...

Can it be taken away from spiders at least? Spiders completely freak me out already, so much that when I fight them I usually try not to look at my screen. If one of them uses overwhelm on my character, I just completely lose it. I can't handle a spider jumping on my PC and gnawing wildly.
Nerf spiders!

lol omg, spiders are a sweet fight, i just wishes they were alot bigger. felt like i was fighting shelob......

You want the spiders to be BIGGER? You are now my mortal enemy.

[Cuthlan]

The thing I hated about Overwhelm was that it wasn't stopped by Indomitable, which was supposed to stop knockdowns.

When a big bad warrior who can't even be taken off his feet by a gigantic High Dragon gets pinned to the ground by a wolf that he can one-shot, something is wrong. (Yes, I know that dragons have their own version of a disabling attack, but I would think that a dragon using a knockdown attack would be a little more effective than an animal leaping at you).

Modifié par Cuthlan, 18 février 2011 - 02:08 .

[moilami]

Wishpig wrote...

The problem wasn't overwhelm (or similar moves)... it was the sluggish response of characters.

Overwhelm on paper isn't an instant win button, it can be countered by certain moves (such as shield bash) or certain spells (for example force field).

The problem was combat in general was slow, sluggish, and a bit clumsy. Being able to knock someone free with shieldbash is all good and fair... except when it takes forever to actually get close to the enemy and pull off the move.

With combat getting such an overhall, this hopefully won't be the case anymore.

Well but that's why you keep your toons in more tight group so they can support quicly each other. Basic tactics. Don't let the formo become lose.

[Cuthlan]

moilami wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

The problem wasn't overwhelm (or similar moves)... it was the sluggish response of characters.

Overwhelm on paper isn't an instant win button, it can be countered by certain moves (such as shield bash) or certain spells (for example force field).

The problem was combat in general was slow, sluggish, and a bit clumsy. Being able to knock someone free with shieldbash is all good and fair... except when it takes forever to actually get close to the enemy and pull off the move.

With combat getting such an overhall, this hopefully won't be the case anymore.

Well but that's why you keep your toons in more tight group so they can support quicly each other. Basic tactics. Don't let the formo become lose.

Keep them in a tight group so they can all be taken out by one AE spell/trap/ability?

If there's one thing I hate about gamers, it's the reaction of "LOL USE TICTACS NUB" whenever someone questions a game mechanic.

Don't be that guy.

[Wishpig]

moilami wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

The problem wasn't overwhelm (or similar moves)... it was the sluggish response of characters.

Overwhelm on paper isn't an instant win button, it can be countered by certain moves (such as shield bash) or certain spells (for example force field).

The problem was combat in general was slow, sluggish, and a bit clumsy. Being able to knock someone free with shieldbash is all good and fair... except when it takes forever to actually get close to the enemy and pull off the move.

With combat getting such an overhall, this hopefully won't be the case anymore.

Well but that's why you keep your toons in more tight group so they can support quicly each other. Basic tactics. Don't let the formo become lose.

Ya buddy... hate to say it but you're clearly grasping at straws to defend this.

Tight groups aren't always a good choice... and even WHEN my companions are close by, the combat is so iffy and clumsy that even BEING close sometimes isn't enough to pull off a succesfull shieldbash counter.

It's not like I'm saying anything the devs themselves haven't admitted...

Modifié par Wishpig, 18 février 2011 - 02:20 .

[moilami]

Cuthlan wrote...

moilami wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

The problem wasn't overwhelm (or similar moves)... it was the sluggish response of characters.

Overwhelm on paper isn't an instant win button, it can be countered by certain moves (such as shield bash) or certain spells (for example force field).

The problem was combat in general was slow, sluggish, and a bit clumsy. Being able to knock someone free with shieldbash is all good and fair... except when it takes forever to actually get close to the enemy and pull off the move.

With combat getting such an overhall, this hopefully won't be the case anymore.

Well but that's why you keep your toons in more tight group so they can support quicly each other. Basic tactics. Don't let the formo become lose.

Keep them in a tight group so they can all be taken out by one AE spell/trap/ability?

If there's one thing I hate about gamers, it's the reaction of "LOL USE TICTACS NUB" whenever someone questions a game mechanic.

Don't be that guy.

Is this thread only about complaining of features? And I who like those features have nothing to say?

Anyway usually when there are overwhelmers there are no casters. And if there are casters you take them out first.

Only fault I have seen in game mechanics is that toons at times stop attacking or when they try to attack moving target they begin to stand still and you have to use adsw to make them chase the target. Those are bugs. The rest are features.

[lazuli]

Wishpig wrote...
Tight groups aren't always a good choice... and even WHEN my companions are close by, the combat is so iffy and clumsy that even BEING close sometimes isn't enough to pull off a succesfull shieldbash counter.

It's not like I'm saying anything the devs themselves haven't admitted...

It's important to know the timing of your moves.  Origins makes this frustratingly difficult to do by hiding so much of its mechanics under the hood.  Trial and error is all we have to rely on in most cases.  Force Field has a nigh instantaneous activation.  It's been my number one defensive option for the backline lately.  It's a slightly more balanced use for it than combining it with Taunt and all manner of friendly fire AOE's.

[Xewaka]

Wishpig wrote...
The problem wasn't overwhelm (or similar moves)... it was the sluggish response of characters.
Overwhelm on paper isn't an instant win button, it can be countered by certain moves (such as shield bash) or certain spells (for example force field).
The problem was combat in general was slow, sluggish, and a bit clumsy. Being able to knock someone free with shieldbash is all good and fair... except when it takes forever to actually get close to the enemy and pull off the move.
With combat getting such an overhall, this hopefully won't be the case anymore.

Against regular sized enemies, Stone fist would do the trick. Against big enemies, your characters will be already around it so the traveling time is zero.
I had no problems countering overwhelm. Is it annoying? Probably, but that's the point of the ability. To make you micromanage your party well.

[moilami]

Wishpig wrote...

moilami wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

The problem wasn't overwhelm (or similar moves)... it was the sluggish response of characters.

Overwhelm on paper isn't an instant win button, it can be countered by certain moves (such as shield bash) or certain spells (for example force field).

The problem was combat in general was slow, sluggish, and a bit clumsy. Being able to knock someone free with shieldbash is all good and fair... except when it takes forever to actually get close to the enemy and pull off the move.

With combat getting such an overhall, this hopefully won't be the case anymore.

Well but that's why you keep your toons in more tight group so they can support quicly each other. Basic tactics. Don't let the formo become lose.

Ya buddy... hate to say it but you're clearly grasping at straws to defend this.

Tight groups aren't always a good choice... and even WHEN my companions are close by, the combat is so iffy and clumsy that even BEING close sometimes isn't enough to pull off a succesfull shieldbash counter.

It's not like I'm saying anything the devs themselves haven't admitted...

That's why you are flexible. You adapt proper tactics to the situation and win. Don't get locked in one set of tactics.

That is sad news by the way if devs think combat in DA sucked. At worst it means there will be just facerolling combat in DA2.

[sonsonthebia07]

I didn't find the overwhelm to be that bad actually. It gave enemies a dynamic that forced you to react quickly or else find yourself in a dangerous situation. The only part of the game that I found it to be unfair would be if you were playing on Nightmare and encountered the wolf ambush right out of Lothering - that one was a toughy at that stage.



The worst enemy ability in the game for me would be the groups of archers that used Scattershot...and the worst thing about it was that they could use it at point blank range as well. Good thing there were diminishing returns, because they could demolish your party pretty fast if you weren't ready for it. There's nothing quite like constant party-wide stuns that also do decent damage to everyone...

[sonsonthebia07]

Dayshadow wrote...

I agree with the OP. Not so much that it doesn't exist at all, but it is extremely cheap.  Especially against mages and rogues.

It's not so much that they can overwhelm it's the fact that it is too overpowered.  I recall a random fight in awakening against 10 shadow werwolves and all they did was overwhelm. Once one was done another one hooped on right afterwards. That's when it gets ridiculous. If not for the fact that I was playing a 2-hander and been able to attack them all at once when I finally got a chance to come up for air I would have lost.  That that was pure luck.

Another thing I hate if when they come out of stealth and instantly overwhelm.  Or they overwhlem, you manage to knock the damn thing off, but then its buddy insta warps over and takes the other's place continuing the damage uninterrupted. Cheap is cheap. I can't fight Flemeth without Shale because she literally does the bite n grab thing to any regular humanoid tank as if it was her auto-attack.

Alistari is down. Rez him. Flemeth stops attacking Shale. "overwhlems" Alistair. Flemeth continues fighting Shale.
Alistair is down, Rez him. Flemeth stops attacking Shale. "overwhlems" Alistair. Flemeth continues fighting Shale.
Alistair is down, Rez him. Flemeth stops attacking Shale. "overwhlems" Alistair. Flemeth continues fighting Shale.
Alistair is down, Rez him. Flemeth stops attacking Shale. "overwhlems" Alistair. Flemeth continues fighting Shale.
Alistair is down, Screw it, let him lie there.

All I ever had to do was keep up lifeward and regenerate on Alistair and constantly throw in spot heals/group heals...and yes the attack can be interrupted and no she doesn't really use it that often...and if you really had to you could range that fight fairly easily since she doesn't move...

Oh, and also she won't overwhelm people behind her so if you were dpsing with Alistair you probably should have moved him there despite the leg kicks to the face,,,

I'll admit those stealth wolves were a big bad surprise the first time through the elven ruins. They would resist my stuns very often for some reason or just ignore them, but it was messed up.

Modifié par sonsonthebia07, 18 février 2011 - 02:40 .

[Thomas Andresen]

Overwhelm? No, if there's an ability/spell I wish my enemy didn't have in DA:O, it's Curse of Mortality. Anything else is easily countered, so long as you're paying attention.

[moilami]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Overwhelm? No, if there's an ability/spell I wish my enemy didn't have in DA:O, it's Curse of Mortality. Anything else is easily countered, so long as you're paying attention.

That is very nasty spell. But it doesn't matter much since computer can't use it well and fails so big times in all co-ordination.

(Good counter to CoM victim is to do tactical retreat to him and shield him of other damage. This is obvious.)

[Joy Divison]

The game is ridiculously easy even when the enemy has these "cheap" attacks.



If indomitable made a warrior immune to overwhelm, it would be like getting "god mode" through the console.

[Rawgrim]

The Revival spell usually helps with people being overwhelmed and "killed".

[Elsariel]

Rawgrim wrote...

The Revival spell usually helps with people being overwhelmed and "killed".

This.  Overwhelm is annoying, but it's nothing that can't be handled with revival.  It's certianly not something that ruins the game for me.

[ErichHartmann]

Overwhelm is only unfair to those who don't properly manage their characters.

[moilami]

simfamSP wrote...

One skill shouldn't kill a game for you. I got annoyed in Awakening but hell, my 'War Cry' sorted that **** out

Lol Awakening was even more easy than Origins. I at first became annoyed it was so easy and chose to pass it. Played it anyway because had to study Anders and Justice. The only time I got annoyed after that was when I lost all my equipment when being inprisoned by The Architect and never got them back, thus wasting time I spent in gathering the gear and enchanting it., and had to play with crap gear the rest of the Awakening and Golems of Amgorrath whatever.


Edit: I by the way liked the story in Awakening much more than in Origins. Was well worth to play! 

Modifié par moilami, 18 février 2011 - 03:53 .

[fluxcage]

The first timed I experienced overwhelm was in the ruins on the werewolf quest. I was alone scouting several rooms ahead with my two-handed warrior (yeah, dumb). Out of nowhere this Thing is on top of me and I hear my bones crunching. My screams (both real and virtual) went unheard.

Awesome. One of the best moments in the game. Right up there with the chills seeing the Archdemon for the first time.

I reloaded and went back with my whole party.

To keep this DA2 related, I am disappointed to hear that the DAO version of overwhelm is gone.

[moilami]

fluxcage wrote...

The first timed I experienced overwhelm was in the ruins on the werewolf quest. I was alone scouting several rooms ahead with my two-handed warrior (yeah, dumb). Out of nowhere this Thing is on top of me and I hear my bones crunching. My screams (both real and virtual) went unheard.
Awesome. One of the best moments in the game. Right up there with the chills seeing the Archdemon for the first time.
I reloaded and went back with my whole party.
To keep this DA2 related, I am disappointed to hear that the DAO version of overwhelm is gone.

*shrugs* 

Sucks.

(Thanks for good memories of overwhelm. Bot when got it and done it with the dog.)

[Cuthlan]

If nothing else, Overwhelm should have a physical resistance check with the difficulty set by the type/level of creature using it. It does not make sense for a weak, lower-level creature to be able to topple a high level fighter with very high physical resistance.