178 réponses à ce sujet

[moilami]

Cuthlan wrote...

If nothing else, Overwhelm should have a physical resistance check with the difficulty set by the type/level of creature using it. It does not make sense for a weak, lower-level creature to be able to topple a high level fighter with very high physical resistance.

That would make sense.

[lazuli]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Overwhelm? No, if there's an ability/spell I wish my enemy didn't have in DA:O, it's Curse of Mortality. Anything else is easily countered, so long as you're paying attention.

It's annoying that the only counters for Curse of Mortality force you to abandon all of the other magical buffs on your character as well.  Off topic, but I hope we have more precise control over status effects in DA2.

[Addai]

Reaverwind wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

IIRC if you have enough armor/defense you can eat an overwhelm and not die, too, it's just a bit annoying. And get your phys resist up.

Not true - I watched my tank die from werewolf overwhelms in Awakening - over 500 health gone in seconds.

Your tank didn't have Shield Wall or Indomitable?

As has been pointed out exhaustively by now, managing Overwhelm is like any other special attack in the game- use tactics and party setup to counter it and it shouldn't be a problem.  I always keep people close together when fighting enemies that have it, so we can stagger the stuns and help a brother out when needed.  Turn on Indomitable, Shield Wall, or Legion Scout specialties to resist.  And if you have a ranger or Dog in your party, you can experience the joys of Overwhelm as well as the trials. 

[Addai]

Cuthlan wrote...

The thing I hated about Overwhelm was that it wasn't stopped by Indomitable, which was supposed to stop knockdowns.

Yes it is?  My arcane warrior with 2H talents always runs Indomitable and she resists Overwhelm.

Modifié par Addai67, 18 février 2011 - 06:11 .

[Dayshadow]

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

All I ever had to do was keep up lifeward and regenerate on Alistair and constantly throw in spot heals/group heals...and yes the attack can be interrupted and no she doesn't really use it that often...and if you really had to you could range that fight fairly easily since she doesn't move...

Dude, I know we all have different experiences and maybe yours was different than mine.  But don't tell me how often she does it to me.  She does it THAT often to me. Maybe not for you, but for me it is LITERALLY her default attack vs normal humanoids. And she resists just about everything, including stone fist, shield bash, etc. type attacks. Healing is ineffective when ALL SHE DOES IS "OVERWHELM". Regular heal isn't enough and she does it so often that lifeward and other none 5 sec recast spells aren't viable.

She doesn't move? Yeah she does. Are playing some watered down console version on easy? Also, you may be fighting her at a higher level. I think I was somewhere around lvl 14.

Oh, and also she won't overwhelm people behind her so if you were dpsing with Alistair you probably should have moved him there despite the leg kicks to the face,,,

Yeah, my warden was back there getting leg kicked, tail swiped, followed by an immediate leg kick. All in rapid succession.  But he'd last longer than poor Alistair who didn't have the time to get behind due to the instant "overwhlem" once he was revived. Didn't matter. I didn't NEED Alistair, I had Shale. But it was still cheap.

[lazuli]

Addai67 wrote...

Cuthlan wrote...

The thing I hated about Overwhelm was that it wasn't stopped by Indomitable, which was supposed to stop knockdowns.

Yes it is?  My arcane warrior with 2H talents always runs Indomitable and she resists Overwhelm.

Perhaps your mods are affecting it.

[Sheylan]

I found the Curse of Mortality/Crushing Prison combo that Emissaries do FAR more irritating the first couple times I ran into it on Nightmare.



Way harder to counter and even more deadly.

[Dayshadow]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Overwhelm? No, if there's an ability/spell I wish my enemy didn't have in DA:O, it's Curse of Mortality. Anything else is easily countered, so long as you're paying attention.

That is a very annoying spell. Made even more annoying by the fact that if you use it against the computer it barely does anything at all. 

The problem is that characters react too slow to counteract overwhlem. If it occurs while they are in the middle of an attack they keep doing whatever they were doing before, then they come over and hopefully they won't do the position shuffle. And hopefully, if everything goes as plan the knock the thing off... but then it's buddy jumps in to finish the job. I don't know about you, but I don't have an unlimited amount of knock downs for when the computer decides that soandso is going down and you're not going to stop it.

[Dayshadow]

moilami wrote...

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Overwhelm? No, if there's an ability/spell I wish my enemy didn't have in DA:O, it's Curse of Mortality. Anything else is easily countered, so long as you're paying attention.

That is very nasty spell. But it doesn't matter much since computer can't use it well and fails so big times in all co-ordination.

(Good counter to CoM victim is to do tactical retreat to him and shield him of other damage. This is obvious.)

I do force field to counter act it. But it lasts so long and force field on a companion has such a short duration.

[Cuthlan]

Addai67 wrote...

Cuthlan wrote...

The thing I hated about Overwhelm was that it wasn't stopped by Indomitable, which was supposed to stop knockdowns.

Yes it is?  My arcane warrior with 2H talents always runs Indomitable and she resists Overwhelm.

...In the normal, unmodded game, Indomitable does not stop Overwhelm.

[Addai]

Cuthlan wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Cuthlan wrote...

The thing I hated about Overwhelm was that it wasn't stopped by Indomitable, which was supposed to stop knockdowns.

Yes it is?  My arcane warrior with 2H talents always runs Indomitable and she resists Overwhelm.

...In the normal, unmodded game, Indomitable does not stop Overwhelm.

That's strange.  The mod doesn't change the talents, it just makes them available to mages.  Oh well... lucky for my AW. 

A freeze can stop Overwhelm, too.  Winter's Grasp might, and if desperate I'll cast Cone of Cold.  You'll freeze the person being mauled but it will stop the Overwhelm.

[bloodreaperfx]

Shale is immune to Overwhelm, so you can use her as a tank in certain encounters (if you have her, that is).

[Addai]

Dayshadow wrote...
The problem is that characters react too slow to counteract overwhlem. If it occurs while they are in the middle of an attack they keep doing whatever they were doing before, then they come over and hopefully they won't do the position shuffle. And hopefully, if everything goes as plan the knock the thing off... but then it's buddy jumps in to finish the job. I don't know about you, but I don't have an unlimited amount of knock downs for when the computer decides that soandso is going down and you're not going to stop it.

Keep your party close together.

I don't see why people are complaining about this.  Stuff happens in combat, and if enemies didn't have special attacks then it would be so nerfy and boring.  If you run out of tricks in your bag and can't keep the person healed, oh well- you have to fight on with what you've got or reload.  I don't even like combat that much but if there were no challenges it would be incredibly dull.  I fondly reminisce about the time that the two ogres in Fort Drakon were slamming my DW warrior PC and Alistair at the same time.  Both died and Morrigan saved the day, finishing the fight alone. 

[sonsonthebia07]

Dayshadow wrote...

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

All I ever had to do was keep up lifeward and regenerate on Alistair and constantly throw in spot heals/group heals...and yes the attack can be interrupted and no she doesn't really use it that often...and if you really had to you could range that fight fairly easily since she doesn't move...

Dude, I know we all have different experiences and maybe yours was different than mine.  But don't tell me how often she does it to me.  She does it THAT often to me. Maybe not for you, but for me it is LITERALLY her default attack vs normal humanoids. And she resists just about everything, including stone fist, shield bash, etc. type attacks. Healing is ineffective when ALL SHE DOES IS "OVERWHELM". Regular heal isn't enough and she does it so often that lifeward and other none 5 sec recast spells aren't viable.

She doesn't move? Yeah she does. Are playing some watered down console version on easy? Also, you may be fighting her at a higher level. I think I was somewhere around lvl 14.

Oh, and also she won't overwhelm people behind her so if you were dpsing with Alistair you probably should have moved him there despite the leg kicks to the face,,,

Yeah, my warden was back there getting leg kicked, tail swiped, followed by an immediate leg kick. All in rapid succession.  But he'd last longer than poor Alistair who didn't have the time to get behind due to the instant "overwhlem" once he was revived. Didn't matter. I didn't NEED Alistair, I had Shale. But it was still cheap.

My experience was ~level 10-15 range on Nightmare on Xbox360. I've done it multiple times. I've never noticed Flemeth ever moving from that spot on the hill. She tosses and turns around, but she never ever flies up and changes position like the high dragon during the Sacred Ashes quest or the Archdemon. She probably used Overwhelm (face chomp, w/e you want to call it) about 5 times or so before I killed her. She was too busy swiveling and leg kicking with me that she honestly didn't use it much.

I may have had better armor than you though. I honestly don't remember what gear I had then. 

[Arthur Cousland]

samuelkaine wrote...

Actually I think it's great. One of my best moments in the game was walking through Blackmarsh. My human noble, Ohgren, Anders and Sigrun. Two elite shadow wolves decloak behind us, leap on Anders and Sigrun and slaughter them, then come at us. Incredibly atmospheric, and actually got the blood pumping as a battle.

Those shadow wolves are on steroids.  Normally my party members can survive a grab/overwhelm, but those werewolves in the Blackmarsh kill anyone other than my tank.  Eventually, I had to put everyone on hold, have Nathaniel+Anders stand far behind Oghren, and then had my rogue warden walk forward in stealth mode to trigger the werewolves, who then went after Oghren instead.  Since I have to reload if someone falls in battle, I was willing to try everything.

[bzombo]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

IIRC if you have enough armor/defense you can eat an overwhelm and not die, too, it's just a bit annoying. And get your phys resist up.

It's nowhere *near* as cheap as crushing prison or curse of mortality--you can still heal them or knock them out of it somehow.

crushing prison and curse of mortality can be disspelled if you have someone with templar abilities (alistair) in your party.

[Addai]

Arthur Cousland wrote...

samuelkaine wrote...

Actually I think it's great. One of my best moments in the game was walking through Blackmarsh. My human noble, Ohgren, Anders and Sigrun. Two elite shadow wolves decloak behind us, leap on Anders and Sigrun and slaughter them, then come at us. Incredibly atmospheric, and actually got the blood pumping as a battle.

Those shadow wolves are on steroids.  Normally my party members can survive a grab/overwhelm, but those werewolves in the Blackmarsh kill anyone other than my tank.  Eventually, I had to put everyone on hold, have Nathaniel+Anders stand far behind Oghren, and then had my rogue warden walk forward in stealth mode to trigger the werewolves, who then went after Oghren instead.  Since I have to reload if someone falls in battle, I was willing to try everything.

Neither your PC or Nate had Legion Scout?  I  that spec.

[Arthur Cousland]

[quote]Addai67 wrote...

[.[/quote]
Neither your PC or Nate had Legion Scout?  I  that spec.[/quote]

It wasn't usually my pc that got hit, but whoever was trailing behind, and Nathaniel/Anders always seemed to get hit for some reason, rather than the meaty tank, and no, Nate didn't have Legionnare Scout.  My pc did, as well as Sigrun and I wanted balance among my companions.  Nate was a bard/ranger/shadow, while Sigrun was a Legionnare Scout/Assassin/Duelist.  My pc probably also had stealth on, so he was never hit with it.

Those werewolves should have made more appearances during Awakening, as they certainly made things interesting.  Their version of overwhelm was indeed something to be feared, even by a level 30-35 party, where everyone probably had at least 400-500+ health.

[Addai]

If you set Anders to have a Repulsion Field going, sometimes this would keep the werewolves or childers stunned/ knocked down enough to limit the Overwhelms. I would try to maneuver Nate to stick close to Anders (or mage PC) to help him with aggro. Dude gets a lot of it, since he's so awesomely deadly with that bow of his. Will be interesting to compare him to Sebastian.

[Chuvvy]

I hate it when it happens three times in a row. That ****in room with the Shadow Werewolves man.

[Addai]

bzombo wrote...
crushing prison and curse of mortality can be disspelled if you have someone with templar abilities (alistair) in your party.

Or a mage using Dispel.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Dispel only removes enemy magic so it won't knock out your buffs?  Don't quote me on that, I'll test it if no one knows for sure.

[Sylvius the Mad]

lordlokai wrote...

at least in D&D are saves or spells that can grant reistsances

The original AD&D overbearing rules weren't resistable.  I liked those rules.  I was annoyed when overbearing was removed from D&D.

[Braag]

Pretty much every party member has some skill to stun/knockback the enemy. So it's easy to help a buddy in a situation like that.

[Nashiktal]

Out of everything in DA:O... That one ability is the only thing that ever pissed me off. Die from an Ogre? Sure I mess up lets try again. Die from a boss? Eh lets go. Thirty overwhelms from a squad of spiders? FUUUUUUUUUUUUU!



I hated spiders in DA:O. It was almost guaranteed that overwhelm would happen. Hell I hated it even when none of my characters died from it. Especially when my mighty level 30ish tank using all sorts of defensive abilities and wearing some pretty heavy armors gets knocked over like a child...