188 réponses à ce sujet

[CaptainZaysh]

That would be retarded.



If TIM were indoctrinated, why would he orchestrate the extinction of the Collectors, the derailing of Harbinger's plan, and the destruction of the Human Reaper?

[didymos1120]

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

So I read the comic book but can't see where it says the artifact was Reaper.

Uh, since no one knows about the Reapers yet, given that it's decades before ME1, nobody's gonna say "Hey, look: Reaper tech!"  It turned turians into husks. Do the math.

[Ahriman]

Reapers ordered TIM to resurrect Shepard so Harby could have fun with Shepard. Riiight.

[Da_Lion_Man]

Sounds like quite the conspiracy.

[Zing Freelancer]

jma2286 wrote...
Not so fast

Havent we seen human husks in first Mass Effect?
Havent we seen Cerberus personal onboard derelic Reaper loose their minds and become husks?

Perhaps humans are the only ones who if stopped being exposed to indocrination regain their senses, meanwhile other sapient creatures dont.

By the way, I think Heretic Geth served Reapers out of their own free will.

[DaBigDragon]

I don't think he's necessarily indoctrinated, but it's clear from Issue #2 that he was affected by exposure to that artifact. It seems to have given him knowledge that he previously did not have (Asari native language) and if he's still affected by it during Shepard's time, then what other knowledge did that thing imbue him with?

[AkiKishi]

Wizz wrote...

Reapers ordered TIM to resurrect Shepard so Harby could have fun with Shepard. Riiight.

We don't really know what they put into Shepard.. Could be that he is the new Reaper beacon for all we know. We do know that the attack on the station was not part of the plan and Shepard was woken up early.

The whole "suicide" mission could be just one massive distraction while the Reaper fleet is moving into place from the other side.

Nothing destroyed could be considered essential. Even the T-800 is easily replaced with an attack on Earth.

[Ahriman]

BobSmith101 wrote...
We don't really know what they put into Shepard.. Could be that he is the new Reaper beacon for all we know. We do know that the attack on the station was not part of the plan and Shepard was woken up early.

Galaxy is easy enough to find even without any beacons, you know.

The whole "suicide" mission could be just one massive distraction while the Reaper fleet is moving into place from the other side.

Resurrect Shepard and then try distract him/her from Reapers. Don't you think that there might be more simple way?

[wolfsite]

Or we can just wait for the rest of the story is released to see what happens rather than jumping to conclusion and throwing insults at anyone who has a theory that is different from there own.   Of course , you know, I'm just saying

Modifié par wolfsite, 18 février 2011 - 03:53 .

[AkiKishi]

Wizz wrote...

Resurrect Shepard and then try distract him/her from Reapers. Don't you think that there might be more simple way?

We have to take into account that Shepard woke up early. That may have required doing things that way. TIM had to keep Shepard occupied and give him a mission that was important enough he would not just turn around and leave.

TIM being partially indoctrinated might explain some of the stupid stuff he does.

Wizz wrote...
Galaxy is easy enough to find even without any beacons, you know.

Maybe that is not the case from dark space.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 18 février 2011 - 04:03 .

[Ahriman]

BobSmith101 wrote...
We have to take into account that Shepard woke up early. That may have required doing things that way. TIM had to keep Shepard occupied and give him a mission that was important enough he would not just turn around and leave.

I mean if you dont resurrect heroes obsessed by saving of the Galaxy you dont need to distract them somehow.

Maybe that is not the case from dark space.

Galaxy is that shining disk just right there.
-sigh-
Nevermind.

Modifié par Wizz, 18 février 2011 - 04:05 .

[AkiKishi]

Wizz wrote...

I mean if you dont resurrect heroes obsessed by saving of the Galaxy you dont need to distract them somehow.
-sigh-
Nevermind.

Nor would you resurect a Paragon Shepard and then expect him to dance to your tune. TIMs clearly not in his right mind for whatever reason.

[Asheer_Khan]

timmy boy as agent of the Reapers... most hilarious "reward" for all ME renegades.

But truth to be told it's still to early to say if he is or not indoctrinated... and i doubt that we will learn truth in that matter before ME 3 since this could be one of the core plots of the incoming game.

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 18 février 2011 - 04:28 .

[azarhal]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Nor would you resurect a Paragon Shepard and then expect him to dance to your tune. TIMs clearly not in his right mind for whatever reason.

or TIM's ego is just so big that he believe he can make Shepard dance to his tune...

[DarkSeraphym]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Wizz wrote...

I mean if you dont resurrect heroes obsessed by saving of the Galaxy you dont need to distract them somehow.
-sigh-
Nevermind.

Nor would you resurect a Paragon Shepard and then expect him to dance to your tune. TIMs clearly not in his right mind for whatever reason.

What are Paragon Shepard's alternatives? Go to the Council or the Alliance and plead with them to deal with a problem that is ongoing in the Terminus Systems? Go the Council or the Alliance and try to convince them for the second time that the Reapers are a threat?

Even if Paragon Shepard isn't "dancing to the Illusive Man's tune", throughout most of Mass Effect 2 they both shared common goals in wanting to find out what the Collectors were  up to and putting a stop to it. Bringing back any kind of Shepard, Renegade or Paragon, makes perfect sense to me and would make perfect sense to the Illusive Man. I don't really see how this proves that the Illusive Man is clearly not in his right mind when, if anything, this move on the Illusive Man's part was brilliant. Either Shepard stops the Collectors, agents of the Reapers, and TIM wins or Shepard not only stops the Collectors but hands their base over to Cerberus, which is also a winning scenario. Shepard isn't in any position in ME2 to turn down help, regardless of who was offering it.

Unless Shepard is a moron, but BioWare didn't design either Paragon or Renegade Shepard that way.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 18 février 2011 - 04:38 .

[didymos1120]

LostScout wrote...

TIM's goal in ME2 wasn't to stop the collectors. It was to get control of the collector base.

His goal definitely was to stop them.  It's no good advancing humanity if humanity just goes and gets abducted.  And he couldn't have had the Collector base in mind all along because no one even knew it existed until Shep went through the Omega-4 relay.  I agree that he was planning to get a hold of whatever he could if at all possible, but that doesn't mean that was his primary goal, nor does it mean he knew what Shep would find.

[DarkSeraphym]

LostScout wrote...

TIM's stated goal was to stop the collectors. But if he thinks the advancement of humanity is best served by becoming Reapers then guess what? Slushee time.

Then why bother attacking the Collectors at all? The Reapers were already building a Human-Reaper. I have a gut feeling that the Illusive Man knew a lot more than he originally led on throughout the game about the intents of the Collectors, and probably the existence of that base too, but if those were his interests then why bother attacking the Collectors at all?

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 18 février 2011 - 04:48 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

And what would that accomplish? A bunch of husks.

[AkiKishi]

DarkSeraphym wrote...
Then why bother attacking the Collectors at all? The Reapers were already building a Human-Reaper. I have a gut feeling that the Illusive Man knew a lot more than he originally led on throughout the game about the intents of the Collectors, and probably the existence of that base too, but if those were his interests then why bother attacking the Collectors at all?

Because for whatever reason Shepard is part of the bigger picture and he needed him onside. Heres an interesting one.

He sends you blow the base and then only after EDI has been digging around does he come up with the alternative plan. Does that even make the base worth anything? Because you already have the data regardless.

It might speed up the process, but what exactly would be kept on the base anyway ? Reaper building "machines".

[DarkSeraphym]

LostScout wrote...

Maybe the goal isn't building a Reaper?  Maybe it's something more subtle like getting humans to "take control" of the Collector base so they can be indoctrinated?

For what purpose? Indoctrination would mean that humans would be indoctrinated and I could see only two plausible motivations for the Illusive Man wanting that. Either he wants to test the effects of indoctrination, which was something he did in Retribution so that keeps rather redundant, or he wants to somehow aid the Reaper cause, which once again why bother attacking the Collectors at all? Destroying the Human-Reaper and wiping out a subservient race ran genetic experiments for the Reapers just to get a few humans indoctrinated seems kind of silly. I don't see how the Reapers could benefit from that all.

[DarkSeraphym]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Because for whatever reason Shepard is part of the bigger picture and he needed him onside. Heres an interesting one.

He sends you blow the base and then only after EDI has been digging around does he come up with the alternative plan. Does that even make the base worth anything? Because you already have the data regardless.

It might speed up the process, but what exactly would be kept on the base anyway ? Reaper building "machines".

Perhaps I missed something in the scene, but the Illusive Man mentions that he saw the schematics of the base from EDI and realized that the radiation blast could kill all of the Collectors but leave the machinery intact. Maybe my understanding of engineering is a little off, but I don't see how having the schematics for a facility that builds chemical weapons is going to help me understand what the chemical weapons do or how they work in the sameway that I don't see how having the schematics of the base are going to help the Illusive Man figure out how Reapers function. With time and the proper resources, you might be able to eventually figure out how the different units within the facility came together to build the Reaper, but time is a resource, as you've pointed out, that we are not entirely certain we have much of.

Of course, Reaper building machines are probably all that is on that base anyway, as you've pointed out. However, knowing how to build the Reapers allows you to figure out their construction, their capabilities, their limitations, and ultimately their weaknesses.

I still don't see how Shepard could be part of a bigger picture that somehow helps the Reaper cause that wouldn't have been better had the Illusive Man just not gotten involved at all. The Collectors would have gotten control of Shepard's body, for whatever they wanted it for, and the Reapers would have kept building their Human-Reaper. I don't see how, unless the Reapers have different factions, the events of ME2 are beneficial to the Reapers.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 18 février 2011 - 05:09 .