188 réponses à ce sujet

[IntrepidProdigy]

Didn't read the entire thread, but I read the OP. I think it would be interesting and make so much sense if some humans were immune to the Reapers' influence/indoctrination, seeing as TIM doesn't seem to be indoctrinated by any sense of the word. It would also explain why he's so adamant on keeping the collector base to strengthen humanity as a whole, without thinking of the consequences. It also explains why Shepard never seems to get indoctrinated whenever he comes into close contact with reaper tech (or it could just be poor thinking on the developer's part). I've really got to start looking into the books now that you brought this up.

[DarkSeraphym]

BobSmith101 wrote...

silent_key wrote...

Good point.  You've reminded me of the  Darth Vader, "I am your Father!" reveal in Star Wars,  which has absolutely no build up whatsoever, but it keeps you hooked until Return fo the Jedi.

We have numerous canon references to the Illusive man's intentions, even his inner dialogue, none of which involve furthering the reapers agenda.  What many on this board are suggesting, is that TIM works for/is being controlled by the reapers. He stole Shepard from the collectors because, obviously,the reapers were trolling their own mooks.  He then brought Shepard back to life for teh LULZ, and sent him off on a galactic bus route, picking up all the awesome left in the galaxy for a reason only the mechanical cthulhu can comprehend!  In this case, we can consider Occam's razor, because this is all far too complicated, leaves way too many plotholes, and pretty much nullifies any furthered plot in the last two novels, the Redemption comic, and the entire ME2 storyline.

In my original post, I did not compare any other works of fiction or any other plot devices within ME.  In the case of TIM's loyalties, Occam's razor works perfectly.  That doesn't mean that there won't be some interesting twist with the illusive man, but it will not be to the extent that the posters on this thread are speculating, which was what i addressed in my original post.  Simplicity in fiction is a good policy to follow, but that doesn't mean that the author should take the most obvious route.  It just means that it is counterproductive to complicate a plot so much, that you can stick your head through the plot holes. 

If he's anything like Saren he won't even be aware that he is doing anything beyond his own intentions. His inner thoughts would not reveal he is working for the Reapers because more than likely he does not know himself.

His goal of furthering mankind may be exactly what the Reapers want to get better smoothie ingredients.

This isn't really a good character to compare to. Saren was aware that he was helping Sovereign, he willingly admits it to Shepard when he says that it is the only way to guarantee the survival of sentient life in Mass Effect both at Virmire and at the last battle on the Citadel Tower. Whether or not his actions were justified is up for debate, but he knew what he was doing.

Also, I don't see how his goal of furthering mankind is going to help the Reaper cause. The Illusive Man wants to make them more powerful as a race, not come up with technology that will make women have babies in only a third of the time. If anything, the Illusive Man's goal of furthering mankind is a problem for the Reapers. TIM is trying to get access to technology that the Reapers had never intended their prey to have.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 18 février 2011 - 08:20 .

[AkiKishi]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

This isn't really a good character to compare to. Saren was aware that he was helping Sovereign, he willingly admits it to Shepard when he says that it is the only way to guarantee the survival of sentient life in Mass Effect both at Virmire and at the last battle on the Citadel Tower. Whether or not his actions were justified is up for debate, but he knew what he was doing.

Also, I don't see how his goal of furthering mankind is going to help the Reaper cause. The Illusive Man wants to make them more powerful as a race, not come up with technology that will make women have babies in only a third of the time. If anything, the Illusive Man's goal of furthering mankind is a problem for the Reapers. TIM is trying to get access to technology that the Reapers had never intended their prey to have.

Saren never saw himself as a puppet, which he was. TIMs case is different he's more like a sleeper agent. What he thinks he's doing for humanity he's doing because of Reapers whispering in his brain.

Stronger humans - stronger Reapers especaily if the biotic connection proves true. Unless it's technology they want him to have. Look what happened with the Derelict Reaper. Bunch of husks, then you get sent on a mission which effectively destroys it and makes nothing salvagable. That's a good Reaper goal.

Same with the collectors and base, it's all disposible junk. Keep the base you likely get a couple more science teams turned into husks. Destroy it, no big deal aside from the Data it's just construction machines.

[RiouHotaru]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Oh my God, seriously no, twist the plot any further and it will be f*cking braided.

What pisses me off even more is that Saren is using his brother's bodyguards...which are HUSKS.
Which possibly means Saren knew all this **** right from the very beginning.

Did Walters even read Revelation?!

[DarkSeraphym]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Saren never saw himself as a puppet, which he was. TIMs case is different he's more like a sleeper agent. What he thinks he's doing for humanity he's doing because of Reapers whispering in his brain.

Stronger humans - stronger Reapers especaily if the biotic connection proves true. Unless it's technology they want him to have. Look what happened with the Derelict Reaper. Bunch of husks, then you get sent on a mission which effectively destroys it and makes nothing salvagable. That's a good Reaper goal.

Same with the collectors and base, it's all disposible junk. Keep the base you likely get a couple more science teams turned into husks. Destroy it, no big deal aside from the Data it's just construction machines.

Regardless of whether or not Saren saw himself as a puppet is irrelevant. What is relevant is that Saren himself says that it would be better to work for the Reapers and hope that he could prove we were loyal servants, or something to that effect, than to resist. In my book, that is more than enough to prove that he had some conciousness of what he was doing, especially when you can talk him into shooting himself.

Stronger humans may not have an impact upon stronger Reapers whatsoever. Not enough was discussed in Mass Effect to suggest this. Once again, the Illusive Man wants to make humanity a stronger political, economic, and military power. Few, if any, of these aspects will have much change at all upon the structure of man's DNA, which from what I gathered was the important thing to making a Reaper. The Illusive Man was certainly performing tests to alter some men genetically different for different effects, but for all we know this could totally kill their ability to be used as a Reaper in the first place. Genetics is an extremely touchy subject.

The Base is disposable? I don't know about you, but if my stuff is junk and "disposable" then I'm not going to waste my time putting it in the center of a galaxy next to a supermassive black hole where only a specific access code will let you get near it. Likewise, I'm not going to surround it with a bunch of drones or a bunch of defenses on the inside to protect what I see as expendable junk. The Reapers really went out of their way to provide what was essentially an impenetrable defense to something they saw as "junk".

Likewise, where are you getting this idea that the base is covered with devices that would indoctrinate subjects who were there? I don't remember hearing about it when I was in the base, in fact the only thing I heard about in the base that could tie into indoctrination was that Human-Reaper larva and EDI said because of how early it was in development, she could not accurately approximate the Human-Reapers full potential. The fact that we didn't see anything that could indoctrinate people in the base is not evidence that such technology does not exist there, but nothing was every mentioned up to that point that such technology was in there to begin with. For the sake of the debate, lets stick with what we do know and not dwell on what-ifs.

What I gathered from the Collector Base is that given it's location and the number of defenses that were put around it, the Reapers never expected anyone to get that close to it. Why load it up with indoctrination devices if they think such a possibility would never happen, especially when they hadn't even taken the time to load the place up with turrets to protect the base in the event that someone boarded? The Reapers don't exactly have a good track record at this point in time for considering all of the possibilities of what could happen if they are wrong. If they had been this good at it, they would have left two vanguards behind instead of just one.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 18 février 2011 - 09:02 .

[nevar00]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

I don't know if you read Retribution, but the whole point was to implant reaper technology in a human.  I'm sure the Reapers are already intrigued by Shepard; prehaps they meant to have him be the subject originally instead of Grayson?  When Shephard began to wake up they could have used Wilson to transfer Shephard into the hands of the Collectors and eliminate him to make sure that anyone who tried to find out what happened would hit a dead end.  And remember, Harbinger is always going on about "PRESERVE SHEPARD'S BODY IF POSSIBLE"...

Again, once they saw that Shephard had gotten away... I dunno, maybe they formed a new plan to have Shephard drop himself and an elite team (that could have proved troublesome later) right into the hands of the Reaper's servants and then take them all out at once, and once again be in control of Shephard.  It was a Suicide Mission: as someone in here suggested, perhaps they were never supposed to succeed?  

As I said I'm not convinced myself, but if anyone could make sense of this I would certainly expect Bioware capable of doing so.  And if they really wanted to pull a curve ball out of their asses, I think this could certainly be explainable... either way, I definitely want to go read those comics now.

Yes, I have read Retribution. Only problem with it is that the Reapers had originally intended Shepard to not be alive period. That is why they had the Collectors attack Normandy SR1 and then had the Collector's arrange a deal with the Shadow Broker in the Redemption comics to find his body. Harbinger saying "preserve Shepard's body if possible" is only further evidence of this. Shepard being alive and messing up their plans was never part of their original plan. If the Reapers had it their way, Shepard would still be dead and the Collectors would have been free to do whatever they pleased with his body after they got it from the Shadow Broker. I'm not really sure what good indoctrination experiments would have done for the Reapers if Shepard were dead.

Good point: I forgot about that.  That pretty much kills that theory... although I still think if Bioware wanted it to be, they would find a good way to explain it.

[silent_key]

BobSmith101 wrote...

DarkSeraphym wrote...

This isn't really a good character to compare to. Saren was aware that he was helping Sovereign, he willingly admits it to Shepard when he says that it is the only way to guarantee the survival of sentient life in Mass Effect both at Virmire and at the last battle on the Citadel Tower. Whether or not his actions were justified is up for debate, but he knew what he was doing.

Also, I don't see how his goal of furthering mankind is going to help the Reaper cause. The Illusive Man wants to make them more powerful as a race, not come up with technology that will make women have babies in only a third of the time. If anything, the Illusive Man's goal of furthering mankind is a problem for the Reapers. TIM is trying to get access to technology that the Reapers had never intended their prey to have.

Saren never saw himself as a puppet, which he was. TIMs case is different he's more like a sleeper agent. What he thinks he's doing for humanity he's doing because of Reapers whispering in his brain.

Stronger humans - stronger Reapers especaily if the biotic connection proves true. Unless it's technology they want him to have. Look what happened with the Derelict Reaper. Bunch of husks, then you get sent on a mission which effectively destroys it and makes nothing salvagable. That's a good Reaper goal.

Same with the collectors and base, it's all disposible junk. Keep the base you likely get a couple more science teams turned into husks. Destroy it, no big deal aside from the Data it's just construction machines.

If the reapers were whispering in TIM's ear, as you describe, why would they allow him to sabotage their arrangement with the shadowbroker to collect Shepards remains? Harbringer himself is controlling the collector who is at the Shadow broker's base, and he is decidedly miffed when Liara shows up and steals the corpse.  As I asked in my previous post, were the other reapers just trolling Harbringer for a laugh?  I think not.  It was never in there plans to have Cerberus collect the body.

You also site the Collector base.  What's the point in destroying, if not all, definitely most of your current ground forces by sending in the A team to clean house?  It's backwards logic to argue that the reapers WANTED this to happen, or that they didn't care that it happened.  You also cannot argue that the reapers were finished using them.  Before leaving them to their fate, Harbringer tells the collectors, "you have failed.  We will find another way," implying that s**t wasn't supposed to go down like this.  Not to mention the human reaper wasn't even completed.  So why would they allow all of this to happen, if they could simply 'activate' TIM and stop the entire process?  The simple answer is because they can't....he's not under their control.

[AkiKishi]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

1.Regardless of whether or not Saren saw himself as a puppet is irrelevant. What is relevant is that Saren himself says that it would be better to work for the Reapers and hope that he could prove we were loyal servants, or something to that effect, than to resist. In my book, that is more than enough to prove that he had some conciousness of what he was doing, especially when you can talk him into shooting himself.

2.Stronger humans may not have an impact upon stronger Reapers whatsoever. Not enough was discussed in Mass Effect to suggest this. Once again, the Illusive Man wants to make humanity a stronger political, economic, and military power. Few, if any, of these aspects will have much change at all upon the structure of man's DNA, which from what I gathered was the important thing to making a Reaper. The Illusive Man was certainly performing tests to alter some men genetically different for different effects, but for all we know this could totally kill their ability to be used as a Reaper in the first place. Genetics is an extremely touchy subject.

3.The Base is disposable? I don't know about you, but if my stuff is junk and "disposable" then I'm not going to waste my time putting it in the center of a galaxy next to a supermassive black hole where only a specific access code will let you get near it. Likewise, I'm not going to surround it with a bunch of drones or a bunch of defenses on the inside to protect what I see as expendable junk. The Reapers really went out of their way to provide what was essentially an impenetrable defense to something they saw as "junk".

4.Likewise, where are you getting this idea that the base is covered with devices that would indoctrinate subjects who were there? I don't remember hearing about it when I was in the base, in fact the only thing I heard about in the base that could tie into indoctrination was that Human-Reaper larva and EDI said because of how early it was in development, she could not accurately approximate the Human-Reapers full potential. The fact that we didn't see anything that could indoctrinate people in the base is not evidence that such technology does not exist there, but nothing was every mentioned up to that point that such technology was in there to begin with. For the sake of the debate, lets stick with what we do know and not dwell on what-ifs.

5.What I gathered from the Collector Base is that given it's location and the number of defenses that were put around it, the Reapers never expected anyone to get that close to it. Why load it up with indoctrination devices if they think such a possibility would never happen, especially when they hadn't even taken the time to load the place up with turrets to protect the base in the event that someone boarded? The Reapers don't exactly have a good track record at this point in time for considering all of the possibilities of what could happen if they are wrong. If they had been this good at it, they would have left two vanguards behind instead of just one.

1.Like I said Saren was aware he was working for the Reapers TIM is not.

2.Exactly so it's open to speculation. However some experiemnts have nothing to do with improving humanity on anything but a personal level and TIMs into a lot of those.

3.If you are planning on knocking on the door yourself you really don't need a proxy like the collectors to do it. Especally if you can use them as a diversion. Or a smokescreen while your agent downloads any useful data.

4.How many Reaper devices have we come across in ME1/2 ? How many of those ended up indocrinating people in some way ? If the T-800 has an indoctrination field, then the equipment must be in the base anyway.

5.Well that was true upto the point where it was no longer useful.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 18 février 2011 - 09:18 .

[DarkSeraphym]

Like I said Saren was aware he was working for the Reapers TIM is not.

Exactly so it's open to speculation. However some experiemnts have nothing to do with improving humanity on anything but a personal level and TIMs into a lot of those.

If you are planning on knocking on the door yourself you really don't need a proxy like the collectors to do it. Especally if you can use them as a diversion. Or a smokescreen while your agent downloads any useful data.

How many Reaper devices have we come across in ME1/2 ? How many of those ended up indocrinating people in some way ? If the T-800 has an indoctrination field, then the equipment must be in the base anyway.

Well that was true upto the point where it was no longer useful.

1. Probably no point in discussing this further. Anything beyond this means you and I will be stuck speculating.

2. I can accept speculation on the part of stronger humans might mean stronger Reapers. I just wanted to point out that for a logical argument, you greatly increased your burden of proof by saying "Stronger humans equals stronger Reapers" and your conclusion did not follow from your argument.

3. I wouldn't go as far as to say that the Reapers didn't need the Collectors. They obviously wanted that Human-Reaper pretty badly. I don't really like to speculate, but it's possible they intended this new Reaper to be the next vanguard. Regardless, what point is there to a distraction when a year passes and you still haven't done anything?

4. As for Reaper devices indoctrinating people, this is true however Reaper technology does not always end up indoctrinating people. As far as I know, the turians that researched the Thannix Cannon from Sovereign's remains did not get indoctrinated. Some Reaper tech appears to be able to indoctrinate organics, some does not. This likely means that not all Reaper technology is capable of indoctrinating organics, only some. Besides, it is a logical fallacy to think that simply because all swans you have seen are white means that all swans must be white.

5. As far as I could tell from ME2, the only point in which the Collector Base was no longer useful was when Shepard blew it up or wiped out all organic life on it. Otherwise, why keep fighting if you didn't care about it? It's extremely unorthodox for battle tactics to waste resources and time protecting something that you don't care about, unless you intend to use it as a distraction. However, once again, if that was their plan why wait a year?

(I borrowed your numbering system, I hope you won't mind. Makes this a lot easier to read)

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 18 février 2011 - 09:31 .

[TuringPoint]

jma2286 wrote...



Indoctrination appears to be only possible in close vicinity of a Reaper. This means that Sovereign or any other Reaper would have to have been "in person" or close enough to use his influence to dominate someone's mind. Benezia was on board. Sovereign came to the Geth and subdued the Heretics.

Indoctrination also works out of mysterious artifacts found by people digging for technology and history.  This occurs several times in ME1 missions and a couple times in ME2.

I find it interesting, anyway.  I wonder if TIM makes the connection between the Reapers and that artifact.  It seems impossible not to.  

I think it's possible that artifact doesn't so much indoctrinate as transform into husk-ish beings.  TIM got "transformed" partially?  When he grabbed his friend  who had approached the artifact.

For me it makes me wonder if, in TIM's case, the Reapers are subtly influencing his decision making process.  Or perhaps his exposure makes him more inclined to want to use Reaper technology against the Reapers.

[nevar00]

Alocormin wrote...

jma2286 wrote...



Indoctrination appears to be only possible in close vicinity of a Reaper. This means that Sovereign or any other Reaper would have to have been "in person" or close enough to use his influence to dominate someone's mind. Benezia was on board. Sovereign came to the Geth and subdued the Heretics.

Indoctrination also works out of mysterious artifacts found by people digging for technology and history.  This occurs several times in ME1 missions and a couple times in ME2.

I find it interesting, anyway.  I wonder if TIM makes the connection between the Reapers and that artifact.  It seems impossible not to.  

I think it's possible that artifact doesn't so much indoctrinate as transform into husk-ish beings.  TIM got "transformed" partially?  When he grabbed his friend  who had approached the artifact.

For me it makes me wonder if, in TIM's case, the Reapers are subtly influencing his decision making process.  Or perhaps his exposure makes him more inclined to want to use Reaper technology against the Reapers.

That's what I was thinking.  If you've read the books you realize TIM is too arrogant to think he isn't in control of things, and if the Reapers were just slightly planting ideas in his mind I highly doubt he wouldn't think he just came up with them himself.  I could write out each instance in the books/games where it could be seen from an indoctrination POV... except for the whole things with the Collectors and Cerberus and Liara all getting Shepard's body.  If the Reapers were controlling both sides... that was pretty unncessary.  Everything else can be somewhat explained though.

[Volus Warlord]

Erm.. indoctrination degrades neurological function...



If TIM had been indoctrinated, he'd be a babbling idiot with an IQ of 47 by now.

[James2912]

TIM is not indoctrinated.

[Asheer_Khan]

James2912 wrote...

TIM is not indoctrinated.

And Elcors can dance "Swan Lake" .

[silent_key]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

James2912 wrote...

TIM is not indoctrinated.

And Elcors can dance "Swan Lake" .

random elcor standing in the corner:  "pitiful resignation.  Nobody gives us a chance.  Elcor are good dancers.  stifled sob."

Look what you did! I'll have you know that his...er...her dream is to be the first elcor to adapt 'Swan Lake' to the Citadel grand theatre!  *sigh* When will the xenophobia end!!!

......since at least I believe in her dreams,  I will agree with you that yes.... TIM is not indoctrinated and elcor can dance ballet.

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

The Illusive Man tries to save his friend from getting blasted by a creepy artifact and ends up having a horrible vision of the future and a whole bunch of other stuff burned into his brain. Sounds more like he's being set up as the anti-Shepard. Or Shepard 30 years in the future; haunted by what he knows, he's become bitter and jaded.

[Asheer_Khan]

silent_key wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

James2912 wrote...

TIM is not indoctrinated.

And Elcors can dance "Swan Lake" .

random elcor standing in the corner:  "pitiful resignation.  Nobody gives us a chance.  Elcor are good dancers.  stifled sob."

Look what you did! I'll have you know that his...er...her dream is to be the first elcor to adapt 'Swan Lake' to the Citadel grand theatre!  *sigh* When will the xenophobia end!!!

......since at least I believe in her dreams,  I will agree with you that yes.... TIM is not indoctrinated and elcor can dance ballet.

I assure you that my Shep would be first one to buy ticket for such performance.

Maybe Emily Wong should hinted Francis Kit about trying such adaptation since he looked to be an expert in Elcors acting .

[DarkSeraphym]

Gyroscopic_Trout wrote...

The Illusive Man tries to save his friend from getting blasted by a creepy artifact and ends up having a horrible vision of the future and a whole bunch of other stuff burned into his brain. Sounds more like he's being set up as the anti-Shepard. Or Shepard 30 years in the future; haunted by what he knows, he's become bitter and jaded.

This is the most plausible theory I've heard thus far. This theory explains several plot holes, like how the Illusive Man knew certain bits of information that seemed a little too convenient, without opened the door to a whole new set of plot holes that would be introduced from indoctrination.

Only problem with it is that if Shepard got zapped by a Prothean artifact and thus has visions of the Protheans, and the Illusive Man got zapped by a Reaper artifact and thus has visions of the Reapers; then the Illusive Man could very well be one of the most important allies in the fight against the Reapers in the Mass Effect universe. It would likely tick off many anti-Cerberus players. However, that isn't as much a story-related issue and moreso a player's perspective issue so it shouldn't be relevant.

Regardless, your theory makes the most sense and appears the most plausible from what I've read. If nothing else, it's also the most efficient theory. It explains several plot holes from ME2 without doing a total 180 on the Mass Effect fans for ME2 and introducing a whole new set of plot holes that simply don't make any sense.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 19 février 2011 - 05:00 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Shepard is Luke, TIM is Vader, and Harbinger is the Emperor.

It's Vader's destiny to defeat the Emperor, not Luke's

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 février 2011 - 05:09 .

[TuringPoint]

There are different types of indoctrination. If TIM is indoctrinated, it would be comparable to Saren's indoctrination, except without the whole continued relationship with a Reaper part.



If the vision TIM sees influences him, knowing it comes from apparently a Reaper device, maybe it's not quite indoctrination in the typical sense but it would be similar. Whether or not he's indoctrinated is sort of beside the point in that case.

[Zulu_DFA]

Alocormin wrote...

There are different types of indoctrination. If TIM is indoctrinated, it would be comparable to Saren's indoctrination, except without the whole continued relationship with a Reaper part.

If the vision TIM sees influences him, knowing it comes from apparently a Reaper device, maybe it's not quite indoctrination in the typical sense but it would be similar. Whether or not he's indoctrinated is sort of beside the point in that case.

Lol. In other words, TIM is indoctrinated... but not quite actually... But we still can call him that, if we want to. Correct?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 février 2011 - 06:00 .

[DarkSeraphym]

Alocormin wrote...

There are different types of indoctrination. If TIM is indoctrinated, it would be comparable to Saren's indoctrination, except without the whole continued relationship with a Reaper part.

If the vision TIM sees influences him, knowing it comes from apparently a Reaper device, maybe it's not quite indoctrination in the typical sense but it would be similar. Whether or not he's indoctrinated is sort of beside the point in that case.

Perhaps you could elaborate a little further? If a vision that the Illusive Man has of the Reapers influences him, how does that really aid the idea that he is indoctrinated? The point of indoctrination is to make sure that Reaper influence upon a particular individual helps the Reapers. As far as I have been able to see from the series, the Illusive Man has done anything but help the Reapers.

[TuringPoint]

I said it would be comparable to indoctrination if the Reaper is influencing him somehow, not that it is indoctrination.

I also said their are different levels of indoctrination. 

Time will tell if TIM is ultimately going to aid the Reapers.  I'm sure that's not his intention, whether or not the Reaper's have invaded his thoughts, however subtly.  I find it vaguely suspicious how he comments on the "perfection" of the turian husks.  I also find it a little suspicious that he came up with the idea at the last minute of saving the Collector base instead of destroying it.  Not to argue that he is trying to help the Reapers when he does that.  Also suspicious, although quite handy, is how he straddles the line between helping Shepard and helping the Collector's and the Reapers on several occasions.  

ZULU:  Certainty does not an argument make.  Proof makes an argument, and proof is usually ambiguous.

Modifié par Alocormin, 19 février 2011 - 06:12 .

[Zulu_DFA]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

As far as I have been able to see from the series, the Illusive Man has done anything but help the Reapers.

As much as I agree with this, I fully anticipate that BioWare is going to pull some "Human dominance benefits the Reapers" trick in the middle of ME3. At this point all alien-loving paragons will go nuts about how bad and evil TIM's turned out to be. That, of course, totally disregarding the fact that restraining the Human dominance agenda would make little difference, as the Reapers would eventually come in any case. And TIM's goal is to make the Mankind stronger than even the Reapers can handle.

[DTKT]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

DarkSeraphym wrote...

As far as I have been able to see from the series, the Illusive Man has done anything but help the Reapers.

As much as I agree with this, I fully anticipate that BioWare is going to pull some "Human dominance benefits the Reapers" trick in the middle of ME3. At this point all alien-loving paragons will go nuts about how bad and evil TIM's turned out to be. That, of course, totally disregarding the fact that restraining the Human dominance agenda would make little difference, as the Reapers would eventually come in any case. And TIM's goal is to make the Mankind stronger than even the Reapers can handle.

I honestly fail to see how a Human dominance in the Galaxy would be a good thing.